13:57:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:57:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-sparql-irc
13:57:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:57:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
13:57:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:14 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:57:14 <trackbot> Date: 03 April 2012
13:57:21 <LeeF> zakim, this will be sparql
13:57:21 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:33 <cbuilara> cbuilara has joined #sparql
13:57:44 <SteveH_> SteveH_ has joined #sparql
13:57:44 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-27#resolution_2
13:58:06 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:58:13 <Zakim> +LeeF
13:58:25 <Zakim> +pgearon
13:58:31 <MacTed> MacTed has joined #sparql
13:58:45 <Zakim> +kasei
13:59:06 <Zakim> +??P15
13:59:08 <Zakim> +Olivier_
13:59:10 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P15 is me
13:59:10 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
13:59:26 <bglimm> bglimm has joined #sparql
13:59:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:59:48 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
13:59:48 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:00:02 <Zakim> +??P19
14:00:09 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sparql
14:00:13 <bglimm> Zakim, ??P19 is me
14:00:13 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
14:00:22 <Zakim> + +1.213.457.aaaa
14:00:32 <cbuilara> zakim, aaa is me
14:00:32 <Zakim> sorry, cbuilara, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:00:39 <cbuilara> zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:39 <Zakim> +cbuilara; got it
14:01:02 <cbuilara> I can do it
14:01:06 <Zakim> +MattPerry
14:01:09 <LeeF> scribenick: cbuilara
14:01:31 <LeeF> regrets: Axel, Chime
14:01:46 <LeeF> topic: admin
14:01:54 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-27
14:02:46 <cbuilara> LeeF: the csv/tsv we have to work with Sandro about it so we can publish it
14:02:55 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2012-03-27
14:03:01 <cbuilara> LeeF: any concertns with last week minutes?
14:03:11 <cbuilara> LeeF: April 10th, any regrets?
14:03:17 <LeeF> (none)
14:03:19 <pgearon> at risk here
14:03:26 <LeeF> topic: Overview
14:04:10 <cbuilara> LeeF: status, need one more review from LeeF, I still have to do it, anybody would be unconfortable to publish document as conditional LC?
14:04:27 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Publish Overview document as Last Call, conditional on review & changes in wake of review from LeeF
14:04:53 <AndyS> abstain
14:05:10 <kasei> +1
14:05:12 <cbuilara> LeeF: anybody wants to second?
14:05:24 <pgearon> +1
14:05:25 <cbuilara> +1
14:05:27 <bglimm> +1
14:05:30 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Publish Overview document as Last Call, conditional on review & changes in wake of review from LeeF, AndyS abstaining
14:05:37 <LeeF> topic: Property paths
14:05:56 <LeeF> Axel's summary of property path options: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0000.html
14:05:56 <cbuilara> LeeF: Axel's summary
14:06:27 <LeeF> Axel's summary of path forward for property paths: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012AprJun/0001.html
14:07:08 <cbuilara> LeeF: the basic impression is that we have one consensus, try to generate a response to all 3 commenters and move forward
14:10:03 <kasei> q+ to ask about option 8 wording
14:10:14 <cbuilara> LeeF: summary of remaining options: option 3 was the most supported option last option, solved problems with one commenter, option 6 is the newest and scales back, pp can be viewd as syntactic shortcut, it has support in the mailinglist, will be discussed, option 7 adding distict and all keywords for wrapping, option 8 leave semantics unspecified 
14:11:00 <LeeF> ack kasei
14:11:00 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask about option 8 wording
14:11:22 <LeeF> Andy's option 6 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0285.html
14:11:26 <cbuilara> LeeF: option 6 by Andy
14:11:31 <LeeF> Andy's option 6 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0286.html
14:11:47 <LeeF> 6.A:   /, |, ! as there are in 2LC.
14:11:48 <LeeF> 6.B:   *, +, ? are non-counting
14:11:48 <LeeF> 6.C:   No DISTINCT
14:11:48 <LeeF> 6.D:   No {} forms: {n}, {n,m}, {n,}, {,m}
14:13:10 <cbuilara> LeeF: it does not cover all the possible use cases 
14:13:41 <cbuilara> LeeF: it seems that covers most common cases
14:13:56 <cbuilara> LeeF: it cuts complexity that was getting PP
14:14:13 <bglimm> q+
14:14:17 <LeeF> ack bglimm
14:14:18 <cbuilara> LeeF: questions?
