16:45:08 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:45:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-irc 16:45:10 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:45:10 Zakim has joined #ua 16:45:12 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:45:12 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 16:45:13 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:45:13 Date: 07 June 2012 16:47:48 rrsagent, make minutes 16:47:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html JAllan 16:49:06 kford has joined #ua 16:49:22 agenda+ Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html 16:49:55 agenda+ rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html 16:52:38 agenda+ remove Editor's Note: Add SC for built-in spell checking@@] from 3.2 16:52:54 agenda+ write summary for 3.2 16:54:04 rrsagent, make minutes 16:54:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html JAllan 16:55:13 agenda+ remove action-611 from 3.2 17:00:44 Jan has joined #ua 17:01:03 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:01:10 + +1.425.883.aaaa 17:01:58 +??P7 17:02:16 zakim, ??P7 is really Jan 17:02:16 +Jan; got it 17:02:38 +Jim_Allan 17:03:28 sharper has joined #ua 17:03:57 +Jeanne 17:04:00 jeanne has joined #ua 17:04:55 Greg has joined #ua 17:05:14 +Kim_Patch 17:05:49 zakim, who is here? 17:05:49 On the phone I see +1.425.883.aaaa, Jan, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch 17:05:51 On IRC I see Greg, jeanne, sharper, Jan, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot 17:06:27 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:06:33 zakim, agenda? 17:06:33 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:06:35 1. Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html [from JAllan] 17:06:35 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:06:35 3. remove Editor's Note: Add SC for built-in spell checking@@] from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:06:35 4. write summary for 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:06:36 5. remove action-611 from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:06:56 zakim, code? 17:06:56 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper 17:07:06 +??P6 17:07:08 zakim, ??P6 is sharper 17:07:08 +sharper; got it 17:08:08 zakim, agenda? 17:08:08 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:08:10 1. Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html [from JAllan] 17:08:10 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:08:10 3. remove Editor's Note: Add SC for built-in spell checking@@] from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:08:10 4. write summary for 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:08:11 5. remove action-611 from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:08:17 zakim, open item 1 17:08:17 agendum 1. "Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html" taken up [from JAllan] 17:09:29 jr: ATAG decided to remove the SC because of the testability issue. propose removal for UAAG 17:10:03 ... suggest Preview of display preferences before committing them 17:10:31 kford has joined #ua 17:11:55 2.7.8 Preferences Wizard: One or more wizards help the user to configure the accessibility-related user agent preferences. (Level AAA) 17:12:25 kford has joined #ua 17:12:45 js: -1 reword for preference review before commit 17:12:54 kp: what was the issue 17:13:22 jr: one or more wizards is not testable. if we just limit to display settings 17:13:45 no 17:14:05 Scribe: kford 17:14:07 kp: we have ability to save and reset settings. 17:14:25 KP: We also have a save and share which makes this less important. 17:14:41 JA: So Kim, what are you advocating for? 17:14:50 KP: I'm vauge, I'm a don't know. 17:15:01 JA: so you are a ~1? 17:15:12 ~1 17:15:34 kf: fine with it going. wizards are out of vogue. 17:15:36 sharper has joined #ua 17:15:57 kp: wizards are too prescriptive and too many steps 17:16:06 JR: ATAG had wizards but we moved to what we ended up removing the item I described earlier. 17:17:06 KP: If you provide documentation and let them save and share and let them change outside the user agent, then this is covered. 17:17:51 JA: Summarized discussion. 17:18:08 JA: In general this seems to be covered. 17:18:38 +Greg_Lowney 17:18:58 SH: I understand the reasons for removing but the reasons this was there were also to help collect a bunch of settings that were scattered all around. 17:19:53 SH: I understand this but it can be tedious at times. There was a time when it took 13 steps to change a font in Internet Explorer took 13 steps. 17:21:19 kf: understands all Si points. would like to remove an SC. 17:22:21 SH: I have many instances where people find this too hard. 17:22:53 SH: In a practical sense I can understand why we might want to keep this around. 