15:49:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
15:49:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-irc
15:49:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:58 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
15:50:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
15:50:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
15:50:01 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:50:01 <trackbot> Date: 03 April 2012
15:53:40 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
15:54:07 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
15:56:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:56:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:56:27 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:56:28 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:57:23 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:57:23 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:57:24 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
15:57:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan
15:57:35 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:57:35 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:57:36 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
15:57:37 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:58:51 <Zakim> +??P18
15:58:57 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:58:57 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:58:59 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:59:07 <boris> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:59:07 <Zakim> +boris; got it
15:59:10 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:59:10 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:59:12 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:23 <ivan> zakim, drop me
15:59:23 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:59:24 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:00:28 <Zakim> +juansequeda
16:01:37 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
16:01:44 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
16:01:44 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:01:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
16:01:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
16:02:09 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:02:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see boris, juansequeda, MacTed (muted)
16:02:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see juansequeda, boris, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, betehess, trackbot, ericP
16:02:29 <ivan> zakim, code?
16:02:29 <Zakim> the conference code is 7322733 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
16:02:31 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
16:02:53 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Apr/0001.html
16:03:06 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
16:03:29 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf
16:03:34 <mhausenblas> scribenick: nunolopes 
16:03:47 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 
16:03:47 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
16:03:53 <mhausenblas> present+ Boris
16:04:04 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
16:04:04 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
16:04:09 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
16:04:14 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
16:04:19 <mhausenblas> present+ Nuno
16:04:35 <mhausenblas> present+ Richard
16:04:47 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft the minutes please
16:04:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:04:54 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make the logs public
16:04:54 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make the logs public', mhausenblas.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:05:00 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:05:04 <Zakim> +Seema
16:05:11 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
16:05:13 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:05:13 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:05:15 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:05:31 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
16:06:00 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
16:06:06 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
16:06:20 <boris> +1
16:06:26 <nunolopes> RESOLUTION: Accepted the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/03/13-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
16:06:38 <nunolopes> Topic: Implementations
16:06:38 <mhausenblas> Topic: Implementation report/EARL 
16:06:58 <nunolopes> Topic: Implementations report/EARL
16:07:13 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: Any news on implementations?
16:07:16 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Souri
16:07:24 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
16:07:35 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Dave
16:07:37 <nunolopes> juansequeda: we'll have ultrawrap by the end of the month
16:07:42 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
16:07:42 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
16:07:44 <nunolopes> … doing final checks
16:08:11 <nunolopes> cygri: D2RQ has a preliminary implementation of the DM, nothing for R2RML
16:08:27 <nunolopes> … we haven't run the test-suite but we should be complete except for 2 issues
16:08:28 <Zakim> +EricP
16:08:41 <nunolopes> … we can talk about that once we run the tests
16:08:42 <Zakim> -EricP
16:08:47 <Zakim> +EricP
16:08:52 <Zakim> -EricP
16:09:10 <nunolopes> … we hope to make a preview release of this
16:09:17 <nunolopes> … and R2RMl should be next on the list
16:09:24 <Zakim> +EricP
16:09:28 <nunolopes> … in 6 weeks time
16:09:32 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
16:09:42 <nunolopes> ivan: it will not be done before the end of CR
16:09:47 <nunolopes> cygri: no ..
16:10:57 <nunolopes> nunolopes: report on XSPARQL
16:11:11 <ericP> q+ to say that SWObjects has a dm-materialize which passes the DM tests in MySQL and Postgres -- futzing around with Oracle and SQL Server
16:11:21 <nunolopes> cygri: the binary test case might be an issue
16:11:28 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
16:11:28 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that SWObjects has a dm-materialize which passes the DM tests in MySQL and Postgres -- futzing around with Oracle and SQL Server
16:11:32 <mhausenblas> q?
