13:57:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:57:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/01-wcag2ict-irc
13:57:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:57:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:57:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:18 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:18 <trackbot> Date: 01 June 2012
13:58:44 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:58:51 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:59:07 <Zakim> +Cooper
13:59:23 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012May/0017.html
13:59:24 <Zakim> +??P0
13:59:26 <MichaelC> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:59:31 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P0 is Mike_Pluke
13:59:31 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
13:59:46 <shadi> zakim, mute me
13:59:46 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:00:13 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
14:00:23 <mapluke> agenda+ Identify Scribe, discussion on what should be in the minutes
14:00:23 <mapluke> agenda+ Participation update -- Mike
14:00:23 <mapluke> agenda+ Finish Discussion on first survey results, starting with 1.4.5 Images of text <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY252012/results#xq13>
14:00:23 <mapluke> agenda+ Discussion of results of "Comments on SC 1.2.x and 3.3.4" Survey. <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results>
14:00:24 <mapluke> agenda+ Next survey available. Please complete by midnight Monday 4 June.
14:00:26 <mapluke> agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items;
14:00:27 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:28 <mapluke> adjourn
14:00:34 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:00:36 <MichaelC> agenda?
14:00:45 <MichaelC> drop item 6
14:00:47 <MichaelC> drop item 7
14:00:48 <MichaelC> drop item 8
14:00:51 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:01:00 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:01:04 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:01:14 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:24 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
14:01:24 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
14:02:14 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja
14:02:17 <MichaelC> scribe: Andi
14:02:30 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:03:52 <Alex> Alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:00 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:31 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:47 <MichaelC> regrest: Loïc_Martínez, Peter_Korn
14:04:54 <Zakim> +??P26
14:05:07 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P26 is Janina_Sajka
14:05:07 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:05:33 <Andi> scribe: Andi
14:05:38 <Andi> zakim, next item
14:05:38 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Identify Scribe, discussion on what should be in the minutes" taken up [from mapluke]
14:05:48 <Andi> zakim, close item 9
14:05:48 <Zakim> agendum 9, Identify Scribe, discussion on what should be in the minutes, closed
14:05:51 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:05:51 <Zakim> 10. Participation update -- Mike [from mapluke]
14:06:01 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:06:12 <Andi> zakim, close item 10
14:06:12 <Zakim> agendum 10, Participation update -- Mike, closed
14:06:13 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:06:13 <Zakim> 11. Finish Discussion on first survey results, starting with 1.4.5 Images of text <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY252012/results#xq13> [from mapluke]
14:07:50 <Andi> no remaining issues now that category of ICT in general has been removed
14:08:41 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept text for 1.4.5 as proposed
14:08:52 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:54 <Andi> zakim, next item
14:08:54 <Zakim> agendum 11. "Finish Discussion on first survey results, starting with 1.4.5 Images of text <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY252012/results#xq13>" taken up [from mapluke]
14:09:01 <Andi> zakim, close item 11
14:09:01 <Zakim> agendum 11, Finish Discussion on first survey results, starting with 1.4.5 Images of text <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY252012/results#xq13>, closed
14:09:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:09:04 <Zakim> 12. Discussion of results of "Comments on SC 1.2.x and 3.3.4" Survey. <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results> [from mapluke]
14:09:40 <Andi> 1.2.1 Audio only and video only (prerecorded) https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/MAY292012/results#xq7
14:10:39 <Andi> no remaining issues now that category of ICT in general has been removed
14:10:53 <Zakim> +Judy
14:11:01 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept text for 1.2.1 as proposed
14:12:03 <Andi> Captions 1.2.2
14:13:52 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:14:51 <Andi> general discussion about what to do when it seems something doesn't apply
14:15:33 <Andi> example of images - if don't have images, some think the SC is not applicable, but the assumption for WCAG is that if you don't have images then you comply with 1.1.1
14:16:53 <Alex> q+
14:16:54 <Zakim> +Pierce_Crowell
14:17:13 <BBailey> q+ to mention language from 508 about exception for “fundamental alteration”.
14:17:24 <Andi> ack gregg
14:17:25 <mapluke> q+
14:17:47 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:18:08 <Andi> general discussion about conformance when platform doesn't have features necessary to support the SC
14:18:15 <Andi> ack alex
14:18:45 <Zakim> +Al_Hoffman
14:19:16 <Andi> ack BBailey
14:19:16 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to mention language from 508 about exception for “fundamental alteration”.