17:23:38 kp: there are good examples. 17:24:09 js: like JR proposal ...approve before comit 17:24:50 Group talking about approve before commit. 17:24:54 jr: do I have to have a commit when I changed the volume or font size...gets complicated 17:25:58 kp: how easy a wizard to implement. 17:26:49 kf: it is not trivial. depends on what setting you are going to change and where they come from. 17:27:47 JAllan_ has joined #ua 17:28:01 ... but what settings? 17:29:03 kf: slim to no chance that the internet settings will be reworked 17:30:05 jr: provides scenario using IE and wizard for a11y settings or advanced settings. seems like overkill. 17:30:38 js: what if we stick to just display settings. 17:30:47 jr: why just display 17:32:06 gl: not convinced we need this 17:32:20 kf: either keep as is or kick it out. 17:33:25 gl: if we keep it. then use wording for accessibility preferences that we have defined elsewhere 17:33:36 ... needed to comply with UAAG20. 17:33:47 jr: sure, but isn't this still overkill 17:33:59 gl: at AAA is it harmful. 17:34:20 jr: at CR will need implementations, 17:34:29 js: that will be hard to do. 17:34:56 rrsagent, make minutes 17:34:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html JAllan 17:35:27 It does not need to replace normal UI, and could be done as an add-it. 17:36:03 proposal: remive 2.7.8 AAA from document 17:36:15 JR: +1 to remove 17:36:29 s/remive/remove 17:36:31 +1 17:36:34 -1 but will go with the group 17:36:37 +1 17:36:39 ~1 (I'm fine either way) 17:36:56 +1, it goes away. 17:37:03 kp: ~1 go with group 17:37:31 resolved: remove 2.7.8 from document 17:37:33 Resolved: 2.7.8 gets removed. 17:37:45 rrsagent, make minutes 17:37:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html kford 17:37:47 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:37:57 close action-719 17:37:57 ACTION-719 Locate a link to Jutta's work on SCORM for 2.7.8 Resources closed 17:38:00 zakim, agenda? 17:38:00 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:38:02 1. Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html [from JAllan] 17:38:02 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:38:02 3. remove Editor's Note: Add SC for built-in spell checking@@] from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:38:02 4. write summary for 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:38:02 5. remove action-611 from 3.2 [from JAllan] 17:38:10 zakim, close item 1 17:38:10 agendum 1, Action-719 2.7.8 preference wizard http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0115.html, closed 17:38:12 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:38:12 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:38:36 zakim, take up item 2 17:38:36 agendum 2. "rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html" taken up [from JAllan] 17:38:54 zakim, close item 3 17:38:54 agendum 3, remove Editor's Note: Add SC for built-in spell checking@@] from 3.2, closed 17:38:56 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:38:56 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:39:05 zakim, close item 5 17:39:05 agendum 5, remove action-611 from 3.2, closed 17:39:06 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:39:06 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 17:40:00 JA recaps message contents. 17:42:42 JR and JA go over minor editorial issues. 17:42:48 intent: Users with disabilities that need to use the accessibility features of 17:42:50 the user agent user interface can easily find descriptions of how to 17:42:51 use and configure the features to work with assistive technology. 17:42:53 These descriptions can be provided in the documentation or user 17:42:54 interface of the user agent or by the underlying platform, if the 17:42:56 feature is in fact a service of that platform. 17:43:05 example 1: 17:43:22 Andromeda has a tremor that makes using the mouse efficiently 17:43:24 difficult. She prefers using keyboard. Andromeda decides to explore 17:43:25 using a new browser. Opening Help, she finds a section entitled 17:43:27 "Browser Features Supporting Accessibility", a vendor provides a 17:43:29 detailed description of user agent features which provide 17:43:30 accessibility. In the Accessibility section she finds an item called 17:43:32 Keyboard Shortcuts which lists all of the functions and commands 17:43:33 available from the keyboard. 17:45:31 We should add to Intent that ideally it should be in documentation easily and freely available to end users, or those who need it. 17:46:09 The example would be slightly easier to read with a minor edit: "Andromeda has a tremor that makes using the mouse efficiently 17:46:11 difficult, so she prefers using keyboard. She decides..." 