14:14:31 <cbuilara> bglimm: did you check with commenters? 
14:14:48 <cbuilara> LeeF: we did, if we agree we will submit the answer
14:15:08 <cbuilara> bglimm: we make the most complex operators non counting
14:15:38 <Zakim> +EricP
14:15:57 <kasei> I think 6 is the best path forward.
14:16:01 <cbuilara> LeeF: support or comments for option 6?
14:16:09 <MattPerry> +1 for option 6, others were getting too complicated
14:16:11 <LeeF> zakim, who's here?
14:16:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see LeeF, pgearon, kasei, SteveH, Olivier_, AndyS, bglimm, cbuilara, MattPerry, EricP
14:16:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see MattPerry, bglimm, MacTed, SteveH, cbuilara, Zakim, RRSAgent, Olivier, AndyS, LeeF, pgearon, NickH, trackbot, kasei, ya, ericP, sandro
14:16:18 <bglimm> +1
14:16:21 <cbuilara> +1 for option 6
14:16:22 <AndyS> +1 to option 6.
14:16:25 <SteveH> +1
14:16:33 <pgearon> +1
14:17:29 <cbuilara> LeeF: lets go with option 6, I will make the response based on AndyS summary
14:18:18 <cbuilara> AndyS: I think question mark operator, I have not seen much of it
14:19:49 <cbuilara> AndyS: leaving it is the better chice
14:19:56 <cbuilara> s/chice/choice
14:19:59 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Adopt option 6 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0285.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0286.html
14:20:38 <cbuilara> LeeF: we go ahead and adopt option 6
14:20:44 <kasei> +1
14:20:45 <MattPerry> +1
14:20:48 <cbuilara> +1
14:20:52 <Olivier> +1
14:20:58 <ericP> +0 # too ignorant to vote
14:20:59 <pgearon> +1
14:21:07 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Adopt option 6 as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0285.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0286.html, EricP abstaining
14:21:47 <cbuilara> LeeF: amount of work perspective about the option 6?
14:22:12 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to contact the 3 property path commenters to see if option 6 addresses their concerns with property paths
14:22:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-605 - Contact the 3 property path commenters to see if option 6 addresses their concerns with property paths [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2012-04-10].
14:22:23 <cbuilara> AndyS: I will start working on it, but I can't work properly until next week
14:23:09 <cbuilara> LeeF: any topic for discussion?
14:23:33 <cbuilara> LeeF: AndyS, what about the comments from the RDF WG?
14:23:43 <pgearon> +q
14:23:50 <ericP> q+
14:23:51 <pgearon> q-
14:23:52 <cbuilara> AndyS: there is an email
14:24:00 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:24:06 <LeeF> topic: colons
14:24:07 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2012JanMar/0284.html
14:24:51 <ericP> {a:b:c:d}
14:25:00 <ericP> { a:b :c :d }
14:25:16 <cbuilara> ericP: this is how it parses now
14:25:31 <cbuilara> ericP: there is a backwards incompatibility
14:26:11 <cbuilara> LeeF: do we do this change too? or it works for the wg?
14:26:18 <pgearon> +q
14:26:22 <LeeF> ack pgearon
14:26:24 <LeeF> ack ericP
14:26:24 <ericP> q-
14:26:52 <cbuilara> pgearon: it is a good idea, but does it changes the grammar very much?
14:28:05 <kasei> people have already suggested / and how property paths will end up preventing that...
14:28:39 <cbuilara> SteveH; I can't think of a big issue
14:29:02 <pgearon> so long as it doesn't break anything existing, then I'm all for these changes
14:29:27 <ericP> q+ to also discuss http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#term-turtle2-BLANK_NODE_LABEL
14:30:04 <ericP> PROPOSE: bare ':'s are allowed in local names (\'d ':'s not allowed)
14:30:14 <ericP> PROPOSED: bare ':'s are allowed in local names (\'d ':'s not allowed)
14:30:23 <LeeF> +1
14:30:25 <ericP> +1
14:30:35 <pgearon> +1
14:30:36 <kasei> 0
14:30:37 <cbuilara> 0
14:30:40 <MattPerry> +1
14:30:47 <bglimm> 0 not much clue about this...
