14:54:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:54:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-irc
14:54:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:54:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:54:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:54:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:54:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:54:52 <trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
14:55:01 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV 
14:55:02 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
14:56:53 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim has joined #prov
14:57:26 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov
14:58:21 <pgroth> trackbot, start telcon
14:58:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 
14:58:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:58:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:58:27 <trackbot> Date: 28 June 2012
14:58:29 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:58:29 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:34 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:58:41 <Zakim> +Mike_Wald
14:58:42 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.06.28
14:58:56 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
14:59:02 <pgroth> Scribe: Daniel Garijo
14:59:27 <Luc> zakim, Mike_Wald is me
14:59:27 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
14:59:33 <khalidBelhajjame> khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
14:59:41 <Zakim> +??P9
14:59:41 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
14:59:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Luc, ??P9
14:59:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see khalidBelhajjame, pgroth, CraigTrim, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, ivan, sandro, trackbot, stain
14:59:49 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P9 is me
14:59:50 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
15:00:03 <jun> jun has joined #prov
15:00:04 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:00:27 <Zakim> +??P24
15:00:29 <pgroth> Regrets: Timothy Lebo, Paolo Missier, Simon Miles, Curt Tilmes, Stephan Zednik, Tom De Nies, Graham Klyne
15:00:32 <jun> zakim, ??P24 is me
15:00:36 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:00:39 <Zakim> +jun; got it
15:00:41 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:45 <Zakim> +??P30
15:00:47 <Zakim> +??P28
15:00:54 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, ??P30 is me
15:00:55 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it
15:01:03 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P24 is me
15:01:12 <Zakim> I already had ??P24 as jun, dgarijo
15:01:31 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:01:31 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P28 is me
15:01:33 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:01:38 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:01:46 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:02:37 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:03:33 <Zakim> +??P41
15:03:46 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov
15:04:03 <Zakim> +??P44
15:05:28 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
15:05:33 <dgarijo> yes
15:06:20 <dgarijo> Luc: I wanted to get DM out of the way this weekend, but let's discuss that online
15:06:25 <dgarijo> pgroth: actions
15:06:57 <dgarijo> ... resolution around collections (Done) Ivan took a look around rdf datatypes . Paul still has to do his action.
15:07:08 <dgarijo> ... Daniel has talked about a note about dc
15:07:12 <dgarijo> ... myme types
15:07:21 <dgarijo> ... reviews for paolo
15:07:25 <dgarijo> ... (to be done)
15:07:37 <dgarijo> ... started exit criteria. Will give an update
15:07:54 <dgarijo> ... notion of compliance with w3c. This needs to be smmarized.
15:08:30 <dgarijo> ... still haven't made the ***? available on the prov page
15:08:57 <dgarijo> ... I will marked as done the issues that have been done after the call
15:08:59 <pgroth> q?
15:09:12 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:09:19 <dgarijo> s /marked/mark
15:09:25 <pgroth> Topic: F2F3
15:09:49 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov
15:09:57 <dgarijo> pgroth: recap on the meeting for those who weren't there. It was a good meeting. Had resolutions on most of open issues
15:10:48 <dgarijo> ... I encourage to loook at the different resolutions. We need a new timetable. We are essentially a month behind our previous timetable. We'll ask for an extension.
15:10:55 <dgarijo> ... there is now an implementation team
15:11:12 <dgarijo> ... in order to produce a report in interoperable implementations
15:11:21 <pgroth> q?
15:11:25 <dgarijo> ... we'll try to summarize this for next week
15:11:36 <pgroth> q?
15:11:45 <pgroth> Topic: Reminders
15:12:19 <dgarijo> pgroth: for the PAQ we are keen on getting all the issues and request for features
15:12:48 <dgarijo> ... we have met the deadline, but let's make it the middle of next week for issues and future requests
15:12:50 <pgroth> q?
15:13:15 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvImplementations
15:13:45 <dgarijo> ... I want to highlight 2 new wikipages: 1) prov implementations page: page to keep track of the implementations.
15:14:09 <dgarijo> ... by implementations we mean extensions and applications.
15:14:22 <dgarijo> ... if you are developing something, please add the link there
15:14:23 <pgroth> q?
15:14:48 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/OutreachInformation
15:15:30 <dgarijo> pgroth: 2) ourtreach Info page. All the blog post and tutorials that have been done. If you have done anything then this will be a good place to document it.
15:15:41 <dgarijo> ... feel free to add anything
15:15:43 <pgroth> q?
15:15:58 <dgarijo> s /ourtreach/outreach
15:16:17 <dgarijo> pgroth: the slides will be there also.
15:16:32 <dgarijo> ... finally, f2f4 will be collocated with ISWC
15:16:43 <dgarijo> ... we will be adding a poll
15:16:51 <pgroth> q?
