15:53:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
15:53:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/23-html-techs-tf-irc
15:53:40 <cfit> zakim, this will be 9224
15:53:40 <Zakim> ok, cfit; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 23 minutes ago
15:53:50 <cfit> rrsagent, make logs world
15:54:13 <cfit> meeting; HTML Techniques Task Force
15:54:17 <cfit> meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
15:54:22 <cfit> chair: Joshue
15:55:05 <cfit> Agenda + Please comment on the survey -  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/
15:55:28 <cfit> agenda + New ARIA technique Survey
15:55:28 <cfit> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIA_role_alert_error_feedback/
15:57:40 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has now started
15:57:47 <Zakim> +??P3
15:57:55 <adam> adam has joined #html-techs-tf
15:57:58 <cfit> zakim, ??P3 is Joshue
15:57:58 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:59:15 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:00:12 <adam> adam has joined #html-techs-tf
16:01:07 <Zakim> +??P7
16:01:49 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:02:09 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P7 is Adam_Solomon
16:02:09 <Zakim> +Adam_Solomon; got it
16:03:05 <David> David has joined #html-techs-tf
16:03:39 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:04:13 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #html-techs-tf
16:04:29 <Zakim> +??P21
16:04:45 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P21 is Léonie_Watson
16:04:45 <Zakim> +Léonie_Watson; got it
16:05:25 <cfit> scribenick: Adam
16:05:36 <cfit> zakim, take up item 1
16:05:36 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Please comment on the survey -  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/" taken up [from cfit]
16:05:52 <adam> topic: Using placeholder on INPUT
16:06:22 <adam> leonie - work in progress 
16:06:28 <cfit> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/htmltechs-20120409/results
16:09:46 <adam> see Loretta's comments in the survey - relevance to 3.3.2
16:10:26 <adam> David - shouldn't confuse people for 3.3.2
16:12:21 <adam> david's suggested text is useful - not replacement for label
16:17:07 <adam> 3.3.2 requires label or instructions
16:17:39 <adam> 1.3.1 covers programmatic determination
16:18:11 <adam> screen readers support placeholder
16:18:30 <cfit> +q
16:19:01 <cfit> ack me
16:19:12 <adam> problem is that it disappears after entering value
16:19:54 <adam> user agent support limited
16:21:14 <adam> leonie to do test case for screen readers
16:21:48 <adam> may be advisory
16:22:38 <adam> more urgent to get to aria techs
16:23:34 <cfit> DMD: We really need to focus more on ARIA techs over HTML5.
16:23:35 <adam> david - aria more helpful at the present time than html5
16:24:27 <cfit> zakim, take up item 2
16:24:27 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New ARIA technique Survey" taken up [from cfit]
16:25:24 <cfit> AS: The placeholder tech may be sufficient for 3.3.1
16:27:02 <cfit> JOC: I would have reservations about the placeholder tech being suitable for 3.3.1
16:27:22 <cfit> JOC: I don't think it is sufficiently robust.
16:28:43 <cfit> JOC: Adam has a point that placeholder text could be highlighted in red to denote errors in fields.
16:30:25 <adam> david - 3.3.1 has to be conditional - not on page load
16:32:27 <cfit> JOC: I'll leave the section element tech for today, as it still needs work.
16:33:09 <cfit> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIA_role_alert_error_feedback/
16:33:29 <adam> topic: ARIA Technique - Using ARIA role of alert for Error Feedback in Forms
16:34:32 <David> http://www.DavidMacD.com/WCAG/testing/form.html
16:35:22 <adam> David implemented snippet from technique (see url above) - doesn't work
16:36:16 <adam> example left out code - how much should be posted?
16:38:08 <adam> marc - reduce code to one field and cut it down
16:40:53 <adam> marc - add missing js functions
16:42:57 <adam> david - leverage jon's techniques as is - no bandwidth to revise them
16:43:09 <marcjohlic> http://html.cita.illinois.edu/nav/form/aria/index.php?example=3
16:44:30 <adam> joshua - important to provide short, simple examples - flag this code as not working
16:45:07 <adam> marc - another advantage to jon's examples is presence of other aria attributes
16:46:25 <adam> david - not required that each example fulfills all of the success criteria
16:47:25 <adam> david - silverlight techs had zip files for code
16:48:33 <Zakim> -Léonie_Watson
16:49:30 <adam> joshua - what about jquery examples
16:49:41 <adam> david - avoided until now
16:50:47 <cfit> ACTION: Josh to ping Tim and Jon about fixing the JS on the ARIA technique
16:51:30 <cfit> ACTION: Further group discussion needed about use of JS libraries and WCAG examples
16:52:48 <adam> adam - need to carefully adapt all code for the techniques
16:53:07 <adam> david - check the code but use the examples as is 
16:54:03 <adam> marc - for those who are familiar with js - throw it out as is - and then revise it later
16:54:49 <adam> adam - we'd never get back to revising them
16:54:59 <adam> joshua - i have to go
16:55:13 <Zakim> -Adam_Solomon
16:55:26 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:55:27 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:55:36 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:55:40 <cfit> rrsagent, make minutes public
16:55:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', cfit.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:55:49 <cfit> rrsagent, make minutes
16:55:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/23-html-techs-tf-minutes.html cfit
16:56:11 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:56:12 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
16:56:12 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, Cooper, David_MacDonald, Adam_Solomon, Marc_Johlic, Léonie_Watson
16:56:32 <cfit> Regrets: Loretta, Tim Boland
16:57:09 <cfit> zakim, list attendees
16:57:09 <Zakim> sorry, cfit, I don't know what conference this is
16:57:26 <cfit> rrsagent, please part
16:57:26 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/23-html-techs-tf-actions.rdf :
16:57:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Josh to ping Tim and Jon about fixing the JS on the ARIA technique [1]
16:57:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/23-html-techs-tf-irc#T16-50-47
16:57:26 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Further group discussion needed about use of JS libraries and WCAG examples [2]
16:57:26 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/23-html-techs-tf-irc#T16-51-30