IRC log of webapps on 2012-05-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:15:01 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #webapps
- 16:15:01 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc
- 16:15:07 [ArtB]
- Chair: Art, Charles
- 16:15:09 [anne]
- anne has joined #webapps
- 16:15:13 [ArtB]
- Scribe: Josh_Soref
- 16:15:20 [ArtB]
- ScribeNick: timeless
- 16:15:23 [ArtB]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting
- 16:16:21 [ArtB]
- Meeting: WebApps WG f2f Meeting
- 16:16:47 [ArtB]
- Present: Art_Barstow, Charles_McCathieNevile, Josh_Soref
- 16:17:11 [shan]
- shan has joined #webapps
- 16:17:18 [MikeSmith]
- MikeSmith has joined #webapps
- 16:17:54 [dglazkov]
- dglazkov has joined #webapps
- 16:18:00 [aklein]
- aklein has joined #webapps
- 16:18:07 [dglazkov]
- Present+ Dimitri_Glazkov
- 16:18:13 [PaulKinlan]
- PaulKinlan has joined #webapps
- 16:18:29 [Arnaud]
- Present+ Arnaud_Braud
- 16:18:36 [aklein]
- Present+ Adam_Klein
- 16:18:52 [timeless]
- scribe: timeless
- 16:18:52 [shan]
- Present+ Soonbo_Han
- 16:19:08 [timeless]
- present+ Josh_Soref
- 16:19:12 [ArtB]
- Present+ Mike_Smith
- 16:19:31 [timeless]
- s/scribe: timeless//
- 16:19:35 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:19:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:19:39 [PaulKinlan]
- Present+ Paul_Kinlan
- 16:19:43 [timeless]
- Zakim, who is on the call?
- 16:19:43 [Zakim]
- sorry, timeless, I don't know what conference this is
- 16:19:44 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see PaulKinlan, aklein, dglazkov, MikeSmith, shan, anne, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, tantek, Arnaud, plh, dveditz, rogerk, davidb, Dashiva, Lachy, karl, heycam|away, kennyluck,
- 16:19:44 [Zakim]
- ... gavin, trackbot, mounir, jgraham, logbot, scottmg, krijnh, decadance, ed, lgombos, rektide, paul___irish, hober, gsnedders, Hixie, timeless, dom
- 16:20:09 [PaulKinlan]
- Present+ PaulKinlan
- 16:20:14 [chaals]
- chaals has joined #webapps
- 16:20:44 [chaals]
- zakim, this is RWC
- 16:20:44 [Zakim]
- sorry, chaals, I do not see a conference named 'RWC' in progress or scheduled at this time
- 16:20:47 [Travis]
- Travis has joined #webapps
- 16:20:54 [chaals]
- zakim, this is web
- 16:20:54 [Zakim]
- chaals, I see IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be web".
- 16:21:07 [chaals]
- zakim, this is IA_Webapps
- 16:21:07 [Zakim]
- chaals, I see IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be IA_Webapps".
- 16:21:21 [chaals]
- zakim, this will be IA_Webapps
- 16:21:21 [Zakim]
- ok, chaals; I see IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM scheduled to start 21 minutes ago
- 16:21:57 [Russell_Berkoff]
- Russell_Berkoff has joined #webapps
- 16:22:28 [plh]
- Present+ plh
- 16:22:30 [Travis]
- Present+ Travis_Leithead
- 16:22:30 [MikeSmith]
- present+ MikeSmith
- 16:22:31 [chaals]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:22:31 [Zakim]
- IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM has not yet started, chaals
- 16:22:32 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Russell_Berkoff, Travis, chaals, PaulKinlan, aklein, dglazkov, MikeSmith, shan, anne, RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, tantek, Arnaud, plh, dveditz, rogerk, davidb, Dashiva,
- 16:22:32 [Zakim]
- ... Lachy, karl, heycam|away, kennyluck, gavin, trackbot, mounir, jgraham, logbot, scottmg, krijnh, decadance, ed, lgombos, rektide, paul___irish, hober, gsnedders, Hixie,
- 16:22:32 [rniwa]
- rniwa has joined #webapps
- 16:22:33 [Zakim]
- ... timeless, dom
- 16:22:34 [anne]
- Present+ anne
- 16:22:36 [glenn]
- glenn has joined #webapps
- 16:22:43 [anne]
- Present+ odinho
- 16:22:50 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:23:02 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:23:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:23:10 [glenn]
- Present+ glenn
- 16:23:14 [krisk]
- krisk has joined #webapps
- 16:23:27 [tross]
- tross has joined #webapps
- 16:23:29 [timeless]
- Topic: Welcome and Agenda
- 16:23:53 [rafaelw]
- rafaelw has joined #webapps
- 16:24:00 [Russell_Berkoff]
- Present+ Russell_Berkoff(Samsung)
- 16:24:16 [rafaelw]
- Present+ Rafael_Weinstein
- 16:24:39 [tross]
- Present+ Tony Ross
- 16:25:01 [krisk]
- Present+ Kris Krueger (krisk)
- 16:25:16 [timeless]
- ArtB: When you do introductions, please indicate if you are not a WG member
- 16:25:30 [timeless]
- plh: as the charter has been reupped, most people are not WG members
- 16:25:39 [ericu]
- ericu has joined #webapps
- 16:25:49 [timeless]
- chaals: if you were a WG member and haven't reupped, please nag your AC rep
- 16:25:54 [ericu]
- Present+ EricU
- 16:26:00 [timeless]
- ArtB: Josh_Soref is a fantastic scribe, he works for RIM
- 16:26:02 [timeless]
- ... RIM is not a member
- 16:26:12 [plh]
- --> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/42538/status WG participation status
- 16:26:20 [timeless]
- ... when you speak for the first time, please introduce yourself
- 16:26:21 [scheib]
- scheib has joined #webapps
- 16:26:39 [timeless]
- chaals: when Josh_Soref says stop, you have to stop, because you'll be lost otherwise
- 16:26:45 [scheib]
- Present+ Vincent_Scheib
- 16:26:47 [timeless]
- chaals: I'm chaals, Opera, I'm a chair
- 16:26:57 [timeless]
- ArtB: I'm ArtB, from Nokia, I'm a chair
- 16:27:16 [timeless]
- PaulKinlan: I'm PaulKinlan from Google, observer
- 16:27:31 [timeless]
- ericu: I'm ericu from Google, I'm a member
- 16:27:39 [timeless]
- glenn: glenn, Cox, member
- 16:27:56 [chaals]
- s/observer/registered as observer, now member/
- 16:28:09 [timeless]
- Dan_Druta: Dan Druta, AT&T, member
- 16:28:31 [timeless]
- Arnaud: Arnaud Braud, France Telecom
- 16:28:46 [timeless]
- Bryan: Bryan Sullivan, AT&T, member
- 16:28:51 [timeless]
- s/Telecom/Telecom, member/
- 16:28:56 [bryan]
- bryan has joined #webapps
- 16:29:04 [timeless]
- Russell_Berkoff: Russell Berkoff, Samsung, Observer
- 16:29:07 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:29:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
- 16:29:12 [timeless]
- aklein: Adam Klein, Google, Observer
- 16:29:13 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make log Public
- 16:29:23 [timeless]
- rafaelw: Rafael Weinstein, Google, Observer
- 16:29:33 [timeless]
- tross: Tony Ross, Microsoft, Member
- 16:29:52 [timeless]
- rniwa: Ryosuke Niwa, Google, Member
- 16:30:05 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: Mike Smith, W3C Team, Member
- 16:30:09 [bryan]
- present+ Bryan_Sullivan
- 16:30:10 [rniwa_]
- rniwa_ has joined #webapps
- 16:30:10 [timeless]
- ... the first one to rejoin
- 16:30:42 [timeless]
- paulc: Paul Cotton, Microsoft, Chair of HTML WG, your host
- 16:30:48 [timeless]
- anne: Anne, Opera, Member
- 16:31:13 [timeless]
- ordinho: Odin Horthe Omdal, Opera, Member
- 16:31:26 [timeless]
- Travis: Travis Leithead, Microsoft, Member
- 16:31:34 [DanD]
- DanD has joined #webapps
- 16:31:53 [timeless]
- shan: Soonbo Han, LG Electronics, just joined [and was dropped by recharter]
- 16:32:02 [timeless]
- ArtB: there's an Action for someone to bug ACs for rejoins
- 16:32:10 [chaals]
- ACTION: chaals to bug AC reps of ex-members to re-join after new charter
- 16:32:10 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-643 - Bug AC reps of ex-members to re-join after new charter [on Charles McCathieNevile - due 2012-05-08].
- 16:32:31 [timeless]
- magnus: Magnus Olsson, Ericsson, Member (need to rejoin)
- 16:32:40 [timeless]
- krisk: Kris K, Microsoft, Member
- 16:32:45 [magnus]
- magnus has joined #webapps
- 16:33:01 [timeless]
- plh: Philipe Le Hegaret, W3C Team, Microsoft
- 16:33:14 [timeless]
- scheib: Vincent Scheib, Google, Member
- 16:33:26 [plh]
- s/, Microsoft/, Member/
- 16:33:27 [timeless]
- dglazkov: Dimitri Glazkov, Google, Member
- 16:33:43 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:33:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:34:06 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:34:06 [Zakim]
- IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM has not yet started, MikeSmith
- 16:34:07 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see magnus, DanD, rniwa, bryan, scheib, ericu, rafaelw, tross, krisk, glenn, Russell_Berkoff, Travis, chaals, PaulKinlan, aklein, dglazkov, MikeSmith, shan, anne,
- 16:34:07 [Zakim]
- ... RRSAgent, Zakim, ArtB, tantek, Arnaud, plh, dveditz, rogerk, davidb, Dashiva, Lachy, karl, heycam|away, kennyluck, gavin, trackbot, mounir, jgraham, logbot, scottmg, krijnh,
- 16:34:09 [Zakim]
- ... decadance, ed, lgombos, rektide, paul___irish, hober, gsnedders, Hixie, timeless, dom
- 16:34:18 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, start meeting
- 16:34:18 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'start meeting', MikeSmith
- 16:34:31 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, list
- 16:34:31 [Zakim]
- I see Team_(hcls)14:28Z, SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM active
- 16:34:33 [Zakim]
- also scheduled at this time are Team_(a11y-bugs)16:00Z, SW_RIF()11:00AM, Team_(aapi)16:03Z, XML_ET-TF()11:00AM, IA_WebApps(F2F)12:00PM
- 16:34:37 [glenn]
- Present+ Glenn_Adams (glenn)
- 16:34:42 [timeless]
- s/Kris Krueger (krisk)/Kris_Krueger_(krisk)/
- 16:34:52 [DanD]
- Present+ Dan_Druta
- 16:34:55 [MikeSmith]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 16:34:57 [timeless]
- s/Glenn_Adams (glenn)/Glenn_Adams_(glenn)/
- 16:34:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:35:00 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be DOM3
- 16:35:00 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 16:35:01 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web Applications Working Group Teleconference
- 16:35:01 [trackbot]
- Date: 01 May 2012
- 16:35:04 [magnus]
- present Magnus_Olsson (magnus)
- 16:35:05 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:35:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:35:11 [timeless]
- Topic: Agenda
- 16:35:16 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:35:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 16:35:19 [timeless]
- ArtB: We always preallocate an item or two
- 16:35:27 [timeless]
- ... and then figure out the rest as we meet
- 16:35:36 [timeless]
- ... we have a couple of topics
- 16:35:47 [timeless]
- ... we had penciled Intents for 1-2pm
- 16:35:58 [timeless]
- ... James was going to manage that
- 16:36:21 [timeless]
- s/James/James_Hawkins/
- 16:36:46 [timeless]
- paulc: The preallocated name badges were to help the secretary
- 16:36:51 [Travis]
- Travis has joined #webapps
- 16:36:52 [magnus]
- present+ Magnus_Olsson
- 16:36:52 [timeless]
- ... just register at the desk
- 16:36:57 [timeless]
- ... if you have problems, let me know
- 16:37:16 [timeless]
- ArtB: Here is the list of potential topics
- 16:37:19 [timeless]
- ... most of them I added
- 16:37:25 [timeless]
- ... (in alphabetical order)
- 16:37:32 [timeless]
- ... and then dglazkov added components
- 16:37:39 [timeless]
- ... and bryan added server sent events
- 16:37:41 [anne]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting
- 16:37:49 [anne]
- ^^ meeting agenda
- 16:37:52 [MikeSmith]
- agenda: http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting
- 16:37:54 [timeless]
- ArtB: WebAppsSec has CORS on its agenda for tomorrow morning
- 16:38:04 [timeless]
- ... they had allocated half an hour for LC CORS
- 16:38:11 [Velmont]
- Velmont has joined #webapps
- 16:38:16 [MikeSmith]
- Jonas Sicking has entered the fray
- 16:38:17 [timeless]
- ... 9:45-10:15
- 16:38:29 [timeless]
- present+ Jonas_Sicking
- 16:38:42 [timeless]
- chaals: How many people are interested in CORS?
- 16:38:50 [timeless]
- [ Quite a few hands rise ]
- 16:39:01 [timeless]
- chaals: does anyone object to bringing them in here?
- 16:39:05 [timeless]
- [ No objections ]
- 16:39:17 [timeless]
- ACTION ArtB to talk to WebAppsSec about a joint slot
- 16:39:17 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-644 - Talk to WebAppsSec about a joint slot [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 16:39:25 [timeless]
- s/slot/slot for CORS LC/
- 16:39:30 [timeless]
- chaals: Welcome sicking
- 16:39:57 [timeless]
- sicking: Jonas_Sicking, I'm the late jonas sicking, Mozilla. Not The Late Jonas Sicking, just late
- 16:40:10 [timeless]
- chaals: Any other topics not in the wiki?
- 16:40:27 [timeless]
- scheib: I spoke briefly with ArtB
- 16:40:36 [timeless]
- ... I'm the editor of the Pointer Block specification
- 16:40:40 [timeless]
- ... i'm new to editing
- 16:40:47 [timeless]
- ... it's just been added to the charter
- 16:40:50 [timeless]
- q+ chaals
- 16:40:58 [dglazkov]
- s/Pointer Block/Pointer Lock/
- 16:41:02 [timeless]
- ArtB: I think it would be useful for new specs that have been added
- 16:41:13 [timeless]
- ... that people are starting to implement
- 16:41:36 [timeless]
- chaals: I might put looking at the Charter/Schedule/New Specs
- 16:41:42 [timeless]
- ... either at the beginning. or at the end
- 16:41:51 [timeless]
- ... any preference?
- 16:42:00 [timeless]
- anne: it might be good to put them at the beginning
- 16:42:06 [timeless]
- bryan: I have a conflict for 11-1
- 16:42:14 [odinho]
- (my PC suddenly working after taking it apart and putting it together again)
- 16:42:14 [timeless]
- chaals: we won't put push there
- 16:42:23 [timeless]
- s/(my PC suddenly working after taking it apart and putting it together again)//
- 16:42:29 [timeless]
- chaals: going around the room
- 16:42:43 [MikeSmith]
- list of specs is at http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus#API_Specifications
- 16:42:44 [timeless]
- ... we've got less gaps here (today), than there (tomorrow)
- 16:42:53 [timeless]
- dglazkov: Shadow DOM, HTML Templates
- 16:43:19 [timeless]
- chaals: I'll put bryan (Push/SMS) to 2:30-3 (today)
- 16:43:31 [timeless]
- ... and Web Components for 11:15-12:30 (today)
- 16:43:51 [timeless]
- dglazkov: my items is procedural ... gauging temperature
- 16:43:59 [timeless]
- chaals: IndexedDB
- 16:44:13 [timeless]
- ericu: we have a request from someone from Google who can't be here today
- 16:44:16 [timeless]
- ... can it be tomorrow?
- 16:44:19 [timeless]
- chaals: Yes we can
- 16:44:31 [timeless]
- ArtB: i'd like a slot for Hixie 's 4 CRs
- 16:44:41 [timeless]
- ... where we are, can we get someone to fill in the gaps
- 16:44:48 [timeless]
- ... how do we manage future work
- 16:44:48 [sicking]
- sicking has joined #webapps
- 16:44:51 [timeless]
- ... v. getting to rec
- 16:44:56 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:44:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:45:15 [timeless]
- chaals: "Hixie's hand-me-downs" 11:30-12:30 (tomorrow)
- 16:45:41 [timeless]
- Travis: 10 minutes for DOM3 events/DOM4 from that slot?
- 16:45:46 [timeless]
- chaals: is that going to be short?
- 16:45:50 [timeless]
- anne: we had the longer one last time
- 16:45:54 [timeless]
- Travis: it should be short
- 16:46:00 [timeless]
- anne: we need 15 minutes for Full Screen
- 16:46:03 [timeless]
- ... ArtB mentioned that
- 16:46:14 [timeless]
- chaals: the Late Douglass Sheppers
- 16:46:29 [timeless]
- chaals: people who have not introduced yourselves
- 16:46:34 [timeless]
- ... please introduced yourselves
- 16:46:45 [ArtB]
- Present+ Doug_Schepers
- 16:47:01 [ArtB]
- Present+ Tantek_Celik
- 16:47:04 [timeless]
- shepazu: Doug Schepers, W3C Team Contact, Member
- 16:47:28 [ArtB]
- Present+ Ted_OConnor
- 16:47:32 [tantek]
- tantek has joined #webapps
- 16:47:38 [timeless]
- tantek: Tantek Celik, Mozilla, Observer
- 16:47:43 [gbillock]
- gbillock has joined #webapps
- 16:47:45 [ArtB]
- Present+ Jonas_Sicking
- 16:47:57 [timeless]
- ted: Ted O'Connor, Apple, Member
- 16:48:07 [timeless]
- s/Sheppers/Schepers/
- 16:48:23 [timeless]
- anne: Is the Stream API that's an extension to XHR going anywhere?
