20:59:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:59:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-irc
20:59:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:59:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:59:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:59:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute
20:59:26 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:59:26 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012
21:00:44 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM has now started
21:00:46 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
21:00:50 <Zakim> +??P12
21:01:04 <Zakim> +??P14
21:01:18 <krit> krit has joined #svg
21:01:24 <heycam> Zakim, ??P14 is me
21:01:24 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:01:40 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #svg
21:02:38 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:02:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P12, Doug_Schepers, heycam
21:02:56 <cabanier> zakim, ??P12 is me
21:02:56 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
21:03:01 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:03:51 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:04:08 <krit> I try, but I can not call in. The US number doesn't work for me
21:04:18 <heycam> Zakim, code?
21:04:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 7841 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), heycam
21:04:20 <jen> jen has joined #svg
21:04:23 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #svg
21:04:27 <Zakim> +??P15
21:04:44 <Zakim> +??P16
21:05:09 <Cyril> Cyril has joined #svg
21:05:13 <krit> heycam: I don't:(
21:05:20 <Cyril> zakim, who is here?
21:05:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see cabanier, Doug_Schepers, heycam, ??P15, ??P16
21:05:39 <Cyril> it is working for me via Skype
21:05:49 <Cyril> zakim, ??P16 is me
21:05:49 <Zakim> +Cyril; got it
21:05:50 <cabanier> for me too
21:05:55 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012AprJun/0014.html
21:05:58 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
21:06:05 <Zakim> +??P17
21:06:23 <Zakim> +ChrisL
21:06:54 <ChrisL> zakim, who is noisy?
21:07:04 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: heycam (63%), Cyril (14%), ??P17 (30%)
21:07:23 <Zakim> + +61.2.980.5.aaaa
21:07:30 <ChrisL> tav, speak for a moment
21:07:49 <ChrisL> zakim, who is speaking?
21:08:00 <Zakim> ChrisL, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: heycam (59%)
21:08:35 <heycam> Scribe: krit
21:08:40 <nikos> nikos has joined #svg
21:08:49 <krit> topic: Progress update on SVG 2
21:08:56 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Commitments
21:09:14 <krit> heycam: Want to see the assignments on the wiki
21:09:46 <krit> heycam: original plan was publish 1st WD at the end of the month
21:10:00 <krit> heycam: will be sections added we assgined for
21:10:05 <krit> heycam: + changes
21:10:18 <nikos> Zakim, who's here
21:10:18 <Zakim> nikos, you need to end that query with '?'
21:10:22 <nikos> Zakim, who's here?
21:10:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see cabanier, Doug_Schepers, heycam, ??P15, Cyril, ??P17, ChrisL, +61.2.980.5.aaaa
21:10:41 <Zakim> -??P17
21:11:09 <Zakim> - +61.2.980.5.aaaa
21:11:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
21:11:33 <Tav> zakim, ??P15 is me
21:11:33 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
21:11:41 <Zakim> + +61.2.980.5.aabb
21:11:58 <nikos> Zakim, it's me
21:11:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'it's me', nikos
21:12:08 <Zakim> +krit
21:12:18 <nikos> Zakim, +61.2.680.5.aabb is me
21:12:18 <Zakim> sorry, nikos, I do not recognize a party named '+61.2.680.5.aabb'
21:12:32 <nikos> Zakim, 61.2.680.5.aabb is me
21:12:32 <Zakim> sorry, nikos, I do not recognize a party named '61.2.680.5.aabb'
21:12:43 <heycam> Zakim, +61.2 is nikos
21:12:43 <Zakim> +nikos; got it
21:13:07 <krit1> krit1 has joined #svg
21:13:41 <Zakim> -Tav
21:15:07 <krit> Cyril: it is a chnage to the planning on the page
21:15:14 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Planning_Page
21:15:40 <krit> Cyril: all placeholdershould be published by april
21:15:59 <Zakim> +??P15
21:16:00 <krit> Cyril: we have to prepare for traveling and so on
21:16:20 <krit> heycam: we won't publish the WD in april
21:16:29 <Tav> zakim, ??P15 is me
21:16:29 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
21:16:29 <krit> Cyril: what about july? too late?
