IRC log of mlw-lt on 2012-06-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:52:51 [RRSAgent]
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08:52:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-irc
08:52:54 [fsasaki]
chair: felix
08:52:58 [fsasaki]
scribe: tbd
09:04:42 [mhellwig]
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09:05:32 [dgroves]
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09:05:53 [fsasaki]
scribeNick: fsasaki
09:06:47 [fsasaki]
topic: Your topics related to your WPs
09:07:30 [fsasaki]
declan: in WP4 and WP5, doing work in tandem
09:07:43 [fsasaki]
.. a lot of wrapper technologies will be both for trainign and translation result
09:08:03 [fsasaki]
felix: will domain also play a role in both WPs?
09:08:13 [fsasaki]
declan: depends on actual test data that we'll use
09:08:47 [fsasaki]
topic: our internal infrastructure
09:08:53 [fsasaki]
https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/ec-internal/wiki/Main_Page
09:09:03 [fsasaki]
lists.w3.org/Archives/Team/multilingualweb-lt-partners/
09:10:00 [fsasaki]
moritz: will have a meeting 16-17 July with potential customers
09:10:09 [fsasaki]
.. has been going to slow so far, but will be fine
09:10:18 [fsasaki]
topic: Next call
09:10:47 [fsasaki]
felix - will schedule a call end of July
09:11:35 [mhellwig]
DrupalCon Munich August 20th through 24th, 2012
09:11:49 [fsasaki]
dublin: last week of July would be good
09:11:58 [fsasaki]
.. after that we'll kick in with implementation work
09:12:23 [fsasaki]
.. so first week of august would be better for me
09:12:27 [fsasaki]
s/dublin/declan/
09:13:05 [fsasaki]
topic: Your opinion on time schedule
09:13:13 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
09:14:00 [fsasaki]
declan: time schedule would work for me
09:14:04 [fsasaki]
for moritz too
09:14:32 [fsasaki]
topic: implementations related to data categories
09:14:33 [fsasaki]
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvFh3PcCczdRdF9mZ1UyS3VXT2pNNnllLWtQa0lFOFE#gid=0
09:16:02 [fsasaki]
declan: will fill that in early next week
09:16:05 [fsasaki]
topic: Your input on potential candidates for reserved budget
09:18:10 [fsasaki]
declan: would be worth into looking into content provider
09:19:51 [fsasaki]
moritz: agree with above - tilde is interesting for us esp.
09:22:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:23:22 [fsasaki]
topic: MLW-LT WP leader call
09:23:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:23:47 [fsasaki]
meeting: MLW-LT WP leader call
09:23:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:24:34 [fsasaki]
present: moritz, declan, felix
09:24:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
09:26:41 [fsasaki]
rrsagent, bye
09:26:41 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items
13:45:55 [RRSAgent]
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13:45:55 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-irc
13:45:59 [fsasaki]
meeting: MLW-LT WG
13:46:03 [fsasaki]
chair: felix
13:46:16 [fsasaki]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
13:46:19 [fsasaki]
scribe: tbd
13:51:40 [fsasaki]
regrets: olaf
13:53:24 [Zakim]
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13:57:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:58:14 [fsasaki]
agenda+ actions
13:58:34 [fsasaki]
agenda+ general reminder about july
13:58:52 [fsasaki]
agenda+ general reminder for september
13:59:27 [mhellwig]
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13:59:33 [fsasaki]
agenda+ propose to close issue-3
13:59:34 [mlefranc]
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13:59:51 [fsasaki]
agenda+ propose to close issue-23
13:59:52 [shaunm]
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13:59:55 [fsasaki]
agenda+ propose to close issue-1
14:00:00 [fsasaki]
agenda+ propose to close issue-6
14:00:03 [Jirka]
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14:00:14 [fsasaki]
agenda+ volunteer for issue-9
14:00:21 [fsasaki]
agenda+ issue-13
14:00:27 [fsasaki]
agenda+ issue-16
14:00:33 [fsasaki]
agenda+ issue-24
14:00:33 [Jirka]
Hi, I don't see gotomeeting details in agenda, can someone post it here pls?