- 16:48:29 [timeless]
- ... is the editor here?
- 16:48:54 [hober]
- s/ted/hober/
- 16:49:06 [ArtB]
- Present+ Greg_Billock
- 16:49:21 [timeless]
- gbillock: Greg Billock, Google, Observer
- 16:49:46 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:49:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:50:00 [timeless]
- s/-->/->/
- 16:50:09 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: please put the IME API
- 16:50:16 [timeless]
- chaals: i'll try to leave space for breaks
- 16:50:23 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 16:50:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 16:50:36 [timeless]
- chaals: how many people have read the new charter?
- 16:50:42 [timeless]
- [ ~5 hands ]
- 16:50:50 [timeless]
- chaals: 4 of us were lying
- 16:51:06 [timeless]
- shepazu: I don't think chaals read it, and he wrote it
- 16:51:06 [mattkelly]
- mattkelly has joined #webapps
- 16:51:26 [timeless]
- bryan: the link on the webapps page is to the old charter
- 16:51:36 [anne]
- charter: http://www.w3.org/2012/webapps/charter/
- 16:51:50 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: the main webapps page is unusable
- 16:52:09 [timeless]
- bryan: the w3c pages don't work well on iPads
- 16:52:10 [timeless]
- shepazu: Action bryan to buy me an iPad
- 16:52:33 [timeless]
- chaals: Action bryan to buy everyone an iPad
- 16:52:49 [timeless]
- bryan: the style sheet is generally bad
- 16:53:28 [timeless]
- chaals: who's driving the screen?
- 16:53:30 [timeless]
- ArtB: I am
- 16:53:45 [timeless]
- [ ArtB projects PubStatus ]
- 16:54:42 [timeless]
- Topic: Charter/Pub Status
- 16:54:44 [MikeSmith]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2012/webapps/charter/ new WebApps charter
- 16:54:50 [timeless]
- ArtB: we have over 700 people subscribed to our list
- 16:54:58 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:54:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 16:54:59 [timeless]
- ... of those, only 30-40 people are really active
- 16:55:12 [timeless]
- ... i like to keep pub status accurate
- 16:55:28 [timeless]
- glenn: I have a comment to shepazu
- 16:55:29 [plh]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting#Agenda_May_1 Agenda for today
- 16:55:45 [timeless]
- ... it might be helpful to say XHR subsumes ....
- 16:55:52 [timeless]
- shepazu: can we make emmandations?
- 16:55:55 [timeless]
- plh: nope
- 16:55:58 [mattkelly]
- mattkelly has joined #webapps
- 16:56:06 [timeless]
- chaals: CORS
- 16:56:11 [timeless]
- ... we'll look at this tomorrow
- 16:56:30 [timeless]
- anne: I don't see how it's a plan
- 16:56:43 [timeless]
- [ the label for CORS says "LC Period ends 1-May-2012" ]
- 16:56:50 [timeless]
- anne: but the statement is accurate
- 16:56:56 [timeless]
- ... there have been no comments raised
- 16:57:03 [timeless]
- ... there was one "we should design this differently"
- 16:57:12 [timeless]
- ... there was a comment about making it more performant on mobiles
- 16:57:19 [timeless]
- ... that was related to caching
- 16:57:34 [timeless]
- chaals: do you expect a second version
- 16:57:45 [timeless]
- anne: if we tinker with caching, then we'd need a second version
- 16:57:52 [timeless]
- q?
- 16:58:13 [timeless]
- anne: there's also From-Origin (the opposite of CORS)
- 16:58:18 [DanD]
- DanD has joined #webapps
- 16:58:22 [chaals]
- q-
- 16:58:24 [timeless]
- anne: there are long term plans re: merging CORS + fetching
- 16:58:42 [timeless]
- shepazu: you should talk about that in the slot
- 16:59:00 [timeless]
- chaals: If you're speaking, you need to speak loud and to the center of the room
- 16:59:05 [timeless]
- anne: we can't fix all the bugs
- 16:59:11 [timeless]
- ArtB: so move to CR?
- 16:59:17 [timeless]
- anne: there have been no LC comments
- 16:59:18 [mattur]
- mattur has joined #webapps
- 16:59:26 [timeless]
- chaals: we expect to move to CR in two weeks?
- 16:59:34 [timeless]
- chaals: Clipboard APIs and Events
- 16:59:54 [timeless]
- ... holvard stein is not here
- 16:59:55 [timeless]
- ... is anyone following that closely enough?
- 17:00:05 [timeless]
- [ no ]
- 17:00:15 [timeless]
- ArtB: do we know implementation status?
- 17:00:17 [tantek]
- One request for the new WebApps charter (starting July 1 2012 presumably) - please switch to using the W3C wiki (instead of webapps wg-only wiki) : http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/
- 17:00:22 [chaals]
- s/holvard/halvord/
- 17:00:26 [timeless]
- anne: there's implementations
- 17:00:33 [timeless]
- ... but they have differences
- 17:00:45 [MikeSmith]
- q+ to ask if somebody wants to give update about plans for Quoata API spec
- 17:00:48 [timeless]
- rniwa: depending on platforms, there are variations
- 17:01:11 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #webapps
- 17:01:14 [timeless]
- ... there are issues involving determining Same-Origin
- 17:01:23 [timeless]
- ... affecting what can/should be stripped
- 17:01:27 [timeless]
- ... it might be needed
- 17:01:33 [timeless]
- chaals: so that's work in progress
- 17:01:41 [timeless]
- anne: there's an attribute for secure usage?
- 17:01:53 [timeless]
- chaals: CORS - testing
- 17:01:58 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #webapps
- 17:01:59 [timeless]
- ... and test facilitator, and test suite?
- 17:02:04 [timeless]
- odinho: me
- 17:02:10 [timeless]
- chaals: what's the status of the test suite?
- 17:02:15 [timeless]
- odinho: for the test suite
- 17:02:22 [timeless]
- ... i've been reading through the tests that are there
- 17:02:35 [timeless]
- ... i've incorporated the things that are missing into Opera's Test Suite
- 17:02:42 [timeless]
- ... but i haven't gotten entirely through the WebKit tests
- 17:02:50 [timeless]
- chaals: and that hasn't been sent back to the group
- 17:03:02 [timeless]
- krisk: tests that are submitted are a wide range
- 17:03:06 [timeless]
- ... we should go through them
- 17:03:18 [timeless]
- sicking: we have a couple of tests that are pretty big
- 17:03:25 [timeless]
- ... but they won't run anywhere else
- 17:03:30 [timeless]
- ... would you like us to submit those
- 17:03:37 [timeless]
- ... a lot of the tests are expressed as data
- 17:03:51 [timeless]
- ... you could write a new wrapper around it
- 17:03:55 [timeless]
- odinho: i've looked at it
- 17:04:07 [timeless]
- s/else/else (they use "yield")
- 17:04:17 [timeless]
- chaals: I'm trying to get a bird's eye view
- 17:04:30 [timeless]
- ... summary: odinho is looking at it others are working on it
- 17:04:40 [timeless]
- ... is there a test coordinator for Clipboard APIs
- 17:04:48 [timeless]
- rniwa: I don't think so
- 17:04:51 [timeless]
- ... how would we test it?
- 17:04:59 [plh]
- I think it would be good for mozilla to submit what they have, and we figure out in the longer run how to modify them
- 17:05:04 [timeless]
- ... it can't be from the web page
- 17:05:09 [timeless]
- ... so it has to be manual
- 17:05:20 [timeless]
- shepazu: so you define manual tests
- 17:05:39 [timeless]
- anne: there's a WATIA framework
- 17:05:53 [anne]
- Watir: http://watir.com/
- 17:05:55 [timeless]
- chaals: don't sign up to do something if you don't have the bandwidth for it
- 17:06:01 [timeless]
- s/WATIA/WATIR/
- 17:06:15 [timeless]
- s|Watir: http://watir.com/|-">http://watir.com/|-> http://watir.com/ Watir|
- 17:06:18 [timeless]
- chaals: DOM4
- 17:06:22 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:06:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 17:06:33 [timeless]
- anne: the Plan statement (for DOM4) isn't quite correct
- 17:06:39 [timeless]
- ... at some point we'll add new features
- 17:06:42 [timeless]
- ... better event registration
- 17:06:47 [timeless]
- ... extending ClassList
- 17:07:03 [timeless]
- ... varadic? arguments
- 17:07:15 [timeless]
- chaals: do we push DOM4 through and start DOM5
- 17:07:23 [timeless]
- ... what's the rush to get DOM4 finished
- 17:07:26 [plh]
- q+
- 17:07:38 [timeless]
- anne: you could push DOM4 through and work on DOM5
- 17:07:44 [timeless]
- ack MikeSmith
- 17:07:44 [Zakim]
- MikeSmith, you wanted to ask if somebody wants to give update about plans for Quoata API spec
- 17:08:05 [timeless]
- s/Quoata/Quota/
- 17:08:21 [timeless]
- ... but we don't have a way to manage forks (maintaining DOM4 and working on DOM5)
- 17:08:36 [timeless]
- plh: we can't link to an unstable thing from a spec
- 17:08:41 [mattkelly]
- mattkelly has joined #webapps
- 17:09:05 [timeless]
- chaals: that discussion is about w3c process
- 17:09:06 [timeless]
- ... that
- 17:09:14 [R_Berkoff]
- R_Berkoff has joined #webapps
- 17:09:15 [timeless]
- s/that/that's out of scope for this WG/
- 17:09:22 [timeless]
- anne: i know there are people that want it
- 17:09:26 [timeless]
- ... but i have limited bandwidth
- 17:09:39 [timeless]
- ... we could publish dom4 now
- 17:09:45 [timeless]
- ... it's way better than dom3
- 17:09:54 [timeless]
- chaals: Adrian Bateman, Microsoft, Member
- 17:10:00 [ArtB]
- Present+ Adrian_Bateman
- 17:10:00 [timeless]
- present+ Adrian_Bateman
- 17:10:06 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:10:06 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 17:10:23 [timeless]
- Travis: only the WebPerf WG has requested to link to DOM4
- 17:10:30 [timeless]
- plh: a bunch of specs want to
- 17:10:46 [timeless]
- rniwa: there's demand to deprecate DOM Mutation events (DOM3)
- 17:10:59 [timeless]
- ... i think mozilla is planning to unprefix the replacement
- 17:11:17 [timeless]
- chaals: it sounds like it would be good for the chairs to find someone with the bandwidth to branch of DOM4 and stabalize it
- 17:11:26 [timeless]
- ... is that someone standing up to volunteer?
- 17:11:31 [timeless]
- ... thank you very much Tantek
- 17:11:48 [timeless]
- ACTION ArtB to find someone to branch DOM4 and publish
- 17:11:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-645 - Find someone to branch DOM4 and publish [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:12:12 [timeless]
- anne: if you make the CR reqs loose, we can do it fairly quickly
- 17:12:21 [timeless]
- ArtB: is anyone interested in helping with that task?
- 17:12:22 [timeless]
- [ Silence ]
- 17:12:35 [timeless]
- chaals: don't worry anne, we'll come back and ask you again
- 17:12:44 [timeless]
- ... until you come up with the right answer, which is yes
- 17:12:58 [timeless]
- Travis: ArtB, please show PubStatus wiki page
- 17:13:11 [timeless]
- [ ArtB captures need to fork DOM4 for stable+publishing ]
- 17:13:13 [anne]
- http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus
- 17:13:20 [anne]
- ^^ page on screen
- 17:13:21 [adrianba]
- adrianba has joined #webapps
- 17:13:44 [timeless]
- s|http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus|-">http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus|-> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus WebApps Pub Status (on screen)|
- 17:13:48 [timeless]
- s/^^ page on screen//
- 17:14:06 [timeless]
- Travis: bugzilla database is the prime spot for tracking (DOM3 Events)
- 17:14:21 [timeless]
- ... i think we should issue another LCWD
- 17:14:29 [timeless]
- chaals: DOM Parsing + Serialization
- 17:14:37 [timeless]
- anne: the HTML WG might or might not work on it
- 17:14:43 [timeless]
- chaals: it's in our charter
- 17:14:59 [timeless]
- paulc: the CfC for HTMLWG:ISSUE-198 closes today
- 17:15:15 [timeless]
- anne: in particular, if it closes, it will be forked from the html
- 17:15:22 [timeless]
- ... and someone from microsoft will publish it
- 17:15:36 [timeless]
- chaals: despite the fact that it's in our charter, we don't know if it will happen in our group
- 17:15:40 [timeless]
- ... is that right paulc?
- 17:15:47 [timeless]
- ... my sense was that we would do it in our group
- 17:15:53 [timeless]
- anne: no, they wanted it in the html wg
- 17:15:58 [timeless]
- paulc: i'd have to do the research
- 17:16:13 [timeless]
- ... i don't think HTMLWG:issue-198 speaks to where it would be done
- 17:16:30 [timeless]
- ACTION chaals to talk to paulc about where Parsing+Serialization work is done
- 17:16:30 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-646 - Talk to paulc about where Parsing+Serialization work is done [on Charles McCathieNevile - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:16:42 [timeless]
- chaals: Element Traversal is DONE
- 17:16:52 [timeless]
- ... File API
- 17:17:05 [timeless]
- sicking: the pub status for File API looks right
- 17:17:12 [timeless]
- ... we can possibly do it in Q2
- 17:17:16 [timeless]
- chaals: do we expect Q3
- 17:17:22 [timeless]
- ... let's say we expect it in Q3
- 17:17:28 [timeless]
- ... directories and systems
- 17:17:33 [timeless]
- ericu: that's all correct
- 17:17:40 [timeless]
- chaals: From-Origin Header
- 17:17:46 [timeless]
- anne: I don't think there's been much uptake
- 17:17:49 [timeless]
- ... drop it, i guess
- 17:17:57 [timeless]
- ... i've addressed all the comments
- 17:18:01 [timeless]
- ... there haven't been other comments
- 17:18:11 [timeless]
- ... I don't think anyone implemented it
- 17:18:29 [timeless]
- ... the idea was to prevent people from using CORS in places for which it wasn't quite intended
- 17:18:35 [timeless]
- ... but they started doing that anyway
- 17:18:44 [timeless]
- chaals: so that has no one to take it forward
- 17:18:47 [timeless]
- ... does anyone want it?
- 17:18:50 [timeless]
- ... it's up for grabs
- 17:18:56 [timeless]
- anne: i'm happy to continue editing it
- 17:19:07 [timeless]
- ... but if no one is going to implement it, then there's not much point
- 17:19:18 [timeless]
- chaals: let's start a CfC to publish it as a note
- 17:19:29 [timeless]
- ... if that doesn't shake anyone out, then park it as a note
- 17:19:42 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to stop work on From-Origin spec
- 17:19:42 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-647 - Start a CfC to stop work on From-Origin spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:19:43 [timeless]
- ACTION ArtB to start CfC to publish From-Origin as a note
- 17:19:43 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-648 - Start CfC to publish From-Origin as a note [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:20:02 [timeless]
- bryan: I understand technically what it was intended to do
- 17:20:07 [timeless]
- ... and i understand it was a good idea
- 17:20:18 [timeless]
- ... but i'd like to understand how CORS stands if we don't have From-Origin
- 17:20:25 [timeless]
- chaals: Full Screen
- 17:20:28 [plh]
- q+
- 17:20:31 [timeless]
- ... do we have a test coordinator?
- 17:20:34 [timeless]
- anne: no
- 17:20:37 [timeless]
- chaals: ok, so we need one
- 17:21:01 [timeless]
- WonSuk: WonSuk Lee, Samsung, Member
- 17:21:05 [ArtB]
- Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
- 17:21:18 [timeless]
- ack plh
- 17:21:37 [timeless]
- plh: From-Origin is in the WebAppsSec Charter
- 17:21:40 [adrianba]
- q+
- 17:21:42 [timeless]
- ... so we should talk to them
- 17:21:52 [timeless]
- ArtB: i didn't think it was a joint item
- 17:22:04 [timeless]
- plh: we can talk to them tomorrow
- 17:22:31 [timeless]
- adrianba: Fullscreen...
- 17:22:34 [timeless]
- ... is it two specs?
- 17:22:46 [timeless]
- ... there's a CSS bit
- 17:22:53 [timeless]
- tantek: it will be managed together
- 17:23:00 [timeless]
- ArtB: how close is it to somewhere?
