IRC log of dnt on 2012-04-18
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:46:00 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dnt
- 15:46:00 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-dnt-irc
- 15:46:03 [rvaneijk]
- rvaneijk has joined #dnt
- 15:46:09 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #dnt
- 15:46:18 [aleecia]
- Zakim, this is dnt
- 15:46:18 [Zakim]
- aleecia, I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be dnt".
- 15:46:26 [aleecia]
- Zakim, this will be dnt
- 15:46:26 [Zakim]
- ok, aleecia; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
- 15:46:42 [aleecia]
- regrets+ efelten
- 15:46:57 [aleecia]
- chair: aleecia, schunter
- 15:47:07 [aleecia]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 15:47:10 [aleecia]
- agenda?
- 15:48:08 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Selection of scribe
- 15:48:19 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Any comments on minutes
- 15:48:41 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Review of overdue action items: https://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/overdue
- 15:48:58 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Request WG's permission to schedule next f2f with six weeks, not eight weeks, notice
- 15:49:09 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Compliance document issues, led by Aleecia
- 15:49:12 [rvaneijk]
- Hi all
- 15:49:24 [aleecia]
- agenda+ TPE document issues, led by Matthias and editors
- 15:49:34 [aleecia]
- agenda+ Announce next meeting & adjourn
- 15:49:40 [aleecia]
- Hi Rob
- 15:50:26 [Zakim]
- T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
- 15:50:33 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.674.aaaa
- 15:50:44 [aleecia]
- zakim, aaaa is aleecia
- 15:50:44 [Zakim]
- +aleecia; got it
- 15:50:44 [rvaneijk]
- Hi, is today the TPE or compliance document?
- 15:50:51 [aleecia]
- split across them
- 15:51:12 [aleecia]
- Compliance is mostly housekeeping with one discussion on consent you might be interested in
- 15:51:24 [rvaneijk]
- ok, tnx
- 15:51:30 [aleecia]
- specifically, Issue-69, three proposals for what it means to give consent to be tracked. See http://www.w3.org/TR/tracking-compliance/#consent -- do we have any consensus here?
- 15:52:12 [aleecia]
- also going through auditing proposal, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Mar/0419.html
- 15:52:20 [bilcorry]
- bilcorry has joined #dnt
- 15:52:37 [ac]
- ac has joined #dnt
- 15:52:59 [aleecia]
- good morning, Bil
- 15:53:35 [aleecia]
- ac, could you please let me know who you are? I'm afraid that isn't enough for me to map to a person.
- 15:54:58 [Zakim]
- + +31.65.141.aabb
- 15:55:11 [rvaneijk]
- Zakim, aabb is rvaneijk
- 15:55:12 [Zakim]
- +rvaneijk; got it
- 15:55:19 [aleecia]
- thanks!
- 15:56:04 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.223.aacc
- 15:56:15 [Zakim]
- +??P32
- 15:56:21 [bilcorry]
- Zakim, aacc is bilcorry
- 15:56:21 [Zakim]
- +bilcorry; got it
- 15:56:25 [aleecia]
- new caller from 408: please mute, please associate yourself in IRC
- 15:56:37 [aleecia]
- thanks, Bil
- 15:57:05 [aleecia]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 15:57:16 [Zakim]
- aleecia, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (9%), bilcorry (30%)
- 15:57:23 [fielding]
- fielding has joined #dnt
- 15:57:24 [bilcorry]
- sorry
- 15:57:40 [bilcorry]
- I added my number to the registry, isn't Zakim suppose to know who I am?
- 15:57:43 [aleecia]
- so much better now than later - no worries
- 15:57:55 [Zakim]
- + +1.714.852.aadd
- 15:57:56 [aleecia]
- yes, Zakim appears to have forgotten us all again.
- 15:57:59 [npdoty]
- npdoty has joined #dnt
- 15:58:06 [bilcorry]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:58:06 [Zakim]
- bilcorry should now be muted
- 15:58:08 [fielding]
- Zakim, aadd is fielding
- 15:58:08 [Zakim]
- +fielding; got it
- 15:58:15 [aleecia]
- thanks, Roy
- 15:58:30 [KevinT]
- KevinT has joined #dnt
- 15:58:52 [Zakim]
- +npdoty
- 15:58:55 [Zakim]
- +??P37
- 15:59:15 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.587.aaee
- 15:59:24 [Zakim]
- + +1.415.520.aaff
- 15:59:33 [ifette]
- ifette has joined #dnt
- 15:59:39 [KevinT]
- zakim, aaff is KevinT
- 15:59:39 [Zakim]
- +KevinT; got it
- 15:59:40 [jchester2]
- jchester2 has joined #dnt
- 15:59:45 [schunter]
- Zakim, +??P32 is schunter
- 15:59:45 [Zakim]
- sorry, schunter, I do not recognize a party named '+??P32'
- 15:59:57 [Zakim]
- +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 16:00:02 [Lia]
- Lia has joined #dnt
- 16:00:04 [WileyS]
- WileyS has joined #DNT
- 16:00:05 [npdoty]
- ac, who are you? (we have trouble with the initials)
- 16:00:16 [Joanne]
- Joanne has joined #DNT
- 16:00:18 [fielding]
- rarebook.law.usm.maine.edu
- 16:00:20 [rvaneijk]
- ac <qw3birc@128.30.52.28> “rarebook.law.usm.maine.edu
- 16:00:34 [ifette]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:00:34 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see aleecia, rvaneijk, bilcorry (muted), ??P32, fielding, npdoty, ??P37, +1.202.587.aaee, KevinT, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 16:00:36 [Zakim]
- + +1.415.520.aagg
- 16:00:37 [npdoty]
- Zakim, aaee is Charles_NAI
- 16:00:37 [Zakim]
- +Charles_NAI; got it
- 16:00:38 [Zakim]
- + +1.727.686.aahh
- 16:00:45 [ifette]
- sigh, zakim is backed up
- 16:00:46 [schunter]
- Zakim, ??P32 is schunter
- 16:00:46 [Zakim]
- +schunter; got it
- 16:00:48 [ifette]
- still not showing me
- 16:00:51 [Joanne]
- +1.415.520 is Joanne
- 16:00:51 [aleecia]
- thanks - any ideas on who that might be from Maine?
- 16:00:57 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.370.aaii
- 16:00:59 [Zakim]
- - +1.727.686.aahh
- 16:01:02 [npdoty]
- a reminder on how to identify yourself: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html#callers
- 16:01:03 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.349.aajj
- 16:01:12 [KevinT]
- One of the NAI team was from Maine
- 16:01:17 [npdoty]
- and how to get Zakim to remember you in the future
- 16:01:18 [robsherman]
- robsherman has joined #dnt
- 16:01:18 [WileyS]
- Zakim, aajj is WileyS
- 16:01:18 [Zakim]
- +WileyS; got it
- 16:01:21 [npdoty]
- http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/info/name.php3
- 16:01:30 [Zakim]
- + +1.727.686.aakk
- 16:01:31 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.370.aaii
- 16:01:38 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.326.aall
- 16:01:56 [Zakim]
- + +1.301.270.aamm
- 16:01:58 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.370.aann
- 16:01:58 [pmagee]
- pmagee has joined #dnt
- 16:02:00 [npdoty]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:02:00 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see aleecia, rvaneijk, bilcorry (muted), schunter, fielding, npdoty, ??P37, Charles_NAI, KevinT, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, +1.415.520.aagg, WileyS, +1.727.686.aakk,
- 16:02:03 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.326.aall, +1.301.270.aamm, +1.202.370.aann
- 16:02:03 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 16:02:05 [Zakim]
- + +1.510.501.aaoo
- 16:02:06 [aleecia]
- agenda?
