15:00:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #HCLS
15:00:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-HCLS-irc
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15:01:07 <matthias_samwald> zakim, this is hcls
15:01:07 <Zakim> hcls matches both SW_HCLS()11:00AM and Team_(hcls)14:28Z, matthias_samwald
15:01:14 <BobF> I keep getting disconnected on the voice line - anyone else having trouble?
15:01:45 <matthias_samwald> i made it after the 2nd attempt.
15:02:55 <matthias_samwald> zakim, this is hcls
15:02:55 <Zakim> hcls matches both SW_HCLS()11:00AM and Team_(hcls)14:28Z, matthias_samwald
15:03:00 <matthias_samwald> zakim, this is SW_HCLS
15:03:00 <Zakim> ok, matthias_samwald; that matches SW_HCLS()11:00AM
15:04:17 <matthias_samwald> scott, could you scribe?
15:04:47 <matthias_samwald> OSEHRA
15:05:03 <mscottm2> OSEHRA - Open Source Electr. Health Rec. Agent
15:05:16 <matthias_samwald> http://www.osehra.org/
15:05:33 <Zakim> +EricP
15:05:50 <Zakim> -??P3
15:05:55 <michel> michel has joined #hcls
15:07:16 <JoanneLuciano> JoanneLuciano has joined #hcls
15:08:46 <JoanneLuciano> OSEHRA.org
15:08:59 <Zakim> + +1.412.802.aacc
15:09:32 <matthias_samwald> http://www.osehra.org/blog/some-background-material-semantic-web-topics-architecture-conference-call-feb-28
15:09:35 <ericP> JoanneLuciano: OSEHRA is the VA's standard EHR
15:09:53 <ericP> ... could W3C produce a standard EHR?
15:10:09 <boycer> boycer has joined #hcls
15:10:32 <ericP> ... after we propose one, could we make it a W3C Recommendation?
15:11:05 <ericP> matthias_samwald: osehra appears to be discussing using RDF and SPARQL
15:11:09 <Zakim> +??P49
15:11:19 <michel> zakim, ??P49 is michel
15:11:19 <Zakim> +michel; got it
15:11:23 <ericP> mscottm2: we took inventory of this a couple years ago:
15:11:30 <ericP> ... .. OpenEHF
15:11:32 <ericP> ... .. OpenEHR
15:11:46 <boycer> was it OpenVista?
15:12:04 <ericP> ... .. OpenVista
15:12:11 <matthias_samwald> Matthias: the one that I looked into was "Tolven"
15:12:20 <mscottm2> Collabrx
15:12:28 <ericP> ... .. Tolven, from collabrx
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15:12:57 <ericP> ... in terms of making an RDF EHR, it depends on the information model you're using
15:13:13 <ericP> ... e.g. support all of OpenVista or HL7 V3
15:13:13 <boycer> maybe OpenMRS <openmrs.org>
15:13:54 <ericP> ... you could make RDF versions of the given systems
15:14:07 <ericP> JoanneLuciano: if we provide mappings between them...
15:21:04 <mscottm2> https://community.openclinica.com/2012-final-conference-program
15:21:22 <mscottm2> (above was just something I dug up related to the conversation)
15:22:06 <mscottm2> Joanne: by mapping to main EHR players and building applications on top of that
15:22:44 <mscottm2> EUREKA
15:23:31 <ericP> mscottm2: fits our goals, but my tactic is to work with someone who wants to do this, e.g. a clinic participating in EUREKA (connecting clinical records and radiology, 
15:23:49 <ericP> ... otherwise we have to create all of the data model
15:25:00 <ericP> ... before there's value in mapping EHRs to each other, we have to show value in working in RDF
15:25:36 <ericP> matthias_samwald: before we build standards, we need to connect with the people working on e.g. FHIR to see where we can help them
15:26:46 <matthias_samwald> ericP: has weekly telecons with FHIR participant.
15:27:01 <matthias_samwald> ericP: FHIR developer enthusiastic about RDF for agent development.
15:27:10 <mscottm2> ericP: Cecil Lynch tells people that you can do agile development with a triplestore and ontologies
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15:28:02 <mscottm2> .. "It's a good way for my company to facilitate collaborative work." 
15:29:45 <mscottm2> HL7 folks created a UML model called RIM some years ago (10?) but it didn't really take off. The notion was that everyone would use RIM to encode things and get them to connect. But adoption was limited.
15:30:04 <matthias_samwald> reminds me of Barry's HL7 criticism on http://hl7-watch.blogspot.com/
15:30:35 <mscottm2> ..So, they've created a new project called Fire that uses XML and I (ericP) created RDF versions of it.
15:32:23 <mscottm2> ericP: I'm not sure that they realize that committing to RDF means a certain amount of work to settle on the definitions.
15:33:57 <mscottm2> Working with Lloyd MacKenzie.
