13:57:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:57:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-irc
13:57:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:57:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:59 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:59 <trackbot> Date: 12 June 2012
13:59:06 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:59:13 <Zakim> + +0162859aaaa
13:59:38 <Zakim> + +1.512.255.aabb
13:59:45 <Zakim> + +1.202.447.aacc
14:00:18 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:28 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:00:32 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.608.514.aadd
14:01:01 <Zakim> +??P11
14:01:15 <greggvanderheiden> That’s gregg  514
14:01:44 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:01:44 <mapluke> mapluke has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:45 <MichaelC> zakim, zakim, aabb is Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:01:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'zakim, aabb is Mary_Jo_Mueller', MichaelC
14:01:56 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Kiran_Kaja
14:01:56 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja; got it
14:02:19 <Zakim> + +1.202.272.aaee
14:02:25 <MichaelC> zakim, aadd is Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:02:25 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
14:02:31 <Zakim> +??P21
14:02:40 <MichaelC> zakim, aaee is Bruce_Bailey
14:02:40 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey; got it
14:02:48 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:02:49 <MichaelC> zakim, aacc is Al_Hoffman
14:02:49 <Zakim> +Al_Hoffman; got it
14:03:02 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:15 <MichaelC> zakim, Oracle is Peter_Korn
14:03:15 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:03:20 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P21 is Mike_Pluke
14:03:20 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:03:31 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:03:31 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller; got it
14:03:42 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P11 is Michael_Cooper
14:03:43 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
14:03:50 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
14:03:50 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
14:04:21 <MichaelC> scribe: MaryJo
14:04:25 <Andi> agenda+ Action items review
14:04:33 <MichaelC> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
14:04:39 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jun/0021.html
14:05:02 <Andi> agenda+ Discussion of "Survey for June 5th Meeting" https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results
14:05:21 <Andi> agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items
14:06:43 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:06:45 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Action items review" taken up [from Andi]
14:06:45 <Zakim> + +1.410.965.aaff
14:06:58 <MichaelC> zakim, aaff is Pierce_Crowell
14:06:58 <Zakim> +Pierce_Crowell; got it
14:07:12 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open
14:07:53 <Andi> ACTION-1?
14:07:53 <trackbot> ACTION-1 -- Michael Cooper to finish setting up the infrastructure -- due 2012-05-29 -- OPEN
14:07:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/1
14:08:02 <MaryJo> MC: Not sure what to do for a comment tool and haven't 100% resolved editing.  Google docs will continue to be used.
14:08:18 <Zakim> +??P31
14:08:33 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:34 <MaryJo> AS: Project plan is currently a part of the google doc. 
14:08:47 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P31 is Janina_Sajka
14:08:47 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:09:40 <MaryJo> AS: Would like to have a wiki set up.
14:09:41 <Andi> action-4?
14:09:41 <trackbot> ACTION-4 -- Alex Li to propose a Note to 1.2.4 to address his concern about two-way conversations -- due 2012-06-12 -- OPEN
14:09:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/4
14:09:58 <Andi> action-5?
14:09:58 <trackbot> ACTION-5 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to take issue to WCAG regarding 3.3.4 intent - did not intend that every web app that edits something has to have a confirmation before proceeding -- due 2012-06-12 -- OPEN
14:09:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/5
14:09:59 <Alex_> Alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:10:00 <MichaelC> close action-1
14:10:00 <trackbot> ACTION-1 Finish setting up the infrastructure closed
14:10:03 <Pierce> Pierce has joined #wcag2ict
14:10:08 <MichaelC> close action-4
14:10:08 <trackbot> ACTION-4 Propose a Note to 1.2.4 to address his concern about two-way conversations closed
14:10:52 <MaryJo> GV: Results from Action 5 - Scheduled to go out for the survey this week.
14:11:08 <mapluke> q+
14:11:49 <Andi> action: Andi to set up regular reporting to WCAG working group
14:11:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Set up regular reporting to WCAG working group [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-06-19].