- 16:02:08 [vinay]
- vinay has joined #dnt
- 16:02:14 [chapell]
- chapell has joined #dnt
- 16:02:18 [Zakim]
- + +1.917.934.aapp
- 16:02:19 [robsherman]
- Zakim, aann is robsherman
- 16:02:21 [Zakim]
- -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 16:02:22 [Zakim]
- +robsherman; got it
- 16:02:24 [Zakim]
- +[Mozilla]
- 16:02:25 [Chris]
- Chris has joined #dnt
- 16:02:43 [Zakim]
- +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 16:02:45 [ifette]
- sigh
- 16:02:50 [npdoty]
- scribenick: jchester2
- 16:02:52 [NAI]
- This is Charlie Simon from the NAI - I'm calling in from Skype and cannot associate by phone
- 16:02:54 [ifette]
- Zakim, Loretta_Guarino_Reid is ifette
- 16:02:54 [Zakim]
- +ifette; got it
- 16:03:00 [rvaneijk]
- Hi Jeff, tnx
- 16:03:03 [aleecia]
- scribe: jchester2
- 16:03:05 [justin]
- justin has joined #dnt
- 16:03:21 [jchester2]
- Comments on minutes on agenda
- 16:03:24 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.637.aaqq
- 16:03:25 [Chris]
- Chris Mejia from IAB also calling from Skype- cannot associate for phone
- 16:03:32 [aleecia]
- We have minutes from 2/29 - 4/4 listed as draft, some of which we've approved on prior calls. If you have any issues with the minutes leading up to the f2f in DC, please raise them. Otherwise, we will approve them.
- 16:03:33 [npdoty]
- I still need to do cleanup on our f2f minutes
- 16:03:35 [justin]
- zakim, aaqq is justin
- 16:03:36 [Zakim]
- +justin; got it
- 16:03:39 [vinay]
- Zakim, aapp is vinay
- 16:03:39 [Zakim]
- +vinay; got it
- 16:03:40 [Zakim]
- + +1.917.318.aarr
- 16:03:43 [npdoty]
- I plan to do so this week and then I'll send them out
- 16:04:01 [ifette]
- are there link to the minutes?
- 16:04:10 [npdoty]
- Zakim, ??P37 is NAI_Charlie
- 16:04:10 [Zakim]
- +NAI_Charlie; got it
- 16:04:17 [hwest]
- hwest has joined #dnt
- 16:04:19 [Zakim]
- + +1.866.317.aass
- 16:04:31 [npdoty]
- Zakim, ??P30 is Chris_Mejia
- 16:04:31 [Zakim]
- +Chris_Mejia; got it
- 16:04:32 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.346.aatt
- 16:04:34 [jchester2]
- Am I scribing the whole meeting?
- 16:04:39 [Jules_]
- Jules_ has joined #DNT
- 16:04:41 [ifette]
- the present list is rather lacking...
- 16:04:43 [Zakim]
- +??P73
- 16:04:46 [aleecia]
- Review of overdue action items:
- 16:04:46 [aleecia]
- https://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/overdue
- 16:04:48 [ifette]
- not sure if we care
- 16:04:51 [npdoty]
- (guessing on those two VOIP callers)
- 16:04:54 [ifette]
- q+
- 16:05:02 [Zakim]
- +justin.a
- 16:05:03 [jchester2]
- Looking forward to overdue action items
- 16:05:05 [aleecia]
- ack ifette
- 16:05:07 [hwest]
- aatt has hwest
- 16:05:14 [npdoty]
- Zakim, Charles_NAI is actually unknown
- 16:05:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'Charles_NAI is actually unknown', npdoty
- 16:05:19 [npdoty]
- q+
- 16:05:20 [Anna]
- Anna has joined #dnt
- 16:05:21 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:05:27 [jchester2]
- Ian says present list doesn't reflect all participants
- 16:05:27 [hwest]
- (Wait, how do I connect the phone number and the name? Sorry)
- 16:05:32 [JC]
- JC has joined #DNT
- 16:05:33 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.684.aauu
- 16:05:36 [tl]
- tl has joined #dnt
- 16:05:46 [jchester2]
- Nick will do clean-up of minutes and attendee list
- 16:06:04 [vincent]
- vincent has joined #dnt
- 16:06:05 [jchester2]
- Ian referring to 4 April call
- 16:06:09 [rvaneijk]
- hwest, <zakim, aa.. is hwest>
- 16:06:10 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.744.aavv
- 16:06:17 [chapell]
- Zakim, 1.917.318.aarr is Chapell
- 16:06:17 [Zakim]
- sorry, chapell, I do not recognize a party named '1.917.318.aarr'
- 16:06:20 [hwest]
- watt is hwest
- 16:06:22 [jchester2]
- Nick will do clean-up on 4 April.
- 16:06:32 [hwest]
- zakim, aatt is hwest
- 16:06:32 [Zakim]
- +hwest; got it
- 16:06:39 [chapell]
- Zakim, aarr is Chapell
- 16:06:39 [Zakim]
- +Chapell; got it
- 16:06:43 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.326.aaww
- 16:06:43 [rvaneijk]
- there you go.
- 16:07:09 [cOlsen]
- cOlsen has joined #dnt
- 16:07:45 [npdoty]
- sorry, yes, I think I need to do some cleanup in order to get the correct Present lists etc. for past teleconference minutes
- 16:07:48 [aleecia]
- Action-104, Amy Colando, drafting text for fraud/defense: Even though issue-24 is not closed, I think we can close this action, at least for now. We seem to be working up the stack a layer on permitted uses in general at the moment.
- 16:07:51 [jchester2]
- Overdue action items, clean-up. Action 104, Amy on call?
- 16:07:59 [JC]
- No she won't join today
- 16:08:00 [ChrisPedigoOPA]
- ChrisPedigoOPA has joined #dnt
- 16:08:07 [alex]
- alex has joined #dnt
- 16:08:12 [aleecia]
- Action-120, Alexandros Deliyannis, web-wide exception API: It appears this action is done (see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Apr/0076.html) but issue-113 is still in discussion, I believe. Should we close the action?
- 16:08:14 [npdoty]
- Topic: Clean-up of action items
- 16:08:20 [jchester2]
- Action item 120, Alex
- 16:08:20 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - item
- 16:08:21 [Zakim]
- + +1.813.366.aaxx
- 16:08:25 [hefferjr]
- hefferjr has joined #dnt
- 16:08:31 [Dan]
- Dan has joined #dnt
- 16:08:54 [enewland]
- enewland has joined #dnt
- 16:09:13 [npdoty]
- action-177?
- 16:09:14 [trackbot]
- ACTION-177 -- Thomas Lowenthal to add an API to let a site request a web-wide exception -- due 2012-04-19 -- OPEN
- 16:09:14 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/177
- 16:09:14 [jchester2]
- Alex identified a problem with issue Item 120 associated with. There is text for Issue 138
- 16:09:32 [npdoty]
- q?
- 16:09:36 [npdoty]
- ack npdoty
- 16:09:36 [jchester2]
- Mattias suggests we close 120 and focus on new issue.
- 16:10:10 [aleecia]
- Action-131, Roy Fielding, Use case for user agent requests on tracking status resource: looks like this is still open, could use an update on status.
- 16:10:14 [johnsimpson]
- johnsimpson has joined #dnt
- 16:10:22 [npdoty]
- and a new action, action-177, to do a proposal on the original question
- 16:10:30 [tl1]
- tl1 has joined #dnt
- 16:10:41 [jchester2]
- Roy: Action 131 still open. More work coming. Another week.
- 16:10:47 [ifette]
- ACTION-131?
- 16:10:47 [trackbot]
- ACTION-131 -- Roy Fielding to sketch use case for user agent requests on tracking status resource -- due 2012-04-03 -- OPEN
- 16:10:47 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/131
- 16:10:51 [Zakim]
- + +1.813.366.aayy
- 16:10:57 [Zakim]
- - +1.727.686.aakk
- 16:11:04 [jchester2]
- Mattias suggests we opened a # of actions and we need dates added.
- 16:11:09 [aleecia]
- Action-135, Shane Wiley, detail use case for issue-111 (dnt:2): this has been closed and reopened once. I *think* it should now be closed, but will hear from Shane to be sure.