14:20:17 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:21:38 <Andi> GV: if platform doesn't support, SC can't be met
14:22:03 <Pierce_> Pierce_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:22:19 <Andi> AL: when authoring, can't know what user agent, platform, AT user will have
14:22:43 <Andi> BB: 508 has exceptions for fundamental alteration and commercial non-availability
14:23:08 <Alex> q+
14:23:13 <Andi> ack gregg
14:23:37 <BBailey> q+ to say we distinguish between complying with the statute and conforming to the standard.
14:23:44 <Andi> ack Kiran
14:24:35 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:24:50 <Andi> GV: we have to create the rules for what makes something accessible to people with disabilities
14:25:07 <Andi> ack alex
14:25:41 <Pierce_> 40#
14:25:57 <Andi> BB: in regulatory context, there is a difference between compliance with the statute and compliance with the technical standard
14:26:01 <Pierce_> 41#
14:26:29 <Pierce_> q+
14:26:43 <Andi> ack bb
14:26:43 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to say we distinguish between complying with the statute and conforming to the standard.
14:26:46 <Andi> ack gregg
14:26:53 <BBailey> s/compliance with the technical standard/conformance to the technical standard/
14:26:57 <mapluke> q+
14:27:55 <Alex> q+
14:31:36 <Andi> q+
14:32:49 <Andi> ack Pierce
14:32:50 <Zakim> -Cooper
14:33:43 <Andi> PC: government can specify minimum system requirements 
14:33:56 <shadi> q+ to ask how this discussion relates to the concept of "accessibility supported"
14:35:10 <Alex> q-
14:35:20 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:35:24 <Andi> q-
14:36:05 <BBailey> trackbot, status?
14:37:21 <Andi> ack Kiran
14:38:00 <shadi> q-
14:39:02 <Andi> q+
14:39:59 <Andi> q+ Al_Hoffman
14:40:40 <Zakim> +Judy.a
14:40:42 <Andi> ack Andi
14:40:43 <Zakim> -Judy
14:41:30 <shadi> q+
14:41:36 <Andi> AS: the second paragraph speaks to the issue of "accessibility supported" which is a conformance issue that is applicable to all SC
14:42:02 <Andi> proposal to delete the second paragraph of the proposal
14:42:46 <shadi> ack me
14:42:47 <Andi> ack Al
14:43:28 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:43:28 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:44:10 <Andi> RESOLUTION: accept text for 1.2.2 as amended (delete second paragraph)
14:44:26 <Andi> 1.2.3 Audio Descriptions or media alternatives (prerecorded)
14:44:28 <Zakim> -Judy.a
14:44:52 <shadi> [for record, agree with removing this paragraph for now but coming back to it later, probably when we come to discuss "accessibility support"]
14:45:31 <Andi> q+
14:46:14 <Andi> ack Andi
14:47:02 <Andi> proposal to remove the second paragraph and add note per Loïc's comment
14:47:46 <Andi> AS: definition of audio description has notes that explain this is also known by other terms such as "video description"
14:47:51 <mapluke> q+
14:48:20 <Zakim> +Judy
14:49:16 <mapluke> Note that WCAG 2.0 definition of Audio Description says that Audio Description is "Also called 'video description' and 'descriptive narration.'".
14:49:44 <janina> q+
14:50:13 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:50:29 <greggvanderheiden> ack m
14:50:47 <Andi> GV and MP: propose keeping the note because this term gets a lot of comments so even though there are notes in the definition, this is a good clarification
14:51:22 <greggvanderheiden> Note: Secondary or alternate audio tracks are commonly used for this purpose
14:51:43 <janina> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
14:52:00 <Andi> ack janina
14:53:34 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:53:34 <Zakim> Shadi was already muted, shadi
14:53:36 <mapluke> q+
14:53:59 <Andi> Document about how to do media accessibility on the web - excellent resource for WCAG but not for the WCAG2ICT document
14:54:06 <Andi> ack gregg
14:54:59 <Andi> ack Judy
14:55:51 <janina> q+
14:56:14 <Alex> q+
14:56:32 <Andi> ack mapluke
14:57:46 <Andi> JS: reference on media accessibility is being used in other non-web contexts such as cable
14:57:50 <Andi> ack j
14:58:28 <Andi> AL: lot of other standards we could reference, process question of how we are going to handle these
14:58:53 <mapluke> q+
14:58:58 <Andi> ack a
14:59:00 <Alex> q-
14:59:24 <Andi> GV: not within our scope to reference other standards
14:59:30 <Andi> ack m
15:01:46 <greggvanderheiden> FROM MEETING
15:01:47 <greggvanderheiden> Additional guidance when applying to Electronic Documents and Software Aspects of Products
15:01:48 <greggvanderheiden> This applies directly as written, and as described in  INTENT  from Understanding WCAG 2.0  (above).
