19:58:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-wai-wcag-irc
19:59:00 <korn> korn has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:59:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:59:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM already started
19:59:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19:59:04 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
19:59:28 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
19:59:39 <Zakim> +Cooper
19:59:49 <MichaelC> zakim, Oracle is Peter_Korn
19:59:49 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
20:00:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:00:41 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
20:01:17 <awk> scribe: akirkpat2
20:01:29 <Zakim> +Maureen_Kraft
20:01:42 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
20:01:42 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
20:01:47 <MichaelC> scribeNick: awk
20:01:50 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:02:08 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:39 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:03:02 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Cherie_Ekholm
20:03:02 <Zakim> +Cherie_Ekholm; got it
20:03:06 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:11 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:03:18 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
20:03:39 <Andi> Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:44 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:04:47 <awk> TOPIC: WCAG2ICT Task Force Work Statement
20:04:56 <Zakim> + +1.253.381.aaaa
20:05:14 <Loretta> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20120419TF/results
20:05:32 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
20:06:02 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
20:06:22 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Robin_Tuttle
20:06:22 <Zakim> +Robin_Tuttle; got it
20:07:25 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
20:07:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Judy, Peter_Korn, Cooper, Alex_Li, Bruce_Bailey (muted), Maureen_Kraft, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Cherie_Ekholm, Andi_Snow-Weaver,
20:07:29 <Zakim> ... Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Robin_Tuttle, Marc_Johlic
20:07:41 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
20:08:02 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
20:08:57 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
20:09:04 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
20:09:06 <robin> robin has joined #wai-wcag
20:15:20 <korn> Do we not queue in WCAG calls?
20:15:55 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:15:58 <Judy> q+
20:16:07 <Loretta> ack g
20:17:14 <Loretta> q+ alex
20:17:18 <Loretta> ack j
20:17:22 <Zakim> -Maureen_Kraft
20:18:24 <Loretta> ack a
20:19:41 <awk> q+
20:20:06 <Judy> [in scope: how a wcag2 provision would apply to non-web ict; out-of-scope: whether a wcag2 provision ought to apply to non-web ict]
20:20:22 <Loretta> ack a
20:20:39 <korn> q+
20:21:28 <Loretta> ack k
20:22:05 <greggvanderheiden> IN THE OBJECTIVE:  The purpose of this task force is to respond to suggestions that WCAG would be a good set of guidelines to apply to electronic documents and software that are not web content.   It is not the purpose of Task force to make any judgements of as to whether WCAG or any particular provisions should be used with non-web content but rather to comment on the meaning of the WCAG guidelines, success criteria and conformance 
20:22:06 <greggvanderheiden> model and how it should be understood if it were to be applied to non-web electronic documents or software.              IN THE  "OUT OF SCOPE"  SECTION:       * any judgement as to whether or not WCAG or any provisions SHOULD be applied to non-web content.
20:22:09 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:22:51 <korn> q-
20:22:54 <awk> q+
20:23:00 <Loretta> ack g
20:23:03 <korn> q+ Alex_Li
20:24:26 <Loretta> q+
20:25:03 <Loretta> ack aw
20:25:06 <korn> q+
20:25:34 <Loretta> q-
20:25:37 <Loretta> ack a
20:26:39 <Loretta> ack k
20:27:37 <greggvanderheiden> Software would include,    Applications,  operating systems, and software in ICT that also has hardware aspects
20:28:05 <Andi> This task force was formed in response to suggestions that WCAG would be a good set of guidelines to apply to electronic documents and software that are not web content.
20:28:15 <greggvanderheiden> IN THE OBJECTIVE:  This task force was formed in response to suggestions that WCAG would be a good set of guidelines to apply to electronic documents and software that are not web content.  It is not the purpose of Task force to make any judgements of as to whether WCAG or any particular provisions should be used with non-web content but rather to comment on the meaning of the WCAG guidelines, success criteria and conformance model and 
20:28:16 <greggvanderheiden> how it should be understood if it were to be applied to non-web electronic documents or software.              IN THE  "OUT OF SCOPE"  SECTION:      * any judgement as to whether or not WCAG or any provisions SHOULD be applied to non-web content.
20:29:28 <greggvanderheiden> great minds….    it looks identical  -- yes?
