13:24:18 RRSAgent has joined #rd 13:24:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/16-rd-irc 13:24:20 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:24:20 Zakim has joined #rd 13:24:22 Zakim, this will be 7394 13:24:22 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 13:24:23 Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference 13:24:23 Date: 16 May 2012 13:24:35 zakim, this is rdwg 13:24:35 shadi, I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be rdwg". 13:24:45 chair: Simon 13:25:07 regrets: Shawn, Giorgio, Yeliz 13:25:52 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0015.html 13:25:55 WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started 13:26:02 +??P12 13:26:10 zakim, ??P12 is me 13:26:10 +vivienne; got it 13:30:10 +Shadi 13:30:14 agenda? 13:30:17 shawn has joined #rd 13:30:19 Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) 13:30:19 Agenda+ Mobile Topic Update (Yeliz, Peter, Simon) 13:30:19 Agenda+ Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi) 13:30:20 Agenda+ Topic 3 Timelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline 13:30:22 Agenda+ Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013 (Simon) 13:30:24 Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): 13:30:26 https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ 13:30:28 Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) 13:30:55 +Shawn 13:31:04 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:31:04 On the phone I see vivienne, Shadi, Shawn 13:32:19 sharper has joined #rd 13:32:32 zakim, agenda? 13:32:32 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 13:32:34 1. Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [from shadi] 13:32:34 2. Mobile Topic Update (Yeliz, Peter, Simon) [from shadi] 13:32:34 3. Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi) [from shadi] 13:32:34 4. Topic 3 Timelines - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Topic_3_Timeline [from shadi] 13:32:34 5. Timelines / Schedule to 30th June 2013 (Simon) [from shadi] 13:32:35 6. Issues and Actions (Standing Item): [from shadi] 13:32:37 7. Any Other Business (Standing Item) [from shadi] 13:32:38 markel has joined #rd 13:33:00 zakim, mute me 13:33:00 vivienne should now be muted 13:33:03 peter has joined #rd 13:33:10 +??P16 13:33:22 zakim, ??P16 is sharper 13:33:22 +sharper; got it 13:33:35 christos has joined #rd 13:33:40 agenda? 13:34:04 +??P15 13:34:16 +??P17 13:34:16 zakim, ??P15 is me 13:34:17 +christos; got it 13:34:30 zakim, mute me 13:34:30 christos should now be muted 13:34:30 Zakim ??P17 is me 13:34:45 agenda 4 is Topic 3 Pre-call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html 13:34:47 +??P18 13:34:55 zakim, ??P17 is me 13:34:55 +peter; got it 13:34:56 zakim, agenda 4 is Topic 3 Pre-call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html 13:34:57 I don't understand you, shawn 13:35:02 zakim, ??P18 is markel 13:35:02 +markel; got it 13:35:05 item 4 is Topic 3 Pre-call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html 13:35:11 zakim, mute me 13:35:11 peter should now be muted 13:35:18 agenda 4 = Topic 3 Pre-call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html 13:35:31 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:35:31 On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Shadi, Shawn, sharper, christos (muted), peter (muted), markel 13:36:03 agenda+ Scientific Committee invitations http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0022.html 13:36:11 Hey Shadi I'm here :-) 13:36:21 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:36:21 On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Shadi, Shawn, sharper, christos (muted), peter (muted), markel 13:36:23 I can scribe :-) 13:36:24 go Peter!~ 13:36:34 scribe: peter 13:36:41 Zakim, take up item 1 13:36:41 agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from shadi] 13:36:42 zakim, close agendum 1 13:36:44 agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed 13:36:44 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 13:36:44 2. Mobile Topic Update (Yeliz, Peter, Simon) [from shadi] 13:36:55 zakim, take up next 13:36:55 agendum 2. "Mobile Topic Update (Yeliz, Peter, Simon)" taken up [from shadi] 13:37:09 go for it :-) 13:37:14 zakim, mute me 13:37:14 Shadi should now be muted 13:37:42 Simon: symposium update on status ... 13:37:49 reviews due monday (email) 13:38:00 …advocates should sign up 13:38:27 …timeline we have a rebuttal - may be able to skip based on acceptance of 6 papers 13:38:48 …this could save us some time if so 13:39:02 …update on Wednesday and where we're up to on the mobile topic 13:39:19 q+ 13:39:22 no, all seems okay to me 13:39:22 ack me 13:39:25 q+ 13:40:57 ISSUE: Mobile Topic - Scientific Committee Input - also combine with WAI CG 13:40:57 Created ISSUE-2 - Mobile Topic - Scientific Committee Input - also combine with WAI CG ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/issues/2/edit . 13:41:12 zakim, mute me 13:41:12 Shadi should now be muted 13:41:16 sorry scribe was ask for a moment :( 13:41:24 sounds good 13:41:32 ack p 13:41:33 simon: we need to start using this so we don't forget stuff 13:41:36 ack me 13:41:43 scribe: shadi 13:41:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility,%20http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile 13:42:06 peter: two wiki pages for the mobile symposium 13:42:14 ...do we need any updates to that? 13:42:18 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility 13:42:21 scribe: shawn 13:42:23 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile 13:42:23 shadi: scientific committe has lots of knowledge in this area. think of different modality for the symposium. also, bring to WAI CG, which will have input 13:42:29 scribe: peter 13:42:40 simon: need more work on 1st one 13:42:48 … mobile one looks good 13:43:07 … mobile accessibility needs more work 13:43:16 … more flesh on the bones needed 13:44:05 … need more background 13:44:17 …add comments from scientific community ... 13:44:24 q+ to ask if http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile was just the draft for the webpage -- in which case, that should be clearly noted 13:44:41 …this is the second draft 13:44:51 ack me 13:44:52 shawn, you wanted to ask if http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile was just the draft for the webpage -- in which case, that should be clearly noted 13:45:00 …we put a lot of work into this one and I think it is is good (Mobile) 13:45:11 shawn: that information is old news (Mobile) 13:45:21 simon: main page, metric one still has it there 13:45:44 +1 to shawn 13:45:45 shawn: need a link to latest version 13:45:46 This is an internal planning page. Please see the main Website Accessibility Metrics Symposium page 13:45:57 simon: benchmarking page also has this on it - something like that would do 13:46:07 …ok we can do that 13:46:12 zakim, mute me 13:46:12 Shawn should now be muted 13:46:15 zakim, mute me 13:46:15 peter should now be muted 13:46:43 ack me 13:46:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/cfp 13:47:09 here is the mail posting for the CFP: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2012AprJun/0013 13:47:11 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/ 13:48:46 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Mobile 13:49:05 simon: *updated wiki page for Mobile* 13:49:09 yup 13:49:15 Zakim, close up item 2 13:49:15 I don't understand 'close up item 2', peter 13:49:36 zakim, close item 2 13:49:36 agendum 2, Mobile Topic Update (Yeliz, Peter, Simon), closed 13:49:36 what is the command again? 13:49:37 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 13:49:37 3. Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi) [from shadi] 13:49:39 oh 13:49:46 zakim, take up item 3 13:49:46 Zakim, take up item 3 13:49:47 agendum 3. "Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi)" taken up [from shadi] 13:49:47 agendum 3. "Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi)" taken up [from shadi] 13:50:15 q+ 13:50:17 looks like its up to you Shawn :-) 13:50:28 q+ to suggest "Research Note on Web Accessibility Metrics" -> "Research Report on Web Accessibility Metrics" 13:50:31 markel: regarding research note 13:50:32 ack m 13:50:38 …working on improving the sections 13:50:44 q+ 13:50:48 …added proceeding sections etc. 13:51:02 …link to new version 13:51:05 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/note/ED-metrics-20120516 13:51:27 zakim, unmute me 13:51:27 Shawn was not muted, shawn 13:51:42 shawn: looks good (proceeding) 13:52:15 markel: have a few typos with author names 13:52:40 simon: I think its really nice. if we could ad to the referencing on how to.. 13:52:48 markel: that would be great 13:52:57 simon: need to decide how to cite this document 13:53:23 q? 13:53:24 …what's the process now? 13:53:38 …getting it approved etc. 13:53:40 ack me 13:53:40 shawn, you wanted to suggest "Research Note on Web Accessibility Metrics" -> "Research Report on Web Accessibility Metrics" 13:53:42 ack sha 13:54:13 shawn: suggest title change from * to research report on web accessibility .. don't need to have note type and I think research report would be stronger 13:54:33 markel: I'm accustomed to it but whatever you decide I also like research note 13:54:49 simon: technical note or technical report 13:54:50 the type of document is a "W3C Working Group Note" 13:54:55 markel: we can go ahead with this 13:55:17 shawn: since establishing for the future would be good to come up with something now 13:55:27 I'm okay with either 13:55:29 simon: sure and I'll get that sent off 13:55:48 …not a technical report or better a research report? 13:55:53 …what do you think is stronger? 13:55:58 I like research 13:56:01 markel: I like research report 13:56:05 research report 13:56:08 +1 to "research" 13:56:08 …since we're the RD group 13:56:15 simon: every likes research report 13:56:18 +1 rp 13:56:37 shawn: in email note type of document is a W3C working note 13:56:54 simon: I think this looks excellent! 13:57:04 …(metrics note) 13:57:07 [agree that "Research Note ... WG Note" is a little confusing, especially to those who speak W3C jargon] 13:57:08 s/ is a W3C working note/is a "W3C Working Group Note" 13:57:23 :-) 13:57:29 :-) 13:57:36 q? 13:57:39 ack me 13:58:18 shadi: cudos to the editors 13:58:31 thanks Shadi 13:58:33 …content is really great work 13:58:43 …set a nice bar for the next symposium 13:59:22 …regarding process, I'll make those edits to authors and other simple edits, so long as we have a WG decision 13:59:28 …for example the title change 14:00:01 …then we need to record in a next meeting that we have a consensus from a majority of the participants in good standing 14:00:16 …then I can proceed with the publication process 14:00:27 …only some of the marking will change 14:00:49 …different groups do this differently on determining consensus 14:01:11 …several possibilities to do this 14:01:25 …Simon it's up to you how to do this 14:01:27 I would do the thing which is faster 14:01:37 ack me 14:01:46 simon: I'll look at the pros and cons and of the different possibilities 14:01:58 shadi: I have a few past surveys that can be reused 14:02:04 simon: good 14:02:16 shawn: I prefer WBS or email 14:02:32 …everyone's answers are recorded and people not on the call can voice their support 14:03:03 shadi: I've seen WBS does seem more formal with better results 14:03:34 …email is another possibility with an email about speaking up now .. 14:03:42 ….but I prefer WBS 14:04:32 …director needs to approve each publication 14:04:43 …takes a couple of days 14:05:15 …probably 2 weeks for full approval (?) 14:05:18 q+ 14:05:53 markel: I like simons suggestion about putting bib text on top of each paper 14:06:01 q+ 14:06:06 …improves citing 14:06:06 ack m 14:06:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/paper1/ 14:06:29 ack me 14:06:47 shadi: I can do this (bib text), do we want to add this after the reference or where? 14:06:57 markel: I would put it on top of the paper 14:07:00 simon: I agree 14:07:12 I'd also like it on the top 14:07:13 …front and centre very easy to reference 14:07:40 …the research report itself where we have the appendix is their anyway to put this citation at the top somewhere? or 14:07:52 shadi: what we have in appendix? 14:08:20 simon: how to cite the document itself - is it possible to add this so it doesn't get missed (eg. to the status of the document) 14:08:25 shadi: a little unusual 14:08:43 shawn: could we add it another section - how to cite this document? 14:09:01 simon: could go up with the editors section near the top 14:09:15 …would like near as top but without breaking any W3 rules 14:09:22 shadi: I know of an alternate version 14:09:49 …other wise the front matter of the document is strictly checked against the publication rules for consistency 14:10:00 …will double check if we can have this somewhere earlier 14:10:07 …WCAG did something similar 14:10:19 …I'll double check that 14:10:21 yes, thanks Shadi 14:11:04 action: shadi to check moving "how to cite this document" to the top of the research note 14:11:05 Created ACTION-21 - Check moving "how to cite this document" to the top of the research note [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-05-23]. 14:11:23 action: shadi to add bibtex information to each paper 14:11:23 Created ACTION-22 - Add bibtex information to each paper [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-05-23]. 14:11:27 ACTION: Shawn add to http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design BibTex 14:11:27 Created ACTION-23 - Add to http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/rd/SP-design BibTex [on Shawn Henry - due 2012-05-23]. 14:11:34 shadi: back to the papers 14:11:51 …right next to the title we have a note about the contribution to the symposium 14:12:03 ..perhaps change it so we can add citing info here 14:12:19 that sounds good to me 14:12:24 …something temporary now until we have the new design in place 14:12:52 simon: so long as people can cite immediately and change later when we get the new design - thats fine with me 14:13:04 shadi: I'll work with shawn on this and discuss with the group next week 14:13:12 zakim, close item 3 14:13:12 agendum 3, Current W3C Note Status (Giorgio, Markel, Josh, Shadi), closed 14:13:15 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:13:15 4. Topic 3 Pre-call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html 14:13:24 zakim, mute me 14:13:24 Shadi should now be muted 14:13:49 Simon: we should be talking about the pre call now 14:13:59 …with a view to release this pre-call 14:14:04 action: shadi to work with shawn on updating the highlight note at the top of the paper contributions 14:14:04 Created ACTION-24 - Work with shawn on updating the highlight note at the top of the paper contributions [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2012-05-23]. 14:14:13 regrets- shawn 14:14:30 …look at the pre cal with the above url and the other thing to do is whether or not to release internal to the W3C or to all the other channels 14:18:00 ok 14:18:06 ok 14:18:28 shawn: 1) relation to easy to read 14:18:44 …potential topic overlap with easy to read 14:19:16 …email some issue with combining text customization or not 14:19:31 …one issue is timing, where easy to read hasn't which would delay the announcement 14:19:52 …another issue is the focus on text customization if we combined it, it may get over shadowed 14:20:21 …question back in march of whether enough submissions have 10 yes and 4 might 14:20:35 regrets+ Klaus 14:20:49 …another potential for chairs if they want to develop easy to read and propose it as the next symposium 14:21:00 …if so we could note this as coming up next 14:21:12 simon: 1) combination of easy to rease 14:21:16 q+ 14:21:22 ..how many people supper this? 14:21:23 ack me 14:21:30 q+ 14:21:32 ack me 14:22:04 vivian: understand what shawn was saying but I think a lot of overlap exists between the two topics 14:22:30 s/vivian/vivienne 14:22:52 shawn: vivian I think that their related that it may make sense to do them one after the other 14:23:07 …text customization has a specific focus 14:23:33 …while they have relation they may compliment each other nicely by going one after the other 14:23:58 …klaus said it would be good to have it one after the other, then came back with 3 ideas for symposiums 14:24:05 ack me 14:24:08 zakim, mute me 14:24:08 vivienne should now be muted 14:24:31 shadi: on one side shawn convinced me that content wise text cost. is a topic on its own 14:24:38 …related to certain types of disabilities 14:24:53 …on the other hand the more focus it is to get sufficient contributions 14:25:00 ..trouble with this in the past 14:25:31 …in previous discussions with andrea she has concern that having separate symposiums may draw away participation 14:26:18 is it possible that the same authors would be involved in both? 14:26:33 …while having next symposium can announce the next - to have a pre announcement 14:26:42 zakim, mute me 14:26:42 Shadi should now be muted 14:26:46 simon: I agree that that might be a good idea 14:26:57 …would like to make a decision on the topic 14:27:17 q+ 14:27:30 ack ma 14:27:53 markel: if we have 2 symposiums, we may postpone the queued one 14:27:58 simon: no decision yet 14:28:14 …question now is do we want to split these topics up 14:28:54 …based on submissions etc. 14:29:51 +.075 14:29:55 …proposal that text customization runs on its own (+1 if yes) 14:30:00 +1 to text customization on it's own 14:30:13 +0.75 14:30:22 sorry, really not sure - leaning towards -1 14:30:25 zakim, is on the phone? 14:30:25 I don't understand your question, shawn. 14:30:26 .5 leaning towards combining 14:30:29 -1 14:30:36 -1 14:30:46 Shadi only integers :-) 14:30:51 lol 14:31:19 shawn: my concern is the points I've mentioned 14:31:29 …would like to hear more about the -1's 14:31:39 my rationale: we should try to get as much submissions as possible 14:31:51 considering the decline in submissions from symposium 1 to 2 14:32:03 …one issue is timing and the other is that text cust. not get overshadowed 14:32:18 I think there is a important overlap between the two... 14:32:18 [respondint to markel: topic 2 was broader than topic 1!] 14:32:20 q+ 14:32:28 ack me 14:32:40 s/respondint/responding 14:32:48 q+ 14:32:50 q+ 14:32:54 zakim, mute me 14:32:54 peter should now be muted 14:32:55 (I lost audio connection)... 14:32:59 ack me 14:33:08 ack m 14:33:11 peter: may lose easy to read in the future 14:33:25 markel: when you have 14 ppl waiting to submit we try to max the submissions 14:33:39 …some are likely to get rejected 14:33:48 …would like to see the relationship between two topics 14:34:14 shawn: second bit is for readability 14:34:23 …the title 14:34:48 shadi: not convinced that the latter two arguments is the only factor in getting more topics 14:34:59 denitely 14:35:03 s/topcs/submission/ 14:35:03 definitely 14:35:13 -christos 14:35:13 s/topics/submissions/ 14:35:30 shadi: to peter's point we can get to easy to read 14:35:41 …deserves its own topic 14:36:31 …they are related topics but we can talk about how they relate and what we want to get out of the two separate options 14:37:07 simon: can I make a suggestion, put a join CFP with both topics and run them right after the next 14:37:15 …nothing will be overshadowing the other 14:37:23 I really like Simon's idea. If we get tons of submissions, then we split it, if we don't, then run them together 14:37:24 shadi: like it 14:37:37 …broad call to attract a lot of people 14:38:10 simon: continue topic 4/5 will just run in its place 14:38:19 …mark el's concern will be addressed 14:38:30 +1.25 to simon's idea ;) 14:38:33 makes me happy 14:38:33 ..shawn's concern will be addressed since separate topics 14:38:51 shawn: can we get the people to edit the other one asap? 14:39:17 simon: could pre call in and have a couple of topics being both - a light touch pre call 14:39:25 …then do a more thorough one 14:39:55 ..don't want to delay it - max next week if other's can't do it 14:40:13 shawn: with a pre call do we need to have the dates and other info set? 14:40:45 simon: in the pre call only need to give an overview of background etc. 14:41:00 ..then move to a bigger discussion with the chairs 14:41:20 ..pre call is just an email to the coordination group 14:41:34 ..and email lists on the wiki 14:42:07 shawn: ok - happy to draft the framework but will need content 14:42:18 …from klaus and andrea 14:42:26 simon: could you talk to them? 14:42:30 shadi: yes 14:43:03 ..shawn can you get the pre call started 14:43:05 shawn: yes 14:43:20 simon: can we delay and decide next week about the pre call 14:43:23 shadi: agreed 14:43:41 okay, good night 14:43:54 Would love for RDWG participants to comment over the next few days on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0023.html & http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2012May/0022.html 14:44:17 (cheers this scribing is tough work :) 14:44:27 bye :) 14:44:30