16:11:59 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
16:11:59 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:12:02 <nunolopes> ericP: I have an implementation that passes the tests with mysql and psql and trying oracle and ms server
16:12:22 <nunolopes> juansequeda: I'm trying over oracle, sql server and db2
16:13:41 <nunolopes> ericP: the test harness I'm using actually creates the database, maybe this will be useful for the group
16:13:53 <nunolopes> … if people are interested
16:14:18 <nunolopes> cygri: for us, we haven't looked at test harness software
16:14:34 <nunolopes> … we'll next look at what people did and more options to pick better
16:14:45 <nunolopes> … the easier to run the beter
16:14:51 <nunolopes> s/beter/better/
16:15:11 <nunolopes> ericP: there are also the native libraries
16:15:18 <mhausenblas> q?
16:15:19 <nunolopes> cygri: and JDBC drivers
16:16:01 <nunolopes> ericP: in case we have circular dependency on foreign keys, it's a pain to add in the sql script and to delete the tables
16:16:20 <nunolopes> … in my tests I don't tell the database there isn't a foreign key
16:16:41 <mhausenblas> q?
16:16:47 <nunolopes> … only when it is materialised
16:17:06 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:17:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:17:11 <nunolopes> ivan: we do have 3 implementations of DM 
16:17:27 <nunolopes> … essentially complete by the end of CR, which is fine
16:17:37 <nunolopes> … what about R2RML
16:17:58 <nunolopes> juansequeda: ultrawrap does an implementation
16:18:19 <nunolopes> nunolopes: I have one but you might be interested in more production ready ones
16:18:39 <nunolopes> ivan: I was hoping for oracle and/or revelytix
16:18:57 <Seema> we can't say anything for now
16:19:06 <nunolopes> … if we don't have that done by end of april we can't exit CR
16:19:18 <nunolopes> Seema: we can't say anything yet
16:20:48 <nunolopes> MacTed: any news on open link?
16:20:57 <nunolopes> s/open link/openlink/
16:21:12 <nunolopes> MacTed: not at the moment
16:22:39 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: next telecon will probably be april 24th and that will be the cut-off date
16:22:47 <mhausenblas> q?
16:22:52 <nunolopes> juansequeda: do the implementations need to pass all the test cases?
16:23:14 <nunolopes> ivan: every test (or feature at least) needs to be passed by at least 2 implementations
16:23:26 <boris> yes
16:24:04 <nunolopes> cygri: we don't have anyone from revelytix on the call but the literature says they cover R2RML
16:24:12 <nunolopes> … there might be hope from that side
16:24:42 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to ping Revelytix re R2RML implementation status
16:24:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-203 - Ping Revelytix re R2RML implementation status [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2012-04-10].
16:25:04 <nunolopes> cygri: what happens at the end of the month?
16:25:17 <nunolopes> ivan: if everything is as planned we need an implementation report
16:25:32 <nunolopes> … check if the tests reveled any major issues in the spec
16:25:47 <nunolopes> … if not we can start a proposed recommendation phase
16:26:35 <nunolopes> cygri: assuming some feature doens't have 2 implementations, what happens?
16:26:55 <nunolopes> ivan: we can wait for implementations or remove it from the document and go back into last call phase
16:28:15 <nunolopes> ivan: even if D2R doesn't have an implementation might be important to document what you have
16:28:35 <nunolopes> cygri: in the implementation of the DM we've identified some issues, 
16:28:57 <nunolopes> … which should be fixed if we had no time dependencies
16:29:18 <nunolopes> … since we are not in working draft maybe we can implement it anyway
16:29:53 <nunolopes> … what's the protocol to deal with this at this point?
16:30:05 <nunolopes> ivan: it's difficult to say in abstract terms
16:30:27 <nunolopes> … RDFa 1.1 is in the same phase and the implementations revealed inconsistencies in the spec text
16:31:30 <nunolopes> … what you say is to change the core spec, which would mean to go back to design phase
16:31:48 <nunolopes> … if is something that is not perfect we can come back to it for a new version
16:32:04 <nunolopes> … but would prefer to not go into another technical discussion at this stage
16:32:14 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: we can mark it for future work
16:32:44 <nunolopes> cygri: there is a difference between new features and issues that affect implementability
16:33:01 <nunolopes> … might be so hard that we can say we don't do it
16:33:14 <nunolopes> … for example, the handling of binary types
16:33:42 <nunolopes> … when implementing, we think it should say xsd:hexbinary 
16:33:52 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: that's the kind of thing we should fix
16:34:06 <nunolopes> cygri: that would be the new technical discussion ivan mentions no?