- 16:11:13 [tl1]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:11:13 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see aleecia, rvaneijk, bilcorry (muted), schunter, fielding, npdoty, NAI_Charlie, Charles_NAI, KevinT, +1.415.520.aagg, WileyS, +1.202.326.aall, +1.301.270.aamm,
- 16:11:16 [Zakim]
- ... robsherman, Chris_Mejia, +1.510.501.aaoo, vinay, [Mozilla], ifette, justin, Chapell, +1.866.317.aass, hwest, ??P73, justin.a, [Microsoft], +1.202.684.aauu, +1.202.744.aavv,
- 16:11:16 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.326.aaww, +1.813.366.aaxx, +1.813.366.aayy
- 16:11:31 [tl1]
- zakim, mozilla has tl
- 16:11:31 [Zakim]
- +tl; got it
- 16:11:32 [Zakim]
- -Chapell
- 16:11:42 [Zakim]
- + +1.310.392.aazz
- 16:12:03 [johnsimpson]
- zakim johnsimpson is aazz
- 16:12:15 [alex]
- zakim, alex is aaxx
- 16:12:15 [Zakim]
- sorry, alex, I do not recognize a party named 'alex'
- 16:12:16 [aleecia]
- action-135 to move to pending review
- 16:12:16 [jchester2]
- Shane says we have draft text on DNT header
- 16:12:24 [johnsimpson]
- zakim, who is on the phone
- 16:12:24 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the phone', johnsimpson
- 16:12:29 [alex]
- zakim, aaxx is alex
- 16:12:29 [Zakim]
- +alex; got it
- 16:12:32 [ifette]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 16:12:32 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see aleecia, rvaneijk, bilcorry (muted), schunter, fielding, npdoty, NAI_Charlie, Charles_NAI, KevinT, +1.415.520.aagg, WileyS, +1.202.326.aall, +1.301.270.aamm,
- 16:12:35 [Zakim]
- ... robsherman, Chris_Mejia, +1.510.501.aaoo, vinay, [Mozilla], ifette, justin, +1.866.317.aass, hwest, ??P73, justin.a, [Microsoft], +1.202.684.aauu, +1.202.744.aavv,
- 16:12:35 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.326.aaww, alex, +1.813.366.aayy, +1.310.392.aazz
- 16:12:35 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] has tl
- 16:12:42 [jchester2]
- Tom: Does pending review status says we have proposed text
- 16:13:03 [tedleung]
- tedleung has joined #dnt
- 16:13:06 [npdoty]
- Zakim, Charles_NAI is 1.202.587.aaee
- 16:13:07 [Zakim]
- +1.202.587.aaee; got it
- 16:13:17 [johnsimpson]
- apologies, bad traffic today
- 16:13:24 [dsriedel]
- dsriedel has joined #dnt
- 16:13:28 [jchester2]
- Tom: Is this issue still open because we no text for it.
- 16:13:28 [Zakim]
- + +1.206.369.bbaa
- 16:13:32 [johnsimpson]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:13:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, johnsimpson, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:13:39 [Zakim]
- + +49.721.913.74.bbbb
- 16:13:43 [jchester2]
- Mattias: We have to put this issue in pending rveiew because there is text.
- 16:13:50 [dsriedel]
- zakim, bbbb is dsriedel
- 16:13:50 [Zakim]
- +dsriedel; got it
- 16:13:55 [dsriedel]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:13:55 [Zakim]
- dsriedel should now be muted
- 16:14:05 [npdoty]
- can someone point us to the text proposal for 135? just having a link in the action would be helpful here
- 16:14:16 [tedleung]
- zakim, tedleung is bbaa
- 16:14:16 [Zakim]
- sorry, tedleung, I do not recognize a party named 'tedleung'
- 16:14:26 [npdoty]
- Zakim, bbaa is tedleung
- 16:14:27 [Zakim]
- +tedleung; got it
- 16:14:28 [WileyS]
- Fair - we have framing text but not proposed final text
- 16:14:33 [jmayer]
- jmayer has joined #dnt
- 16:14:40 [johnsimpson]
- zakim, johnsimpson is 310.392.aazz
- 16:14:40 [Zakim]
- sorry, johnsimpson, I do not recognize a party named 'johnsimpson'
- 16:15:11 [npdoty]
- so, we can re-assign to Matthias to send out a specific text proposal?
- 16:15:11 [WileyS]
- zakim, aazz is johnsimpson
- 16:15:11 [Zakim]
- +johnsimpson; got it
- 16:15:12 [aleecia]
- Action-139, Tom Lowenthal, reword "affirmatively clicking" to something more general than clicking: this has been open 6 weeks. Would someone other than Tom be willing to pick it up? Shouldn't be too hard, should get done, but we need to get this out of lingering.
- 16:15:21 [ifette]
- ACTION-139?
- 16:15:21 [trackbot]
- ACTION-139 -- Thomas Lowenthal to improve wording of 3.9 "Meaningful Interaction" to avoid "affirmatively clicking" and make sure that "clicking" is replaced with something more general. -- due 2012-04-04 -- OPEN
- 16:15:21 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/139
- 16:15:40 [johnsimpson]
- thanks, shane. don't know why it did n't recognize me
- 16:15:46 [jmayer]
- Is this ACTION mooted by our new proposal?
- 16:15:50 [jchester2]
- Action 139. Reword clicking concept. Looking for more general language. Anyone volunteer to take action on wording?
- 16:15:50 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - 139.
- 16:16:04 [jmayer]
- I don't think we required "clicking" anywhere.
- 16:16:30 [ifette]
- ACTION-139 due May 14 2012
- 16:16:30 [trackbot]
- ACTION-139 Improve wording of 3.9 "Meaningful Interaction" to avoid "affirmatively clicking" and make sure that "clicking" is replaced with something more general. due date now May 14 2012
- 16:16:33 [WileyS]
- John, the format is "Z, <last four alpha code from phone #> is <your IRC handle>"
- 16:16:56 [justin]
- clicking is not required under current def
- 16:17:01 [aleecia]
- Action-150, Ninja Marnau, EU legal implications of *: last we heard, Ninja and Shane were working on this together. Status now?
- 16:17:20 [Zakim]
- +Chapell
- 16:17:22 [WileyS]
- Should add this to new document
- 16:17:37 [npdoty]
- "Global Considerations"
- 16:18:10 [jchester2]
- Question is whether this issue should go to new document---global considerations--move to discussion there. Waiting for developments.
- 16:18:16 [npdoty]
- I thought this also had implications for our API design on * vs origin/origin
- 16:18:20 [jchester2]
- +1
- 16:18:35 [tl1]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:18:35 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl1, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:18:36 [ifette]
- s/Question/WileyS: Question/
- 16:18:44 [npdoty]
- action-174?
- 16:18:44 [trackbot]
- ACTION-174 -- Ninja Marnau to write up implication of origin/* exceptions in EU context -- due 2012-04-19 -- OPEN
- 16:18:44 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/174
- 16:18:48 [tl]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:18:48 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:18:56 [tl]
- zakim, mozilla has tl
- 16:18:56 [Zakim]
- tl was already listed in [Mozilla], tl
- 16:19:07 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.684.aauu
- 16:19:14 [tl]
- zakim, how are you confused as to which phone i'm on!
- 16:19:14 [Zakim]
- I don't understand you, tl
- 16:19:21 [tl]
- zakim, clearly!
- 16:19:21 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'clearly!', tl
- 16:19:32 [WileyS]
- I think that is something different
- 16:19:32 [aleecia]
- brilliant
- 16:19:36 [Zakim]
- + +1.202.684.bbcc
- 16:19:42 [tl]
- zakim, mozilla has me
- 16:19:42 [Zakim]
- tl was already listed in [Mozilla], tl
- 16:19:48 [tl]
- zakim, mute me.
- 16:19:48 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:19:53 [jmayer]
- Zakim, bbcc is jmayer
- 16:19:53 [Zakim]
- +jmayer; got it
- 16:19:56 [tl]
- zakim, mozilla does not have tl
- 16:19:56 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'mozilla does not have tl', tl
- 16:19:57 [aleecia]
- Action-151, JC Cannon, personalization for logged in: has this been overtaken by new action items from the f2f?
- 16:19:58 [ifette]
- Zakim, mute Mozilla
- 16:19:58 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should now be muted
- 16:20:05 [ifette]
- :)
- 16:20:12 [tl]
- That's cheating.