14:11:53 <MichaelC> action-4: <http://www.w3.org/mid/F822343930D48B4C88B4D0DAACC194E01CB8A8DF@CH1PRD0310MB392.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
14:11:53 <trackbot> ACTION-4 Propose a Note to 1.2.4 to address his concern about two-way conversations notes added
14:12:31 <MaryJo> GV: Moved the project plan to a higher level so it doesn't look like it is part of our document.
14:12:54 <Andi> zakim, next item
14:12:56 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Andi
14:13:03 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:13:07 <Andi> zakim, next item
14:13:07 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Discussion of "Survey for June 5th Meeting" https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results" taken up [from Andi]
14:14:06 <MaryJo> AS: Need to continue offline discussion of 2.1.1
14:14:20 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq3
14:14:21 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:14:54 <MaryJo> AS: Suggest add a note that 'information' applies to all content.
14:15:10 <Andi> ack gregg
14:15:28 <greggvanderheiden> q-
14:15:30 <mapluke> q+
14:16:06 <Pierce> +q
14:16:23 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:16:43 <MaryJo> Mike: M376 had a note referencing Attention Deficit Disorder, but thinks that this should be generalized to cover more cognitive disabilities.
14:17:07 <korn> q+
14:17:27 <korn> q-
14:17:27 <MaryJo> GV: In the U.S. Attention Deficit Disorder is not a cognitive disability, it is a learning disability.
14:17:48 <korn> Pierce: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq3
14:17:49 <Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq3
14:17:58 <Andi> ack pierce
14:18:26 <MaryJo> GV: We need to say cognitive and learning disabilities to cover both countries.
14:19:03 <Andi> Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive or learning disabilities."
14:19:34 <greggvanderheiden> "This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above).
14:19:53 <korn> q+
14:20:51 <Andi> q+
14:20:52 <korn> q-
14:20:55 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:21:04 <korn> q+
14:21:09 <greggvanderheiden> cognitive, learning and other disabilities.
14:21:15 <greggvanderheiden> +
14:21:17 <Andi> ack Andi
14:21:18 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:21:41 <Andi> ack gregg
14:21:52 <Pierce> +q
14:22:09 <mapluke> q+
14:22:47 <korn> q-
14:22:49 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:22:55 <Andi> ack pierce
14:23:32 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:23:43 <Andi> ack gregg
14:24:30 <Andi> Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and learning disabilities.
14:25:26 <Andi> Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and other disabilities.
14:25:57 <Andi> RESOLUTION: accept 2.2.2 text as amended
14:26:43 <mapluke> q+
14:26:50 <Pierce> +q
14:26:59 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq4
14:27:00 <korn> q+
14:27:26 <Andi> 2.4.1 Bypass blocks
14:27:46 <MaryJo> AS: Want to discuss the term 'interaction context' and its possible use instead of 'web pages' in the SC
14:27:47 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:28:14 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:28:22 <greggvanderheiden> ack p
14:28:33 <Andi> ack pierce
14:28:51 <MaryJo> Pierce: Likes Loic's document portion, but want more specifics on what facilities can be used to bypass blocks (Use of headings)
14:28:54 <Andi> q+
14:29:28 <Andi> ack korn
14:29:49 <mapluke> q+
14:29:56 <janina> +1 to Peter
14:30:02 <korn> q-
14:30:05 <Andi> ack gregg
14:30:06 <MaryJo> PK: If you substitute interaction context for web page, it means multiple dialog boxes, multiple menus, etc.  The term breaks down in these contexts.
14:31:53 <korn> q+
14:32:52 <Pierce> +q
14:33:00 <MaryJo> GV: Any time a user has to listen to the same things over and over to get to what you want, a mechanism should be made to bypass it.  Supports the use of the term 'interaction context'.  