14:00:43 [fsasaki]
agenda+ rdf serialization
14:00:50 [fsasaki]
agenda+ terminology discussion
14:01:17 [fsasaki]
hi all, gotomeeting id is 682416317
14:01:39 [Jirka]
thx
14:03:02 [fsasaki]
present: dave, felix, dom, maxime, moritz, jirka, shaun
14:03:03 [daveL]
daveL has joined #mlw-lt
14:03:21 [shaunm]
can anybody link me the call-in details? I can't seem to find them
14:03:34 [fsasaki]
hi shaun , the meeting id is 682416317
14:04:08 [fsasaki]
you can follow this link: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/682416317
14:04:32 [fsasaki]
present+ tadej
14:05:06 [Des]
Des has joined #mlw-lt
14:05:30 [tadej]
tadej has joined #mlw-lt
14:05:40 [fsasaki]
hi des, you can follow this link to join us on the phone : https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/682416317
14:05:44 [fsasaki]
present+ des
14:05:49 [DomJones]
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14:06:11 [Des]
I'm jisut downloading it just now Felix. Be on in a minute or so
14:06:25 [fsasaki]
scribe: tadej
14:06:34 [tadej]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:06:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html tadej
14:06:49 [fsasaki]
topic: agenda
14:06:50 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0159.html
14:07:05 [fsasaki]
topic: last weeks minutes
14:07:13 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html
14:07:26 [fsasaki]
no comments
14:07:36 [fsasaki]
topic: action items
14:07:44 [fsasaki]
action-135?
14:07:44 [trackbot]
ACTION-135 -- Pedro Luis Díez Orzas to pedro to have Giuseppe to flesh out specialRequirements -- due 2012-06-22 -- OPEN
14:07:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/135
14:07:53 [fsasaki]
action-126?
14:07:53 [trackbot]
ACTION-126 -- David Filip to david to come up with a proposal for mtConfidence -- due 2012-07-02 -- OPEN
14:07:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/126
14:08:29 [fsasaki]
action-126 due to next thursday
14:08:29 [trackbot]
ACTION-126 David to come up with a proposal for mtConfidence due date now to next thursday
14:08:38 [fsasaki]
action-107?
14:08:38 [trackbot]
ACTION-107 -- Shaun McCance to flesh out locale proposal -- due 2012-07-05 -- OPEN
14:08:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/107
14:08:55 [fsasaki]
action-107 next thursday
14:09:16 [fsasaki]
close action-141
14:09:16 [trackbot]
ACTION-141 Table in a staging wiki page to notify current state of all data categories in terms of consensus and impl comitments. closed
14:09:30 [fsasaki]
action-81?
14:09:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-81 -- David Lewis to consider consolidation of author, revisionAgent and translationAgent -- due 2012-05-17 -- CLOSED
14:09:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/81
14:09:45 [fsasaki]
close action-81
14:09:45 [trackbot]
ACTION-81 consider consolidation of author, revisionAgent and translationAgent closed
14:10:08 [fsasaki]
topic: General reminder - timeline in july
14:10:21 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Implementation_Commitments
14:10:30 [tadej]
fsasaki: By mid-July, we should decide on which data categories we need.
14:11:00 [fsasaki]
topic: General reminder: our plan until September
14:11:01 [tadej]
fsasaki: Implementation commitments to end of July
14:11:06 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0133.html
14:12:42 [tadej]
fsasaki: In september, we release an update draft version. Everyone should have a description of a prototype.
14:13:15 [tadej]
daveL: One level is a running prototype, and another level is passing the test suites. When do we need to do the latter?
14:13:35 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2011/12/mlw-lt-charter.html
14:14:24 [tadej]
fsasaki: The W3C process doesn't require that until next year. I would propose that people develop examples along with the prototypes.
14:15:11 [tadej]
daveL: Does it make sense to develop some common prototype test suites?
14:15:34 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/
14:15:41 [tadej]
... That might kick-start the process with developing tests. We might even start with ITS1.0 tests.
14:15:55 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/#usage-in-html5
14:16:20 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20120626/examples/html5/EX-translate-html5-global-1.html
14:16:54 [tadej]
fsasaki: These are HTML5 examples for ITS, we'll put our examples in these directories.
14:16:57 [mlefranc]
q+ Maxime
14:17:34 [tadej]
fsasaki: These examples are simultaneously in the test files.
14:17:42 [fsasaki]
ack ma
14:18:03 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
14:18:18 [tadej]
Maxime: Would the test output files have a repository?
14:18:26 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:18:30 [tadej]
fsasaki: We need to develop new tests for new data category features
14:18:40 [tadej]
... Here's an example of a test output
14:19:15 [tadej]
... However, we don't want to force implementors to reproduce this artificial output literally.
14:20:09 [tadej]
... But it should be an illustrative example to help them.
14:20:36 [tadej]
Des: We're considering creating a default set of 'test contents' to demonstrate the implementation, in a complete round trip.