- 16:20:13 [jchester2]
- Item 151, JC on personalization for logged in
- 16:20:15 [vincent]
- vincent has joined #dnt
- 16:20:21 [JC]
- Yes
- 16:20:33 [jchester2]
- There are open actions they make this irrelevant says Aleecia and JC. 151 closed.
- 16:20:38 [aleecia]
- Action-152, Shane Wiley, logged in means consent: has this been overtaken by new action items from the f2f?
- 16:20:51 [aleecia]
- Action-156, Heather West, change to "permitted uses" and "user granted exceptions": Heather's done some editorial work, this may be done. Status?
- 16:20:56 [WileyS]
- We have draft text before the group
- 16:20:58 [jchester2]
- Same for 152.
- 16:21:05 [ifette]
- tl, you can always do 61# to mute and 60# to unmute
- 16:21:06 [Zakim]
- +??P9
- 16:21:07 [WileyS]
- Open item is for non-normative text to be drafted with Justin
- 16:21:09 [npdoty]
- well, we have text from Shane on 152, we can just make that pending review/closed because Shane has completed it
- 16:21:37 [WileyS]
- Nick, Justin and I owe the group non-normative text to support the normative text with examples
- 16:21:42 [jchester2]
- Action 156. Heather and Erica has done a lot of work--very close to done.
- 16:21:42 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - 156.
- 16:22:07 [ifette]
- tl, i'm lazy too...
- 16:22:09 [aleecia]
- Action-107, Amy Colando, action is closed with a no text proposal
- 16:22:09 [aleecia]
- Action-123, Jeff Chester, response to 1st/3rd proposal: closed, as per WG call prior to f2f
- 16:22:10 [aleecia]
- Action-124, Amy Colando, draft alternate 1st/3rd proposal: closed, likewise overtaken by events
- 16:22:10 [aleecia]
- Action-141, Rigo Wenning, text around user agents and consent: leaving open, untouched. Rigo completed this action, to a bit of disagreement on the list. I think Rigo will not be able to make the call. We should pick this topic up and see if we can get a resolution on the next call he joins.
- 16:22:11 [aleecia]
- Action-162, Erica Newland, remove note from section 5.3 now that we have consensus: status?
- 16:22:13 [aleecia]
- Action-165, Ian Fette, geoloc compliance, non-normative text: status?
- 16:22:14 [npdoty]
- WileyS, is that action 179? or should we open a new action on justin regarding that?
- 16:22:15 [aleecia]
- Action-166, Heather West, updating text on "collection" &c: status?
- 16:22:24 [ifette]
- ACTION-165?
- 16:22:24 [trackbot]
- ACTION-165 -- Ian Fette to draft example text around using the Geolocation API for non-normative text on "Geolocation compliance" section in Compliance -- due 2012-04-18 -- OPEN
- 16:22:24 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/165
- 16:22:25 [tl]
- +q
- 16:22:30 [jchester2]
- New business.
- 16:22:32 [npdoty]
- ack tl
- 16:22:34 [tl]
- zakim, unmute mozilla
- 16:22:34 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should no longer be muted
- 16:22:45 [npdoty]
- Zakim, [Mozilla] has tl
- 16:22:45 [Zakim]
- tl was already listed in [Mozilla], npdoty
- 16:23:01 [vincent]
- zakim, +??P9 is vincent
- 16:23:01 [Zakim]
- sorry, vincent, I do not recognize a party named '+??P9'
- 16:23:09 [npdoty]
- Zakim, in that case, why didn't you unmute Mozilla when we ack'ed tl?
- 16:23:09 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, npdoty.
- 16:23:25 [vincent]
- zakim, ??P9 is vincent
- 16:23:25 [Zakim]
- +vincent; got it
- 16:24:08 [ifette]
- ACTION-165 due April 25 2012
- 16:24:08 [trackbot]
- ACTION-165 Draft example text around using the Geolocation API for non-normative text on "Geolocation compliance" section in Compliance due date now April 25 2012
- 16:24:08 [Chapell]
- Chapell has joined #dnt
- 16:24:15 [jchester2]
- Action-165. Status request for Ian
- 16:24:35 [jchester2]
- Ian needs another week.
- 16:24:56 [tl]
- zakim, mute mozilla
- 16:24:56 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should now be muted
- 16:25:15 [WileyS]
- Objection - we need 8 weeks
- 16:25:21 [jchester2]
- Aleecia: We can change requirement for F2F so we have six weeks, rather 8 weeks, notice.
- 16:25:30 [Chapell]
- eight weeks would be much better
- 16:26:11 [Chris]
- agree with Shane; 6-weeks is very short notice
- 16:26:13 [jchester2]
- +q
- 16:26:19 [NAI]
- agree with Shane et al. - please leave at eight weeks.
- 16:26:53 [Chris]
- 8-weeks is also tight, but doable
- 16:26:55 [Zakim]
- -dsriedel
- 16:26:56 [rvaneijk]
- Aleecia, have you had contact with DG INFSO ?
- 16:27:12 [Zakim]
- - +1.510.501.aaoo
- 16:27:18 [jchester2]
- I think we need to meet earlier so we can show public we are making serious progress.
- 16:27:21 [JC]
- I can't make Europe trip
- 16:27:24 [fielding]
- CA, please
- 16:27:25 [WileyS]
- Aleecia, you have multiple folks on the chain saying they need 8 weeks. No way I can do Brussels again in 8 weeks.
- 16:27:26 [rvaneijk]
- West coast works for me too.
- 16:27:28 [hwest]
- I can't make early June
- 16:27:35 [jmayer]
- The EU deadline for DNT is June.
- 16:27:37 [tl]
- Seriously?
- 16:27:40 [justin]
- zakim, who is speaking
- 16:27:40 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is speaking', justin
- 16:27:42 [WileyS]
- Zakim, who is speaking?
- 16:27:42 [ifette]
- Zakim, who's making noise?
- 16:27:42 [johnsimpson]
- europe looks very difficult
- 16:27:44 [fielding]
- zakim, who is making noise
- 16:27:44 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is making noise', fielding
- 16:27:46 [tl]
- Whiskey tango foxtrot.
- 16:27:49 [ifette]
- Zakim, who is making noise?
- 16:27:52 [johnsimpson]
- zakim mute me
- 16:27:52 [Zakim]
- WileyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (50%), npdoty (19%)
- 16:28:00 [WileyS]
- Sounds like it is Nick
- 16:28:01 [vincent]
- zakim mute me
- 16:28:02 [ifette]
- Zakim, who is making noise?
- 16:28:03 [Zakim]
- ifette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (38%), +1.301.270.aamm (5%), npdoty (45%)
- 16:28:04 [tl]
- Are we being trolled right now, because that's what it sounds like.
- 16:28:07 [KevinT]
- Awesome
- 16:28:07 [ifette]
- Zakim, drop aamm
- 16:28:07 [Zakim]
- +1.301.270.aamm is being disconnected
- 16:28:09 [Zakim]
- - +1.301.270.aamm
- 16:28:10 [Zakim]
- -npdoty
- 16:28:14 [Zakim]
- ifette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (94%), Chapell (19%), npdoty (15%)
- 16:28:25 [Zakim]
- ifette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (59%)
- 16:28:28 [Zakim]
- +npdoty
- 16:28:29 [npdoty]
- Zakim, mute me
- 16:28:29 [Zakim]
- npdoty should now be muted
- 16:28:39 [jmayer]
- Seriously, you can't plan travel six weeks in advance?
- 16:28:47 [vincent]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:28:47 [Zakim]
- vincent should now be muted
- 16:28:51 [Zakim]
- + +1.301.270.bbdd
- 16:28:56 [WileyS]
- I have travel planned for the next 6 weeks already.
- 16:28:56 [ifette]
- jmayer, the problem isn't finding flights or hotels, the problem is that people have exisitng commitments
- 16:29:27 [aleecia]
- Action-56, Kevin Trilli, auditing compliance text. In DC we did not take this up because people had not had time to review the proposal. If Kevin or Alex are on the call, I will ask for a summary of their proposal for issue-21: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Mar/0419.html [I'm particularly confused by "TSLs"; I think this is just a very bad name space collision.]