16:34:59 <nunolopes> ivan: maybe, is the experience shared with the other implementors?
16:35:15 <nunolopes> … would any change there change the results and implementations of the others?
16:35:36 <nunolopes> … at first glance it doesn't seem like a big change
16:36:04 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: since it's not a new feature it makes sense to discuss it based on implementations
16:36:17 <nunolopes> … and find out what were the issues
16:36:33 <nunolopes> … implementation dependent or related to the spec
16:37:03 <nunolopes> … only if two implementors have different opinions we need to discuss it
16:37:34 <nunolopes> cygri: the base64binary might be more useful, but of marginal interest
16:37:47 <nunolopes> … more of a corner case that should be easy to implement
16:38:07 <nunolopes> … and not have implementors waste too much time on it
16:38:21 <nunolopes> ivan: let's hear from the other implementors
16:38:43 <nunolopes> cygri: to make it clear dumping the database is not a problem
16:38:56 <nunolopes> … sparqling the results might be a problem
16:39:26 <mhausenblas> q?
16:39:44 <nunolopes> ericP: when I implemented this I simply used an off-the-shelf algorithm
16:39:54 <nunolopes> …. because I'm only materialising it's easy
16:41:26 <nunolopes> cygri: the problem is if you want to push the join to the database
16:41:50 <nunolopes> … the conversion between the types is much simpler for hexBnary than base64
16:42:39 <nunolopes> cygri: I can document this via email
16:42:59 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: maybe it's worth to document it on the wiki as well
16:43:59 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to create a new Wiki page for gathering implementation experiences
16:43:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-204 - Create a new Wiki page for gathering implementation experiences [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2012-04-10].
16:44:23 <nunolopes> Topic: TC and Test Harness
16:44:52 <nunolopes> boris: I created some java code to compare the official results from results from an implementation
16:45:03 <nunolopes> … and generates an EARL file
16:45:09 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:45:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:45:09 <boris> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Test_Results
16:45:13 <nunolopes> … describing which test cases are passed
16:45:33 <nunolopes> … I've updated the webpage 
16:46:04 <boris> http://mccarthy.dia.fi.upm.es/rdb2rdf/tc/th/earl.ttl
16:46:11 <nunolopes> … implementors just need to provide the tool name and some config and run the script
16:46:33 <nunolopes> … need to do the same for R2RMl
16:47:10 <nunolopes> ivan: once all the earl files are available we need to process the files and generate the report
16:47:19 <nunolopes> boris: yes, it's in my todo list
16:48:11 <nunolopes> mhausenblas: thanks, boris, great work!
16:48:31 <nunolopes> boris: thanks for everyone who check the testcases
16:49:05 <boris> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/#D016-1table1primarykey10columns3rowsSQLdatatypes
16:50:28 <nunolopes> cygri: is the source for the TH available?
16:50:36 <boris> https://github.com/boricles/rdb2rdf-th
16:50:36 <nunolopes> boris: yes, it will be in github
16:51:29 <joerg> joerg has joined #RDB2RDF
16:51:42 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:51:43 <Zakim> -Seema
16:51:45 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
16:51:57 <Zakim> -boris
16:52:10 <joerg> uh
16:52:11 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
16:52:13 <joerg> thats bad
16:52:19 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:52:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:52:34 <mhausenblas> Next meeting is scheduled for 24 April due to WWW2012
16:52:38 <joerg> ok
16:52:41 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
16:52:41 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:52:41 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Ivan, boris, juansequeda, MacTed, mhausenblas, nunolopes, Seema, cygri, EricP
16:52:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:52:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-minutes.html trackbot
16:52:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:52:50 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-actions.rdf :
16:52:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to ping Revelytix re R2RML implementation status [1]
16:52:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-irc#T16-24-42
16:52:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to create a new Wiki page for gathering implementation experiences [2]
16:52:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/04/03-RDB2RDF-irc#T16-43-59