14:21:23 [tadej]
... it could serve as a standard set of contents that other people can work with (and is realistic)
14:21:52 [tadej]
fsasaki: We developed different kinds of XLIFFs in various round-trips and use cases.
14:22:27 [tadej]
... We might not end up with a single 'gold standard' of data, but more a set of best practice examples on what to do with metadata.
14:23:16 [tadej]
... We can start discussing this in September.
14:23:27 [tadej]
... And concentrate on the best practives
14:23:35 [tadej]
s/practives/practices/
14:23:59 [tadej]
daveL: Would Adobe be a good example of what we're doing?
14:24:16 [tadej]
Des: Yes, interop of the metadata is the main goal here.
14:24:34 [tadej]
... that would be a good way to demonstrate it, as long as it's on the agenda.
14:25:00 [tadej]
... We might not have exact applicable content, but I can participate in constructing some examples content.
14:25:06 [tadej]
s/examples/example
14:25:07 [tadej]
s/examples/example/
14:25:13 [fsasaki]
action: felix to think about a round tripping test suite data package
14:25:13 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-145 - Think about a round tripping test suite data package [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-05].
14:25:52 [fsasaki]
present+ pedro
14:26:14 [fsasaki]
topic: Propose to close ISSUE-3
14:26:31 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0157.html
14:29:07 [fsasaki]
topic: Propose to close ISSUE-23
14:29:10 [fsasaki]
issue-23?
14:29:10 [trackbot]
ISSUE-23 -- Re-draft section 7.6. "Removal, Archiving and Re-integration of ITS mark-up" -- open
14:29:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/23
14:29:24 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0042.html
14:29:46 [tadej]
fsasaki: No comments around ISSUE-3, let's close it and keep it in mind when defining best practices
14:30:22 [Pedro]
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14:30:33 [fsasaki]
topic: ISSUE-1
14:30:35 [tadej]
fsasaki: Any issues with closing ISSUE-23? .. No, closing it.
14:31:49 [fsasaki]
topic: Propose to close "ISSUE-6: Process State"
14:32:45 [tadej]
fsasaki: We can close these by September when we finalize these. Any comments against closing it now?
14:34:18 [tadej]
daveL: Getting data categories closed by September. It would be beneficial to be able to demonstrate a concrete pipeline (Des)
14:34:36 [fsasaki]
issue-16?
14:34:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-16 -- Parameter for rules -- open
14:34:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/16
14:34:41 [fsasaki]
issue-24?
14:34:41 [trackbot]
ISSUE-24 -- Proposal to change ITS term -- open
14:34:41 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/24
14:35:13 [tadej]
fsasaki: I propose closing ISSUE-16 and ISSUE-24? Any comments?
14:36:47 [tadej]
shaunm: (ISSUE-16) Global parameter default may encourage bad practices, but we should discuss what would be a way to specify them.
14:37:01 [fsasaki]
topic: RDF serialization
14:37:08 [tadej]
fsasaki: Let's keep ISSUE-16 open until further discussion.
14:37:37 [fsasaki]
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1Y8yLjJpWTJFA-WTvRhTDd6zl6jBOE9P5ckTfCZqUZIk
14:38:19 [fsasaki]
scribe: fsasaki
14:38:45 [fsasaki]
maxime: there are two different ways to do the mapping to RDF
14:39:14 [fsasaki]
.. first one would be to compute each element and attribute in XML world, then convert that into rdf
14:39:19 [fsasaki]
s/one/approach/
14:39:57 [fsasaki]
.. option b) would be to transform ITS metadata in RDF, that is ITS global rules in RDF
14:40:06 [fsasaki]
.. the google docs goes into option b
14:40:46 [fsasaki]
.. the dom fragments refer to one fragment in the element / or attribute. Pretty similar to what is shown in the artifical output at http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:41:12 [fsasaki]
.. question is: do we want to do that in RDF or do via option a?
14:41:24 [fsasaki]
.. if there is no use case, we can have standard output in XML like http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/test1/Translate1-result.xml
14:41:31 [fsasaki]
and transform that into a RDF/XML document
14:41:43 [fsasaki]
.. so mapping would be a simple xslt stylesheet
14:42:10 [fsasaki]
tadej: right now the data that we expect in the rdf file will be for disambiguation, ne terms etc.
