14:39:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:39:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-forms-irc
14:39:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:39:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:39:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:39:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:39:25 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2012
14:47:50 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #forms
14:47:58 <Steven_> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Apr/0003
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14:59:30 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
14:59:38 <Zakim> + +44.782.483.aaaa
15:03:02 <Zakim> +??P11
15:03:13 <Steven_> zakim, ??P11 is me
15:03:14 <Zakim> +Steven_; got it
15:03:27 <Steven_> zakim, Steven_ is Steven
15:03:27 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
15:07:29 <nvdbleek1> zakim, code?
15:07:29 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek1
15:08:00 <Zakim> + +1.323.425.aabb
15:08:29 <nvdbleek1> zakim, I +1
15:08:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I +1', nvdbleek1
15:08:39 <nvdbleek1> zakim, I am +1
15:08:39 <Zakim> +nvdbleek1; got it
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15:10:27 <Zakim> + +1.650.919.aacc
15:10:39 <ebruchez> zakim, +1.650.919.aacc is ebruchez
15:10:39 <Zakim> +ebruchez; got it
15:14:14 <Steven_> Scribe: Steven
15:14:22 <Steven_> Topic: Editorial meeting
15:14:51 <Steven_> Steven: Nick, you and I should get together; maybe on a Weds/Thurs, and then use the FOrms call for discussion
15:14:59 <Steven_> Eric: Nevt week?
15:15:12 <Steven_> Nick: A bit early; do you think we should have a longer call?
15:15:17 <Steven_> Erik: Sure
15:15:21 <Steven_> s/Eric/Erik/
15:16:13 <Steven_> Steven: So the action is for Nick and I to settle on a date, and then the group know so that we can extend the call.
15:16:31 <ebruchez> s/Nevt/Next
15:18:37 <Steven_> Topic: Community group
15:18:49 <Steven_> Steven: Maybe Leigh is a good candidate
15:18:57 <Steven_> Nick: Yes, though it has to go to a vote
15:19:08 <Steven_> Steven: I'll ask him if he's interested
15:19:20 <Steven_> Erik: He mentioned he was interested
15:20:30 <Steven_> Nick: There are facilities in CGs to set up polls
15:20:35 <Steven_> Steven: I'll check
15:20:56 <Steven_> Steven: I moved the implementation list to the CG http://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_Implementations
15:21:21 <Steven_> Steven: Please keep your entries up-to-date
15:21:34 <Steven_> Nick: Poll page is https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wp-admin/admin.php?page=wp-polls/polls-manager.php
15:22:12 <Steven_> Topic: Public WD
15:22:51 <Steven_> ACTION: Nick to update WD according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Apr/0002.html
15:22:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1884 - Update WD according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2012Apr/0002.html [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2012-04-11].
15:26:14 <Steven_> [Discussing the element function comment in the above mail]
15:26:52 <Steven_> [Whether it should be the same as XSLT, because it looks similar, or just explain the difference]
15:27:28 <Steven_> [Erik, and Philip don't feel strongly about it]
15:29:43 <Steven_> Chair: Steven
15:29:49 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:29:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-forms-minutes.html Steven_
15:30:34 <Steven_> s/FOrms/Forms/
15:31:34 <nvdbleek1> https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Group/Drafts/WD-xforms-xpath-20120504/#The_element.28.29_Function
15:32:15 <Steven_> Erik: The current text isn't ambiguous
15:32:26 <Steven_> ... unless we want to put a restriction
15:32:39 <Steven_> Nick: It mentions attributes and content
15:33:05 <Steven_> Erik: An implementor can trivially do the right thing
15:33:57 <Steven_> ... if there is a risk that an implementor may not do it right, we should add text (about attributes coming after content)
15:34:08 <Steven_> Nick: I can add an extra example
15:34:14 <Steven_> Philip: I agree with that
15:34:46 <Steven_> ACTION: Nick to add an extra example to https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Group/Drafts/WD-xforms-xpath-20120504/#The_element.28.29_Function to show that attributes may come after element content
15:34:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1885 - Add an extra example to https://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/Group/Drafts/WD-xforms-xpath-20120504/#The_element.28.29_Function to show that attributes may come after element content [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2012-04-11].
15:36:39 <nvdbleek1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2012Apr/0000.html
15:37:05 <Steven_> Topic: SVG and XForms
15:37:15 <nvdbleek1> <xf:repeat ref="1 to 5">
15:37:35 <Steven_> Erik: About repeat over values
15:38:09 <nvdbleek1> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2012Apr/0008.html
15:39:24 <Steven_> Nick: Only on bind and submission do we restrict what @ref may contain
15:39:59 <Steven_> Erik: Clearly an XPath expression can return a seq of nodes, we need to be explicit what should happen
15:40:14 <Steven_> ... it is not obvious from the spec that it is allowed
15:40:21 <Steven_> ... we should say something
15:40:58 <Steven_> Nick: I don't recall if we had a resolution on this
15:41:35 <Steven_> ... but if a control binds to a node that is not part of an instance data, it becomes read-only
15:42:09 <Steven_> Erik: If it's a node, you can write to it, why not? Why make it read-only?
15:42:38 <Steven_> Nick: Too surprising for the user, on a refresh, the changed values would be replaced with something else
15:42:52 <Steven_> Erik: Maybe it's the right thing to do
15:43:14 <Steven_> ... but it would be silly for a form author to do that in the first place
15:44:42 <Steven_> Erik: transform() could be said to return read-only results. Not sure if it's needed for element() or attribute()
15:45:34 <Steven_> ... if you can't use bind on it, there would be no MIPs on it
15:46:33 <Steven_> Nick: You could have a simple checking implementation
15:46:44 <Steven_> ... not hard to implement
15:46:53 <Steven_> Erik: I'd have to think about it
15:47:04 <Steven_> ... but I understand the rationale
15:49:18 <Steven_> s/SVG and XForms/Repeat over values/
15:49:25 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:49:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-forms-minutes.html Steven_
15:51:02 <Steven_> Erik: You could create an element, store it in a variable. It is not in an instance, but it should be mutable
15:51:35 <Steven_> ... therefore it shouldn't be read-only
15:52:13 <Steven_> ... unless we decide that copying into a variable makes them mutable
15:52:42 <Steven_> Erik: XPath doesn't have mutability
15:53:48 <Steven_> Steven: I don't hear consensus
15:53:54 <Steven_> Nick:I'm not sure anyway
15:56:07 <Steven_> Erik: I can send out an email summarising the two sides, and we can take it from there.
15:56:17 <Steven_> Nick: Which list?
15:56:32 <Steven_> Erik: Both, the CG and the WG
15:57:04 <Steven_> [ADJOURN]
15:57:05 <Zakim> - +44.782.483.aaaa
15:57:07 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:57:09 <Zakim> -nvdbleek1
15:57:14 <Zakim> -Steven
15:57:14 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:57:15 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.782.483.aaaa, Steven, +1.323.425.aabb, nvdbleek1, ebruchez
15:57:16 <Steven_> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/04-forms-minutes.html Steven_
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