20:29:49 <Andi> in the second sentence, I suggest "it is not the INTENT" rather than "it is not the PURPOSE"
20:29:59 <greggvanderheiden> OK   one sec
20:30:20 <korn> q+
20:30:24 <greggvanderheiden> IN THE OBJECTIVE:  This task force was formed in response to suggestions that WCAG would be a good set of guidelines to apply to electronic documents and software that are not web content.  It is not the intent
20:30:24 <greggvanderheiden>  of Task force to make any judgements of as to whether WCAG or any particular provisions should be used with non-web content but rather to comment on the meaning of the WCAG guidelines, success criteria and conformance model and how it should be understood if it were to be applied to non-web electronic documents or software.              IN THE  "OUT OF SCOPE"  SECTION:      * any judgement as to whether or not WCAG or any provisions 
20:30:25 <greggvanderheiden> SHOULD be applied to non-web content.
20:31:09 <Andi> q+
20:31:35 <Loretta> ack k
20:32:47 <Judy> q+
20:32:47 <Loretta> q+
20:33:22 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:33:26 <Loretta> ack a
20:33:28 <korn> q+ Alex_Li
20:33:58 <Loretta> ack j
20:34:59 <Zakim> +Maureen_Kraft
20:35:28 <Judy> q?
20:35:58 <Judy> q+
20:36:06 <Alex> Alex has joined #wai-wcag
20:36:33 <korn> q+
20:36:47 <Loretta> ack l
20:37:27 <Loretta> ack g
20:39:17 <Loretta> ack a
20:39:55 <Loretta> ack j
20:40:11 <greggvanderheiden> Additionfor OUT OF SCOPE section:     Other than a statement that 
20:42:09 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
20:42:15 <greggvanderheiden> Addition for OUT OF SCOPE section:    Other than a statement that “The taskforce does not assert that the WCAG is a comprehensive or complete set of guidelines for ICT (including Web content).”   the task force would make no comment on specific gaps or how to fill them. 
20:42:22 <Loretta> ack k
20:42:26 <Loretta> q+
20:42:59 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:43:41 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
20:44:06 <Judy> q+ to comment on the concern that she is hearing about "implied comprehensive coverage," and to explore whether we can come up with wording that would very narrowly address that.
20:44:12 <greggvanderheiden> Addition for OUT OF SCOPE section:  * Any comment on the application of WCAG to non-ICT”  
20:44:37 <Judy> q+ to comment on the concern that she is hearing about "implied comprehensive coverage," and to explore whether we can come up with wording that would very narrowly address that... particularly at the level of an _individual_ provision.
20:45:15 <Loretta> ack l
20:45:54 <Loretta> ack g
20:47:32 <Loretta> ack j
20:47:32 <Zakim> Judy, you wanted to comment on the concern that she is hearing about "implied comprehensive coverage," and to explore whether we can come up with wording that would very narrowly
20:47:35 <Zakim> ... address that. and to comment on the concern that she is hearing about "implied comprehensive coverage," and to explore whether we can come up with wording that would very
20:47:35 <Zakim> ... narrowly address that... particularly at the level of an _individual_ provision.
20:48:14 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:49:22 <Loretta> q+
20:49:44 <Loretta> ack g
20:52:28 <Judy> q+
20:52:49 <Loretta> ack l
20:52:54 <Judy> [judy hearing a suggestion that the doc that the group produces should itself include a clear statement of what the doc does _not_ cover]
20:54:06 <greggvanderheiden> SUGGESTION:  Include the limitations of the task force in the report so that it is clear why it did not comment on some aspects
20:54:10 <greggvanderheiden> q+
20:54:38 <Loretta> ack j
20:56:08 <Loretta> Judy, I'm not getting the echo.