17:46:43 intent: Users with disabilities that need to use the accessibility features of 17:46:44 the user agent user interface can easily find descriptions of how to 17:46:46 use and configure the features, including assistive techlogy. 17:46:47 These descriptions can be provided in the documentation or user 17:46:49 interface of the user agent or by the underlying platform, if the 17:46:51 feature is in fact a service of that platform. The documentation is easily available to the end user. 17:47:44 "It is strongly recommended that the documentation be easily available to end users, and without charge." 17:48:26 intent: Users with disabilities that need to use the accessibility features of 17:48:27 the user agent user interface can easily find descriptions of how to 17:48:29 use and configure the features, including assistive technology. 17:48:30 These descriptions can be provided in the documentation or user 17:48:32 interface of the user agent or by the underlying platform, if the 17:48:33 feature is in fact a service of that platform. It is strongly recommended that the documentation be easily available to end users, and without charge. 17:49:53 Group talking more about SC. 17:50:25 In the first two bullet items, the parts after the colons are pretty redundant to the "handle" before the colon. But not major. 17:51:21 We could say that end-user features are in end-user documentation or the UI, while features only relevant to developers can be in developer documentation. 17:51:43 (d) Not used by authors: The feature is not used directly by authors (e.g., passing information to a platform accessibility service). 17:52:56 for UAAG (d) Not used by end users: The feature is not used directly by end users (e.g., passing information to a platform accessibility service). 17:56:23 kf: what is the definition of developer, web developer, or AT developer 17:56:53 (d) Developer documentation: features only relevant for developers (e.g. how information is exposed to assistive technology) may be documented in developer documentation. 17:57:14 4.1.3 Accessible Alternative: 17:57:44 kf: go with previous proposal. then add greg's (d) in 4 and create new SC 17:58:32 also e.g. "how nested user agents determine accessibility settings of the host". 17:59:25 kf: could create a new SC in programmatiic access. seems the most practical way to move forward 18:03:02 proposed: 18:03:07 3.3.2 Describe Accessibility Features: 18:03:09 For each user agent feature that is used to meet UAAG 2.0, at least 18:03:10 one of the following is true: (Level A) 18:03:12 (a) Described in the documentation: Use of the feature is explained in the user agents's documentation; or 18:03:13 (b) Described in the interface: Use of the feature is explained in the user agent user interface; or 18:03:15 (c) Platform service: The feature is a service provided by an underlying platform. 18:03:16 (d) Not used by authors: The feature is not used directly by authors (e.g., passing information to a platform accessibility service). 18:03:18 Intent of Success Criterion 3.3.2 : 18:03:20 intent: Users with disabilities that need to use the accessibility features of the user agent user interface can easily find descriptions of how to 18:03:22 use and configure the features, including assistive technology. These descriptions can be provided in the documentation or user 18:03:23 interface of the user agent or by the underlying platform, if the feature is in fact a service of that platform. It is strongly recommended that the documentation be easily available to end users, and without charge. 18:03:25 Examples of Success Criterion 3.3.2 : 18:03:26 Andromeda has a tremor that makes using the mouse efficiently difficult, so she prefers using keyboard. She decides Andromeda decides to explore 18:03:29 using a new browser. Opening Help, she finds a section entitled "Browser Features Supporting Accessibility", a vendor provides a 18:03:32 detailed description of user agent features which provide accessibility. In the Accessibility section she finds an item called 18:03:35 Keyboard Shortcuts which lists all of the functions and commands available from the keyboard. 18:03:37 A user is exploring the menus of a user agent and finds a feature named Use My Style Sheet. Activating the feature, the user quickly 18:03:40 learns that this feature allows custom CSS stylesheets to be created to help make web content more accessible. 18:03:46 -Jeanne 18:03:52 new (d) (d) Not used by end users: The feature is not used directly by end users (e.g., passing information to a platform accessibility service). 18:04:48 "a vendor provides" to "where the vendor provides" 18:05:36 Andromeda has a tremor that makes using the mouse efficiently difficult, so she prefers using keyboard. She decides to explore using a new browser. Opening Help, she finds a section entitled "Browser Features Supporting Accessibility", where the vendor provides a detailed description of user agent features which provide accessibility. In the Accessibility section she finds an item called Keyboard 18:05:37 Shortcuts which lists all of the functions and commands available from the keyboard. 