14:30:51 <Olivier> 0
14:30:55 <LeeF> RESOLVED: bare ':'s are allowed in local names (\'d ':'s not allowed), Greg and Carlos and Birte and Olivier abstaining
14:31:49 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to update grammar to allow colons in local names
14:31:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-606 - Update grammar to allow colons in local names [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-10].
14:32:27 <LeeF> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#term-turtle2-BLANK_NODE_LABEL
14:33:08 <cbuilara> ericP: if we allow scaping in local names, p and local, it allows the scape medical characters
14:34:19 <ericP> _:\:foo
14:34:19 <cbuilara> ericP: the blank node labels in triple are the same than blank nodes lables in turtle
14:34:48 <cbuilara> ericP: no more labels like that _:\:foo
14:34:57 <LeeF> LeeF: Does anybody care?
14:35:02 <LeeF> (silence)
14:35:05 <ericP> +1
14:35:35 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
14:35:36 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
14:36:01 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Change SPARQL blank node production to be in sync with the Turtle production (e.g. exclude escapes and encodings)
14:36:27 <ericP> +1
14:36:35 <bglimm> +1
14:36:41 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Change SPARQL blank node production to be in sync with the Turtle production (e.g. exclude escapes and encodings)
14:37:03 <LeeF> ACTION: Andy to update SPARQL grammar for blank node label to match http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#term-turtle2-BLANK_NODE_LABEL
14:37:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-607 - Update SPARQL grammar for blank node label to match http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#term-turtle2-BLANK_NODE_LABEL [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-04-10].
14:37:31 <LeeF> Adjourned.
14:37:33 <cbuilara> LeeF: anyother business=
14:37:41 <Zakim> -LeeF
14:37:44 <bglimm> bye
14:37:45 <Zakim> -EricP
14:37:46 <Zakim> -SteveH
14:37:46 <Zakim> -MattPerry
14:37:47 <MattPerry> bye
14:37:47 <Zakim> -Olivier_
14:37:47 <Zakim> -bglimm
14:37:49 <Zakim> -kasei
14:37:52 <Zakim> -pgearon
14:38:21 <Zakim> -cbuilara
14:38:22 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
14:38:22 <Zakim> Attendees were LeeF, pgearon, kasei, Olivier_, SteveH, AndyS, bglimm, +1.213.457.aaaa, cbuilara, MattPerry, EricP
14:52:14 <AndyS> Re: action 607 - that's what it already says!
14:53:06 <AndyS> The Turtle one was copied from SPARQL.  The RDF-WG explicitly decided  not chnage it , so I didn't in SPARQL.
14:53:07 <AndyS> [134]  BLANK_NODE_LABEL  ::=  '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ((PN_CHARS|'.')* PN_CHARS)?
14:53:27 <AndyS> is SPARQL and
14:53:37 <AndyS> [134t]    <BLANK_NODE_LABEL>    ::=    '_:' ( PN_CHARS_U | [0-9] ) ( ( PN_CHARS | '.' )* PN_CHARS )? is Turtle.
14:53:59 <AndyS> (ericP)
15:04:52 <ericP> interesting, i don't understand the history of why i ended up changing BLANK_NODE_LABEL to the production you've pasted, but it looks like this is resolved
15:19:46 <LeeF> close ACTION-607
15:19:46 <trackbot> ACTION-607 Update SPARQL grammar for blank node label to match http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/index.html#term-turtle2-BLANK_NODE_LABEL closed
15:19:51 <LeeF> ACTION-605?
15:19:51 <trackbot> ACTION-605 -- Lee Feigenbaum to contact the 3 property path commenters to see if option 6 addresses their concerns with property paths -- due 2012-04-10 -- OPEN
15:19:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/605
15:19:54 <LeeF> close ACTION-605
15:19:54 <trackbot> ACTION-605 Contact the 3 property path commenters to see if option 6 addresses their concerns with property paths closed
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