21:16:37 <krit> heycam: it depends
21:16:59 <krit> heycam: published draft even very intial would be goos
21:17:06 <krit> s/goos/good/
21:17:42 <krit> heycam: who did not so far, sign up till next week
21:17:50 <krit> heycam: and add topics into spec
21:18:02 <krit> shepazu: is playback for audio element? script API?
21:18:14 <krit> heycam: let me take a look
21:18:37 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2069
21:18:42 <krit> heycam: proposals
21:19:10 <krit> shepazu: markup properties or attrubutes?
21:19:56 <krit> shepazu: I m not an audio guy but in the audiio WD. I won't work on it ut am happy to talk with the people there.
21:20:30 <krit> shepazu: we should coordinate with audio WG
21:20:49 <krit> heycam: move on
21:20:57 <krit> shepazu: one more question
21:21:09 <krit> shepazu: I put a question mark on one of the list items
21:21:19 <krit> shepazu: In case someone wants to work on it
21:21:48 <krit> shepazu: just contact on IRC
21:22:41 <krit> heycam: even with question marks, looks like you are assigned
21:23:15 <krit> shepazu: will we have a confilct
21:23:16 <krit> ?
21:23:53 <krit> heycam: was off topic … confilcts on wiki page
21:23:59 <ChrisL> I was editing (and saving) a bunch during the call
21:24:08 <krit> heycam: next topic
21:24:39 <krit> topic: SVG 2 editing process
21:24:47 <krit> heycam: I came up with a proposal
21:24:55 <krit> ChrisL: I think it is fine in general
21:25:08 <krit> ChrisL: we can discuss if some one to objects
21:25:17 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Editing_Process
21:25:18 <krit> shepazu: It changes to resolved
21:28:35 <ChrisL> q+ to ask about masks
21:28:46 <krit> heycam: people asgined to a feature go ahead to change the section they are asigned for. Group will check it later
21:29:09 <krit> s/later/afterwards/
21:30:21 <krit> ChrisL: is the list is complete? I don't find sths, like mask (alpha, luminance)
21:31:09 <krit> ChrisL: I'd like to assign for it
21:31:24 <krit> krit: Vhardy and ed o'connnor want to work on it on FX TF
21:31:34 <krit> ChrisL: right, but how does it get into SVG 2
21:31:46 <ChrisL> ok as long as someone is doing it. css wg seems to want this urgently
21:32:59 <heycam> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2401
21:33:01 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Hit-testing_on_image_alpha
21:33:26 <ChrisL> cyril that is not the same
21:34:01 <krit> ChrisL: people say we want what svg does
21:34:07 <krit> ChrisL: but it does more than we want
21:34:12 <krit> Cyril: can you explain
21:34:22 <krit> ChrisL: currently masking use the mask element
21:34:42 <krit> ChrisL: mask is done by calculating luminance and that gets multiplied with the alpha
21:34:58 <krit> ChrisL: we may want just have alpha masking
21:35:12 <krit> ChrisL: don't find resolutions for it
21:35:33 <ChrisL> action: chris propose an update to masking for luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images
21:35:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3256 - Propose an update to masking for luminance and alpha and pointing directly at images [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-04-26].
21:36:09 <krit> action: ChrisL will look at alpha masking and luminance masking and talk to vhardy
21:36:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3257 - Will look at alpha masking and luminance masking and talk to vhardy [on Chris Lilley - due 2012-04-26].
21:36:47 <Cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Late_Proposed_Requirements
21:37:24 <krit> Cyril: we should take a look at the late propoesed requirementss
21:38:36 <Zakim> -krit
21:38:43 <krit> scribeNick: heycam
21:38:52 <ChrisL> zakim, pick a victim
21:38:52 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ChrisL
21:39:01 <ChrisL> scribenick: chrisl
21:39:34 <ChrisL> Tav: can wee resolve on the requirement for masking
21:39:37 <ChrisL> (yes)
21:39:53 <ChrisL> resolution: we will allow masks to use either alpha or luminance or both
21:40:13 <ChrisL> ChrisL: and pointing direct to images?