14:33:13 <Andi> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#glossary
14:33:20 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:34:26 <Andi> ack andi
14:34:55 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:35:00 <Andi> ack korn
14:36:08 <korn> q-
14:36:10 <mapluke> q+
14:36:13 <MaryJo> PK: Hasn't seen repeated content such as this in the software domain. Questions whether this needs to be applied to software.
14:36:18 <Andi> q+ Al_Hoffman
14:36:23 <Andi> ack pierce
14:36:49 <Andi> q+
14:37:09 <korn> q+
14:37:24 <Andi> ack gregg
14:37:43 <MaryJo> GV: Happens all of the time in software - ribbons, menus, etc. In software the structure makes it easy to meet this SC.
14:39:02 <MaryJo> GV: In the future, documents and reports will also be considered software because of interaction capabilities being added.
14:40:29 <Pierce> +q
14:40:33 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:40:40 <Andi> ack al
14:40:55 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:41:40 <Andi> ack andi
14:41:48 <MaryJo> AS: Examples being given so far is a single interaction context (ribbons, toolbars, etc.) so don't see how this is applicable.
14:42:09 <Andi> ack korn
14:42:47 <Andi> ack pierce
14:43:03 <MaryJo> PK: It is valuable to have the appropriate structural markup in software. Agrees with Andi that the example given is a single interaction context.
14:43:30 <MaryJo> PK: The structual markup is covered by a different SC.
14:44:49 <Andi> ack gregg
14:45:56 <korn> q+
14:47:29 <Pierce> +q
14:47:43 <MaryJo> GV: Example - When you have multiple documents open, you need a way to bypass the ribbons, etc. 
14:49:22 <Andi> q+
14:49:45 <MaryJo> GV: Another example - If there is a book with a header that repeats, it could be structured incorrectly so the user hears it every time they change pages.
14:51:15 <Andi> ack korn
14:51:17 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:51:32 <Andi> ack pierce
14:52:01 <MaryJo> GV: The structure of software often doesn't require any further action to be made to meet this SC.
14:52:43 <greggvanderheiden> GV:  perhaps add a note that says "The structure of software usually allows the person to be able to skip over any repeated blocks, and the SC would be met
14:53:09 <Andi> action: Peter to draft text for 2.4.1 to address issues with software
14:53:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-7 - Draft text for 2.4.1 to address issues with software [on Peter Korn - due 2012-06-19].
14:53:24 <Andi> ack gregg
14:54:24 <korn> q+
14:55:54 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
14:56:04 <Pierce> the complication is that the techniques will describe the web techniques and confuse SW developers who will not get an example for SW.
14:57:07 <Andi> ack andi
14:57:20 <Andi> ack korn
14:57:44 <MaryJo> AS: We can't forget mobile and should revisit this with mobile in mind.
14:57:45 <janina> Regret I need to leave the call now.
14:57:49 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
14:58:20 <MaryJo> AS: Focus visible 2.4.7
14:58:28 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN052012/results#xq7
15:00:35 <korn> q+
15:00:39 <MaryJo> GV: Want to avoid the inclusion of techniques used to meet the SC. Want it to be worded so it is informative, not normative.
15:01:13 <Andi> q+
15:01:50 <Pierce> +q
15:02:21 <Andi> ack korn
15:02:31 <Andi> q-
15:03:25 <MaryJo> PK: Would like to see a note or definition in a glossary to clarify the use of a carat to meet this SC for editable text objects.
15:03:28 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:04:02 <Andi> ack pierce
15:04:24 <MaryJo> Pierce: Thinks a carat is assumed even though Section 508 explicitly states it. Agrees that it could be included in a definition of focus.
15:04:30 <korn> q+
15:05:29 <Andi> ack gregg
15:08:19 <MaryJo> GV: Supports a definition of focus being added to the document.  Mode of operation is handled in the conformance model.