14:42:15 [fsasaki]
.. so things that don't appear in global rules
14:42:25 [fsasaki]
.. we can defintetely work with option a) to do that
14:42:33 [fsasaki]
.. so there is no use case in producing b)
14:42:59 [fsasaki]
.. so we can keep the use case in mind - in dublin we discussed a lot whether it is possible
14:43:08 [fsasaki]
.. it is possible but takes a lot of effort to implement
14:43:27 [fsasaki]
.. so for practical purposes the option a) is easier to do
14:43:44 [fsasaki]
maxime: writing two options in the draft, asking for comments would be good
14:44:12 [DomJones]
I have to leave unfortunately. Apologies. Dom
14:44:19 [fsasaki]
dave: going back to use cases ...
14:44:35 [fsasaki]
.. obvious use case for option a is: extract connections between content and external entities
14:44:41 [fsasaki]
.. and publish it in NIF ontology
14:44:55 [fsasaki]
.. so that would be a way to collect the data from an ITS parser into RDF
14:45:18 [fsasaki]
.. use case is to collect it as a language resource for other NLP components
14:45:32 [fsasaki]
tadej: that is one of the things we proposed in Dublin
14:45:47 [fsasaki]
.. I'm worried about having an end-to-end use case
14:46:01 [fsasaki]
.. this is rather a bridge use case, not doing something with that
14:46:03 [fsasaki]
dave: sure
14:46:22 [fsasaki]
.. if anybody can see a use to cause an implementation, it is a valid use case
14:46:56 [fsasaki]
.. people in the localization industry won't jump into this soon, but maybe in language resources area
14:46:59 [fsasaki]
tadej: agree
14:47:11 [fsasaki]
.. sebastian wrote a long mail before the meeting describing that
14:47:19 [fsasaki]
.. even NIF has to grow more to accomodate these use cases
14:47:31 [fsasaki]
.. so this particular part might be delayed
14:48:42 [fsasaki]
maxime: for option a we would need a standard output
14:49:18 [fsasaki]
felix: that would be part of the recommendation
14:50:41 [tadej]
felix: Can someone update the google doc on ITS-RDF integration to update it to standards-language?
14:50:49 [fsasaki]
action: maxime to write something for option b) of rdf conversion
14:50:49 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-146 - Write something for option b) of rdf conversion [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2012-07-05].
14:51:05 [fsasaki]
action: felix to write something for option a) of rdf conversion, plus XSLT
14:51:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-147 - Write something for option a) of rdf conversion, plus XSLT [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-07-05].
14:52:06 [tadej]
topic: Terminology
14:53:00 [fsasaki]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Jun/0158.html
14:53:20 [fsasaki]
tadej: above is the list of latest examples
14:53:33 [fsasaki]
.. I defined "entityRel" attribute to determine the relationship for the link
14:53:44 [fsasaki]
.. a NE, term, WSD, or NE type
14:54:04 [fsasaki]
.. only bigger mismatch is: instead of having entityRel for each type we would define individual attributes
14:54:13 [fsasaki]
.. that's the only way to keep this part consistent
14:54:25 [fsasaki]
.. other issue that in ITS 1.0, the attributes only mention "term"
14:54:28 [mlefranc]
action: maxime to use the standard output XML files and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML XSLT stylesheet
14:54:29 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-148 - Use the standard output XML files and the already written RDF vocabulary to draft a XML->RDF/XML XSLT stylesheet [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2012-07-05].
14:54:35 [fsasaki]
.. i.e. term=yes, termInfo, termInfoRef
14:54:49 [fsasaki]
.. so I'd propose different attributes
14:55:03 [fsasaki]
.. at the end it is the question of markup - consistency vs. backwards compatibility
14:55:21 [fsasaki]
.. keeping strict compatibility will lead to more markup
14:55:43 [fsasaki]
.. more specifc, the term data category is the same
14:55:53 [fsasaki]
.. except that we allow people to specify terminology lexcion
14:56:01 [fsasaki]
.. and there is looser support for identifiers
14:58:08 [Pedro]
sorry, but my micro does not work :-(
14:58:27 [mlefranc]
q+ pedro ?
14:58:54 [fsasaki]
pedro, you are now not muted anymore
14:59:08 [tadej]
Pedro: ...
14:59:41 [tadej]
Pedro: We wanted to discuss the event in Madrid.
15:00:16 [tadej]
fsasaki: Can we continue with this topic next week?
15:00:32 [tadej]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:00:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html tadej
15:01:08 [fsasaki]
sure
15:01:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/28-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:01:54 [fsasaki]
http://www.w3.org/2012/06/21-mlw-lt-minutes.html