21:40:38 <ChrisL> tav: how would you specify if you want alpha or what
21:40:48 <ChrisL> ChrisL: the property would do that
21:41:38 <ChrisL> resolution: : svg will relax restriction on masks pointing to mask element only
21:42:05 <ChrisL> Cyril: did we resolve on the editing proposal
21:42:28 <ChrisL> heycam: yas and we already resolved on it earlier apparently
21:42:50 <ChrisL> ChrisL: prefer to soften the three week paer
21:42:52 <ChrisL> tav: yes
21:42:57 <ChrisL> heycam: ok
21:43:17 <ChrisL> topic: test content guidelines
21:43:47 <Cyril> rrsagent, pointer
21:43:47 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-irc#T21-43-47
21:43:49 <ChrisL> heycam: brian was aksing for guidelines so they can succeed or fail in the same way like all green rectangles
21:44:06 <ChrisL> tav: like red and green but if they all look the same it is confusing
21:44:17 <ChrisL> ... doesnt say what is being tested
21:44:29 <ChrisL> ... dont want a rect that covers the whole thing
21:44:51 <ChrisL> heycam: if the tests are automated you won't need to look at them
21:45:05 <ChrisL> Tav: so there is no debugging help
21:45:17 <ChrisL> Cyril: point is to automate error detection
21:45:56 <ChrisL> heycam: also easier to make reference images. but with text or paths there can be pixel differences. also easier to determine pass or fail
21:46:25 <ChrisL> Tav: but for transforms, css or attr version should be te same so no pixel diffferences
21:46:32 <ChrisL> heycam: ok
21:47:06 <ChrisL> heycam: some tests might be simple enough you want just a plain rect.
21:47:25 <ChrisL> Tav: ok for red gren fail/pass unless it is testing colors
21:47:49 <ChrisL> shepazu: we need to test for red colours for example
21:48:03 <ChrisL> Tav: we did that on the last test suite
21:48:35 <ChrisL> shepazu: good to have tests that can be automatically detected
21:48:51 <ChrisL> Cyril: yes bt we do not need green flood fill for that
21:48:59 <ChrisL> Tav: subtract the ref images
21:49:06 <ChrisL> shepazu: ok
21:49:39 <ChrisL> heycam: for animation, brian suggests tests where the final state is at one second so there is a snapshot to compare to the ref
21:50:00 <ChrisL> heycam: script can sett the time to that point
21:50:45 <ChrisL> ChrisL: for path animations you need multiple snapshots surely
21:51:13 <ChrisL> heycam: we agreed to add snapshot time so we could use that to annotate the test
21:52:03 <ChrisL> Cyril: gpac has a way to generate an xml which logs the snapshot time and you can have key events and when it replays, the snapshots are generated at the marked times
21:52:45 <ChrisL> Cyril: want it sampled every time there is a change. the author knows the critical times
21:53:00 <ChrisL> heycam: yes it is really a feature of the test itself
21:53:14 <ChrisL> heycam: avoid tests with many simultaneous animations
21:53:32 <ChrisL> tav: examples of animation reftests?
21:53:36 <ChrisL> heycam: not yet
21:53:49 <ChrisL> Cyril: can send an example
21:53:57 <Tav> http://tavmjong.free.fr/SVG/CSS/Transforms/transforms-basic-001.html
21:54:03 <ChrisL> action: cyril to send examples of gpac animation testing
21:54:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3258 - Send examples of gpac animation testing [on Cyril Concolato - due 2012-04-26].