20:56:55 <korn> q+
20:57:26 <Loretta> q+
20:57:48 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
20:58:13 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
20:59:27 <Loretta> ack g
20:59:38 <Loretta> q-
21:01:33 <MichaelC> q+ to say last week I heard objection to being too broad about reivew of the conformance section; now I'm hearing objection about being too narrow
21:01:41 <Loretta> ack k
21:02:33 <Loretta> q+
21:02:43 <Loretta> q-
21:02:52 <Loretta> ack m
21:02:52 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say last week I heard objection to being too broad about reivew of the conformance section; now I'm hearing objection about being too narrow
21:04:37 <greggvanderheiden> Every place that is says  "principles, guidelines, and success criteria"  add "conformance requirements" ,
21:04:54 <korn> I heard "Conformance Criteria"
21:06:07 <greggvanderheiden> so that it reads "principles, guidelines, success criteria and conformance requirements" ,  but leave the 2nd bullet under what is included as it is to refer to conformance in general 
21:09:37 <korn> No objection Judy
21:11:05 <Andi> q+
21:11:55 <Loretta> q+
21:12:17 <Loretta> ack a
21:12:48 <Alex> q+
21:13:04 <Loretta> ack a
21:14:20 <Judy> q+
21:14:33 <Loretta> ack l
21:16:24 <korn> I have heard it briefly much earlier; I am muted (and have been)
21:16:30 <Zakim> -Maureen_Kraft
21:16:59 <Loretta> ack j
21:17:23 <greggvanderheiden> q+
21:17:42 <Loretta> ack g
21:18:28 <Judy> q+
21:18:38 <Loretta> ack j
21:22:30 <Andi> note to Judy - typo in the text under "Dependencies" heading: "dependencises" should be "dependencies"
21:22:43 <Judy> q+
21:22:45 <Alex> q+
21:22:53 <Loretta> ack j
21:22:59 <Judy> q+ later
21:23:00 <Loretta> ck a
21:23:02 <Loretta> ack a
21:23:40 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
21:23:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Judy, Peter_Korn, Cooper, Alex_Li, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Cherie_Ekholm, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Robin_Tuttle, Marc_Johlic,
21:23:40 <korn> q+
21:23:43 <Zakim> ... Bruce_Bailey (muted)
21:23:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see Alex, marcjohlic, Andi, Loretta, greggvanderheiden, Zakim, korn, RRSAgent, awk, Judy, MichaelC, trackbot
21:24:09 <Loretta> ack j
21:25:25 <MichaelC> q+ to say I was involved in a task force to analyze why W3C specs come in late a lot of the time. One of the factors is that timelines were known to be unrealistic, but there was pressure to make them that way. Experience so that wishing an aggressive timeline were achievable doesn't make it so, and documenting it as such just sets us up for missed expectations.
21:25:48 <Loretta> ack k
21:27:25 <Loretta> Can WG approve acceptance of LC-2604, from last week's survey, which has unanimous consent?
21:27:31 <MichaelC> s/Experience so/Experience shows/g
21:27:42 <Loretta> ack m
21:27:42 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say I was involved in a task force to analyze why W3C specs come in late a lot of the time. One of the factors is that timelines were known to be
21:27:46 <Zakim> ... unrealistic, but there was pressure to make them that way. Experience so that wishing an aggressive timeline were achievable doesn't make it so, and documenting it as such just
21:27:46 <Zakim> ... sets us up for missed expectations.
21:28:51 <MichaelC> s/Experience so/Experience shows/g
21:29:02 <Judy> [judy: heard from peter an interest in ensuring that we haven't put our pencils away too early for addressing input from other efforts"
21:30:13 <Judy> [judy: hearing from gregg: good to avoid sunsetting, and good to avoid slack]
21:30:16 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow-Weaver
21:30:43 <awk> RESOLUTION: Judy will produce another draft for next week
21:31:09 <awk> TOPIC: LC-2604
21:31:21 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
21:31:23 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
21:31:23 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
21:31:24 <awk> RESOLUTION: Accepted by unanimous consent
21:31:24 <Zakim> -Cooper
21:31:25 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
21:31:26 <Zakim> -Judy
21:31:26 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:31:28 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
21:31:29 <korn> korn has left #wai-wcag
21:31:37 <Zakim> -Cherie_Ekholm
21:31:40 <Zakim> -Robin_Tuttle
21:31:41 <MichaelC> chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:31:47 <Zakim> -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
21:31:48 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
21:31:48 <Zakim> Attendees were Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Judy, Cooper, Peter_Korn, Bruce_Bailey, Maureen_Kraft, Alex_Li, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Cherie_Ekholm, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
21:31:48 <Zakim> ... +1.253.381.aaaa, Marc_Johlic, Robin_Tuttle
21:31:54 <awk> awk has left #wai-wcag
21:32:14 <MichaelC> regrets+ Kathleen_Wahlbin
21:32:18 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2012AprJun/0023.html
21:32:21 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
21:32:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
21:35:47 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
21:35:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items