- 16:29:28 [jmayer]
- ifette, that's a date issue
- 16:29:31 [npdoty]
- Zakim, bbdd is jchester2
- 16:29:31 [Zakim]
- +jchester2; got it
- 16:29:41 [jmayer]
- Fix: float several dates in June
- 16:29:42 [jchester2]
- +1.301.270.jchester2
- 16:29:49 [npdoty]
- Zakim, aamm was jchester2
- 16:29:49 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'aamm was jchester2', npdoty
- 16:30:07 [ifette]
- jchester, sorry -- I asked Zakim who was making noise and it pointed to an unidentified number which turned out to be you. Nothing personal.
- 16:30:10 [jchester2]
- zakim. mute me
- 16:30:19 [npdoty]
- Zakim, mute jchester2
- 16:30:19 [Zakim]
- jchester2 should now be muted
- 16:30:27 [tl]
- +q
- 16:30:36 [jchester2]
- -q
- 16:31:27 [WileyS]
- Don't well known URIs and Response Headers cover this?
- 16:31:58 [aleecia]
- tom, pointer?
- 16:32:05 [jchester2]
- There are mechanisms for audit and monitoring to ensure compliance. Removing from spec doesn't may sense. Enabling may statement. Linkage in user agent.
- 16:32:47 [jchester2]
- Having organaizations providing list of compliant DNT players
- 16:33:30 [tl]
- aleecia, what are you asking for a pointer to?
- 16:33:54 [tl]
- zakim, unmute mozilla.
- 16:33:54 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should no longer be muted
- 16:34:09 [aleecia]
- ack tl
- 16:34:20 [johnsimpson]
- Kevin, Do you have text?
- 16:34:26 [jchester2]
- Tom says there isn't need for additional auditing compliance in the spec.
- 16:34:53 [npdoty]
- I think the proposal was for a field to indicate that a particular authority has done a particular type of auditing.
- 16:35:10 [alex]
- q?
- 16:35:12 [jchester2]
- Tom has no objection to adding field or set of fields for auditing. Doesn't think much more addition needed here.
- 16:35:13 [tl]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:35:13 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:35:17 [alex]
- q+
- 16:35:23 [npdoty]
- Zakim, mute Mozilla
- 16:35:23 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should now be muted
- 16:35:29 [npdoty]
- Zakim, unmute Mozilla
- 16:35:29 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should no longer be muted
- 16:35:44 [rvaneijk]
- You could probably also use the DNT-extention for audit
- 16:35:58 [WileyS]
- "enjoys auditing" :-)
- 16:35:59 [rvaneijk]
- s/extension/extention/
- 16:36:20 [alex]
- q?
- 16:36:30 [jchester2]
- Tom: We need to ask whether this is needed in version 1.
- 16:36:53 [aleecia]
- ack alex
- 16:36:53 [jmayer]
- +q
- 16:36:54 [tl]
- I agree Nick, my fault.
- 16:37:31 [WileyS]
- Sounds like TPLs again <cringe>
- 16:37:38 [jchester2]
- Alex: Clarification. This proposal is focused on external entity that you trust and have a mechanism on user agent to bring in a third party.
- 16:38:00 [aleecia]
- ack jmayer
- 16:38:01 [tl]
- +q
- 16:38:08 [johnsimpson]
- Is there text on this?
- 16:38:14 [aleecia]
- TPLs was a crazy naming problem, imho
- 16:38:24 [aleecia]
- text is still: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2012Mar/0419.html
- 16:38:27 [jchester2]
- Jonathan believes there will be a # of methods that can be used for auditing and what's needed will shift over time.
- 16:38:58 [jchester2]
- We should say silent on this issue, says Jonathan, but can have a best practices doc.
- 16:39:00 [Chapell]
- +1 to Mayer - we should stay silent on the specs around auditing and consider having an outside document around best practices
- 16:39:09 [Zakim]
- -jmayer
- 16:39:11 [fielding]
- It would not be difficult to add an optional field "auditor" with link as value even if it is not included in version 1
- 16:39:27 [Zakim]
- +jmayer
- 16:39:34 [schunter]
- +q
- 16:39:48 [tl]
- fielding: Exactly.
- 16:39:49 [npdoty]
- +1 to fielding, a link is easy and can provide validation if you de-reference it
- 16:40:04 [jmayer]
- Then this seems a TPE issue.
- 16:40:17 [tl]
- Agreed, jmayer.
- 16:40:30 [tl]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:40:30 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:40:33 [npdoty]
- ack tl
- 16:40:36 [npdoty]
- Zakim, unmute Mozilla
- 16:40:36 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] was not muted, npdoty
- 16:40:38 [tl]
- zakim, unmute mozilla
- 16:40:38 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] was not muted, tl
- 16:41:24 [jchester2]
- Tom: Nothing stopping auditors and parties working out what should be in uri.
- 16:42:31 [fielding]
- we don't need name
- 16:42:35 [jchester2]
- Tom proposes we add 2 fields to the spec--auditor name and auditor uri.
- 16:42:40 [schunter]
- We need to allow multiple auditors.
- 16:42:56 [jmayer]
- schunter, ok, auditor array
- 16:42:59 [jchester2]
- Kevin agrees that will be sufficient as baseline.
- 16:43:10 [npdoty]
- fielding, agreed, auditor URI should make it easy for interested user agents to determine the auditor's real world name
- 16:43:21 [WileyS]
- Agreed - Yahoo! has multiple auditors that are attached to practices that may stem from DNT activities (DNT itself, financial audits, etc.)
- 16:43:22 [schunter]
- q-
- 16:43:35 [tl]
- zakim, mute mozilla
- 16:43:35 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should now be muted
- 16:43:55 [tl]
- I have no objection for an array of URIs.
- 16:43:55 [WileyS]
- +q
- 16:44:01 [aleecia]
- q?
- 16:44:41 [jmayer]
- e.g. "auditors": ["http://www.truste.com/", "http://www.stanford.edu/"]
- 16:45:19 [tl]
- yes, action me
- 16:45:20 [fielding]
- jmayer, yep -- an array makes sense
- 16:45:22 [jchester2]
- This belongs in TPE spec as well. Tom will do next pass on this issue and check with Kevin.
- 16:45:36 [tl]
- I suggest more like "auditors": ["http://www.truste.com/this-sites-audit.xml", "http://www.stanford.edu/this-sites-audit.xml"]
- 16:45:44 [Chris]
- there are multiple auditors already working in this space, on the advertising front
- 16:45:52 [npdoty]
- action: lowenthal to draft specific field proposal for optional auditors (with Kevin)
- 16:45:52 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-185 - Draft specific field proposal for optional auditors (with Kevin) [on Thomas Lowenthal - due 2012-04-25].
- 16:45:53 [jchester2]
- Closing Action-56.
- 16:45:58 [aleecia]
- Action-61, Tom Lowenthal, public commitments: we were postponing issue-45 until we had greater clarity on the TPE aspects of the response. Are we ready to pick this all back up again?
- 16:46:21 [aleecia]
- action-61?
- 16:46:21 [trackbot]
- ACTION-61 -- Thomas Lowenthal to write no-change proposal for ISSUE-45 -- due 2012-02-03 -- CLOSED
- 16:46:21 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/61
- 16:46:27 [fielding]
- tl, then we should call it "audits"
- 16:46:29 [ifette]
- ISSUE-45?
- 16:46:29 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-45 -- Companies making public commitments with a "regulatory hook" for US legal purposes -- pending review
- 16:46:29 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/45
- 16:46:47 [jmayer]
- +q
- 16:46:50 [tl]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:46:50 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 16:46:54 [tl]
- zakim, unmute mozilla
- 16:46:54 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should no longer be muted
- 16:46:54 [WileyS]
- -q
- 16:47:17 [jchester2]
- Tom believes this issue is almost resolved. His action-61 is closed.
- 16:48:28 [npdoty]
- we're talking about http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/drafts/tracking-compliance.html#enforcement
- 16:48:43 [justin]
- That non-normative addition would be a good idea.
- 16:49:04 [justin]
- I can do it
- 16:49:04 [jchester2]
- Jonathan says that by having response header, also fulfilled requirement.
- 16:49:28 [npdoty]
- action: justin to clarify non-normative text on making a public commitment (also in a privacy policy, e.g.)