21:54:29 <ChrisL> heycam: like that excample, tav
21:54:37 <ChrisL> tav: no browser passes yet
21:55:27 <ChrisL> heycam: ok so aiming for a single green or red rect is not good, but if it is a simple pass/fail result then go for the rect
21:56:11 <ChrisL> ChrisL: sometimes you can loose track if all the tests look the same
21:56:35 <ChrisL> (general agreement)
21:57:04 <ChrisL> heycam; does someone  have an action to set up the test structure
21:57:20 <ChrisL> tav: i set it up like css. each contributor has a submit directory
21:57:37 <ChrisL> ... once apprved they get moved
21:57:50 <ChrisL> ... the structure to run through the reftests is not done
21:58:10 <ChrisL> heycam; wonder how easy t is to handle animation tests
21:58:28 <ChrisL> tav: we talked with peter Linss who said it was possible. we need an example
22:00:26 <Zakim> -ChrisL
22:00:29 <heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
22:02:30 <heycam> heycam: would be good to have these test guidelines on a wiki page
22:02:44 <heycam> Tav: we also have the test template that I worked on
22:03:02 <heycam> … we resolved on having a link to a copyright license, waiting on chris for that
22:04:10 <heycam> ACTION: Cameron to create a test guideline page, mentioning rectangles and linking to template file
22:04:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3259 - Create a test guideline page, mentioning rectangles and linking to template file [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-04-26].
22:04:25 <heycam> Topic: F2Fs
22:05:45 <heycam> Tav: I will probably be going to SVG Open
22:06:02 <heycam> heycam: I am not sure whether we want to meet at both SVG Open and TPAC
22:06:21 <Zakim> +ChrisL
22:06:29 <ChrisL> scribenick: ChrisL
22:08:35 <ChrisL> ChrisL: (describes how to set up the css harness)
22:09:10 <ChrisL> tav: can easily make a script that extracts that
22:09:50 <heycam> ACTION: Tav to work with Chris to get test suite manifest scripts working
22:09:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3260 - Work with Chris to get test suite manifest scripts working [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2012-04-26].
22:09:55 <krit> krit has joined #svg
22:10:05 <ChrisL> action: tav work with chris to create the test manifest
22:10:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3261 - Work with chris to create the test manifest [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2012-04-26].
22:10:08 <Tav> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2/Testing_Requirements
22:10:20 <ChrisL> tav: chris we still lack the copyright link
22:10:30 <ChrisL> ChrisL: oh yes had forgotten about that
22:10:41 <ChrisL> topic: f2f
22:11:08 <ChrisL> heycam: lets not have 5 meetings
22:11:38 <ChrisL> Cyril: is the seattle one necessary
22:12:47 <ChrisL> shepazu; 5 is a lot
22:13:10 <ChrisL> Cyril: how about a seattle-paris videoconferenced meeting?
22:13:30 <ChrisL> Tav: its 9 hours difference. doable
22:13:51 <ChrisL> Cyril: might have some videoconf. polycom thing.
22:14:08 <ChrisL> cabanier: yes we have that too
22:14:17 <ChrisL> Cyril: will not be able to make seattle
22:15:37 <ChrisL> shepazu: maybe microsoft has facilities that would host this
22:15:47 <ChrisL> jen: yeah we could look into that
22:16:25 <ChrisL> 25-27 july
22:16:41 <ChrisL> cabanier: adone is hosting but no issue if microsoft hosts
22:16:56 <ChrisL> Cyril; can tell you in a couple of weeks in paristech can host
22:17:41 <ChrisL> ChrisL; a split paris-seattle would be good for me
22:18:43 <ChrisL> ChrisL; would prefer to meet at svgopen rather thn tpac if we have to choose
22:18:55 <ChrisL> shepazu; who is going to tpac anyway
22:18:59 <ChrisL> (4 or 5)
22:19:13 <ChrisL> shepazu: so maybe a short mostly-liaison meeting at tpac
22:19:52 <ChrisL> heycam: ok so tell tpac that we only need one day?