15:17:07 <pgroth> Topic: Updates
15:17:08 <dgarijo> ... updates
15:17:25 <dgarijo> ... DC and DM. Will skip on prov o
15:17:49 <pgroth> dgarijo: talked to kai yesterday
15:17:55 <khalidBelhajjame> dgarijo: agreed with Kai to resolve the issues identified in the reviews
15:18:01 <pgroth> thanks khalidBelhajjame 
15:18:12 <khalidBelhajjame> ... produces something by July
15:18:39 <khalidBelhajjame> ... we will ask for reviews again once a note is ready for that
15:19:07 <pgroth> q?
15:19:10 <MacTed> Zakim, code?
15:19:10 <Zakim> the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), MacTed
15:19:17 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:19:26 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:19:26 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:19:28 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:19:28 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:19:29 <khalidBelhajjame> dgarijo: we wanted to have the note early to have time to address the reviews that we anticipate
15:19:38 <pgroth> q?
15:19:51 <dgarijo> @khalid thanks for scribing, I will continue.
15:20:09 <dgarijo> Luc: update on DM.
15:20:19 <dgarijo> ... working on the resolutions made on the f2f
15:20:29 <dgarijo> ... now they are on the agenda
15:20:54 <dgarijo> ... dictionary : we remove dictionary, which will be moved to a note.
15:21:01 <dgarijo> ... along with most of its relations
15:21:13 <dgarijo> ... collections/membership will be kept
15:21:31 <dgarijo> ... discussion on tracedTo
15:21:58 <dgarijo> ... led to a resolution (unexpected) where it is replaced by influenced. (Not transitive)
15:22:17 <dgarijo> ... component 3 is being renamed including influence as well.
15:22:38 <dgarijo> ... had discussions about which datatypes & version of RDF to follow.
15:22:50 <dgarijo> ... adopted some of the text in OWL 2
15:23:00 <dgarijo> ... problem with xsd schema changing
15:23:18 <dgarijo> ... we will have to be conformant to version 1.1 of RDF
15:23:33 <dgarijo> ... Ivan was happy with that.
15:23:39 <dgarijo> ... people could review that
15:23:50 <dgarijo> ... hadLocation was debated as well.
15:24:14 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#term-mention
15:24:27 <dgarijo> ... discussion on contextualization (continued in the mailing list). Resolved to rename contextualization. Also the notion of mentions (a bundle mentions an entity).
15:24:54 <pgroth> q?
15:24:59 <dgarijo> ... this will be marked as at risk, so we will be able to drop it if there are problems when implementing this.
15:25:30 <pgroth> Topic: Contextualization
15:25:57 <dgarijo> ... we had this resolution, to rename contextualization. Marked as risk
15:26:00 <dgarijo> ... long debate
15:26:09 <dgarijo> ... seems to be coming to some resolution
15:26:18 <dgarijo> ... do people have comments/questions?
15:26:35 <dgarijo> ... in particular the proposal to rename it to mention
15:26:36 <pgroth> q?
15:26:51 <jcheney> think we need to hear from graham, who's not here
15:27:02 <jcheney> i'm happy with renaming to mention & marking at risk
15:27:34 <dgarijo> ... in the mailing list Graham seems to be ok with renaming it and marking it as risk
15:27:59 <Luc> q+
15:28:39 <satya> I am also fine with including it (but not overloading specialization) and marking it as risk
15:29:10 <dgarijo> Luc: we need to indicate explicitly the features at risk and be specific about why it is at risk. It remains to be done. I don't know how it should be written, so it would be good to have some input.
15:29:46 <dgarijo> ... we need to explain to the readers what to look at and what the issue is.
15:30:40 <dgarijo> pgroth: my feeling is that having a long description would confuse the reader. By doing that you bias the user
15:30:43 <pgroth> q?
15:30:55 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:30:56 <pgroth> q?
15:31:18 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:31:18 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:31:39 <dgarijo> MacTed: not sure how this can replace context
15:31:40 <pgroth> q?
15:31:49 <pgroth> Topic: Reviewers
15:32:03 <MacTed> s/this can replace context/"mention" can replace "context"/
15:32:16 <dgarijo> pgroth: We agreed at the f2f that DM would try to address all the issues by ????
15:32:27 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:32:27 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
15:32:37 <pgroth> q?
15:32:42 <dgarijo> ... PROV-O : Tim said that the ontology would be ready for tomorrow
15:32:54 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:32:54 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:32:55 <dgarijo> ... we will start 1 week review perios
15:32:58 <dgarijo> period
15:33:10 <dgarijo> ... and the we will go for LC
15:33:41 <dgarijo> ... the goal would be to get all reviews for next friday
15:33:56 <pgroth> q?
15:34:14 <dgarijo> ... questions about the timetable?
15:34:29 <Luc> q+
15:34:32 <dgarijo> ... who will be willing to review DM?
15:34:48 <dgarijo> Luc: are we reviewing the changes?