18:06:15 "Activating the feature, the user quickly" to "Activating the feature brings up a dialog box that not only allows her to install such a style sheet, but also explains an overview of the feature." 18:07:52 Group working on another example. 18:08:06 George is exploring the menus of a user agent and finds a feature named Use My Style Sheet. Activating the feature brings up a dialog box that not only allows her to install such a style sheet, but also explains an overview of the feature. 18:08:10 "e.g., passing information to a platform accessibility service" to "e.g. how the user agent passes information to assistive technology" 18:09:11 zakim, agenda? 18:09:11 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda: 18:09:13 2. rewrite 3.3.2 describe accessibility features http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0116.html [from JAllan] 18:09:13 4. write summary for 3.2 [from JAllan] 18:10:45 Summary: Users can have form submissions require confirmation (3.2.1), go back after navigating (3.2.2), and use spell-checking facilities (3.2.3). 18:11:23 Summary: Users can have form submissions require confirmation (3.2.1), go back after navigating (3.2.2), and have their text checked for spelling errors (3.2.3). 18:12:16 Resolved: Summary for 3.2 to be above wording. 18:13:11 proposed: 18:13:12 3.3.2 Describe Accessibility Features: 18:13:14 For each user agent feature that is used to meet UAAG 2.0, at least 18:13:15 one of the following is true: (Level A) 18:13:17 (a) Described in the documentation: Use of the feature is explained in the user agents's documentation; or 18:13:18 (b) Described in the interface: Use of the feature is explained in the user agent user interface; or 18:13:20 (c) Platform service: The feature is a service provided by an underlying platform. 18:13:21 (d) Not used by end users: The feature is not used directly by end users (e.g. how the user agent passes information to assistive technology) 18:13:23 Intent of Success Criterion 3.3.2 : 18:13:24 intent: Users with disabilities that need to use the accessibility features of the user agent user interface can easily find descriptions of how to use and configure the features, including assistive technology. These descriptions can be provided in the documentation or user interface of the user agent or by the underlying platform, if the feature is in fact a service of that platform. It is... 18:13:26 ...strongly recommended that the documentation be easily available to end users, and without charge. 18:13:27 Examples of Success Criterion 3.3.2 : 18:13:29 Andromeda has a tremor that makes using the mouse efficiently difficult, so she prefers using keyboard. She decides to explore using a new browser. Opening Help, she finds a section entitled "Browser Features Supporting Accessibility", where the vendor provides a detailed description of user agent features which provide accessibility. In the Accessibility section she finds an item called... 18:13:34 ...Keyboard Shortcuts which lists all of the functions and commands available from the keyboard. 18:13:37 George is exploring the menus of a user agent and finds a feature named Use My Style Sheet. Activating the feature brings up a dialog box that not only allows her to install such a style sheet, but also explains an overview of the feature. 18:14:54 Resolved: Use previous text for wording for 3.3.2 18:16:22 Action: JS to update document with resolved items from this week and publish new editor's draft. 18:16:22 Created ACTION-738 - Update document with resolved items from this week and publish new editor's draft. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-06-14]. 18:17:07 - +1.425.883.aaaa 18:17:09 -Kim_Patch 18:17:11 -Jan 18:17:11 -sharper 18:17:41 rrsagent, make minutes 18:17:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:19:46 -Greg_Lowney 18:19:57 zakim, please part 18:19:57 leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.425.883.aaaa, Jan, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, sharper, Greg_Lowney 18:19:57 Zakim has left #ua 18:20:32 chair: jimallan, kellyford 18:21:07 present: jim, jeanne, simon, kelly, jan, greg, kim 18:21:13 rrsagent, make minutes 18:21:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-minutes.html JAllan 18:22:29 rrsagent, please part 18:22:29 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-actions.rdf : 18:22:29 ACTION: JS to update document with resolved items from this week and publish new editor's draft. [1] 18:22:29 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/07-ua-irc#T18-16-22