15:35:26 <mscottm2> ericP: There's a question of how much good modeling we require during the development vs. having someone else come along and figure it out post facto . 
15:35:50 <mscottm2> ..I can bring more of this to the task force if you like.
15:37:59 <Zakim> + +1.215.239.aadd
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15:39:30 <JoanneLuciano> Scott: Dan Brickley has been interested in geneology and clinical will need to represent that info from Morman's in an interoperable way  - no way now to identify a patient mutation in EHR 
15:39:56 <JoanneLuciano> Scott: is there synergy there with FHIR
15:40:09 <JoanneLuciano> Back to Agenda!
15:40:33 <mscottm2> Mormon geneology format is the de facto standard at the moment: GEDCOM
15:40:49 <JoanneLuciano> MS: looked into how to use OWL for creating recommendations for clinical pharmacogenomics based on extensions of TMO
15:41:29 <JoanneLuciano> MS: Many of there rules can be expressed by simple SPARQL queries
15:41:37 <matthias_samwald> http://purl.org/zen/ssr.ttl
15:42:37 <JoanneLuciano> Eric: How close is this to SPIN?
15:43:16 <JoanneLuciano> MS: SPIN has many features - expected to check novel or stop iterating or magic properties, etc...
15:44:44 <JoanneLuciano> SPIN - simple sparql - rules, and some alternative to OWL reasoning based on SPARQL (object oriented) - but more complex than what Matthias was looking for.
15:49:26 <mscottm2> Scott asked: What the difference between chaining SPARQL Constructs (as in SWObjects) and SPIN, and diff with Matthias's simple sparql rules?
15:50:27 <mscottm2> EricP: SWObjects uses query rewriting and will not chain deeply. SPIN will chain to a predetermined depth.
15:51:56 <mscottm2> Matthias: With each iteration, SPARQL rules add triples from consequent to the triplestore.
15:53:04 <mscottm2> Scott: Does SWObjects query rewriting chain then?
15:54:06 <mscottm2> EricP: Yes, between SPARQL endpoints but not within a single map file (of SPARQL Constructs).
15:54:33 <matthias_samwald> Decision support table (including Simple SPARQL rules on the far right): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AiGT-vnkGcoLdFFVMEdqcFdYaDFqS0xHTnlUT0N3cEE&single=true&gid=3&output=html
15:57:06 <mscottm2> Nice! You can click on each rule to view the definition.
15:58:10 <mscottm2> :)
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16:00:26 <Zakim> - +1.215.239.aadd
16:00:39 <boycer> Matthias, great work! I have to go but will send you some thoughts by email.
16:01:00 <Zakim> - +1.412.802.aacc
16:02:37 <ericP> G1:{ :Laborador ⊆ :Doggie . :Doggie ⊆ :Mammal . :Mammal ⊆ Animal } | { ?a ⊆ ?b . ?b ⊆ ?c } ∴ { ?a ⊆ ?c } = G1 + { :Laborador ⊆ :Mammal . :Doggie ⊆ Animal }
16:03:12 <matthias_samwald> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiGT-vnkGcoLdGlPS3lSR25OWXNLUWl6SWp3LUJLN2c#gid=0
16:03:18 <ericP> G1:{ :Laborador ⊆ :Doggie . :Doggie ⊆ :Mammal . :Mammal ⊆ Animal } | { ?a ⊆ ?b . ?b ⊆ ?c } ∴ { ?a ⊆ ?c }  | { ?a ⊆ ?b . ?b ⊆ ?c } ∴ { ?a ⊆ ?c } = G1 + { :Laborador ⊆ :Mammal . :Doggie ⊆ Animal . :Laborador ⊆ :Animal }
16:03:38 <matthias_samwald> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiGT-vnkGcoLdGlPS3lSR25OWXNLUWl6SWp3LUJLN2c#gid=7
16:04:53 <Zakim> - +1.412.482.aaaa
16:05:44 <ericP> brb
16:06:39 <ericP> b
16:06:45 <Zakim> -Tony
16:07:49 <mscottm2> Bob: It's sort of an open vs. closed world problem. If you define a wild type based on not having a particular set of SNPs but, later, a functionally relevant SNP is discovered, the wild type definition might not hold anymore.
16:09:14 <mscottm2> Michel - you just dropped out for me before "the variant cases"
16:10:27 <michel> i was just saying that assigning a role for the wild type basically falls to a default reasoning case - non-monotonic reasoning
16:10:56 <Zakim> -EricP
16:10:58 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aabb
16:11:00 <Zakim> -michel
16:11:03 <Zakim> -??P35
16:11:07 <mscottm2> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:11:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-HCLS-minutes.html mscottm2
16:11:49 <mscottm2> RRSAgent, please set logs world-visible
16:13:27 <Zakim> -??P36
16:13:29 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
16:13:29 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.412.482.aaaa, +1.518.276.aabb, Tony, EricP, +1.412.802.aacc, michel, +1.215.239.aadd
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