- 17:23:30 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Fullscreen spec; coordinate with CSS WG
- 17:23:30 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-649 - Start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Fullscreen spec; coordinate with CSS WG [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:23:44 [timeless]
- chaals: we expect a FPWD this Q
- 17:23:48 [timeless]
- ... Gamepad
- 17:24:00 [timeless]
- scheib: The Gamepad editor is Scott Brown, from Google
- 17:24:08 [timeless]
- ... the draft has been stable for the last little wihle
- 17:24:12 [timeless]
- s/wihle/while/
- 17:24:16 [timeless]
- ... chrome is behind a flag
- 17:24:26 [timeless]
- ... I believe firefox is soon to ship without a flag
- 17:24:34 [timeless]
- ... i don't see anything blocking
- 17:24:40 [timeless]
- plh: publish as LC?
- 17:24:46 [timeless]
- shepazu: FPLC?
- 17:24:49 [timeless]
- ... it's kind of funny
- 17:24:52 [timeless]
- chaals: you can do that
- 17:24:55 [timeless]
- ... full screen might do the same
- 17:25:02 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start CfC for FPWD + LCWD of Gamepad spec
- 17:25:02 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-650 - Start CfC for FPWD + LCWD of Gamepad spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:25:15 [scheib]
- s/Scott Brown/Scott Graham/
- 17:25:32 [timeless]
- shepazu: why don't we have a session to do them
- 17:25:32 [Wonsuk]
- Wonsuk has joined #webapps
- 17:25:38 [timeless]
- chaals: Indexed DB
- 17:25:41 [timeless]
- ... we have a test suite
- 17:25:44 [timeless]
- ... it's on the agenda
- 17:25:48 [timeless]
- ... anything to say?
- 17:25:48 [anne]
- fwiw, Gamepad is not ready for LC
- 17:25:54 [anne]
- at least https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gamepad/raw-file/default/gamepad.html is not
- 17:26:03 [timeless]
- sicking: i don't think there's much to do
- 17:26:06 [timeless]
- chaals: IME?
- 17:26:09 [timeless]
- ... MikeSmith ?
- 17:26:14 [anne]
- e.g. GamepadEvent does not inherit from Event at the moment and does not define a constructor
- 17:26:20 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: do you need a Test Facilitator?
- 17:26:24 [timeless]
- chaals: yes, thanks
- 17:26:28 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: i'm happy to do it
- 17:26:43 [timeless]
- chaals: we need a FPWD
- 17:26:57 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start CfC to publish FPWD of IME spec
- 17:26:57 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-651 - Start CfC to publish FPWD of IME spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:27:09 [timeless]
- chaals: anyone following Java bindings for WebIDL?
- 17:27:18 [timeless]
- anne: i don't know anyone doing it
- 17:27:22 [timeless]
- chaals: i used to
- 17:27:27 [timeless]
- ... pointer lock?
- 17:27:29 [anne]
- s/anne:/travis:/
- 17:27:36 [timeless]
- scheib: I'm the editor
- 17:27:44 [timeless]
- chaals: do you have a test faciliator?
- 17:27:49 [timeless]
- scheib: i don't know
- 17:27:56 [timeless]
- chaals: it's someone who commits to getting test
- 17:28:00 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start CfC for Pointer spec
- 17:28:00 [timeless]
- s/test/tests/
- 17:28:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-652 - Start CfC for Pointer spec [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:28:03 [timeless]
- ... you can do it yourself
- 17:28:06 [komoroske]
- komoroske has joined #webapps
- 17:28:08 [timeless]
- scheib: i'll probably do it myself
- 17:28:12 [timeless]
- ... i'm not sure of the timeline
- 17:28:18 [timeless]
- chaals: Progress Events
- 17:28:25 [timeless]
- ... waiting on implementations
- 17:28:29 [timeless]
- anne: there's a test suite
- 17:28:52 [timeless]
- ... Ms2ger wrote tests that end up testing WebIDL
- 17:28:57 [timeless]
- ... which people get wrong
- 17:29:08 [timeless]
- ... the test suite doesn't test dispatch
- 17:29:12 [timeless]
- ... just the interface
- 17:29:16 [timeless]
- chaals: status?
- 17:29:24 [timeless]
- anne: when is Opera going to pass the test suite?
- 17:29:38 [mattkelly]
- mattkelly has joined #webapps
- 17:29:41 [timeless]
- chaals: Quota
- 17:30:11 [rniwa]
- kinuko yasuda
- 17:30:18 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: I thought Kinuko Yasuda was working on it
- 17:30:27 [timeless]
- s/kinuko yasuda//
- 17:30:40 [timeless]
- chaals: and that doesn't have a test facilitator
- 17:30:49 [timeless]
- ... looks like we need a lot of test facilitators
- 17:30:54 [timeless]
- ArtB: yeah, a lot of holes
- 17:30:57 [timeless]
- chaals: selectors
- 17:31:01 [timeless]
- ... it's waiting on me
- 17:31:05 [timeless]
- ... it's waiting on WebIDL
- 17:31:10 [timeless]
- ... as WebIDL is going to CR
- 17:31:16 [timeless]
- ... I think Selectors can go to PR
- 17:31:23 [timeless]
- ... the test facilitator should be me
- 17:31:30 [timeless]
- plh: we should have a link to the interop report
- 17:31:40 [timeless]
- ... expect an advancement to PR to Q2
- 17:31:54 [timeless]
- ... then it blocks again until WebIDL moves forward
- 17:32:06 [timeless]
- s/... expect/chaals expect/
- 17:32:11 [timeless]
- s/chaals/chaals:/
- 17:32:23 [timeless]
- chaals: Server Sent Events
- 17:32:35 [timeless]
- ArtB: we published a LC last week
- 17:32:38 [timeless]
- ... we have 3 weeks
- 17:32:43 [timeless]
- ... i think there was a comment last week
- 17:32:56 [timeless]
- glenn: there was a comment about infinite reconnects
- 17:33:02 [timeless]
- chaals: we have comments
- 17:33:09 [timeless]
- ... i think everyone's had the same issue
- 17:33:28 [timeless]
- ArtB: the only tests i know of are Opera's
- 17:33:31 [timeless]
- ... can you submit them?
- 17:33:37 [timeless]
- odinho: yeah, we can
- 17:33:57 [timeless]
- chaals: Shadow DOM
- 17:34:02 [timeless]
- dglazkov: been working on spec
- 17:34:07 [timeless]
- ... we have a test suite
- 17:34:15 [timeless]
- ... dominic has been doing them
- 17:34:21 [timeless]
- ... the spec is fairly stable
- 17:34:29 [timeless]
- ... i was going to ask about moving it to WD
- 17:34:36 [timeless]
- chaals: the procedure for moving to FPWD
- 17:34:38 [timeless]
- ... or LC
- 17:34:53 [timeless]
- ... is: as an editor, you write to the chairs and say "i think we're ready"
- 17:35:02 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Shadow DOM
- 17:35:02 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-653 - Start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Shadow DOM [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:35:03 [timeless]
- ... we write to the group asking for CfC
- 17:35:31 [timeless]
- ArtB: the thing about FPWD is that it starts a call for IP exclusions
- 17:35:41 [timeless]
- ... it's good for the feature set to be defined at a high level
- 17:35:49 [timeless]
- ... so the ip guys can look at that
- 17:35:54 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we're well past it
- 17:36:04 [timeless]
- chaals: in that case, we should [already] have a FPWD
- 17:36:10 [timeless]
- ... and we'll do that with you
- 17:36:15 [timeless]
- dglazkov: it's on the web site
- 17:36:20 [timeless]
- chaals: URL
- 17:36:24 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: looking at anne
- 17:36:38 [timeless]
- anne: I'm working on encodings
- 17:36:42 [dglazkov]
- s/on the web site/well pas that point/
- 17:36:44 [timeless]
- ... adam was editing, then mike
- 17:36:49 [timeless]
- s/pas that/past/that/
- 17:37:01 [timeless]
- ArtB: there's a warning from adam
- 17:37:15 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: we need to look through the tests
- 17:37:27 [timeless]
- ... next month we can look at it
- 17:37:34 [timeless]
- ... we could publish a FPWD now
- 17:37:37 [timeless]
- ... I can put it together
- 17:37:54 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC for FPWD of URL spec (Mike to be lead Editor)
- 17:37:54 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-654 - Start a CfC for FPWD of URL spec (Mike to be lead Editor) [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:37:58 [timeless]
- chaals: FPWD needs to lay out what the thing does, which we're at
- 17:38:02 [timeless]
- chaals: Screen Orientation
- 17:38:04 [timeless]
- ... aka Screen Lock
- 17:38:07 [timeless]
- ... view something
- 17:38:19 [timeless]
- s/something/orientation/
- 17:38:29 [MikeSmith]
- s/Mike to be lead Editor/Mike to not be lead Editor but will help to drive it/g
- 17:38:35 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:38:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 17:38:52 [timeless]
- ArtB: Mounir is working on it
- 17:39:37 [timeless]
- [ plh, the Frenchman, properly pronounces his name, and asks how there could be a problem pronouncing it ]
- 17:39:41 [timeless]
- sicking: i don't know
- 17:39:57 [Wonsuk]
- Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
- 17:39:59 [timeless]
- ACTION ArtB to follow up with mounir about status of Screen Orientation
- 17:39:59 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-655 - Follow up with mounir about status of Screen Orientation [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:40:05 [timeless]
- chaals: WebIDL
- 17:40:21 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:40:21 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 17:40:34 [timeless]
- chaals: Travis, look good?
- 17:40:47 [timeless]
- Travis: i am the test facilitator, but i haven't faciliateted
- 17:40:57 [timeless]
- s/faciliateted/facilitated/
- 17:41:01 [timeless]
- chaals: Web Intents
- 17:41:14 [timeless]
- gbillock: we probably need a test facilitator
- 17:41:18 [timeless]
- ... i'll sign up for that
- 17:41:24 [timeless]
- Travis: we need a FPWD
- 17:41:34 [timeless]
- gbillock: we'll talk about that this afternoon
- 17:41:38 [timeless]
- chaals: Web Messaging
- 17:41:40 [timeless]
- ArtB: in CR
- 17:41:45 [timeless]
- chaals: as of this morning
- 17:41:52 [timeless]
- ... that's PostMessage
- 17:42:05 [timeless]
- ArtB: according to caniuse.com, it has the most deployment
- 17:42:09 [timeless]
- chaals: but no tests
- 17:42:29 [timeless]
- shepazu: i don't think this is the right room to draw them from
- 17:42:40 [PaulKinl_]
- PaulKinl_ has joined #webapps
- 17:42:40 [ArtB]
- ACTION: barstow find a Test Facilitator for Web Messaging CR
- 17:42:40 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-656 - Find a Test Facilitator for Web Messaging CR [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:42:48 [timeless]
- chaals: Web Sockets
- 17:42:54 [timeless]
- ... we need to finish CR/Test suite
- 17:43:03 [timeless]
- krisk: MikeSmith helped get a server up
- 17:43:13 [timeless]
- ... i think MikeSmith 's going to update one module
- 17:43:19 [timeless]
- ... but it seems to be going along pretty well
- 17:43:24 [timeless]
- ... tests are pretty complete
- 17:43:29 [timeless]
- ArtB: so MikeSmith will update the module
- 17:43:35 [timeless]
- chaals: run the Test Suite, ask for PR
- 17:43:49 [timeless]
- ArtB: are you aware of implementations that pass everything?
- 17:43:52 [timeless]
- krisk: we're pretty close
- 17:44:04 [timeless]
- anne: there's a problem in Web Sockets relating to Surrogates
- 17:44:11 [timeless]
- anne: the spec requires throwing
- 17:44:16 [timeless]
- s/to/to Isolated/
- 17:44:30 [timeless]
- ... but preference is to replace
- 17:44:49 [timeless]
- ... i don't think it's tested by the test suite
- 17:45:03 [timeless]
- glenn: there was discussion on isolated surrogates in public-script-coord
- 17:45:13 [timeless]
- anne: it's related, but it's not the same
- 17:45:15 [timeless]
- ... and it won't change
- 17:45:33 [timeless]
- anne: spec requires throwing
- 17:45:40 [timeless]
- ... most want not throwing
- 17:45:49 [timeless]
- adrianba: i thought we threw
- 17:46:02 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 17:46:02 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 17:46:30 [timeless]
- anne: for consistency with XHR which doesn't throw
- 17:46:40 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: and web authors won't expect it to throw
- 17:46:54 [timeless]
- krisk: i think we should talk about this in our Hixie specs slot
- 17:46:57 [timeless]
- chaals: Web Storage
- 17:47:38 [timeless]
- ArtB: i think there's a late DOM4 change
- 17:47:42 [timeless]
- ... which blocks Web Storage
- 17:47:46 [timeless]
- ... does anyone implement that?
- 17:47:52 [timeless]
- krisk: I don't think anyone does yet
- 17:47:58 [timeless]
- ... it's definitely blocked on that
- 17:48:02 [timeless]
- ArtB: Yikes,
- 17:48:11 [timeless]
- krisk: we should talk about that in the Hixie specs slot
- 17:48:19 [timeless]
- chaals: Web Workers
- 17:48:22 [timeless]
- ArtB: CR today
- 17:48:37 [timeless]
- Travis: someone doing that should work on Web Messaging, since they're intertwined
- 17:48:45 [timeless]
- anne: Web Workers has feedback that may require going back to LC
- 17:48:47 [timeless]
- chaals: that's right
- 17:48:53 [timeless]
- ... into that slot too
- 17:48:56 [timeless]
- chaals: XBL2
- 17:49:07 [timeless]
- ... anyone love that enough to follow up?
- 17:49:10 [timeless]
- ArtB: wait for sicking
- 17:49:23 [timeless]
- chaals: my impression is that it's going to be parked
- 17:49:31 [timeless]
- anne: I think smaug is the only person who cares
- 17:49:41 [timeless]
- chaals: XHR
- 17:49:47 [timeless]
- anne: 2 does'nt existr
- 17:49:54 [timeless]
- s/does'nt existr/doesn't exist/
- 17:50:23 [timeless]
- anne: I wrote a test suite once
- 17:50:26 [timeless]
- ... but no one cared
- 17:50:39 [timeless]
- ... i tried to find someone, and odinho ...
- 17:50:43 [timeless]
- odinho: i had an intern
- 17:50:48 [timeless]
- chaals: making an intern isn't a good idea
- 17:50:51 [timeless]
- ... since they disappear
- 17:51:08 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:51:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 17:51:16 [timeless]
- chaals: we got a request from Mozilla when we rechartered
- 17:51:23 [timeless]
- ... to look at web app packaging
- 17:51:32 [timeless]
- ... sort of a JSON version of Widget Packaging
- 17:51:37 [timeless]
- ... and we have a potential draft starting point
- 17:51:46 [timeless]
- ... do you, tantek, have any further idea on its status?
- 17:51:51 [timeless]
- tantek: is this Manifests?
- 17:51:53 [timeless]
- chaals: yes
- 17:51:55 [timeless]
- shepazu: yes
- 17:52:02 [timeless]
- ... and do you know who that is?
- 17:52:07 [timeless]
- tantek: i think that was Michael Hanson
- 17:52:13 [timeless]
- ... what's the input you are requesting
- 17:52:18 [timeless]
- chaals: it's in our charter
- 17:52:28 [timeless]
- ... mozilla has a spec and someone supposedly into it
- 17:52:34 [timeless]
- ... do they have someone to do the work
- 17:52:38 [timeless]
- ... and you can say i don't know
- 17:52:40 [timeless]
- tantek: i don't know
- 17:52:45 [timeless]
- chaals: the answer is "we don't know"
- 17:53:06 [timeless]
- ACTION shepazu to contact dbaron (Mozilla AC), cc tantek
- 17:53:06 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-657 - Contact dbaron (Mozilla AC), cc tantek [on Doug Schepers - due 2012-05-08].
- 17:53:14 [timeless]
- [ Break for 15 minutes ]
- 17:53:19 [timeless]
- Topic: Web Components
- 18:03:37 [komoroske]
- komoroske has joined #webapps
- 18:17:11 [rogerk]
- rogerk has joined #webapps
- 18:21:06 [PaulKinlan]
- PaulKinlan has joined #webapps
- 18:21:14 [timeless]
- chaals: sicking wasn't here
- 18:21:22 [timeless]
- ... XBL2 should be parked as a WG Note
- 18:21:33 [timeless]
- sicking: if things go south, can we bring it back?
- 18:21:35 [PaulKinl_]
- PaulKinl_ has joined #webapps
- 18:21:41 [timeless]
- chaals: yes, it's in the charter
- 18:21:50 [timeless]
- plh: is there a lot of work?
- 18:21:58 [timeless]
- shepazu: do we do a CfC?
- 18:22:02 [krisk]
- krisk has joined #webapps
- 18:22:06 [timeless]
- chaals: I volunteer to update the status of the document
- 18:22:07 [tross]
- tross has joined #webapps
- 18:22:24 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Barstow start CfC to create a WG Note for XBL2 (and Chaals will do the work)
- 18:22:25 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-658 - Start CfC to create a WG Note for XBL2 (and Chaals will do the work) [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 18:22:43 [timeless]
- chaals: where are we?
- 18:22:52 [timeless]
- dglazkov: lots of work has been done since last TPAC
- 18:23:01 [timeless]
- ... the main feedback at TPAC
- 18:23:08 [timeless]
- ... was we brought a lot of stuff
- 18:23:11 [timeless]
- ... but it was a bag of goods
- 18:23:21 [timeless]
- ... rather than a coherent whole
- 18:23:37 [smaug_]
- smaug_ has joined #webapps
- 18:23:37 [timeless]
- ... we needed a declarative form
- 18:23:40 [timeless]
- ... where is the spec
- 18:23:46 [timeless]
- ... confinement/isolation
- 18:23:53 [timeless]
- ... lightweight/functional
- 18:24:49 [timeless]
- ... with the help of shepazu, we got things we needed
- 18:24:53 [tross_]
- tross_ has joined #webapps
- 18:24:59 [timeless]
- ... it takes more work to get a component in webkit bugzilla
- 18:25:08 [shepazu]
- s/help of shepazu/help of ArtB and shepazu/
- 18:25:43 [shepazu]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/57f8cfc4a7dc/explainer/index.html Web Components Explained
- 18:25:54 [timeless]
- s/http/-> http/
- 18:25:58 [dglazkov]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html
- 18:26:21 [timeless]
- s|http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html|-">http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html|-> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html Shadow DOM ED|
- 18:26:29 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we talked to a lot of people
- 18:26:44 [timeless]
- ... i tried to come up with as solid of a spec as i could
- 18:26:54 [timeless]
- ... simultaneously we developed this in WebKit
- 18:27:04 [ojan]
- ojan has joined #webapps
- 18:27:07 [timeless]
- ... behind a flag, and only available in Developer builds
- 18:27:13 [timeless]
- ... i don't want a repeat of WebSQL
- 18:27:21 [timeless]
- ... this helped inform ourselves about things
- 18:27:25 [timeless]
- ... it helped flush out things
- 18:27:31 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 18:27:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 18:27:39 [timeless]
- ... the basis of the spec was the XBL2 part
- 18:27:48 [timeless]
- ... there has been a lot of things added
- 18:27:55 [timeless]
- ... a lot of that is precision of shadow dom
- 18:27:58 [timeless]
- ... htmly things
- 18:28:02 [timeless]
- ... guided by our implementation
- 18:28:08 [timeless]
- ... today the spec is in pretty good shape
- 18:28:11 [timeless]
- ... we have a small bug list
- 18:28:20 [dglazkov]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/showdependencytree.cgi?id=14978
- 18:28:23 [plh]
- plh has joined #webapps
- 18:28:43 [timeless]
- s|https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/showdependencytree.cgi?id=14978|-">https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/showdependencytree.cgi?id=14978|-> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/showdependencytree.cgi?id=14978 Shadow DOM Bug Tree|
- 18:28:57 [timeless]
- dglazkov: some are small things, "not MUSTy enough"
- 18:29:12 [timeless]
- ... there's one (largish) addition we're contemplating
- 18:29:25 [timeless]
- ... bug 15818
- 18:29:38 [timeless]
- s|s/does'nt existr/doesn't exist/||
- 18:29:47 [timeless]
- s|2 does'nt existr|2 doesn't exist|
- 18:30:09 [timeless]
- s|s/pas that/past/that/||
- 18:30:26 [timeless]
- [ XXX scribe suspects that the scribe script has reached its breaking point ]
- 18:30:30 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:30:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
- 18:31:10 [shepazu]
- q+ to ask about changing styles of local instances (a la SVG <use>)
- 18:31:38 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i also worked on the HTML Templates Spec
- 18:31:47 [timeless]
- q?
- 18:31:53 [adrianba]
- q-
- 18:32:02 [timeless]
- ... an idea
- 18:32:11 [timeless]
- ... we have the templates element (see the Explainer doc)
- 18:32:15 [Russell_Berkoff]
- Russell_Berkoff has joined #webapps
- 18:32:26 [timeless]
- ... what makes it "interesting" is that it requires HTML Parser modifications
- 18:32:34 [timeless]
- ... I wrote the spec and WebKit modifications
- 18:32:38 [timeless]
- ... to see how it was received
- 18:32:46 [timeless]
- ... several people voiced Cautious Concern
- 18:32:51 [timeless]
- ... Hsivonen and Abarth
- 18:33:12 [timeless]
- ... the two parser people whose brain's we picked
- 18:33:53 [timeless]
- ... they James Graham from Opera wasn't very happy either
- 18:34:04 [timeless]
- ... there's still a need for an extra mode (?)
- 18:34:19 [timeless]
- ... the <template> tag has 2 modes
- 18:34:24 [timeless]
- ... "declare anything"
- 18:34:27 [timeless]
- ... "declare anywhere"
- 18:34:31 [komoroske]
- komoroske has joined #webapps
- 18:34:52 [timeless]
- ... we're going to drop "declare anywhere", we don't need it for Web Components
- 18:35:07 [timeless]
- ... "declare anything" we're going to keep, since it seems useful
- 18:35:18 [plh]
- rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
- 18:35:23 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html plh
- 18:35:29 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: you're going to drop anywhere, and you're keeping anything?
- 18:35:32 [timeless]
- [ Laughter ]
- 18:35:36 [timeless]
- dglazkov: right
- 18:35:44 [timeless]
- dglazkov: Custom Elements is the next spec in line
- 18:35:49 [timeless]
- ... i'm planning to start working on it next week
- 18:35:59 [timeless]
- ... i spent the last couple of weeks researching the problem space
- 18:36:04 [timeless]
- ... i wrote a poly-fill
- 18:36:08 [timeless]
- ... if you have Shadow DOM
- 18:36:08 [dglazkov]
- https://github.com/dglazkov/Web-Components-Polyfill
- 18:36:36 [timeless]
- s|https://github.com/dglazkov/Web-Components-Polyfill|-">https://github.com/dglazkov/Web-Components-Polyfill|-> https://github.com/dglazkov/Web-Components-Polyfill Polyfill (using Web Components)|
- 18:36:51 [timeless]
- dglazkov: in Custom Elements, one of the new thing is fictional syntax
- 18:36:52 [ericu]
- ericu has joined #webapps
- 18:37:00 [timeless]
- ... these items aren't controversial
- 18:37:07 [timeless]
- ... loading definitions of components
- 18:37:11 [timeless]
- ... which is a big issue
- 18:37:17 [timeless]
- ... don't want Synchronous
- 18:37:33 [timeless]
- ... but Asynchronous has issues: When am I a component/When am I unknown?
- 18:37:38 [timeless]
- ... instantiating a Component
- 18:37:41 [timeless]
- ... has interesting effects
- 18:37:48 [timeless]
- ... maybe i'd like to be able to drop into user script
- 18:38:01 [timeless]
- ... but if i'm instantiating from Parser, that maybe isn't a good idea
- 18:38:08 [timeless]
- ... more mundane issue
- 18:38:14 [timeless]
- ... custom elements are DOM Objects
- 18:38:19 [timeless]
- ... with an extended prototype chain
- 18:38:24 [timeless]
- ... i don't know how to spec this
- 18:38:31 [timeless]
- ... since it creates a dependency on ECMAScript
- 18:38:34 [timeless]
- anne: what exactly?
- 18:38:46 [timeless]
- dglazkov: Custom Elements extend the Prototype Chain
- 18:38:49 [plh]
- partial interface?
- 18:38:54 [timeless]
- ... I don't want to create a dependency on ECMAScript
- 18:39:03 [timeless]
- anne: why is creating a dependency on ECMAScript a problem?
- 18:39:13 [timeless]
- plh: it seems like you're creating a partial interface
- 18:39:18 [timeless]
- dglazkov: right, but it's arbitrary
- 18:39:28 [timeless]
- anne: you should talk to cameron
- 18:39:38 [timeless]
- ... he'll probably say that you have to define it yourself in prose
- 18:39:42 [timeless]
- s/cameron/heycam/
- 18:39:50 [timeless]
- ... i'll look into it next week, after this session
- 18:39:57 [timeless]
- ... another thing, relating to elements
- 18:40:05 [timeless]
- ... we came to TPAC with custom tags
- 18:40:11 [timeless]
- ... there was much grievance
- 18:40:23 [timeless]
- s/custom tags/custom tags: x-slider/
- 18:40:38 [timeless]
- ... we switched to use elements
- 18:40:47 [timeless]
- ... it's a magical element, you can only set it once
- 18:41:20 [timeless]
- ... button is fancy button
- 18:41:39 [timeless]
- ... during instantiation, you have to specify it
- 18:41:44 [timeless]
- ... eric myer, of myerweb
- 18:41:45 [dglazkov]
- http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2012/04/10/element-customization/
- 18:42:11 [timeless]
- ... i want to bring it up, i'm feeling very ambivalent
- 18:42:21 [timeless]
- ... i'd like to figure out who would be the right person or forum
- 18:42:25 [timeless]
- ... i posted to webapps
- 18:42:29 [timeless]
- ... and crickets chimed in
- 18:42:39 [timeless]
- tantek: isn't this more HTML WG than WebApps WG?
- 18:42:43 [timeless]
- dglazkov: that's what i'd like to know
- 18:43:08 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 18:43:08 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 18:43:19 [timeless]
- shepazu: about inheriting from Button / Slider / Calendar
- 18:43:27 [timeless]
- ... there's been talk in the past about having psuedo elements
- 18:43:32 [timeless]
- ... say for CSS
- 18:43:39 [timeless]
- ... say for the slider's thumb
- 18:44:14 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we looked at the css variables spec
- 18:44:25 [timeless]
- ... the spec says css variables inherit into shadow dom
- 18:44:34 [timeless]
- shepazu: that calls out the need for pseudo elements
- 18:44:42 [timeless]
- dglazkov: with css variables, you don't
- 18:44:49 [timeless]
- shepazu: i don't understand yet
- 18:45:07 [dglazkov]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/samples/widget-theming.html
- 18:46:13 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i know the MS guys did pseudo elements
- 18:46:18 [timeless]
- ... and we have them in WebKit
- 18:46:21 [timeless]
- ... and we hate them
- 18:46:48 [timeless]
- dglazkov: what browsers use pseudo elements to style bits of things
- 18:46:53 [timeless]
- ... i think you use pseudo classes
- 18:47:23 [timeless]
- sicking: what do we use to style the placeholder
- 18:47:26 [timeless]
- ... or input elements?
- 18:47:36 [timeless]
- tantek: it's a psuedo class
- 18:48:10 [timeless]
- s/travis:/Travis:/g
- 18:48:52 [timeless]
- s/Mike_Smith/MikeSmith/g
- 18:49:16 [timeless]
- present+ Paul_Cotton
- 18:49:31 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 18:49:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 18:50:31 [timeless]
- dglazkov: in any declarative paradigm
- 18:50:39 [timeless]
- ... if you're saying button, or div is shelf
- 18:50:45 [timeless]
- ... you're defining a subclass
- 18:50:49 [timeless]
- ... and when you instantiate it
- 18:50:56 [timeless]
- ... you don't say, it's a shelf, oh, it's also a div
- 18:51:10 [timeless]
- shepazu: could there be another thing other than localname?
- 18:51:14 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i don't want to mess with
- 18:51:34 [timeless]
- tantek: could you consider defining it as a mixin rather than a subclass?
- 18:51:38 [timeless]
- dglazkov: that's decorators
- 18:51:53 [timeless]
- tantek: why not have everything be a mixin?
- 18:52:08 [timeless]
- dglazkov: when you're dealing with everything as an api
- 18:52:15 [timeless]
- ... you want to ensure things are always the same
- 18:52:29 [shepazu]
- q?
- 18:52:31 [timeless]
- ... you don't want a style recalculation to cause your object to lose its decorator/api?
- 18:52:36 [timeless]
- tantek: that's done through css?
- 18:52:46 [timeless]
- dglazkov: well, decorators are done through css
- 18:52:53 [timeless]
- ... and then there's the moving it out of the tree
- 18:53:03 [timeless]
- tantek: well like the class= attribute
- 18:53:12 [timeless]
- dglazkov: but then you can have "spooky action at a distance"
- 18:53:16 [timeless]
- ... if you change the class name
- 18:53:22 [timeless]
- ... what happens to its state?
- 18:53:28 [timeless]
- tantek: that invariant could be maintained
- 18:53:39 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i think that's possible
- 18:53:44 [smaug_]
- smaug_ has joined #webapps
- 18:53:47 [timeless]
- ... when the developer of a component
- 18:53:50 [timeless]
- ... relies on it to be a button
- 18:54:01 [timeless]
- ... if you want to have multiple things as a tree
- 18:54:08 [timeless]
- ... that's definitely possible
- 18:54:15 [timeless]
- sicking: it introduces complexity
- 18:54:23 [timeless]
- ... roughly Multiple Inheritance in C++
- 18:54:41 [timeless]
- ... it's very powerful, but very complicated
- 18:54:50 [timeless]
- dglazkov: it's just extending a prototype chain
- 18:54:54 [timeless]
- ... moving down the chain
- 18:55:12 [timeless]
- s/it's/[currently] it's/
- 18:55:27 [timeless]
- tantek: it seems like reinventing Java Class Hierarchies
- 18:55:37 [timeless]
- dglazkov: it's not reinventing
- 18:55:46 [timeless]
- ... just naturalizing JS inheritance into the DOM
- 18:56:13 [timeless]
- s/Present+ glenn//
- 18:56:23 [timeless]
- shepazu: in SVG we have the USE ELEMENT
- 18:56:33 [timeless]
- ... you have a use element, you reference an elemnt
- 18:56:37 [timeless]
- s/elemnt/element/
- 18:56:47 [timeless]
- ... and you get another instance
- 18:56:56 [timeless]
- ... but you can add attributes to the copy
- 18:57:00 [timeless]
- ... so you can have a plain star
- 18:57:07 [timeless]
- ... and then style one copy to green
- 18:57:08 [timeless]
- ... or red
- 18:57:17 [timeless]
- ... at TPAC, you said "No"
- 18:57:25 [timeless]
- ... is that still the answer?
- 18:57:34 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i think having the shadow tree with separate style
- 18:57:36 [timeless]
- ... has dragons
- 18:58:01 [timeless]
- shepazu: so we could reuse it?
- 18:58:13 [timeless]
- dglazkov: you will lose some of the invariants that the SVG spec provides
- 18:58:18 [timeless]
- ... but the way Shadow DOM is defined
- 18:59:14 [timeless]
- s/Present+ PaulKinlan//
- 18:59:31 [timeless]
- shepazu: i think all that SVG needs to keep
- 18:59:37 [timeless]
- ... is the way to style each instance separately
- 18:59:40 [timeless]
- dglazkov: that's possible today
- 18:59:49 [timeless]
- ... SVG uses Shadow DOM in a very limited way
- 18:59:53 [timeless]
- ... it doesn't have insertion points
- 18:59:58 [timeless]
- ... if you want to extend to that
- 19:00:02 [timeless]
- ... it's OMG
- 19:00:09 [timeless]
- ArtB: from a procedural perspective
- 19:00:14 [timeless]
- ... we agreed to a CfC for Shadow DOM
- 19:00:20 [timeless]
- ... what about Template Spec?
- 19:00:32 [timeless]
- dglazkov: I think Template Spec, as it is right now, we're going to kill it
- 19:00:45 [timeless]
- ... and we'll pursue it in HTML
- 19:00:54 [timeless]
- ... in "Custom Elements"
- 19:01:02 [timeless]
- rafaelw: I think that's fine
- 19:01:10 [timeless]
- ArtB: so we're not going to publish this
- 19:01:19 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we're probably not going to publish it
- 19:01:32 [timeless]
- rafaelw: one of the more salient issues of the template element spec
- 19:01:34 [timeless]
- ... is two things
- 19:01:45 [timeless]
- ... what mechanism creates inertness
- 19:01:50 [timeless]
- ... and where do those elements reside?
- 19:02:00 [timeless]
- ... on the ML, there was a propose that they be lifted out
- 19:02:11 [timeless]
- ... there was an item about it being objectionable
- 19:02:17 [timeless]
- ... if we can sort out that
- 19:02:27 [timeless]
- ... i think that's the most useful+controversial part
- 19:02:37 [timeless]
- ... if we can get consensus on that, i think we can get progress
- 19:02:43 [timeless]
- [ Time Check ]
- 19:02:53 [timeless]
- anne: hsivonen, abarth, jgraham are not here
- 19:03:05 [timeless]
- anne: hober is here
- 19:03:28 [timeless]
- anne: basically you lock out XHTML uses of templates
- 19:03:50 [timeless]
- hober: all things being equal, we shouldn't introduce more divergence between HTML and XHTML
- 19:03:58 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we have a Mexican Standoff
- 19:04:03 [timeless]
- ... between should we hurt XHTML
- 19:04:05 [ArtB]
- Present+ Alex_Komoroske
- 19:04:12 [timeless]
- ... vs. should we introduce something very non performant
- 19:04:17 [MikeSmith]
- cough TAG cough
- 19:04:39 [timeless]
- ojan: Ojan, Chrome, Member
- 19:04:53 [hober]
- s/Chrome/Google/
- 19:05:01 [shepazu]
- Alex Komoroske
- 19:05:01 [timeless]
- komoroske: Alex Komoroske, Google, Observer
- 19:05:22 [timeless]
- anne: elements inserted based on the template element
- 19:05:28 [timeless]
- ... you don't want them to be in
- 19:05:35 [timeless]
- ... because they cost resources
- 19:05:44 [timeless]
- ... and are exposed by QuerySelectAll/etc
- 19:05:53 [ArtB]
- Present+ Ojan_Vafai
- 19:05:56 [timeless]
- dglazkov: can we modify the XHTMLParser?
- 19:06:03 [timeless]
- anne: I have a draft that tries to modify XHTML parsing
- 19:06:07 [timeless]
- ... but it hasn't ...
- 19:06:13 [timeless]
- dglazkov: can we CfC dropping XHTML?
- 19:06:16 [timeless]
- [ laughter ]
- 19:06:26 [timeless]
- s/XHTML/XML/
- 19:06:38 [timeless]
- chaals: there's a proposal to make XML a kinder gentler beast
- 19:06:59 [timeless]
- anne: there's a big leap for moving things into a detached dom tree
- 19:07:02 [komoroske]
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- 19:07:04 [timeless]
- ... it's cool and works for me
- 19:07:06 [MikeSmith]
- need a magic namespace
- 19:07:21 [timeless]
- ... but i don't think it would fly for others
- 19:07:33 [timeless]
- tross_: technically, it's inserted into the tree
- 19:07:39 [timeless]
- ... and then removed before anyone looks
- 19:07:46 [timeless]
- anne: the people who will care is the TAG
- 19:08:01 [timeless]
- ... and they want a document served as HTML or XHTML to behave the same
- 19:08:34 [timeless]
- paulc: More specifically, the Director cares
- 19:08:41 [sicking]
- q+
- 19:08:46 [timeless]
- chaals: changing XML is like changing the W3C Patent Policy
- 19:08:50 [timeless]
- ... but it isn't written in Stone
- 19:08:54 [timeless]
- ... it's on a wiki somewhere
- 19:09:06 [MikeSmith]
- q+ to suggest, for now, note this as a known issue, document the rationale, move on
- 19:09:08 [timeless]
- anne: we can say "we want to do this in html"
- 19:09:08 [shepazu]
- q-
- 19:09:14 [timeless]
- ... we don't think it will work in xml
- 19:09:26 [timeless]
- paulc: make a comment on the html wg's document
- 19:09:30 [timeless]
- anne: that's done, there's a bug
- 19:09:39 [timeless]
- ... but that won't get TAG attention until it ships
- 19:09:49 [timeless]
- ojan: no one has an alternative proposal that's technically feasible
- 19:09:58 [timeless]
- ... every other proposal has serious technical problems
- 19:10:06 [timeless]
- anne: if you don't address hiding from DOM Query
- 19:10:22 [timeless]
- ojan: and every future api that might do a network request or live action request
- 19:10:27 [timeless]
- ... needs to be template aware
- 19:10:35 [timeless]
- anne: in effect everyone needs to be aware
- 19:10:47 [timeless]
- shepazu: can we introduce the feature and say "does not work with xml"
- 19:10:54 [timeless]
- ... and let them solve it?
- 19:11:00 [timeless]
- anne: we already have that, it's called <noscript>
- 19:11:15 [timeless]
- dglazkov: we could also say we require an esoteric changes
- 19:11:25 [timeless]
- sicking: if i were to do this in Gecko
- 19:11:29 [timeless]
- ... i wouldn't touch Expat
- 19:11:41 [timeless]
- ... i'd change how the tree constructor handles events from Expat
- 19:11:49 [timeless]
- ... i don't think we need to violate XML
- 19:11:58 [timeless]
- ... wasn't there a proposal to stick things into <script> tags?
- 19:12:04 [timeless]
- dglazkov: there was
- 19:12:13 [timeless]
- sicking: although that also doesn't work in XML
- 19:12:23 [MikeSmith]
- q-
- 19:12:30 [timeless]
- chaals: we can say "hey world, we're going to upset your apple cart/orchard"
- 19:12:37 [timeless]
- ... and see if they care
- 19:12:39 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: +1
- 19:12:49 [timeless]
- anne: you definitely violate the spirit
- 19:12:51 [sicking]
- q-
- 19:12:54 [timeless]
- chaals: there's no question that it makes a mess
- 19:13:17 [timeless]
- tantek: if you're using XML, can't you use XSLT?
- 19:13:55 [timeless]
- dglazkov: resolution: we'll try to spec it as "doesn't work in XML"
- 19:14:03 [timeless]
- tantek: I don't think it's Apple Specific
- 19:14:06 [timeless]
- [ Laughter ]
- 19:14:38 [timeless]
- ArtB: dglazkov, have you thought about publishing the Explainer?
- 19:14:42 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i thought about it
- 19:14:50 [timeless]
- ... but it seems like a sequencing issue
- 19:15:00 [timeless]
- chaals: it makes sense to do it
- 19:15:05 [timeless]
- dglazkov: i can reformat it
- 19:15:10 [timeless]
- ... update it (for Shadow DOM
- 19:15:13 [timeless]
- s/DOM/DOM)/
- 19:15:16 [timeless]
- ... and then publish
- 19:15:18 [timeless]
- shepazu: i can help
- 19:15:52 [timeless]
- dglazkov: if you guys have time
- 19:16:03 [timeless]
- ... please dig into Shadow DOM and help me eliminate non MUSTy stuff
- 19:16:09 [timeless]
- anne: there might be a lot of those things
- 19:16:17 [ArtB]
- ACTION: barstow start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Web Components Explainer (when an ED with TR template is available)
- 19:16:17 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-659 - Start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Web Components Explainer (when an ED with TR template is available) [on Arthur Barstow - due 2012-05-08].
- 19:16:18 [timeless]
- dglazkov: I do spend a lot of time staring at the spec
- 19:16:26 [timeless]
- ... but it's hard for the person who wrote something to see its faults
- 19:16:37 [timeless]
- ... any more questions?
- 19:16:52 [timeless]
- chaals: thank you dglazkov
- 19:16:55 [timeless]
- [ Applause ]
- 19:17:08 [timeless]
- chaals: let's have an hour for lunch. Resume at 1:30pm
- 19:17:14 [timeless]
- Topic: Web Intents
- 19:17:27 [dglazkov]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webcomponents/raw-file/tip/spec/shadow/index.html
- 19:17:44 [timeless]
- s/Bryan:/bryan:/g
- 19:20:36 [timeless]
- s/Present+ Tony Ross/Present+ Tony_Ross/
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- 20:36:11 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 20:36:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
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- 20:39:43 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: Hi, turns out I'm a member
- 20:39:48 [timeless]
- ... as of a couple of hours ago
- 20:40:00 [sicking]
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- 20:40:02 [timeless]
- ... we're going to talk about web intents
- 20:40:06 [timeless]
- ... i want to give you a demo
- 20:40:17 [timeless]
- ... i don't know how much you know about what we're trying to achieve
- 20:40:39 [timeless]
- [ We try to get projector projecting ]
- 20:40:54 [timeless]
- [ Lights go out ]
- 20:41:03 [timeless]
- [ chaals: Nope, that's not the one ]
- 20:41:57 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: there are a couple of UCs where it's very hard to build integrations
- 20:41:59 [timeless]
- ... with third parties
- 20:42:07 [timeless]
- ... the whole point is that even though we have widgets
- 20:42:13 [timeless]
- ... there's no way to make integrations
- 20:42:19 [timeless]
- ... the biggest common action is Share
- 20:42:23 [timeless]
- ... the next is Bookmark
- 20:42:30 [timeless]
- ... but things people want to do:
- 20:42:37 [timeless]
- ... Edit Documents, Pick resources
- 20:42:43 [timeless]
- ... we want to make this easy
- 20:42:51 [timeless]
- ... let someone pick something from their cloud storage
- 20:43:13 [timeless]
- [ Projector had temporarily done something positive ]
- 20:43:17 [timeless]
- [ Projector failed ]
- 20:43:26 [timeless]
- [ adrianba: I just pressed random things until it worked ]
- 20:43:52 [timeless]
- [ shepazu: that's how they do most things ]
- 20:43:54 [timeless]
- [ Laughter ]
- 20:44:01 [shepazu]
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- 20:44:05 [gbillock]
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- 20:44:07 [timeless]
- [ chaals: alright, do the interpretive dance ]
- 20:44:26 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: there are a couple of common actions
- 20:44:27 [bryan]
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- 20:44:30 [timeless]
- ... that we think are core to the web
- 20:44:33 [timeless]
- ... users do common things:
- 20:44:35 [timeless]
- ... share data
- 20:44:42 [timeless]
- ... save physical data to things (like Drop Box)
- 20:44:51 [timeless]
- ... they pick data from things (Word Document, Image, Video)
- 20:45:08 [timeless]
- ... they could pick from Flickr, Drop Box, YouTube
- 20:45:20 [timeless]
- ... one of the things I was going to show (in the demo) was Imagemator
- 20:45:34 [timeless]
- ... what we would see on the screen is a big button that says "Choose image"
- 20:45:50 [timeless]
- ... the browser knows which services you use
- 20:46:02 [timeless]
- ... the demo would let you pick from Picasa
- 20:46:19 [timeless]
- ... Picasa doesn't use Intents, but it has a public API which lets you do it
- 20:46:29 [timeless]
- ... You can do server to server work
- 20:46:37 [timeless]
- ... but we're starting to see purely client side applications
- 20:46:44 [timeless]
- ... a lot of their functionality is built on the client
- 20:46:55 [timeless]
- ... when you have applications sharing lots of data (Video, ...)
- 20:47:03 [timeless]
- ... the data might be local to your network
- 20:47:08 [timeless]
- ... or proximate to your network
- 20:47:17 [timeless]
- ... we'd like to let these two applications talk directly
- 20:47:19 [timeless]
- ... like a bridge
- 20:47:27 [timeless]
- ... we have demos that do both
- 20:47:34 [timeless]
- ... need a network, or client side resolution
- 20:47:44 [timeless]
- ... where we literally process a blob
- 20:47:52 [timeless]
- ... the demo itself doesn't do much work
- 20:47:54 [anne]
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- 20:48:04 [timeless]
- ... it finds a service that does editing
- 20:48:09 [smaug_]
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- 20:48:15 [timeless]
- ... if the browser doesn't have a service for a thing
- 20:48:37 [timeless]
- ... the browser can use an indexing service (store, search engine)
- 20:48:40 [timeless]
- ... to discover a service
- 20:48:47 [timeless]
- ... In the demo, you'd press edit
- 20:48:52 [timeless]
- ... you don't have anything installed
- 20:48:59 [timeless]
- ... the Chrome Store would be searched
- 20:49:38 [anne]
- link to the demo?
- 20:49:51 [timeless]
- ... you'd pick Picnik
- 20:50:18 [timeless]
- s|anne link to demo?|-> http://demos.webintents.org/ Web Intents Demos|
- 20:50:25 [timeless]
- s|link to demo?|-> http://demos.webintents.org/ Web Intents Demos|
- 20:50:53 [miketaylr]
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- 20:51:05 [anne]
- ah
- 20:51:14 [dveditz]
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- 20:51:15 [timeless]
- s|ah|-> http://www.imagemator.com/ Imagemator|
- 20:51:17 [chaals]
- q+
- 20:51:27 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 20:51:27 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 20:51:28 [timeless]
- DanD: have you looked into a scenario
- 20:51:38 [timeless]
- ... where the application developer wants to choose a certain instance
- 20:51:48 [timeless]
- ... say I'm a photo sharing service and I want to choose Picnik
- 20:51:59 [timeless]
- ... I want to do it in a way that makes sense
- 20:52:04 [timeless]
- ... not to choose a default intent
- 20:52:07 [Arnaud]
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- 20:52:09 [timeless]
- ... but a specific case
- 20:52:17 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: We've talked about that in the TF
- 20:52:21 [timeless]
- ... an "Explicit Intent"
- 20:52:27 [timeless]
- ... say you're photoshop.com
- 20:52:32 [timeless]
- ... You want to be open to discovery
- 20:52:46 [timeless]
- ... however you've got specific integration with
- 20:52:58 [timeless]
- DanD: and the user should be able to override in the end?
- 20:53:10 [timeless]
- gbillock: explicit intents, it's unclear whether they will be overridable
- 20:53:20 [timeless]
- ... explicit intents let web content make the picker
- 20:53:44 [timeless]
- ... and letting web developers use Web Intents for internal RPC
- 20:54:02 [timeless]
- ... the way that you could bring up a browser guaranteed redress proof UI
- 20:54:07 [timeless]
- ... is interesting
- 20:54:26 [timeless]
- ... we're hoping with experimentation we'll figure that out
- 20:54:32 [timeless]
- chaals: the answer is that it should be overridable
- 20:54:39 [timeless]
- shepazu: it should be up to the UA
- 20:54:45 [timeless]
- chaals: if you have a local installed application
- 20:54:49 [timeless]
- ... it should work
- 20:54:57 [timeless]
- ... say you don't want to use photoshop.com
- 20:55:00 [timeless]
- ... you want to use photoshop
- 20:55:08 [timeless]
- gbillock: that's totally within scope
- 20:55:19 [timeless]
- ... we definitely want to be able to build a bridge between web apps and local apps
- 20:55:27 [timeless]
- ... for some embedders like OSs
- 20:55:30 [timeless]
- ... like Android
- 20:55:41 [timeless]
- ... there ought to be a way to create a mapping
- 20:55:50 [timeless]
- ... or Windows 8's "Contracts"
- 20:56:06 [timeless]
- ... you shouldn't be able to just go from a web app to photoshop
- 20:56:17 [timeless]
- ... but also from photoshop to say save to your dropbox
- 20:56:28 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: we also want to be able to do picking
- 20:56:37 [timeless]
- s/picking/viewing/
- 20:56:42 [timeless]
- ... it should be easy to do Open With
- 20:56:58 [timeless]
- gbillock: currently the spec is focused on what you do for the Web Page
- 20:57:05 [timeless]
- ... there's language to say that this isn't the only way
- 20:57:11 [timeless]
- ... saying that there should be a local execution model
- 20:57:16 [timeless]
- ... but that's left up to the UA
- 20:57:25 [timeless]
- chaals: how do you go with AppCache
- 20:57:35 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: we've done a lot of experimentation with AppCache
- 20:57:42 [timeless]
- ... we've experimented with RPC/RPH
- 20:57:58 [timeless]
- ... it's hard to get things to work with AppCache'd content
- 20:58:06 [timeless]
- chaals: because it sucks
- 20:58:20 [chaals]
- s/chaals: because it sucks//
- 20:58:23 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: most people use a query string with RPH
- 20:58:34 [ericu]
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- 20:58:38 [timeless]
- ... but Intents uses something different, so it could work
- 20:58:47 [timeless]
- magnus: you said you could have a UA
- 20:58:53 [timeless]
- ... that could download it using a search engine
- 20:59:01 [timeless]
- ... what happens while it's being retrieved
- 20:59:18 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: the implementation in Chrome
- 20:59:26 [timeless]
- ... does the query using the web store (http)
- 20:59:30 [timeless]
- ... the API itself is Async
- 20:59:39 [timeless]
- ... the UA pops up the picker
- 20:59:45 [timeless]
- ... but the page isn't blocked
- 20:59:52 [timeless]
- ... if you have no networking
- 21:00:00 [timeless]
- ... then there might be no options for the user
- 21:00:08 [timeless]
- ... but how that works is up to the UA
- 21:00:15 [timeless]
- ... and because it's Async, that shouldn't affect the page
- 21:00:28 [timeless]
- gbillock: the idea that a user might be trapped with no options
- 21:00:38 [timeless]
- ... is definitely unappealing to developers
- 21:00:52 [timeless]
- ... one possibility is to let clients query to see if things are installed
- 21:00:57 [timeless]
- ... but that leads to fingerprinting
- 21:01:01 [timeless]
- ... that's a weak supercookie
- 21:01:06 [timeless]
- ... instead the direciton we're trying to go
- 21:01:13 [timeless]
- s/direciton/direction/
- 21:01:21 [timeless]
- ... is to let client applications provide fallback suggestions
- 21:01:28 [timeless]
- ... that the UA can use if the picker would otherwise be empty
- 21:01:41 [timeless]
- ... instead of being empty, you might see DropBox or whatever
- 21:01:55 [timeless]
- ... our current experimental implementation uses the chrome web store
- 21:02:00 [timeless]
- ... so they have to be installable
- 21:02:05 [timeless]
- ... the end state we'd want to get io
- 21:02:08 [timeless]
- s/io/to/
- 21:02:17 [timeless]
- ... is to have a web for web pages to identify themselves as services
- 21:02:24 [timeless]
- ... we've been discussing that in the HTML WG
- 21:02:28 [timeless]
- ... do we have an <intent> tag
- 21:02:32 [timeless]
- ... or ...
- 21:02:43 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 21:02:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html ArtB
- 21:02:44 [timeless]
- ... It looks like Hixie is most favorable to having an <intent> tag
- 21:02:54 [timeless]
- ... but combining RPC, RPH, <intent> together
- 21:02:59 [timeless]
- ... so they'd look the same for users
- 21:03:12 [timeless]
- ... giving us both Imperative and Declarative
- 21:03:18 [timeless]
- ... and the same User Facing appearance
- 21:03:22 [chaals]
- q?
- 21:03:27 [timeless]
- anne: what Hixie said was quite reasonable
- 21:03:40 [timeless]
- ... that still doesn't say how you identify an app
- 21:03:52 [timeless]
- gbillock: Gmail would say use RPH for mailto:
- 21:03:58 [timeless]
- ... and register <intent>
- 21:04:06 [timeless]
- anne: on my web page, i have a contact form
- 21:04:14 [timeless]
- ... and i have a send me an email link
- 21:04:40 [gbillock]
- http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/web-intents/raw-file/tip/spec/Overview.html
- 21:04:52 [timeless]
- s|http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/web-intents/raw-file/tip/spec/Overview.html|-">http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/web-intents/raw-file/tip/spec/Overview.html|-> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/web-intents/raw-file/tip/spec/Overview.html Web Intents specification|
- 21:05:01 [timeless]
- gbillock: if you look at 3.1
- 21:05:04 [shepazu]
- q+ to ask about "inlining services" into a page with intents
- 21:05:15 [timeless]
- ... there'd be a services parameter
- 21:05:24 [timeless]
- gbillock: in chrome
- 21:05:28 [timeless]
- ... the picker is a list of optional services
- 21:05:38 [timeless]
- ... the top having items the user has used
- 21:05:46 [timeless]
- ... possibly it would query the store
- 21:05:58 [timeless]
- anne: if the developer provides urls
- 21:06:03 [timeless]
- ... what do you show?
- 21:06:08 [timeless]
- ... not just the url?
- 21:06:14 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 21:06:14 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 21:06:16 [timeless]
- gbillock: no, the page title + favicon, probably
- 21:06:24 [timeless]
- ... or if we've processed it, something else
- 21:06:33 [timeless]
- chaals: I want to go back to overrides
- 21:06:40 [timeless]
- ... the UC will come from Accessibility
- 21:06:46 [mattkelly]
- mattkelly has joined #webapps
- 21:07:10 [timeless]
- ... if you made a request for an Explicit Intent
- 21:07:39 [timeless]
- ... it should be possible to pick something else
- 21:07:46 [timeless]
- ... if you pass off text, then anything can
- 21:07:51 [timeless]
- ... but if you pass word97 documents
- 21:07:57 [timeless]
- ... then there are some other things that can handle it
- 21:08:07 [timeless]
- shepazu: obviously, if i have something, i can describe it
- 21:08:16 [timeless]
- ... is there any other way to give information to the user?
- 21:08:24 [timeless]
- gbillock: in the picker itself?
- 21:08:46 [timeless]
- ... the client presents the initial messaging to the user
- 21:09:04 [abarsto]
- abarsto has joined #webapps
- 21:09:15 [timeless]
- shepazu: is there a way to give a description of the requested action?
- 21:09:43 [shepazu]
- s/description/human-readable description/
- 21:09:50 [timeless]
- gbillock: the UA has the complete Intent call bundled up
- 21:09:52 [timeless]
- ... what the action is
- 21:09:55 [timeless]
- ... what the type is
- 21:09:59 [timeless]
- ... any extra data
- 21:10:07 [timeless]
- ... the UA has to use that
- 21:10:13 [timeless]
- ... it can definitely customize itself
- 21:10:27 [timeless]
- ... to say "which of these services do you want to use to edit a contact"
- 21:10:47 [shepazu]
- q?
- 21:10:50 [timeless]
- ... we got a bit of feedback from UI people to provide per action wording
- 21:10:51 [shepazu]
- ack chaals
- 21:11:27 [timeless]
- [ We have a projected Cosmos ]
- 21:11:42 [timeless]
- Topic: Web Intents Demo
- 21:11:58 [timeless]
- gbillock: Selection refers to the picker
- 21:12:13 [timeless]
- ... since the UA is in charge of that
- 21:12:30 [timeless]
- ... the UA can be arbitrarily sophisticated in terms of coaching the User
- 21:12:59 [timeless]
- Topic: Web Intents Demo
- 21:13:21 [chaals]
- hi
- 21:13:29 [timeless]
- s|hi|-> http://www.imagemator.com/ Imagemator|
- 21:13:39 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: this is Imagemator
- 21:13:46 [timeless]
- [ Clicks Choose Image ]
- 21:14:04 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: these are the user's services
- 21:14:10 [timeless]
- ... and these are the store services
- 21:14:26 [timeless]
- ... I'll use ... CloudFilePicker.com
- 21:14:30 [timeless]
- ... this is Picasa
- 21:14:39 [timeless]
- ... it isn't direct, it's via the Picasa API
- 21:14:56 [timeless]
- [ Picks a face with two phones pasted ]
- 21:14:57 [timeless]
- [ Laughter ]
- 21:15:05 [timeless]
- [ Clicks Edit ]
- 21:15:23 [timeless]
- ... I'll pick Mememator, i haven't installed it
- 21:15:34 [timeless]
- ... this has no server to server logic
- 21:15:45 [timeless]
- ... eventually this will work offline
- 21:16:08 [timeless]
- ... I'll pick Inspirationmator
- 21:16:20 [timeless]
- [ Enters Practice Demos; They work ]
- 21:16:44 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: The UA passes the data around
- 21:16:56 [timeless]
- glenn: does this pass data around retain tainting?
- 21:17:02 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: not in this case
- 21:17:12 [timeless]
- ... in here, the canvas isn't tainting
- 21:17:59 [timeless]
- ... I want to show two actions "Share blob" and "Share page"
- 21:18:20 [timeless]
- ... Web Intents can handle both
- 21:18:30 [timeless]
- adrianba: who decides what to be shared?
- 21:18:47 [timeless]
- ... in the Windows 8 contracts, we publish different options
- 21:18:54 [timeless]
- ... the link, the link with metadata, the html
- 21:18:58 [timeless]
- shepazu: like clipboard
- 21:19:03 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: like clipboard
- 21:19:11 [timeless]
- ... right now, the application invokes one type
- 21:19:15 [timeless]
- ... saying i'm invoking the Image
- 21:19:36 [timeless]
- ... the link would be the physical image, and not a reference
- 21:19:42 [timeless]
- gbillock: there are two strings
- 21:19:45 [timeless]
- ... for match making
- 21:19:49 [timeless]
- ... the actions and the type
- 21:19:57 [timeless]
- ... the actions must match exactly
- 21:20:12 [timeless]
- ... and types must match, or if they're mime types must overlap
- 21:20:16 [smaug_]
- smaug_ has joined #webapps
- 21:20:19 [timeless]
- ... if twitter knows to share Images, Links, or Videos
- 21:20:26 [timeless]
- ... then it would register for 3 distinct things
- 21:20:41 [timeless]
- ... so you get a footprint over all the things you understand
- 21:20:48 [timeless]
- ... that's our theory right now
- 21:20:57 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: the client application says it will do one thing
- 21:21:13 [timeless]
- ... your application will say it can support three types of data
- 21:21:27 [timeless]
- ... we might need to change it so you can offer one of two things as a request
- 21:21:38 [timeless]
- adrianba: there's a problem where you have multiple datatypes with precedence
- 21:21:46 [timeless]
- ... but it seems that like now the onus is on the user right now
- 21:21:56 [timeless]
- ... i know that twitter can take: page link, page link+title
- 21:22:11 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: i think the onus is on the Client app to pick sensible types
- 21:22:30 [timeless]
- adrianba: as a user of the source app
- 21:22:48 [timeless]
- ... i have to know which button to pick to trigger to the destination app i have
- 21:23:00 [timeless]
- Paul_Kinlan: right now, our apps have one definitive type/action
- 21:23:11 [timeless]
- ... share was kind of interesting
- 21:23:23 [timeless]
- ... because very few apps share physical data
- 21:23:26 [timeless]
- ... most share data
- 21:23:37 [timeless]
- shepazu: i agree with adrianba, share is ambiguous
- 21:23:41 [timeless]
- q+ to talk about Share v. Save
- 21:24:04 [timeless]
- shepazu: look at facebook
- 21:24:08 [timeless]
- ... at one point you only shared a link
- 21:24:16 [timeless]
- ... now it also embeds some of the content
- 21:24:37 [timeless]
- gbillock: the thing starting the activity is the client
- 21:24:42 [timeless]
- ... and the thing performing is the service
- 21:24:49 [chaals]
- ack shepazu
- 21:24:49 [Zakim]
- shepazu, you wanted to ask about "inlining services" into a page with intents
- 21:24:56 [timeless]
- shepazu: i think there will need to be a negotation
- 21:25:10 [adrianba]
- q?
- 21:25:13 [chaals]
- q+ shepazu
- 21:25:21 [plh]
- plh has joined #webapps
- 21:25:32 [timeless]
- gbillock: the question of how complicated the handshake should be
- 21:25:37 [timeless]
- ... is obviously
- 21:25:47 [timeless]
- ... in order for this to work, the ecosystem has to agree
- 21:26:01 [timeless]
- ... Facebook/G+ occasionally figure out what you meant
- 21:26:25 [timeless]
- ... with that in mind, we've erred on the side of no negotation
- 21:26:36 [timeless]
- ... expand what you except
- 21:26:53 [timeless]
- anne: i think for most user how to pick a service will be complicated enough
- 21:27:05 [timeless]
- gbillock: we decided to burden the service to enumerate what it supports
- 21:27:24 [timeless]
- anne: maybe you should have a way for the client to offer multiple at a time
- 21:27:33 [timeless]
- ... and let the service indicate its preferred payload
- 21:27:52 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: this is not "Paste Special"
- 21:27:55 [timeless]
- shepazu: the user is stupid
- 21:27:59 [timeless]
- anne: the user has better things to do
- 21:28:06 [timeless]
- ack me
- 21:28:06 [Zakim]
- timeless, you wanted to talk about Share v. Save
- 21:28:17 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 21:28:25 [chaals]
- scribe: chaals
- 21:28:30 [adrianba]
- q+ to talk about example of sharing a page
- 21:28:32 [shepazu]
- s/stupid/stupid (sarcastically)/
- 21:28:58 [chaals]
- timeless: I made a trip and tried to sign in. I could print a PDF or follow a link. I would like to decide to send it somewhere.
- 21:29:19 [chaals]
- ... you were expecting me to send it via a sharing service, but I want to save it somewhere and then use that to do my sharing.
- 21:29:32 [chaals]
- gbillock: You want to be able to translate the intents?
- 21:29:41 [chaals]
- timeless: I am saying they are the same thing
- 21:30:06 [chaals]
- paulk: I don't have an answer - there are different things that people expect from what they see.
- 21:30:37 [chaals]
- ... I don't think we don't want to fire two intents, or people will end up publishing washing lists of services that do everything.
- 21:31:06 [DanD]
- q?
- 21:31:15 [chaals]
- timeless: fallback is to have trasnlator intents. Doable and I want to make it easy - but I see share and save as the same.
- 21:31:47 [DanD]
- q+
- 21:31:48 [chaals]
- ... I can print to my device, rather than on paper. It is really a save, but as far as the computer is concerned it is a print.
- 21:32:20 [chaals]
- Paulk: Share was a broadcast, save was putting it somewhere. I can see the mental models behind this, but we have to work on this
- 21:32:42 [chaals]
- gbillock: The API doesn't spell out the verbs. It is an invocation of delivery leaving things open for usage to coalesce.
- 21:33:01 [chaals]
- ... reason common verbs are useful is that they give a way t develop a good expectation to agree on what you are trying to do.
- 21:33:22 [chaals]
- ... There are edge cases which are hard to think about - should a kindle support print and share and save?
- 21:33:28 [timeless]
- s/way t/way to/
- 21:33:38 [timeless]
- q?
- 21:33:41 [chaals]
- ... we're waiting to see what happens with usage - what emergent verbs there are.
- 21:34:01 [timeless]
- ack shepazu
- 21:34:04 [chaals]
- kamos: we are waiting to get feedback.
- 21:34:25 [chaals]
- shepazu: In your demo you open a tab for the events. It might be interesting to be able to load a service inline on a page...
- 21:34:34 [rniwa]
- rniwa has joined #webapps
- 21:35:00 [chaals]
- paulk: we have two dispositions. All these demos use new tab, for transitory implementation motivations (bugs)
- 21:35:12 [chaals]
- ... there is an inline disposition that should be able to do that.
- 21:35:44 [chaals]
- ... let's you see the context, it is relatively unspoofable, it is an area we have been wary of.
- 21:35:54 [chaals]
- s/unspoo/spoo/
- 21:36:04 [chaals]
- ... we weren't confident that we could make it secure.
- 21:36:28 [chaals]
- shepazu: can't you have a UI option where the user gets to choose how it appears?
- 21:36:40 [chaals]
- ... eg in maps I want to have something within a page.
- 21:36:48 [chaals]
- paulk: we want to xplore it but haven't.
- 21:37:21 [chaals]
- gbillock: the obstacle is that the service has to provide an iframeable interface, which is subject to attack and we haven't figured out how to solve that yet.
- 21:37:27 [tantek]
- q+ to ask how broad is the scope of intents and cross-application services, e.g. some examples discussed seem similar to OpenDoc/OLE, especially in local client-app to client-app content/service handling.
- 21:37:39 [chaals]
- ... we are expecting a proposal from someone so we will see what happens.
- 21:37:47 [chaals]
- ack adr
- 21:37:47 [Zakim]
- adrianba, you wanted to talk about example of sharing a page
- 21:38:19 [chaals]
- adrianba: wanted to give an example from windows. We have contracts, and share contract is one of them. The browser supports the idea of sharing a page. User decides to share a page.
- 21:38:43 [chaals]
- ... browser is a client in web intents terms. Can share link, a link+metadata, or HTML snippet.
- 21:39:10 [timeless]
- s/paulk:/Paul_Kinlan:/G
- 21:39:12 [timeless]
- s/Paulk:/Paul_Kinlan:/G
- 21:39:18 [chaals]
- ... when I choose share, windows finds services that supports one of those formats. Twitter app might take links+data, a bookmark does something similar, email might use the full HTML snippet, ...
- 21:39:29 [timeless]
- s/paulc:/PaulC:/G
- 21:39:39 [chaals]
- ... we allow any service that responds to a type to appear. User doesn't have to think about the options.
- 21:39:50 [chaals]
- ... sounds like your model is the service say it can take one of those threee.
- 21:40:18 [chaals]
- Paul_Kinlan: We ahve a model where you can share a link. Once we have that we can go fetch more detail, and put it in the metadata pat of the intent.
- 21:40:29 [timeless]
- s/Dan_Druta:/DanD:/g
- 21:40:31 [ArtB]
- Present+ Yosuke_Funahashi
- 21:40:39 [chaals]
- ... you have a link plus extra metadata. Have to think about service applications - they can ignore data, read it if it is there.
- 21:41:00 [chaals]
- ... not all clients will share all data. In Android services don't populate metadata consistently.
- 21:41:16 [timeless]
- s/Present+ PaulKinlan//
- 21:41:38 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 21:41:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 21:41:56 [chaals]
- ... using name as a URL was based on describing a particular experience. Tell people how you do it, what to populate the data with. Was going to be a lot looser on definition, with people using URL as value for where the information will come from.
- 21:42:09 [chaals]
- ... both client and server would choose what they send/receive.
- 21:42:30 [chaals]
- adrianba: feels a lot less predictable about what the user is going to receive
- 21:42:37 [timeless]
- s|s/Present+ PaulKinlan//||
- 21:42:38 [chaals]
- ... what is the URL for, what can I do with that?
- 21:42:48 [MikeSmith]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 21:42:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html MikeSmith
- 21:42:52 [chaals]
- anne: doesn't the service also register types it accepts? I think you have teh same system.
- 21:43:15 [chaals]
- adrianba: if I ublish a url of something with an image, do I mean the page or the image on it?
- 21:43:24 [chaals]
- anne: thinki it makes more sense to send both.
- 21:44:04 [chaals]
- gbillock: one way to do both is an option we discarded (can reconsider). To integrate with types, we intend that it be possible to match a microdata type with complete schema capability...
- 21:44:19 [chaals]
- ... contact might be name+phone, or might have a lot more data there.
- 21:44:35 [chaals]
- ... idea is that user has a mental image of the service they are using.
- 21:44:49 [chaals]
- ... and so builds expectatoions of what is going to happen.
- 21:45:11 [chaals]
- ... There is flexibility in terms of how much payload is available to fill in for the service.
- 21:45:18 [chaals]
- ... weakness and strength.
- 21:45:23 [yosuke]
- yosuke has joined #webapps
- 21:45:42 [chaals]
- ... if your phone accepts a contact with no phone number., that seems wrong
- 21:45:46 [chaals]
- q?
- 21:46:00 [chaals]
- shepazu: Could you use this across multiple modalities?
- 21:46:17 [chaals]
- gbillock: We envisage the user agent being able to do things like use NFC to send stuff...
- 21:46:55 [chaals]
- DanD: Who is in control of selecting the directory of services?
- 21:47:14 [chaals]
- gbillock: User Agent. Services the user has installed that meet the required intent.
- 21:47:23 [chaals]
- DanD: who provides the list of options for what to install?
- 21:47:35 [shepazu]
- q+ to ask about a site registering itself as a service
- 21:47:42 [chaals]
- ... on mine it is meaningful - it gives me information about where the suggestions are coming from.
- 21:47:58 [chaals]
- ... good this is under control of the browser for sense of trust, user needs to know where the browser is going.
- 21:48:13 [chaals]
- ... side effect of that control limits discovery of other services which may be an issue.
- 21:48:25 [chaals]
- ... (vendor lock-in...)
- 21:48:39 [chaals]
- gbillock: Think client will be able to attach suggestions.
- 21:48:58 [timeless]
- q+ to note WAI concerns and Portability/Modality concerns
- 21:49:11 [chaals]
- DanD: more appropriate for app developer to recommend the directory, rather than having the user search the web. But you have to put the destination for searching into the user experience
- 21:49:20 [chaals]
- zakim, please close the queue
- 21:49:20 [Zakim]
- ok, chaals, the speaker queue is closed
- 21:50:00 [chaals]
- gbillock: this is a stock UI for inline installs. if there are suggestions from teh client side they show differently. Being able to attribute stuff comprehensibly matters...
- 21:50:02 [MikeSmith]
- q?
- 21:50:08 [MikeSmith]
- ack DanD
- 21:50:13 [timeless]
- s/teh/the/
- 21:50:17 [chaals]
- DanD: deja vu here - this is uddi/wsdl/etc again...
- 21:50:44 [chaals]
- ... there were some good developments done there, so looking for the lessons there is a good idea.
- 21:51:02 [chaals]
- ack tantek
- 21:51:02 [Zakim]
- tantek, you wanted to ask how broad is the scope of intents and cross-application services, e.g. some examples discussed seem similar to OpenDoc/OLE, especially in local client-app
- 21:51:06 [Zakim]
- ... to client-app content/service handling.
- 21:51:45 [chaals]
- tantek: deoms are awesome. scope is broader than I ahd understood. How broad is the scope intended to be?
- 21:52:03 [chaals]
- gbillock: spec is 'how pages invoke intents or get them delivered'
- 21:52:10 [chaals]
- ... leaves it up to the browser
- 21:52:33 [chaals]
- tantek: web apps, client apps, installed web apps are all in scope?
- 21:52:35 [timeless]
- present+ Ryosuke_Niwa
- 21:53:01 [chaals]
- ... that page has all the ability of HTML to send data anywhere, on the web or locally.
- 21:53:16 [chaals]
- tantek: including native apps?
- 21:53:32 [chaals]
- gbillock: in principle yes. we haven't done that yet, but it is in scope.
- 21:53:48 [timeless]
- s/ordinho/odinho/
- 21:54:04 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 21:54:04 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 21:54:15 [chaals]
- kam: scoped to websites, but could do this if there is demand.
- 21:54:43 [chaals]
- Paul_Kinlan: DAP is interested in this. We have been focused on webapp interactions. UA can provide a bridge to add native apps.
- 21:54:51 [chaals]
- tantek: do you know about opendoc and ola?
- 21:54:56 [timeless]
- s/PaulKinlan:/Paul_Kinlan:/g
- 21:55:05 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 21:55:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 21:55:08 [chaals]
- ... systems for applications doing this. Have you looked at that?
- 21:55:10 [chaals]
- gbillock: nope.
- 21:55:20 [chaals]
- q?
- 21:55:46 [chaals]
- ... there is IPR in that area that should be looked at.
- 21:56:10 [chaals]
- ... (I know because I did some of it)
- 21:56:53 [chaals]
- ack shepazu
- 21:56:53 [Zakim]
- shepazu, you wanted to ask about a site registering itself as a service
- 21:57:37 [chaals]
- shepazu: I am on flickr, it wants to tell me it can be a picker service. Is there something that lets them put something on their page so I can register it when I go there?
- 21:57:41 [chaals]
- gbillock: yep.
- 21:57:50 [timeless]
- s/I ahd/I had/
- 21:57:58 [tantek]
- for the minutes - s/ola/OLE
- 21:58:06 [chaals]
- ... right now we have experimental stuff, but yes we want to be able to do that through declarative syntax for the page.
- 21:58:08 [timeless]
- s|for the minutes - s/ola/OLE||
- 21:58:13 [timeless]
- s/ola/OLE/
- 21:58:39 [chaals]
- shepazu: if i share stuff with twitter, can I make that a default rather than picking every time?
- 21:58:51 [chaals]
- gbillock: spec leaves that to user agent, we expect that to be possible.
- 21:59:14 [chaals]
- timeless: having something is important to avoid security issues - you don't want a spamming site to get your twitter
- 21:59:27 [chaals]
- shepazu: there should be a user involvement to make sure
- 21:59:31 [chaals]
- gbillock: there is.
- 21:59:41 [timeless]
- ack me
- 21:59:41 [Zakim]
- timeless, you wanted to note WAI concerns and Portability/Modality concerns
- 21:59:41 [chaals]
- ack time
- 22:00:12 [ArtB]
- q+ Web Intents on DAP f2f agenda in July
- 22:01:05 [chaals]
- timeless: if the client page is making a request and can force a directry that doesn't work for my device, or have an accessibility requirement for specialist services, or want a different language,
- 22:01:19 [chaals]
- ... the client might not have the right answer for the user.
- 22:01:30 [chaals]
- DanD: we already have scripts taht pick stuff...
- 22:01:43 [chaals]
- timeless: right, but they are not necessarily useful for a new device.
- 22:01:45 [timeless]
- s/taht/that/
- 22:02:07 [chaals]
- DanD: agree there may be an incompatibility. Would rather have app eveloper test and verify than have the user agent assume the thing will work.
- 22:02:21 [timeless]
- s/eveloper/developer/
- 22:02:27 [timeless]
- [ Break until 3:30 ]
- 22:04:53 [plh]
- -> https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=42538 Current group participants
- 22:12:27 [rogerk]
- rogerk has joined #webapps
- 22:27:39 [komoroske]
- komoroske has joined #webapps
- 22:30:27 [glenn]
- glenn has joined #webapps
- 22:31:40 [chaals]
- chaals has joined #webapps
- 22:31:47 [sicking]
- sicking has joined #webapps
- 22:31:51 [rniwa]
- rniwa has joined #webapps
- 22:32:01 [Paul_Kinlan]
- Paul_Kinlan has joined #webapps
- 22:32:07 [abarsto]
- abarsto has joined #webapps
- 22:32:07 [Arnaud]
- Arnaud has joined #webapps
- 22:33:02 [timeless]
- Topic: Push SMS
- 22:33:15 [timeless]
- chaals: we have an item in the Charter for Server Sent Events
- 22:33:18 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #webapps
- 22:33:24 [timeless]
- ... the to things people have come up with are Push SMS stuff
- 22:33:41 [timeless]
- ... and a notification that can wake up / remotely start an app (web page)
- 22:33:43 [MikeSmith]
- MikeSmith has joined #webapps
- 22:33:47 [timeless]
- ... i'll hand the floor to bryan
- 22:34:52 [chaals]
- [Yosuke Funahashi introduces himself - co-chair of TV/Web IG]
- 22:35:05 [timeless]
- yosuke: Yosuke Funahashi
- 22:35:32 [timeless]
- s|Funahashi|Funahashi, co-chair of TV/Web IG|
- 22:35:47 [miketaylr]
- miketaylr has joined #webapps
- 22:35:50 [timeless]
- bryan: I've taken the UCs and broken them into a set of
- 22:35:52 [ArtB]
- UCs: http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting/Push
- 22:36:00 [timeless]
- ... more discrete things which i'll call proto requirements/ideas
- 22:36:21 [anne]
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- 22:36:21 [timeless]
- s|UCs: http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting/Push|-">http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting/Push|-> http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/May2012F2FMeeting/Push Push UCs|
- 22:36:27 [tross]
- tross has joined #webapps
- 22:36:36 [timeless]
- ... there's a link to a w3-ified draft from within OMA
- 22:36:42 [ArtB]
- Draft Bryan mentioned: http://ddpsdk.net/tm/w3c/eventsource-push.html
- 22:36:45 [timeless]
- ... it doesn't address all of the requirements
- 22:37:17 [timeless]
- s|Draft Bryan mentioned: http://ddpsdk.net/tm/w3c/eventsource-push.html|-">http://ddpsdk.net/tm/w3c/eventsource-push.html|-> http://ddpsdk.net/tm/w3c/eventsource-push.html EventSource Push (Draft)|
- 22:37:32 [timeless]
- ... I've built this, and have a demo (which I won't try to show today)
- 22:37:47 [timeless]
- ... and there will be a social network demo called "Mobile Social Networking"
- 22:37:52 [gbillock]
- gbillock has joined #webapps
- 22:37:53 [timeless]
- ... at XXX
- 22:38:12 [timeless]
- ... we noticed that XMPP connections burn battery real fast
- 22:38:28 [timeless]
- ... I want to get notifications of things that are really asynchronous
- 22:38:40 [timeless]
- ... e.g. an auction watcher
- 22:38:56 [timeless]
- ... doesn't want to keep an application open
- 22:39:15 [timeless]
- ... until recently, you couldn't run a browser in the background on mobile devices
- 22:39:23 [timeless]
- ... the next UC is a WebRTC client
- 22:39:27 [timeless]
- ... the phone application/dialer
- 22:39:33 [timeless]
- ... it doesn't take over the screen until it needs to
- 22:39:43 [timeless]
- ... we need some way to register for wake up events
- 22:39:53 [timeless]
- ... we were looking for a way that was more seemless
- 22:40:29 [timeless]
- ... @ TPAC:WebApps last year
- 22:40:44 [timeless]
- ... there was a request that things not be so specific
- 22:40:55 [timeless]
- ... my proposal was based on my experience w/ SMS/OMA Push
- 22:41:12 [timeless]
- ... but we need to create a mapping between text-eventstream and these other things
- 22:41:49 [timeless]
- ... I ran into an issue involving blank lines
- 22:42:05 [timeless]
- ... Maybe we end up building on a processing model
- 22:43:02 [timeless]
- [ bryan is reading through the Push "Derived Requirements" section ]
- 22:43:09 [tantek]
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- 22:44:14 [timeless]
- bryan: there needs to be a way to provide filters
- 22:44:24 [chaals]
- q+ to ask where we go with this now...
- 22:44:31 [chaals]
- zakim, open the queue
- 22:44:31 [Zakim]
- ok, chaals, the speaker queue is open
- 22:44:35 [chaals]
- q+ to ask where we go with this now...
- 22:44:38 [yosuke]
- yosuke has joined #webapps
- 22:44:48 [timeless]
- ... the ability to deliver information to a web app before it shows a UI
- 22:45:46 [timeless]
- ... my draft proposal integrates CORS
- 22:45:52 [timeless]
- s/integrates/incorporates/
- 22:46:00 [timeless]
- ... to apply the browser security model
- 22:46:22 [chaals]
- s/Push SMS/Push notification/
- 22:46:22 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minues
- 22:46:22 [RRSAgent]
- I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minues', timeless. Try /msg RRSAgent help
- 22:46:26 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 22:46:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 22:46:55 [timeless]
- q?
- 22:46:59 [timeless]
- ack chaals
- 22:46:59 [Zakim]
- chaals, you wanted to ask where we go with this now...
- 22:47:04 [timeless]
- chaals: when this came into the charter
- 22:47:13 [timeless]
- ... i'm not sure if the people who wanted it are here
- 22:47:18 [timeless]
- [ sicking raises his hand ]
- 22:47:23 [timeless]
- chaals: you have a draft idea of a spec
- 22:47:32 [timeless]
- bryan: that may be fairly localized in application
- 22:47:40 [timeless]
- chaals: do you have this in web apps space?
- 22:47:42 [timeless]
- bryan: not yet
- 22:47:51 [timeless]
- chaals: so you're planning to edit this
- 22:47:57 [timeless]
- bryan: i could definitely support that
- 22:48:05 [timeless]
- ... i'm looking for expert input
- 22:48:10 [timeless]
- q?
- 22:48:13 [sicking]
- q+
- 22:48:25 [timeless]
- chaals: next step is to put it into w3 space
- 22:48:30 [timeless]
- ... and put it in the list of work items
- 22:48:45 [timeless]
- bryan: i'm hoping to have a conversation on things
- 22:48:51 [timeless]
- chaals: sure, but you start with an ED
- 22:48:54 [timeless]
- bryan: sure
- 22:48:58 [timeless]
- ack sicking
- 22:49:03 [timeless]
- sicking: "We"
- 22:49:06 [timeless]
- ... (loosely)
- 22:49:11 [sicking]
- http://jbalogh.me/2012/01/30/push-notifications/
- 22:49:11 [timeless]
- ... also have a draft proposal
- 22:49:42 [timeless]
- sicking: it doesn't cover everything from the proposal
- 22:49:47 [timeless]
- ... we could add things
- 22:50:00 [timeless]
- ... an application can say "i want to be able to send push notifications to the browser"
- 22:50:17 [timeless]
- ... the user agent allows the user to authorize that
- 22:50:36 [timeless]
- ... and if authorized, a URL is made available to the application
- 22:50:58 [timeless]
- ... and then it can use whichever applicable means to send messages back to the UA/page
- 22:51:09 [timeless]
- ... it should be integratable with Apple's push protocol
- 22:51:20 [timeless]
- ... currently you can't deliver that message to a particular page
- 22:51:28 [timeless]
- ... it shows up on the screen
- 22:51:40 [timeless]
- ... but when the user clicks on it, it goes to a certain page
- 22:51:50 [timeless]
- ... we could let pages say they don't want things on screen
- 22:51:58 [timeless]
- bryan: it sounds like OMAPush
- 22:52:01 [timeless]
- ... service indication
- 22:52:05 [timeless]
- ... (pre 2000)
- 22:52:10 [timeless]
- ... a text message and a url
- 22:52:15 [timeless]
- ... that wasn't directed to an application
- 22:52:23 [timeless]
- ... We added a way for an application to listen directly
- 22:52:35 [timeless]
- ... the key to OMAPush is that it uses Tokenization
- 22:52:46 [timeless]
- ... in 4 SMS payloads, you get up to 2k of content
- 22:52:53 [timeless]
- ... which isn't achievable without tokenization
- 22:53:35 [timeless]
- chaals: so it sounds like we have two sort of half starting points
- 22:53:39 [timeless]
- ... going into the same direction
- 22:53:47 [timeless]
- ... so the action is to look at them together
- 22:53:57 [timeless]
- bryan: i can look at mozilla's draft
- 22:54:07 [timeless]
- ... there's interest in integrating Apple's Push Notification
- 22:54:13 [timeless]
- ... and C2DM
- 22:54:16 [timeless]
- ... (Google's)
- 22:54:25 [timeless]
- ... that's where it stands
- 22:54:40 [timeless]
- ACTION bryan to look at proposals and start editing
- 22:54:40 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-660 - Look at proposals and start editing [on Bryan Sullivan - due 2012-05-08].
- 22:54:52 [timeless]
- magnus: the proposal is to extend Server Sent Events
- 22:54:57 [timeless]
- ... with event streams
- 22:55:03 [timeless]
- ... but you're not limiting to that
- 22:55:13 [timeless]
- chaals: we're not limiting to that
- 22:55:28 [timeless]
- bryan: it may, but i found hoops, websockets may be better
- 22:55:34 [timeless]
- DanD: I'm a member of WebRTC
- 22:55:38 [timeless]
- ... this came up as a requirement
- 22:55:44 [timeless]
- ... it got escalated to WebApps
- 22:55:50 [timeless]
- ... we did some analysis
- 22:55:56 [tantek]
- <aside> chaals, follow-up from your question about Application Manifest, we (Mozilla) do have someone working on a spec, and are iterating in public with intent to submit to Web Apps WG for inclusion/publication: http://mozilla.github.com/webapps-spec/ cc:sheapzu,sicking </aside>
- 22:56:11 [timeless]
- ... it's nice to have
- 22:56:23 [timeless]
- ... but there are emerging technologies which will make it a necessary feature
- 22:56:28 [chaals]
- [reply to your aside: Cool. We chairs are waiting for that :) ]
- 22:56:40 [timeless]
- bryan: in this draft, you'll see some text examples
- 22:56:52 [timeless]
- ... i'll send a link to the github which has a demo
- 22:57:17 [timeless]
- Arnaud: is there a speed requirement?
- 22:57:35 [timeless]
- bryan: i haven't seen any request for a service delivery deadline
- 22:57:42 [timeless]
- ... things tend to happen within a second or two
- 22:58:06 [timeless]
- Arnaud: if you use SMS as a bearer
- 22:58:11 [timeless]
- ... it can be slow
- 22:58:32 [timeless]
- sicking: Apple's has no promise of delivery at all
- 22:58:37 [timeless]
- bryan: it's best effort
- 22:59:06 [timeless]
- Topic: File API
- 22:59:21 [timeless]
- chaals: where is Mr. Arun?
- 22:59:31 [timeless]
- sicking: this is a side project for arun
- 22:59:36 [krisk]
- krisk has joined #webapps
- 23:00:07 [timeless]
- ... he hasn't been able to work on this for a while
- 23:00:22 [timeless]
- ... he did a spurt of editing LC feedback into the spec
- 23:00:31 [timeless]
- ... i have to work off memory of the outstanding issues
- 23:00:40 [timeless]
- ... the big one is One-Time-Only
- 23:00:43 [timeless]
- ... and revoking
- 23:01:23 [chaals]
- -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=WebAppsWG&component=File%20API&resolution=--- File API bugz
- 23:01:34 [timeless]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 23:01:34 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 23:01:48 [timeless]
- sicking: I think there was something else
- 23:01:53 [timeless]
- adrianba: there was the Close thing
- 23:02:09 [timeless]
- sicking: i think Close has the same problem space as Revoke
- 23:02:48 [timeless]
- adrianba: how concrete do we have to be
- 23:02:55 [timeless]
- ... and how interoperable do we need to be
- 23:03:14 [timeless]
- ... in IE we have a behavior where something may be cached in the decoded Image cache
- 23:03:21 [bryan]
- bryan has joined #webapps
- 23:03:26 [timeless]
- sicking: i suspect we'll want to define those things
- 23:04:18 [timeless]
- ... I suspect we'll be done with the File spec
- 23:04:19 [chaals]
- q+ to generalise Adrian's question onto tomorrow's agenda
- 23:04:30 [timeless]
- ... before we have those cases done for Images
- 23:04:56 [timeless]
- ... I suspect that long term we'll want to and require behaviors
- 23:05:00 [timeless]
- ack chaals
- 23:05:00 [Zakim]
- chaals, you wanted to generalise Adrian's question onto tomorrow's agenda
- 23:05:09 [timeless]
- chaals: can we bake a stable version of the spec
- 23:05:18 [timeless]
- ... that gives a useful stable reference
- 23:05:24 [timeless]
- ... while we work forward
- 23:05:27 [timeless]
- adrianba: there's a difference
- 23:05:39 [timeless]
- ... between is it valuable to have specs that are roughly stable and useful
- 23:05:53 [timeless]
- ... and there's a part of a spec where there are so many variations based on underlying platforms
- 23:06:04 [timeless]
- ... saying for those things maybe we don't have to specify them maybe ever
- 23:06:12 [timeless]
- sicking: i suspect we'll want to define this
- 23:06:27 [timeless]
- ... i suspect for image cache, we probably have the same issue
- 23:06:32 [timeless]
- ... and if you hadn't brought it up
- 23:06:37 [timeless]
- ... we may not have tested it
- 23:06:40 [timeless]
- adrianba: web developers care
- 23:06:45 [timeless]
- ... and they care when it breaks them
- 23:06:51 [chaals]
- s/can we bake/I would like to take this point out of this discussion and put on the agenda tomorrow whether we can/
- 23:06:58 [timeless]
- ericu: they care if we underspecify it
- 23:07:07 [timeless]
- ... and it works in one browser and breaks in other browsers
- 23:07:19 [timeless]
- sicking: it'll affect every place that uses urls, and every place that reads out of blobs/files
- 23:07:28 [timeless]
- ... there are certain things we should define
- 23:07:36 [timeless]
- ... there are going to be lots of things we're going to miss
- 23:07:46 [timeless]
- ... some of these things should be specified outside the File API spec
- 23:07:53 [timeless]
- ... some i suspect we'll get to eventually
- 23:07:59 [timeless]
- shepazu: if there are several contentious issues
- 23:08:04 [timeless]
- ... and some that will be tricky to do
- 23:08:12 [timeless]
- ... maybe we should bring on an additional editor
- 23:08:18 [timeless]
- chaals: this isn't an editor issue
- 23:08:28 [timeless]
- sicking: it isn't an issue of the File API spec
- 23:08:40 [timeless]
- ... it's up to the other specifications to accept a hand off
- 23:08:51 [timeless]
- chaals: should we put out a call for a second editor
- 23:08:57 [timeless]
- ericu: oh, we have a second editor
- 23:09:02 [timeless]
- [ sicking raises hand ]
- 23:09:08 [timeless]
- shepazu: you're just very busy
- 23:09:20 [timeless]
- sicking: there's a very small amount of this that will go into the File API
- 23:09:43 [timeless]
- ... for One-Load-Only
- 23:09:52 [timeless]
- ... do we revoke at first access or at end of microtask
- 23:09:55 [timeless]
- ... the other is...
- 23:10:02 [timeless]
- ... if you start loading, and then you revoke
- 23:10:07 [timeless]
- ... should that load continue
- 23:10:22 [timeless]
- ... i think on the second one, i don't think we've gotten feedback from you, Microsoft
- 23:10:28 [timeless]
- adrianba: oh, I can give you feedback:
- 23:10:35 [timeless]
- ... once we've started, it's very hard to stop
- 23:10:42 [timeless]
- sicking: ok, so once a load has started it should finish
- 23:10:49 [timeless]
- adrianba: for Close
- 23:10:55 [timeless]
- ... if you're doing File Reader on a Blob
- 23:11:01 [timeless]
- ... the point of calling Close
- 23:11:10 [timeless]
- ... is to say you really want to let go of the resources
- 23:11:17 [timeless]
- sicking: i considered them to be the same
- 23:11:23 [timeless]
- ... but we can keep them as separate
- 23:11:39 [timeless]
- ... we should figure out
- 23:12:10 [timeless]
- sicking: the first thing is ArrayBuffer v. ArrayBufferView
- 23:12:19 [timeless]
- ... i dislike the topic enough that i haven't followed the discussion
- 23:12:26 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: +1
- 23:12:34 [timeless]
- sicking: I suspect that we should be using ArrayBufferView
- 23:12:41 [timeless]
- adrianba: we can't do that soon
- 23:12:50 [timeless]
- sicking: i'm happy to leave it as an OR
- 23:13:01 [timeless]
- adrianba: I agree that it seems like it should be the right thing
- 23:13:12 [timeless]
- ... by the time we could change
- 23:13:19 [timeless]
- ... ECMA TC39 could progress
- 23:13:47 [timeless]
- sicking: I suspect that even if TC39 does something, it'll be called as ArrayBufferView or subclassed as that
- 23:13:57 [timeless]
- ... my feeling is we do ArrayBufferView now
- 23:14:06 [timeless]
- ... and if something new is added, we can add it later
- 23:14:15 [timeless]
- adrianba: do we always know
- 23:14:20 [timeless]
- ... when you use these things
- 23:14:35 [timeless]
- ... can we reliably feature detect support for these?
- 23:14:44 [timeless]
- sicking: the Blob constructor is hard to detect
- 23:14:54 [timeless]
- anne: you could just try
- 23:15:16 [timeless]
- chaals: you guys drink beer tonight and solve the problems
- 23:15:27 [timeless]
- anne: you're going to have the need for feature detection all the time
- 23:15:32 [timeless]
- ... it hasn't been a real problem in practice
- 23:15:43 [timeless]
- adrianba: i think these are relatively new features that haven't been detected
- 23:15:50 [timeless]
- anne: you need browser sniffing anyway
- 23:15:54 [timeless]
- adrianba: for incremental things
- 23:16:07 [timeless]
- ... for response-type in XHR, that's a good feature detect
- 23:16:11 [timeless]
- ... set and retrieve
- 23:16:22 [timeless]
- ... some things we're adding will be harder for feature detection
- 23:16:40 [timeless]
- ... there's an envelop thing with Must understand
- 23:16:49 [timeless]
- ... and things which aren't
- 23:16:59 [timeless]
- chaals: I really do mean: have a beer tonight, talk about this
- 23:17:11 [timeless]
- PaulC: i'd like a beer too
- 23:17:17 [timeless]
- anne: we can discuss it tomorrow
- 23:17:25 [timeless]
- ... feature detection is the agenda item
- 23:17:37 [timeless]
- ericu: File Writer, Locking
- 23:17:43 [timeless]
- ... sicking has a new proposal
- 23:17:47 [timeless]
- ... but we need to discuss it on the list
- 23:17:59 [timeless]
- [ Break until 4:30 ]
- 23:31:13 [timeless]
- Topic: IME
- 23:32:22 [ArtB]
- -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/default/use-cases/Overview.html IME UCs and Requirements
- 23:33:05 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: I worked with Kenji and Hironori
- 23:33:16 [timeless]
- ... the main cases where IMEs are important are Japan and Chinese
- 23:33:20 [timeless]
- s/Chinese/China/
- 23:33:25 [timeless]
- ... and to some extent Korea
- 23:33:28 [timeless]
- chaals: and Vietnam
- 23:33:38 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: since you don't have 10,000 keys on your keyboard
- 23:33:44 [timeless]
- ... you type on your keyboard, it goes into a buffer
- 23:33:49 [timeless]
- ... and gets converted
- 23:33:54 [timeless]
- ... into Kanji
- 23:34:03 [timeless]
- ... you don't want an IME to interfere with Games
- 23:34:07 [timeless]
- ... or other things
- 23:34:18 [timeless]
- ... similar to Screen Orientation/Pointer Lock
- 23:34:50 [timeless]
- ... interactively typing and getting suggestions from a web application
- 23:34:57 [timeless]
- ... like Google Suggest
- 23:35:05 [timeless]
- ... completing against things in a database in real time
- 23:35:21 [timeless]
- ... while you're completing against a database, you're potentially also completing against the IME
- 23:35:47 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: most mobile devices also have IMEs for word completion for Latin languages
- 23:35:56 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: Interaction
- 23:36:20 [timeless]
- ... some people want feature compatibility with other runtimes
- 23:36:31 [timeless]
- ... Flash has the ability to interact with the System IME
- 23:36:40 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: System IMEs are BUGGY AND INSECURE
- 23:36:56 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: as a game developer you can use this
- 23:37:15 [timeless]
- ... some people want to be able to provide a web based IME
- 23:37:37 [timeless]
- ... if you want to create a complete branded and consistent UE
- 23:37:42 [timeless]
- ... then if your application includes text input
- 23:37:50 [timeless]
- ... and you want to control IME behavior in your application
- 23:38:00 [timeless]
- ... then you want to be able to brand and style that
- 23:38:11 [timeless]
- yosuke: a lot of systems don't have IMEs installed
- 23:38:17 [timeless]
- ... and users don't know / can't install them
- 23:38:26 [timeless]
- ... so a web site might want to provide that
- 23:38:48 [timeless]
- ... installing that may require privileges
- 23:38:57 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: i don't know why we didn't put that one
- 23:39:07 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: google provides that for Translate for Hebrew
- 23:39:25 [timeless]
- chaals: Yandex does that for Cyrillic
- 23:39:36 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: Hixie didn't think this was the right approach
- 23:39:48 [timeless]
- tantek: there's an existing CSS property ime-mode
- 23:39:56 [timeless]
- ... from IE5/Firefox
- 23:40:02 [timeless]
- ... that should address your Games case
- 23:40:06 [timeless]
- ... it's in CSS3 UI LC
- 23:40:06 [chaals]
- q+ ryosuke
- 23:40:08 [timeless]
- ... it's at risk
- 23:40:16 [timeless]
- ... there's a simple property there
- 23:40:22 [timeless]
- ... if there are UCs that are easy to add to them
- 23:40:31 [timeless]
- ... the spec is being locked down
- 23:40:40 [tantek]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-css3-ui-20120117/#ime-mode
- 23:40:44 [chaals]
- q+ anne
- 23:40:49 [timeless]
- s/yosuke/ryosuke/
- 23:40:51 [chaals]
- ack ry
- 23:41:11 [timeless]
- ryosuke: there's no concept of IME on/off
- 23:41:30 [timeless]
- ... when you switch languages/layouts
- 23:41:38 [timeless]
- ... i don't think this new api addresses that either
- 23:41:44 [timeless]
- ... maybe there's a way to include that
- 23:41:48 [chaals]
- ack anne
- 23:41:59 [timeless]
- anne: given that web pages already make their own UIs
- 23:42:09 [timeless]
- ... it'd be helpful if there was an explanation as to why something is needed
- 23:42:19 [chaals]
- q+
- 23:42:29 [timeless]
- s/ryosuke:/rniwa:/
- 23:42:38 [ArtB]
- -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ime-api/raw-file/tip/Overview.html IME ED
- 23:42:40 [timeless]
- chaals: when you implement it, what happens in practice is it doesn't work
- 23:42:48 [timeless]
- q?
- 23:42:49 [rniwa]
- hober: ?
- 23:42:57 [timeless]
- s/hober: ?//
- 23:43:13 [rniwa]
- timeless: ah, ok. hober: thanks
- 23:43:32 [chaals]
- ack me
- 23:43:37 [timeless]
- rniwa: there's some interest in creating SVG editors
- 23:43:39 [timeless]
- q+
- 23:43:59 [timeless]
- rniwa: you want to be able to type things into the SVG
- 23:44:10 [timeless]
- ... and that isn't compatible with Content Editable
- 23:44:13 [timeless]
- ack me
- 23:45:05 [timeless]
- Josh_Soref: some "system" IMEs are buggy and pushing insecure content into them
- 23:45:09 [rniwa]
- heycam: that's nice to know :D
- 23:45:12 [timeless]
- ... is just as dangerous as pushing data to font engines
- 23:45:19 [timeless]
- ... = nice root exploits
- 23:45:23 [timeless]
- Topic: URL
- 23:45:38 [tantek]
- perhaps consider an informative reference to CSS3-UI for the 'ime-mode' property
- 23:45:44 [timeless]
- s/heycam: that's nice to know :D//
- 23:45:47 [timeless]
- MikeSmith: the URL Spec
- 23:45:49 [ArtB]
- -> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/url/raw-file/tip/Overview.html URL spec
- 23:45:56 [timeless]
- ... the api part
- 23:46:12 [chaals]
- i/Topic: URL/Mike: We're about ready for a FPWD, the spec is reasonably advanced. Hopefully some time this month.
- 23:46:37 [timeless]
- ... if you're going to expose URL information
- 23:46:43 [timeless]
- ... then you want a way to parse them
- 23:46:57 [timeless]
- ... the part before this is the algorithm for parsing
- 23:47:07 [timeless]
- ... there's a definition of what a URL is
- 23:47:12 [timeless]
- ... it isn't defined anywhere
- 23:47:36 [timeless]
- ... the first two parts started in the html spec
- 23:47:45 [timeless]
- ... but there isn't anything specific
- 23:48:05 [tantek]
- I've done some research on what different specs call the different parts of URLs: http://tantek.com/2011/238/b1/many-ways-slice-url-name-pieces
- 23:48:21 [timeless]
- Topic: Agenda Bashing
- 23:48:37 [timeless]
- chaals: there's a gap for people to wake up
- 23:48:39 [timeless]
- ... CORS
- 23:48:45 [timeless]
- ... D3E/DOM4
- 23:48:51 [timeless]
- ... Testing
- 23:49:09 [timeless]
- ... Versions/Stabilize
- 23:49:29 [timeless]
- ... -- these points here have dragons
- 23:49:32 [timeless]
- ... Feature detection
- 23:49:43 [timeless]
- ... -- anne + adrianba 's item
- 23:49:49 [timeless]
- ... [ their action was to drink beer ]
- 23:49:55 [plh]
- plh has joined #webapps
- 23:49:58 [timeless]
- ... Meeting Planning
- 23:50:10 [timeless]
- PaulC: when will you do that?
- 23:50:14 [timeless]
- ... i'd like to try to be here
- 23:50:20 [timeless]
- ... i'd like to have our TPAC plans straight
- 23:50:26 [timeless]
- chaals: yes, that being our next meeting
- 23:50:38 [timeless]
- ... anything else people want to put in our next meeting?
- 23:50:45 [Paul_Kinlan]
- Paul_Kinlan has joined #webapps
- 23:50:54 [timeless]
- glenn: where are we drinking beer tonight?
- 23:50:59 [timeless]
- chaals: that's later in today's agenda
- 23:51:31 [timeless]
- ... 9:45-10:15 CORS w/ WebAppSec
- 23:52:07 [timeless]
- ... HTML Stuff
- 23:52:22 [timeless]
- ... Index DB
- 23:52:35 [timeless]
- ... [ real item ]
- 23:52:38 [timeless]
- ... Full screen
- 23:52:44 [timeless]
- anne: 10 minutes
- 23:53:13 [timeless]
- ArtB: what's HTML?
- 23:53:25 [timeless]
- krisk: Hixie specs (Sockets, Workers, ...)
- 23:53:32 [timeless]
- chaals: Lunch
- 23:53:39 [timeless]
- ... Feature detection/stability
- 23:54:49 [timeless]
- ... Testing
- 23:54:55 [timeless]
- ... Meetings
- 23:55:02 [timeless]
- ... - wrap up + beer
- 23:56:53 [krisk]
- Tied House Brewery & Cafe 954 Villa Street Mountain View, CA 94041 (650) 965-2739
- 23:57:42 [timeless]
- chaals: thanks all
- 23:57:45 [timeless]
- [ Adjourned ]
- 23:57:51 [timeless]
- RRSAgent: make minutes
- 23:57:51 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html timeless
- 23:58:02 [timeless]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 23:58:02 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 23:58:02 [Zakim]
- sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
- 23:58:10 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 23:58:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-minutes.html trackbot
- 23:58:11 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- I see 11 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-actions.rdf :
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: chaals to bug AC reps of ex-members to re-join after new charter [1]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T16-32-10
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to stop work on From-Origin spec [2]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-19-42
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Fullscreen spec; coordinate with CSS WG [3]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-23-30
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start CfC for FPWD + LCWD of Gamepad spec [4]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-25-02
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start CfC to publish FPWD of IME spec [5]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-26-57
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start CfC for Pointer spec [6]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-28-00
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Shadow DOM [7]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-35-02
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Art start a CfC for FPWD of URL spec (Mike to be lead Editor) [8]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-37-54
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: barstow find a Test Facilitator for Web Messaging CR [9]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T17-42-40-1
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Barstow start CfC to create a WG Note for XBL2 (and Chaals will do the work) [10]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T18-22-24
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: barstow start a CfC to publish a FPWD of Web Components Explainer (when an ED with TR template is available) [11]
- 23:58:11 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/05/01-webapps-irc#T19-16-17