15:01:49 <greggvanderheiden> Note1:  WCAG 2.0 definition of Audio Description says that Audio Description is "Also called 'video description' and 'descriptive narration.'".
15:01:50 <greggvanderheiden> Note2: Secondary or alternate audio tracks are commonly used for this purpose
15:02:12 <greggvanderheiden> Additional guidance when applying to Electronic Documents and Software Aspects of Products
15:02:12 <greggvanderheiden> This applies directly as written, and as described in  INTENT  from Understanding WCAG 2.0  (above).
15:02:13 <greggvanderheiden> Note1:  WCAG 2.0 definition of Audio Description says that Audio Description is "Also called 'video description' and 'descriptive narration.'".
15:02:14 <greggvanderheiden> Note2: Secondary or alternate audio tracks are commonly used for this purpose
15:02:38 <Andi> RESOLUTION: accept text for 1.2.3 as amended (add Gregg's note as edited by Loïc, add additional note about using primary or secondary audio channels, and delete second paragraph)
15:06:14 <Zakim> -Judy
15:08:44 <Andi> AH: back to 1.2.2 Captions - these are called "subtitles" in other contexts
15:08:53 <Andi> AS: definition of Captions says that in the notes
15:09:35 <Andi> GV: could add a note similar to what we did for 1.2.3 on audio description/video description
15:10:22 <Andi> action: Gregg to compose note on captions and subtitles for 1.2.2
15:10:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Compose note on captions and subtitles for 1.2.2 [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-06-08].
15:11:26 <Andi> 1.2.4 Captions (Live)
15:13:08 <Andi> GV: "live" is defined as information captured from real world events
15:13:31 <Andi> GV: not document and not software
15:14:45 <Andi> GV: if software plays CSPAN channel, that is coming from a third party who would be responsible for the captions
15:14:48 <Andi> ack Andi
15:14:59 <Pierce_> q+
15:15:07 <Andi> q+
15:15:51 <Andi> GV: software would play the captions but requirements on the player to be able to play the captions is beyond our scope
15:16:31 <Andi> PC: this requirement is really about doing something, not selling something 
15:16:37 <mapluke> q+
15:16:53 <Andi> ack p
15:19:03 <Andi> GV: contrasts software that just presents live content (baby cam) vs. live content that someone is selling such as Olympic coverage
15:20:47 <Alex> q+
15:20:54 <Andi> q-
15:22:56 <Andi> MP: need a note on scoping 
15:23:06 <Andi> q+
15:23:07 <Pierce_> q+
15:23:17 <Andi> ack m
15:23:28 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:23:38 <greggvanderheiden> ack alex
15:24:35 <Pierce_> q-
15:25:43 <Andi> q+ Al_Hoffman
15:26:03 <Andi> ack a
15:26:12 <Andi> ack Andi
15:26:13 <mapluke> q+
15:26:18 <Andi> q+ Al_Hoffman
15:27:25 <Andi> GV: this provision wouldn't apply when agency is purchasing software to do a live event (ex. training) but it would apply when the agency uses it
15:27:40 <Andi> ack g
15:29:04 <Andi> AH: lot of information provide for the web context, is there something else we need to add for people not operating in the web context
15:29:06 <Andi> ack m
15:29:09 <Andi> ack a
15:30:07 <Alex> q+
15:30:26 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:30:44 <Andi> proposal to put the same note from 1.2.2 in this provision
15:30:48 <Andi> ack a
15:31:12 <Andi> AL: written for one-way conversation, not meant for two-way conversations such as VoIP
15:31:35 <Pierce_> q+
15:31:49 <greggvanderheiden> sorry 
15:31:50 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:31:58 <greggvanderheiden> I am cut off can cannot sign back in
15:32:05 <greggvanderheiden> conference restricted
15:32:52 <Pierce_> q-
15:33:40 <Zakim> -Al_Hoffman
15:33:42 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
15:33:44 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
15:33:46 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:33:47 <Zakim> -Pierce_Crowell
15:33:49 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:33:50 <shadi> ack me
15:33:57 <Andi> zakim, bye
15:33:57 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Shadi, Cooper, Mike_Pluke, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Alex_Li, Kiran_Kaja, David_MacDonald,
15:33:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:34:00 <Zakim> ... Janina_Sajka, Judy, Pierce_Crowell, Al_Hoffman
15:34:04 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
15:34:04 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:34:06 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
15:34:07 <Andi> trackbot, end meeting
15:34:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:34:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/01-wcag2ict-minutes.html trackbot
15:34:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:34:13 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/01-wcag2ict-actions.rdf :
15:34:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Gregg to compose note on captions and subtitles for 1.2.2 [1]
15:34:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/06/01-wcag2ict-irc#T15-10-22
15:34:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees