17:02:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #text
17:02:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/08-text-irc
17:03:05 <Judy> zakim, room for 10?
17:03:06 <Zakim> ok, Judy; conference Team_(text)17:03Z scheduled with code 2119 (A11Y) for 60 minutes until 1803Z
17:03:11 <Zakim> Team_(text)17:03Z has now started
17:03:18 <Zakim> +??P2
17:03:39 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
17:04:10 <Zakim> +judy
17:04:51 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 31c: "Generator Exception" Transmitted to H5CCs http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Issue31cMetaGenerator
17:04:51 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 194 Update, Video Transcript: deadline is Friday 11 May
17:04:51 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 204 Developments, ARIA Hidden: [See "I-204 Summary" Below]
17:04:51 <Judy> agenda+ Issue 31b, Buggy Alts & Guidance: next steps
17:04:51 <Judy> agenda+ confirm next meeting; identify next scribe; adjourn
17:05:03 <David> David has joined #text
17:05:28 <David> Hi... phone says conference restricted... it's 2119 Right?
17:06:04 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
17:06:30 <Judy> Chair: Janina
17:06:34 <Judy> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Text Alternatives Sub-Group
17:06:57 <David> scribe: David
17:08:44 <David> zakim, take up next item
17:08:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Issue 31c: "Generator Exception" Transmitted to H5CCs http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/Issue31cMetaGenerator" taken up [from Judy]
17:09:36 <David> 31c not picked up yet,  expect to hear back early next week 
17:10:19 <David> JB: expect reopen or feedback  on proposal, not an explanation why they are not reoping
17:10:49 <JF> s/reoping/reopening/
17:11:57 <JF> zakim, who's here?
17:11:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2, John_Foliot, judy, David_MacDonald
17:11:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, RRSAgent, Zakim, Judy, JF
17:12:07 <janina> janina has joined #text
17:12:51 <janina> zakim, next item
17:12:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 194 Update, Video Transcript: deadline is Friday 11 May" taken up [from Judy]
17:12:59 <JF> Issue 194?
17:13:25 <David> Janina, discussion at  face to face
17:15:40 <David> jf: F to F discussion,  no debate that it is a requirement.  some concern about ATTRANSCRIPT, kind of a proxy for LONGDESC almost... convinced them that the  no  change proposal is  unacceptable. .. but could discuss other solutions. .. maybe go the direction off IDREF... JF things it might be clunky... will explore expanding traack
17:15:57 <David> to include ATKIND Transcript 
17:17:54 <David> same contextual menu already used in Subtitle and caption... many people liked  it... contextual menu open to all users, no onscreen encombrance like a 'D' link... some argement that there should be a link on the page... JF will write it up... will ping sean hayes, 
17:18:09 <JF> s/ATTRANSCRIPT/@transcript/
17:18:28 <JF> s/ATKIND/@kind
17:18:28 <Judy> zakim, this will be WAI_PF(Text)
17:18:28 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, Judy
17:18:44 <Judy> zakim, don't worry about it.
17:18:44 <Zakim> I don't understand 'don't worry about it', Judy
17:19:17 <David> possible that transcripts could use timestamps but expect documents
17:20:47 <JF> @kind="metadata" is not defined to take time-stamped files
17:20:51 <Judy> s/31c not picked up yet,  expect to hear back early next week/ H5CCs have not read 31c yet; we expect to hear back by next monday/
17:20:57 <David> Janina, I think Cynthia described timed experimenting already happening. ... 
17:21:26 <David> jf: feels greater that metadata does not require timed data
17:21:29 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
17:21:29 <Zakim> I notice Team_(text)17:03Z has restarted
17:21:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2, John_Foliot, judy, David_MacDonald, Laura_Carlson
17:21:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, Judy, JF
17:21:55 <David> janina, expect the case where there is none and where there is timestamps.
17:22:02 <Judy> zakim, ??P2 is Janina
17:22:02 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
17:22:03 <laura> laura has joined #text
17:23:02 <David> zakim, take up next item
17:23:02 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 204 Developments, ARIA Hidden:" taken up [from See "I-204 Summary" Below]
17:23:09 <janina> zakim, next item
17:23:09 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, janina
17:24:08 <David> much progress. .. so chairs suggested we get into 204 ...  
17:24:43 <David> heard chairs say that change restricted UAs development in the future
17:26:05 <David> Janina: could we not change it.... APPLE think they could build DewcribedBY with semantics etc
17:26:43 <David> we should not restrict them
17:27:35 <David> jf: we removed restriction on browsers, general consensus that we should not do that 
17:29:03 <David> jf: useful for authors to hide bits of text offscreen it's when hiding lots of it.... RFC2119 says should exist good reason for ignoring content 
17:29:32 <David> jf: so this is the best advice we can give
17:30:42 <laura> John, thank you for disentangling the proposed the draft revisions from  the accessibilty task force concensus change proposal.
17:31:01 <David> jf: this is the best win we can get... we got together and felt it was good, ted, o'conner, JF, and cynthia, didn't save as version of a  there ...
17:31:50 <laura> It seems that we lost two important items: 1. Benjamin's example. and 2. Johns's note regarding length of text:.
17:31:56 <David> laura: we lost  Benjamen's example, and length of text
17:32:45 <David> JF: soe comments that this is more authoring guidance
17:33:06 <laura> example:<input id=f type=checkbox checked>
17:33:06 <laura> <label hidden for=f>
17:33:06 <laura> I do <strong>not</strong> want to receive marketing materials.
17:33:06 <laura> </label>
17:34:11 <David> jf: most authors won't go through HTML 5 for accessibility guidance, most will go to WCAG
17:35:40 <David> jf: when we left the room Friday, we had a good quarum, and amicable resolution on 204
17:36:08 <janina> q+
17:37:24 <David> jf: we have conformance issues such as not using headings, links, etc...
17:38:00 <David> so 204 should affect 30
17:38:32 <David> laura: concern that it will compromise 30
17:38:54 <JF> Q+ to say that this is not what is being said (lack of support)
17:40:53 <David> janina: describedby is not on the table, anymore for long or structured text, so Longdesc will be the only answer
17:41:31 <JF> ack janina
17:41:43 <janina> ack j
17:41:43 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to say that this is not what is being said (lack of support)
17:41:44 <David> I think new language puts us in a good place 
17:44:02 <Judy> q+
17:44:35 <David> jf: fruitful progress
17:46:25 <David> jb: have these explanations helped address concerns  Laura?
17:47:19 <David> jb: i'm finding explanations satisfactory? 
17:48:59 <David> Laura: yes they address my  concerns so far, I haven't read the document in detail
17:50:09 <David> jf: we extracted a few things, and have that captured,  I can send that  to you... we removed  two paragraphs and code example, 
17:51:05 <David> janina: can you send that to the list 
17:51:22 <David> I cleaned up my spelling and grammar 
17:51:54 <David> in the issue, but nothing else 
17:52:23 <David> jf: leif added a border, mathew fixed a link. ... minor changes
17:52:59 <David> janina: can we have a  48 hour (or 72 hr) consensus email
17:53:36 <David> later this week
17:53:36 <JF> I will send out an email to the list that outlines the changes we made to the V3 edits
17:54:46 <JF> essentially removing the statements that browsers shouldn't create accessible objects, the addition of RFC 2119 SHOULD NOT language, and the removal of the code example
17:54:50 <David> resolution: johnwill put out list changes Version 2  to 3,  a 48 hour consensus email.
17:56:15 <David> zakim, next item
17:56:15 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, David
17:56:26 <JF> Q?
17:56:30 <JF> ack judy
17:56:31 <Judy> ack ju
17:56:44 <David> zakim, next item
17:56:44 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Issue 31b, Buggy Alts & Guidance: next steps" taken up [from Judy]
17:56:59 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:56:59 <laura> I have to drop off the call now
17:57:17 <Zakim> -Laura_Carlson
17:58:35 <David> Janina, good summary of issues that David has presented...
18:01:38 <David> we should tag in a table... a column... remaining columns to pointers... anchor refs... to keep the start statements... we have a list of bugs for ones that were never filed...
18:07:47 <Judy> q+\
18:07:58 <Judy> q- \
18:08:00 <Judy> q+
18:20:11 <Judy> ack ju
18:32:37 <laura> laura has joined #text
18:33:22 <Zakim> -judy
18:36:09 <Zakim> -Janina
18:36:11 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
18:36:12 <Zakim> Team_(text)17:03Z has ended
18:36:12 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Foliot, judy, David_MacDonald, Laura_Carlson, Janina
19:30:12 <janina> janina has left #text
21:20:50 <janina> janina has joined #text
21:20:56 <janina> zakim, bye
21:20:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #text
21:21:07 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
21:21:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/08-text-minutes.html janina
21:21:41 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
21:21:48 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
21:21:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/08-text-minutes.html janina
21:54:56 <janina> agenda?
21:55:08 <janina> janina has left #text