- 16:49:28 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-186 - Clarify non-normative text on making a public commitment (also in a privacy policy, e.g.) [on Justin Brookman - due 2012-04-25].
- 16:49:39 [npdoty]
- action-186: related to issue-45
- 16:49:39 [trackbot]
- ACTION-186 Clarify non-normative text on making a public commitment (also in a privacy policy, e.g.) notes added
- 16:50:12 [Zakim]
- -Chapell
- 16:50:12 [jmayer]
- My thoughts on a consent standard, if the group gets there, are on the list.
- 16:50:20 [Zakim]
- -jmayer
- 16:50:39 [justin]
- OK, will send to you after I revise.
- 16:50:40 [npdoty]
- action-186: tl has volunteered to help, and has opinions
- 16:50:40 [trackbot]
- ACTION-186 Clarify non-normative text on making a public commitment (also in a privacy policy, e.g.) notes added
- 16:50:40 [jchester2]
- Tom will work with Justin on this.
- 16:50:58 [aleecia]
- Action-49, Shane, about permitted uses. I think the definitions proposed here are already incorporated in the two major proposals, though I also think we heard from Rob that tighter definitions would be quite helpful. Suggestion: we close this action and review text as part of the proposals.
- 16:51:13 [aleecia]
- action-49?
- 16:51:13 [trackbot]
- ACTION-49 -- Shane Wiley to propose what the operational carve-outs for 3.6.1.2.1 (e.g. debugging by 3rd party) are -- due 2012-01-31 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:51:13 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/49
- 16:51:23 [WileyS]
- Agreed - modifying/adding non-normative text now
- 16:51:41 [rvaneijk]
- I sent WileyS a mail, will wait for that.
- 16:51:56 [aleecia]
- Action-72, Kathy Joe, text for issue-25, issue-74 on permitted uses: this action is done, but I think this is getting folded into the larger proposals. There's no "postponed" state for actions, and I don't want to close it quite yet -- leaving it as pending review seems the least wrong option this week.
- 16:52:16 [rvaneijk]
- s/crusial/would be quite helpful/
- 16:52:40 [aleecia]
- action-72?
- 16:52:40 [trackbot]
- ACTION-72 -- Kathy Joe to review aleecia's draft on issue-25, issue-74 -- due 2012-02-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:52:40 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/72
- 16:53:18 [jchester2]
- Having discussions on higher level on permitted users.
- 16:53:28 [aleecia]
- Action-137, Tom Lowenthal, targeting based on registration: listed as pending review but does not link to an email thread. Status?
- 16:53:36 [jchester2]
- sorry. Users!
- 16:53:49 [aleecia]
- action-137?
- 16:53:49 [trackbot]
- ACTION-137 -- Thomas Lowenthal to draft alternate proposal on first-party targeting based on registration information -- due 2012-03-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
- 16:53:49 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/137
- 16:54:14 [aleecia]
- so action-72 goes to open
- 16:54:27 [aleecia]
- and action-137 goes to closed
- 16:54:27 [Zakim]
- +dsriedel
- 16:54:33 [jchester2]
- Tom says we close this item.
- 16:54:41 [aleecia]
- Action-73, action-74, action-76, action-77, action-78: these were the five views from Belgium (remember to forget me, etc.) Several of them have been incorporated in other ways. I suggest we close these now.
- 16:55:05 [WileyS]
- Agreed - these can be closed as the text is already in the proposals
- 16:55:14 [johnsimpson]
- you can close these. we are beyond that
- 16:55:27 [jchester2]
- Agreement we can close these five.
- 16:55:30 [aleecia]
- Issue-99, How does DNT work with Identity providers: I think we're in broad agreement that identity providers are not first parties. Looking to make sure I am correct, and looking for someone to take an action item to write this down.
- 16:56:07 [hwest]
- I'm not sure that was the sense of the group, but I haven't been paying as close attention
- 16:56:11 [aleecia]
- q?
- 16:56:17 [aleecia]
- ack jmayer
- 16:56:23 [npdoty]
- aleecia: I think we have agreement that identity providers aren't first parties, just need to write this down?
- 16:56:28 [WileyS]
- Unless they somehow obtain explicit, informed consent - I believe we all agree they are 3rd party outside of the specific logging transaction
- 16:56:43 [WileyS]
- Agree with what Tom just said.
- 16:56:51 [jchester2]
- Identity providers can be both 1st and 3rd party, suggests Tom.
- 16:58:14 [hwest]
- tl, happy to help/take a look at that.
- 16:58:32 [ifette]
- ACTION: tl to write text for ISSUE-99 around identity providers as first or third parties, DUE May 5 2012
- 16:58:32 [trackbot]
- Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - tl
- 16:58:32 [trackbot]
- Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. tleung2, tlowenth)
- 16:58:34 [jchester2]
- I would also like to help on this.
- 16:58:39 [aleecia]
- Issue-88, different rules for ad impressions and interactions: I do believe we can close this as "yes." Impressions -> 3rd party, interactions -> 1st party.
- 16:58:45 [ifette]
- ACTION: lowenthal to write text for ISSUE-99 around identity providers as first or third parties, DUE May 5 2012
- 16:58:45 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-187 - Write text for ISSUE-99 around identity providers as first or third parties, DUE May 5 2012 [on Thomas Lowenthal - due 2012-04-25].
- 16:58:45 [ifette]
- [09:58am] • trackbot noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
- 16:58:57 [ifette]
- ACTION-187 due May 5 2012
- 16:58:57 [trackbot]
- ACTION-187 Write text for ISSUE-99 around identity providers as first or third parties, DUE May 5 2012 due date now May 5 2012
- 16:59:05 [npdoty]
- action-187: heather and jeff both volunteered to help review
- 16:59:05 [trackbot]
- ACTION-187 Write text for ISSUE-99 around identity providers as first or third parties, DUE May 5 2012 notes added
- 16:59:27 [jchester2]
- Agreement on issue 88. closed
- 16:59:35 [aleecia]
- Issue-69, three proposals for what it means to give consent to be tracked. See http://www.w3.org/TR/tracking-compliance/#consent -- do we have any consensus here?
- 17:00:01 [aleecia]
- The term “affirmative, informed consent” is used throughout this document. While this terminology may ultimately be modified, some options for explaining the underlying idea are presented below:
- 17:00:09 [aleecia]
- 3.9.1 Option 1
- 17:00:09 [aleecia]
- "Affirmative, Informed Consent to be Tracked" means consent given by an affirmative action such as clicking a consent box in response to a clear and prominent request to ignore a "Do Not Track" setting that is distinct and separate from any other notifications or requested permissions.
- 17:00:10 [jchester2]
- 3 proposals slightly different suggestions for what needed for affirmative informed consent.
- 17:00:12 [dsriedel]
- zakim, mute me
- 17:00:12 [Zakim]
- dsriedel should now be muted
- 17:00:17 [aleecia]
- 3.9.2 Option 2
- 17:00:17 [aleecia]
- "Affirmative, Informed Consent to be Tracked" has been obtained when a mechanism to provide for or facilitate the acquisition and storage of permission to ignore the header has been made available to the user and the user has meaningfully interacted with the mechanism in a way that makes clear her intent to grant this permission.
- 17:00:31 [aleecia]
- 3.9.3 Silence
- 17:00:32 [aleecia]
- The hope is that this option will ensure consistency with EU regulations; it may not unless notice is included.
- 17:00:32 [aleecia]
- No definition, other than explicitly leaving the definition of consent to local rules.
- 17:00:36 [ifette]
- not EU regulations but local regulations
- 17:00:37 [WileyS]
- In discussion we're using "explicit, informed consent" and Justin and I have an action to backfill this with non-normative text
- 17:01:00 [ifette]
- I am still suggesting silence as an option
- 17:01:02 [WileyS]
- +1 for Silence
- 17:01:07 [jchester2]
- Aleecia asks does anyone suggestion silence is an option.
- 17:01:17 [hwest]
- +1 silence
- 17:01:46 [npdoty]
- "The term “affirmative, informed consent” is used throughout this document." ... but then it isn't used throughout the document?
- 17:01:58 [schunter]
- q+
- 17:02:17 [tl]
- +q
- 17:02:20 [Zakim]
- -dsriedel
- 17:02:23 [jchester2]
- I don't think we should rely on such proposals as local approach that would allow silence.
- 17:02:26 [npdoty]
- WileyS, agree, if we're just talking about consent for out-of-band override of DNT header, I thought Justin was writing up "explicit, informed consent" with you
- 17:02:27 [aleecia]
- ack schunter
- 17:02:31 [rvaneijk]
- The FTC ahs been very specific on affermative and explicit consent
- 17:02:43 [jchester2]
- +q
- 17:02:57 [WileyS]
- First choice is "silence" on this topic and allow legal frameworks to determine what is valid user consent.
- 17:03:02 [aleecia]
- ack tl
- 17:03:06 [WileyS]
- Second choice is the text I'm working with Justin on
- 17:03:44 [jchester2]
- Tom agrees with Mattias. We should define consent standard for DNT.
- 17:03:56 [aleecia]
- ack jchester
- 17:03:56 [johnsimpson]
- Agree with Matthias and Tom. Need a standard in the spec.
- 17:04:17 [justin]
- Can we park this until WileyS and I have a proposed alternative?
- 17:04:30 [npdoty]
- +1 to justin
- 17:04:32 [rvaneijk]
- FTC uses '“Express affirmative consent'
- 17:05:00 [jchester2]
- There is need for concrete proposals.
- 17:05:19 [WileyS]
- +q
- 17:05:21 [justin]
- We have proposals, but discussions have pushed us in a new (consensus!) direction
- 17:05:28 [aleecia]
- ack WileyS
- 17:05:48 [tl]
- +q
- 17:05:57 [justin]
- No . . .
- 17:06:01 [aleecia]
- ack tl
- 17:06:01 [jchester2]
- Shane suggests another approach--speak to valid user consent. Use global compliance doc to go into detail. Rather than construct new psuedo legal construct.
- 17:06:33 [jchester2]
- Tom: Says we aren't creating a new legal construct that is part of rule system we are constructing.
- 17:06:43 [WileyS]
- But the URI doesn't attempt to set rules on what is a valid representation - the consent discussion does
- 17:06:57 [fielding]
- I suggest that if we define consent, we should also define browser UI
- 17:07:05 [jchester2]
- There is additional work to be done and we will all review.
- 17:07:12 [aleecia]
- Housekeeping changes - again please let me know if I got anything wrong:
- 17:07:13 [aleecia]
- Issue-28 was closed adopting the text from action-58; closed action-58.
- 17:07:21 [tl]
- WileyS: The URI specifies what you can and can't put in it.
- 17:07:42 [aleecia]
- Issue-6 was closed; closed action-101 to revise issue-6.
- 17:07:52 [WileyS]
- Tom: Only very broadly, if the Consent definition is equally "very broad" then we may be okay
- 17:07:56 [aleecia]
- Action-103, Frank Wagner, EU controller v. data processor language: this action is done. We've agreed to move the text to the Global Considerations document. Closed action-103, added an action against me to migrate the text from issue-14 into the (does not exist yet) Global Considerations text.
- 17:08:44 [aleecia]
- Issue-26, providing data to 3rd parties and consent: comments say we closed it and why, yet it remained open. Closed now.
- 17:09:01 [tl]
- WileyS: From where I'm standing, I want something along the lines of an interactive affirmative operation, rather than checking the box that I've read the privacy policy/tos.
- 17:09:24 [schunter]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/products/2
- 17:09:36 [npdoty]
- Topic: TPE Issues
- 17:09:43 [Zakim]
- -justin
- 17:09:48 [WileyS]
- Tom: That may be too detailed as that prescribes a specific UI treatment
- 17:10:11 [jchester2]
- Please check the issue tracker--everything should be up to date.
- 17:10:13 [WileyS]
- Tom: Wait to see our proposed text and see if we can find the consensus line here
- 17:10:42 [tl]
- WileyS: Agreed.
- 17:10:53 [ifette]
- ISSUE-59?
- 17:10:53 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-59 -- Should the first party be informed about whether the user has sent a DNT header to third parties on their site? -- open
- 17:10:53 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/59
- 17:10:59 [aleecia]
- zakim, mute me
- 17:10:59 [Zakim]
- aleecia should now be muted
- 17:11:02 [ifette]
- yes :)
- 17:11:07 [WileyS]
- Yes
- 17:11:12 [tl]
- Resolved by JS API, no?
- 17:11:14 [tl]
- +q
- 17:11:26 [WileyS]
- +q
- 17:11:30 [ifette]
- q+
- 17:11:34 [npdoty]
- q?
- 17:11:38 [jchester2]
- No one has proposed anything in this area. Proposal to close unless people comment.
- 17:11:40 [schunter]
- q?
- 17:11:44 [npdoty]
- ack tl
- 17:11:54 [npdoty]
- tl: I think this is dealt with by the JS API
- 17:11:56 [jchester2]
- Tom: This is dealt with by Javascript API.
- 17:12:13 [npdoty]
- ack WileyS
- 17:12:27 [fielding]
- tl, we would need an example in spec
- 17:12:48 [jchester2]
- Shane says this requires polling on every single user sessions, so they have proposed under Issue-111, would give first party info that is poll worthy occuring.
- 17:12:57 [npdoty]
- in that case, do we need two different issues for this?
- 17:13:14 [schunter]
- q?
- 17:13:17 [npdoty]
- ack ifette
- 17:13:19 [schunter]
- ack ifette
- 17:13:37 [jchester2]
- Ian believes this is connected to issues related to site and web-wide exceptions.
- 17:13:40 [WileyS]
- Site-Specific
- 17:13:54 [WileyS]
- Web-Wide, Site-Wide, and possibly "Site-Specific"
- 17:14:13 [tl]
- +q to say that I can't live with only site wide or web-wide exceptions.
- 17:14:19 [Zakim]
- - +1.866.317.aass
- 17:14:28 [ifette]
- fine
- 17:14:31 [npdoty]
- agree to close 59
- 17:14:34 [tl]
- fine.
- 17:14:37 [jchester2]
- Mattias suggests we continue this discussion on Item-111
- 17:14:40 [tl]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 17:14:40 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see aleecia (muted), rvaneijk, bilcorry (muted), schunter, fielding, NAI_Charlie, 1.202.587.aaee, KevinT, +1.415.520.aagg, WileyS, +1.202.326.aall, robsherman,
- 17:14:43 [Zakim]
- ... Chris_Mejia, vinay, [Mozilla], ifette, hwest, ??P73, justin.a, [Microsoft], +1.202.744.aavv, +1.202.326.aaww, alex, +1.813.366.aayy, johnsimpson, tedleung, vincent (muted),
- 17:14:43 [Zakim]
- ... npdoty (muted), jchester2
- 17:14:43 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] has tl
- 17:14:45 [npdoty]
- we have agreement, for example, that the first party is getting a header
- 17:14:47 [johnsimpson]
- works for me
- 17:14:48 [schunter]
- q?
- 17:14:54 [tl]
- -q
- 17:15:05 [ifette]
- ISSUE-111: subsumes issue 59
- 17:15:05 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-111 Signaling state/existence of site-specific exceptions notes added
- 17:15:10 [tl]
- zakim, disconnect aaee aagg aaw aaww aayy aall
- 17:15:10 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'disconnect aaee aagg aaw aaww aayy aall', tl
- 17:15:17 [tl]
- zakim, disconnect aaee
- 17:15:17 [Zakim]
- sorry, tl, I do not see a party named 'aaee'
- 17:15:23 [npdoty]
- tl, are you chairing this call?
- 17:16:26 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.326.aaww
- 17:16:42 [jchester2]
- Roy says that Item-137 is part of incorporating action involving tl.
- 17:17:00 [npdoty]
- fielding, which action is it that should be attached to issue-137?
- 17:17:09 [aleecia]
- zakim, unmute me
- 17:17:09 [Zakim]
- aleecia should no longer be muted
- 17:17:18 [KevinT1]
- KevinT1 has joined #dnt
- 17:17:25 [npdoty]
- +1 to everyone busy working on the spec :)
- 17:17:29 [fielding]
- 171
- 17:17:33 [ifette]
- ISSUE-138?
- 17:17:33 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-138 -- Web-Wide Exception Well Known URI -- closed
- 17:17:33 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/138
- 17:17:44 [jchester2]
- Issue 138 may be marked as closed, says Alex, can we please review.
- 17:17:50 [WileyS]
- Alex, agreed - this should be at pending review, correct?
- 17:18:09 [Chris]
- how long does this call last? i thought it was 1-hour
- 17:18:14 [jchester2]
- Aleecia says we are be sent Doodle poll for next F2F. By Friday response.
- 17:18:18 [Chris]
- thanks
- 17:18:47 [Chris]
- September is good
- 17:18:54 [WileyS]
- LOL - a bit of a gross overstatement :-)
- 17:19:08 [rvaneijk]
- Also, the EU is going to decide if DNT is going to lead to compliance or not... in JUNE...
- 17:19:18 [alex]
- Yes issue-138 should be pending review
- 17:19:23 [rvaneijk]
- ... and currently it doesn't.
- 17:19:51 [WileyS]
- Perhaps the EU will need to give the working group a few more months rather come up with arbitrary deadlines
- 17:19:56 [jchester2]
- We need last call doc out for review, so we need a final f2f
- 17:20:10 [npdoty]
- +1 to alex, i think issue-138 is distinct
- 17:20:23 [rvaneijk]
- WileyS, the deadline has been there for a year now.
- 17:20:28 [jchester2]
- This is my opinion. We need to meet and deliver to global public a meaningful W3C DNT system. We need to meet soon for f2f.
- 17:20:55 [npdoty]
- s/This is my opinion./jchester2: /
- 17:21:13 [aleecia]
- Personally, I'd also like to get my life back. Perhaps others agree...
- 17:21:14 [WileyS]
- Agreed - but the work may take longer than 1 year. What was so magically about 1 year?
- 17:21:15 [jchester2]
- Thanks.
- 17:21:25 [WileyS]
- Aleecia,
- 17:21:28 [aleecia]
- we're already slipping past that 1 year
- 17:21:35 [Zakim]
- -hwest
- 17:21:36 [tl]
- +q
- 17:21:47 [npdoty]
- schunter: will clean this up, add more text from the email itself, move to pending review
- 17:21:49 [WileyS]
- Aleecia, I'm more concerned with "getting it right" than getting my life back - as if we don't get it right, I'll lose more of my life longer-term
- 17:22:11 [Zakim]
- +hwest
- 17:22:14 [jchester2]
- tl asks whether we have agreed to permit unidentified users on call.
- 17:22:31 [rvaneijk]
- WileyS, The industry now needs, by this June, to develop and deliver a standard that governs the consequences when a user does select not to be tracked, and meets other key features (http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/neelie-kroes/usa-do-not-track/#more-1488)
- 17:22:59 [aleecia]
- q?
- 17:23:05 [aleecia]
- ack tl
- 17:23:06 [tl]
- ack tl
- 17:23:10 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.326.aall
- 17:23:12 [Zakim]
- -vinay
- 17:23:14 [Zakim]
- -justin.a
- 17:23:15 [Zakim]
- - +1.202.744.aavv
- 17:23:16 [WileyS]
- Rob, the difficulty is that this process isn't led by "industry" therefore the delay
- 17:23:17 [jchester2]
- Adjourn.
- 17:23:19 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 17:23:21 [Zakim]
- -1.202.587.aaee
- 17:23:22 [Zakim]
- -[Mozilla]
- 17:23:22 [Zakim]
- - +1.415.520.aagg
- 17:23:23 [Zakim]
- -robsherman
- 17:23:23 [Zakim]
- -aleecia
- 17:23:23 [Zakim]
- -vincent
- 17:23:24 [Zakim]
- -hwest
- 17:23:26 [Zakim]
- -Chris_Mejia
- 17:23:28 [Zakim]
- -tedleung
- 17:23:30 [Zakim]
- -ifette
- 17:23:32 [Zakim]
- -alex
- 17:23:34 [Zakim]
- -fielding
- 17:23:34 [tedleung]
- tedleung has left #dnt
- 17:23:35 [npdoty]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:23:35 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-dnt-minutes.html npdoty
- 17:23:36 [Zakim]
- -NAI_Charlie
- 17:23:38 [Zakim]
- -johnsimpson
- 17:23:39 [ifette]
- Zakim, list participants
- 17:23:41 [Zakim]
- - +1.813.366.aayy
- 17:23:42 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.674.aaaa, aleecia, +31.65.141.aabb, rvaneijk, +1.408.223.aacc, bilcorry, +1.714.852.aadd, fielding, npdoty, +1.202.587.aaee,
- 17:23:46 [Zakim]
- ... +1.415.520.aaff, KevinT, +1.415.520.aagg, +1.727.686.aahh, schunter, +1.202.370.aaii, +1.408.349.aajj, WileyS, +1.727.686.aakk, +1.202.326.aall, +1.301.270.aamm,
- 17:23:48 [johnsimpson]
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- 17:23:48 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.370.aann, +1.510.501.aaoo, +1.917.934.aapp, robsherman, ifette, +1.202.637.aaqq, justin, vinay, +1.917.318.aarr, NAI_Charlie, +1.866.317.aass, Chris_Mejia,
- 17:23:52 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.346.aatt, [Microsoft], +1.202.684.aauu, +1.202.744.aavv, hwest, Chapell, +1.202.326.aaww, +1.813.366.aaxx, +1.813.366.aayy, tl, +1.310.392.aazz, alex, 1.202.587.aaee,
- 17:23:56 [Zakim]
- ... +1.206.369.bbaa, +49.721.913.74.bbbb, dsriedel, tedleung, johnsimpson, +1.202.684.bbcc, jmayer, vincent, +1.301.270.bbdd, jchester2
- 17:23:57 [Zakim]
- -schunter
- 17:24:01 [Zakim]
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- 17:24:03 [Zakim]
- -bilcorry
- 17:24:04 [Zakim]
- -rvaneijk
- 17:24:13 [ifette]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:24:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/18-dnt-minutes.html ifette
- 17:24:35 [ifette]
- (for whatever reason, rrsagent seems to get a more complete list if you do list participants first, no idea why...)
- 17:24:48 [npdoty]
- ifette, that's the Zakim bug I was referring to earlier
- 17:24:56 [robsherman]
- robsherman has joined #dnt
- 17:25:01 [npdoty]
- or at least related to that bug
- 17:25:16 [robsherman]
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- 17:25:22 [Zakim]
- -??P73
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- -npdoty
- 17:28:41 [Zakim]
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- 17:35:00 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, WileyS, in T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM
- 17:35:01 [Zakim]
- T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has ended
- 17:35:01 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.408.674.aaaa, aleecia, +31.65.141.aabb, rvaneijk, +1.408.223.aacc, bilcorry, +1.714.852.aadd, fielding, npdoty, +1.202.587.aaee, +1.415.520.aaff, KevinT,
- 17:35:01 [Zakim]
- ... +1.415.520.aagg, +1.727.686.aahh, schunter, +1.202.370.aaii, +1.408.349.aajj, WileyS, +1.727.686.aakk, +1.202.326.aall, +1.301.270.aamm, +1.202.370.aann, +1.510.501.aaoo,
- 17:35:03 [Zakim]
- ... +1.917.934.aapp, robsherman, ifette, +1.202.637.aaqq, justin, vinay, +1.917.318.aarr, NAI_Charlie, +1.866.317.aass, Chris_Mejia, +1.202.346.aatt, [Microsoft], +1.202.684.aauu,
- 17:35:06 [Zakim]
- ... +1.202.744.aavv, hwest, Chapell, +1.202.326.aaww, +1.813.366.aaxx, +1.813.366.aayy, tl, +1.310.392.aazz, alex, 1.202.587.aaee, +1.206.369.bbaa, +49.721.913.74.bbbb, dsriedel,
- 17:35:09 [Zakim]
- ... tedleung, johnsimpson, +1.202.684.bbcc, jmayer, vincent, +1.301.270.bbdd, jchester2
- 17:36:08 [KevinT1]
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