15:34:54 <Luc> ack luc
15:35:08 <khalidBelhajjame> I will review the changes in the DM
15:35:10 <dgarijo> ... paul: review of the changes, but if you want to review the entire doc, it would be ok
15:35:32 <dgarijo> Luc: it would be good if Khalid and Daniel review the changes
15:35:34 <dgarijo> ok
15:35:38 <jcheney> I will try to review DM, needed to update constraints anyway.
15:35:38 <dgarijo> I'll review them
15:35:54 <dgarijo> paul: anyone else?
15:36:18 <pgroth> reviewers: james, khalidBelhajjame, daniel
15:36:24 <Luc> q+
15:36:36 <dgarijo> ... as a reminder, this is the document for LC. So please read it.
15:36:47 <dgarijo> Luc: I am concerned by the lack of reviewers
15:36:53 <dgarijo> ... we will have a vote in 2 weeks
15:37:12 <dgarijo> ... there is no point if there are no reviewers.
15:37:25 <khalidBelhajjame> Many people are not on the telecon, so it may be a good idea to send an email to the mailing list
15:37:29 <satya> q+
15:37:40 <dgarijo> ... graham has been critical with some constructs I'd like his feedback. Satya and MacTed as well.
15:37:57 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:38:15 <dgarijo> Satya: I was not formally volunteer, but I plan to read the doc
15:38:53 <dgarijo> pgroth: if you could look at the things you weren't agreeing on.
15:39:10 <dgarijo> Satya: Yes
15:39:12 <pgroth> ack satya
15:39:13 <pgroth> q?
15:39:48 <Luc> q+
15:39:56 <pgroth> ack Luc
15:40:10 <dgarijo> paul: if someone doesn't read the document and votes against it will be considered a foul vote.
15:40:15 <Luc> ack luc
15:40:27 <dgarijo> luc: we'll send a reminder to the list
15:40:38 <dgarijo> pgroth: any more reviewers?
15:40:47 <dgarijo> ... PROV-O ontology
15:40:58 <dgarijo> ... stable and aligned to DM
15:41:28 <dgarijo> ... difficult to fix the narrative since DM is being changed, but we'll release the ontology. Narrative will come later
15:41:57 <dgarijo> ... questions?
15:42:05 <pgroth> q?
15:42:14 <dgarijo> I think it makes a lot of sense.
15:42:23 <satya> @Paul, we agreed to this in the call on Monday
15:43:03 <Luc> +1
15:43:07 <dgarijo> pgroth: reviewers for prov-o?
15:43:19 <Luc> +q
15:43:20 <dgarijo> ... Paul, Luc, 
15:43:26 <jcheney> will ead, may not be able to fully review
15:43:32 <jcheney> will read, may not be able to fully review
15:43:39 <dgarijo> Luc: same comment as before. We need reviewers
15:43:45 <pgroth> reviewers: Paul, Luc
15:43:49 <Luc> ack 
15:43:50 <dgarijo> ... Will send an email
15:44:02 <Luc> ack luc
15:44:36 <satya> a suggestion - it will be helpful if the persons who have signed up for applications/implementation review PROV-O specifically
15:44:40 <dgarijo> pgroth: it is very important to get feedback
15:44:49 <pgroth> q?
15:44:54 <Luc> q+
15:44:58 <MacTed> I cannot guaranteed full review of all docs, but best effort will be made.  
15:44:58 <MacTed> please provide URIs for each and every doc for which reviews are requested.  there are far too many to keep track of.
15:44:58 <MacTed> if there's an intended "these depend on those" track, then prioritized list will be helpful.
15:45:27 <dgarijo> Luc: there are more docs. ProvN (under review).
15:45:37 <dgarijo> ... still not any feedback received
15:46:03 <jcheney> I read the last version before f2f3.  No objections.  Will read revised version more carefully.
15:46:17 <dgarijo> ... please send the feedback. I'll send an email as a reminder
15:46:34 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:46:34 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:46:58 <Luc> @jcheney, thanks, could you just email this for the record. There was an issue for feedback.
15:47:10 <dgarijo> Macted: It will be very helpful if you could provide URIs for each doc+ prioritization.
15:47:12 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkingDrafts
15:47:25 <pgroth> q?
15:47:29 <jcheney> has all the links but there is some cruft.
15:47:58 <dgarijo> pgroth: I will send an email with the specific URIs
15:48:05 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:48:05 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:48:06 <pgroth> ack luc
15:48:18 <khalidBelhajjame> :-)
15:48:20 <satya> :)
15:48:21 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
15:48:26 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame
15:48:27 <Zakim> -pgroth
15:48:29 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:48:29 <Zakim> -Luc
15:48:30 <Zakim> -dgarijo
15:48:30 <Zakim> -jun
15:48:32 <Zakim> -MacTed
15:48:41 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
15:48:45 <Zakim> -??P44
15:48:50 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:48:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
15:48:52 <MacTed> s/prioritization/prioritization and dependency order/
15:48:58 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
15:48:58 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:48:58 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Luc, pgroth, jun, khalidBelhajjame, Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo, MacTed
15:49:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:49:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
15:49:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:49:07 <RRSAgent> I see no action items