15:09:05 <Alex_> q+
15:09:26 <Andi> action: Peter to draft definition of "focus indicator" for 2.4.7
15:09:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-8 - Draft definition of "focus indicator" for 2.4.7 [on Peter Korn - due 2012-06-19].
15:09:30 <MaryJo> PK: Agrees that WCAG does explicitly cover "Mode of operation".
15:09:43 <Andi> q+ Al_Hoffman
15:09:46 <Andi> ack korn
15:09:56 <Andi> ack alex
15:10:56 <Andi> q+
15:11:21 <MaryJo> GV: Definitions in our document are non-normative, since this is a purely informative document.
15:11:25 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:12:25 <Andi> ack andi
15:12:49 <Andi> ack al
15:13:10 <mapluke> q+
15:14:37 <Andi> ack gregg
15:15:23 <MaryJo> AS: WCAG uses the term 'focus indicator' in normative success criteria but doesn't define the term.  Suggests the better approach is through the use of an informative note.
15:16:37 <Pierce> +q
15:18:07 <Andi> ack mapluke
15:18:23 <MaryJo> GV: Suggests we take the issue to WCAG to add what 'focus indicator' means to the understanding WCAG 2.0.
15:18:52 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:19:15 <Andi> ack pierce
15:19:43 <MaryJo> Mike: We do need to interpret the term in the context of software and documents.
15:21:00 <Andi> ack gregg
15:21:11 <korn> q+
15:21:47 <Andi> ack korn
15:24:15 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept Loïc's text for 2.4.7 as proposed.
15:24:40 <Andi> close action-8
15:24:40 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Draft definition of "focus indicator" for 2.4.7 closed
15:25:50 <Andi> action: gregg to work with with Peter Korn to create submission to WCAG to add text to 2.4.7 understanding doc to clarify focus indicator and single item issues
15:25:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Work with with Peter Korn to create submission to WCAG to add text to 2.4.7 understanding doc to clarify focus indicator and single item issues [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-06-19].
15:27:10 <Andi> zakim, next item
15:27:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Confirm next meeting time; action items" taken up [from Andi]
15:28:35 <korn> q+
15:28:38 <Zakim> -Al_Hoffman
15:28:41 <Zakim> -Pierce_Crowell
15:28:44 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:28:45 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:28:46 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
15:28:47 <korn> q-
15:28:47 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:28:47 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
15:28:51 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:28:52 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:29:13 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:29:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:29:39 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict
15:32:07 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
15:32:08 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:32:08 <Zakim> Attendees were +0162859aaaa, +1.512.255.aabb, +1.202.447.aacc, +1.608.514.aadd, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Kiran_Kaja, +1.202.272.aaee, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Bruce_Bailey, Al_Hoffman,
15:32:08 <Zakim> ... Peter_Korn, Mike_Pluke, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, +1.410.965.aaff, Pierce_Crowell, Janina_Sajka
15:34:34 <Andi> zakim, bye
15:34:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:34:38 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:35:06 <Andi> s/That’s gregg 514//
15:36:11 <Andi> s/+q//
15:50:10 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
16:00:50 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
16:05:51 <Andi> but the tool won't let me delete or modify the old one now
16:06:36 <Andi> s/but the tool won't let me delete or modify the old one now//
16:06:47 <Andi> regrets: Judy_Brewer
16:06:54 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:06:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:09:36 <Andi> s/Suggest add a note that 'information' applies to all content./2.2.2 Stop, Pause, Hide: Suggest add a note that 'information' applies to all content per WCAG intent./
16:09:56 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:10:46 <Andi> s/We need to say cognitive and learning disabilities to cover both countries./We need to say cognitive and learning disabilities to cover both U.S. and Europe./
16:10:55 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:10:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:11:31 <Andi> s/Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and learning disabilities.//
16:11:38 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/12-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:13:45 <Andi> s/accept 2.2.2 text as amended/accept 2.2.2 text from Trace as amended with note above/
16:18:07 <MichaelC> s|https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUN132012/||