22:20:31 <ChrisL> resolved: one day liaison meeting at tpac
22:21:21 <ChrisL> resolved: split seattle/paris ftf in july if feasible
22:22:20 <ChrisL> resolved: meet at svgopen/graphicalweb in zurich, main meet rather than tpac
22:23:04 <ChrisL> heycam: three meetings 2 months apart
22:23:16 <ChrisL> ChrisL: but fits in well with svg2 editing push
22:23:49 <ChrisL> topic: review of path related cancas additions
22:23:51 <heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2012JanMar/0192.html
22:25:03 <ChrisL> ChrisL: dmitry had a nice proposal with a path-like syntax for animations
22:25:50 <ChrisL> heycam: relevat for the improved dom work
22:26:24 <ChrisL> ... as for feedback to html, my comments in the mail  are that its is generally ok
22:26:40 <ChrisL> ... but how the object relates to our pathseglist which is yucky
22:27:20 <ChrisL> cabanier: idea is that people share knowledge between using canvas and svg
22:28:19 <ChrisL> heycam; pathseglist can't assign a new object, need to either replace all items or set upa whole new path data stream
22:29:11 <ChrisL> ... so for dom improvement, we should improve path and that informs how we relate to the html canvas path api. need to lok at our improvements before deciding that
22:29:32 <ChrisL> ... use of svgmatrix, functions for path to stroke or svg text on path are all fine as is
22:29:52 <ChrisL> shepazu: any other path based operations
22:30:13 <ChrisL> heycam; can't get path data out. can only paint it. its opaque
22:30:55 <ChrisL> shepazu: want an api that gives you vector effects like stuff
22:31:29 <ChrisL> ChrisL: yes we said we would add that on vector effects
22:32:42 <ChrisL> ChrisL; are the opaque path objects a problem here or not/ they can be manipulated, just not inspected
22:33:04 <ChrisL> heycam; might be a simplification or might be a way to avoid exposing it to script
22:33:19 <ChrisL> cabanier: gives more freedo on internal storage
22:33:52 <ChrisL> ... often you just want the result
22:34:17 <ChrisL> shepazu: can you do it with text and thus capture the text
22:34:21 <ChrisL> heycam: yes
22:34:40 <ChrisL> ... we wanted to capture tet as outlines
22:34:46 <ChrisL> s/tet/text/
22:35:06 <ChrisL> shepazu: so are these in the svg2 requirements
22:35:12 <ChrisL> heycam: dont think
22:36:13 <ChrisL> resolution: we will have a vector effects api to get reesulting paths (ned to discuss normalisation)
22:37:11 <ChrisL> ChrisL: easier to implement if the generated paths are not standardised, onkly the shape they make
22:37:25 <ChrisL> heycam: danger of a small, deep rathole
22:37:44 <ChrisL> heycam: so for review comments
22:37:56 <ChrisL> (general agreement with hecam's suggestions)
22:38:16 <ChrisL> zakim, list attendees
22:38:16 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Doug_Schepers, heycam, cabanier, [Microsoft], Cyril, ChrisL, +61.2.980.5.aaaa, Tav, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, nikos
22:38:21 <ChrisL> chair: heycam
22:38:22 <Zakim> -cabanier
22:38:24 <heycam> ACTION: Cameron to mail HTML WG with path API comments
22:38:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3262 - Mail HTML WG with path API comments [on Cameron McCormack - due 2012-04-26].
22:38:24 <Zakim> -ChrisL
22:38:26 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
22:38:28 <Zakim> -Cyril
22:38:29 <Zakim> -heycam
22:38:29 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
22:38:34 <Zakim> -Tav
22:38:34 <ChrisL> rrsagent, make minutes
22:38:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-svg-minutes.html ChrisL
22:38:36 <Zakim> -nikos
22:38:37 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM has ended
22:38:37 <Zakim> Attendees were Doug_Schepers, heycam, cabanier, [Microsoft], Cyril, ChrisL, +61.2.980.5.aaaa, Tav, +61.2.980.5.aabb, krit, nikos
22:39:15 <Cyril> Cyril has left #svg
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