IRC log of rdf-wg on 2012-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:12 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:12 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/21-rdf-wg-irc
15:01:13 [Guus]: Guus has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:14 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:01:14 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:16 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 73394
15:01:16 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
15:01:17 [trackbot]: Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:01:17 [trackbot]: Date: 21 March 2012
15:01:26 [cgreer]: cgreer has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:34 [gavinc]: Zakim, this is 73394
15:01:36 [Zakim]: ok, gavinc; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
15:01:49 [davidwood]: Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:52 [Zakim]: +Guus_Schreiber
15:01:55 [SteveH]: SteveH has joined #rdf-wg
15:01:56 [Zakim]: On the phone I see gavinc, bhyland, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber
15:02:03 [davidwood]: Zakim, bhyland is me
15:02:08 [Zakim]: +EricP
15:02:14 [Zakim]: +davidwood; got it
15:02:20 [AndyS1]: AndyS1 has joined #rdf-wg
15:02:27 [Zakim]: +cgreer
15:02:42 [Zakim]: +??P25
15:02:46 [Guus]: zakim, who is here?
15:02:48 [ivan]: zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:02:48 [Zakim]: On the phone I see gavinc, davidwood, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, cgreer, ??P25
15:02:49 [AndyS1]: zakim, ??P25 is me
15:02:56 [Zakim]: ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:02:57 [Zakim]: +AndyS1; got it
15:02:59 [Zakim]: +Ivan
15:03:02 [Zakim]: On IRC I see AndyS1, SteveH, cgreer, Zakim, Guus, RRSAgent, Souri, Arnaud, gavinc, mischat, pfps, MacTed, LeeF, AndyS, ivan, mdmdm, yvesr, manu1, davidwood, NickH, trackbot, manu,
15:03:05 [AlexHall]: AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:06 [Zakim]: ... sandro, ericP
15:03:13 [Zakim]: + +1.443.212.aabb
15:03:17 [AlexHall]: zakim, aabb is me
15:03:18 [Zakim]: +AlexHall; got it
15:03:24 [zwu2]: zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg
15:03:26 [Zakim]: +OpenLink_Software
15:03:32 [MacTed]: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:32 [Zakim]: +MacTed; got it
15:03:33 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
15:03:34 [zwu2]: zakim, code?
15:03:36 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
15:03:37 [Guus]: zakim, who is here?
15:03:38 [Zakim]: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
15:03:59 [Zakim]: On the phone I see gavinc, davidwood, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, cgreer, AndyS1, Ivan, AlexHall, MacTed (muted)
15:04:17 [gavinc]: http://www.random.org/coins/
15:04:19 [Zakim]: On IRC I see zwu2, AlexHall, AndyS1, SteveH, cgreer, Zakim, Guus, RRSAgent, Souri, Arnaud, gavinc, mischat, pfps, MacTed, LeeF, AndyS, ivan, mdmdm, yvesr, manu1, davidwood, NickH,
15:04:24 [Zakim]: ... trackbot, manu, sandro, ericP
15:04:34 [Zakim]: +zwu2
15:04:50 [Guus]: any volunteer for scribing?
15:05:26 [Zakim]: +??P36
15:05:26 [Zakim]: +LeeF
15:05:33 [SteveH]: Zakim, ??P36 is me
15:05:33 [Zakim]: +SteveH; got it
15:05:52 [ericP]: You flipped 1 coin of type Polish 5 Złoty:
15:06:33 [Zakim]: +??P38
15:06:41 [Zakim]: -pfps
15:06:43 [ericP]: scribenick: ericP
15:06:56 [MacTed]: Zakim, who's noisy?
15:06:58 [NickH]: Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:06:58 [Zakim]: +NickH; got it
15:07:03 [NickH]: Zakim, mute me
15:07:03 [Zakim]: NickH should now be muted
15:07:07 [Zakim]: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gavinc (7%), ??P38 (15%), EricP (52%)
15:07:29 [MacTed]: Zakim, unmute me
15:07:29 [Zakim]: MacTed should no longer be muted
15:07:40 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
15:07:40 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
15:07:41 [zwu2]: zakim, mute me
15:07:41 [Zakim]: zwu2 should now be muted
15:07:57 [MacTed]: Zakim, unmute me
15:07:57 [Zakim]: MacTed should no longer be muted
15:08:08 [gavinc]: the click seems to be zakim?
15:08:23 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute me
15:08:23 [Zakim]: MacTed should now be muted
15:08:25 [Zakim]: -AndyS1
15:08:28 [MacTed]: Zakim, mute ericP
15:08:28 [Zakim]: EricP should now be muted
15:08:29 [MacTed]: :-)
15:08:36 [ericP]: weak!
15:08:41 [Zakim]: -EricP
15:08:53 [Zakim]: +EricP
15:09:05 [gavinc]: click, click, click
15:09:11 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:09:21 [AndyS1]: zakim, IPCaller is me
15:09:21 [Zakim]: +AndyS1; got it
15:09:24 [gavinc]: Ah, that must be AndyS in a snowstorm
15:10:37 [Guus]: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 14 Mar telecon:
15:10:50 [ericP]: RESOLVED
15:11:16 [ericP]: topic: action item review
15:11:34 [ericP]: Guus: Turtle actions will be taken up in Turtle agendum
15:11:36 [Zakim]: -AndyS1
15:11:46 [ericP]: ... Sandro and I owe actions
15:12:18 [ericP]: topic: getting Turtle to LC
15:12:29 [gavinc]: I claim victory on ACTION-154!
15:12:37 [gavinc]: ACTION-150?
15:12:37 [trackbot]: ACTION-150 -- Gavin Carothers to fail to update Turtle/N-Triples grammar to not use \u escaping in the local part of prefix names -- due 2012-03-21 -- OPEN
15:12:37 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/150
15:12:50 [Zakim]: +??P25
15:13:06 [AndyS1]: zakim, ??P25 is me
15:13:06 [Zakim]: +AndyS1; got it
15:14:17 [cygri]: cygri has joined #rdf-wg
15:14:30 [ericP]: Guus: do we need to discussion the ":"s in local names issue?
15:14:37 [cygri]: zakim, code?
15:14:37 [Zakim]: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
15:14:44 [ericP]: gavinc: since i didn't file the issue in time, i suspect we'll do nothing about it
15:14:50 [ericP]: ... i'm mostly okay with that
15:15:03 [Zakim]: +mhausenblas
15:15:04 [ericP]: ... creates some probs for a poor vocab proposed by facebook
15:15:07 [cygri]: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:15:07 [Zakim]: +cygri; got it
15:15:42 [LeeF]: colons? wacky
15:15:43 [ericP]: ... Facebook uses ":"s in local part of propery names
15:15:50 [ericP]: ivan: already widely used?
15:15:54 [ericP]: gavinc: yup
15:15:59 [ericP]: ack me
15:16:28 [ericP]: CONTINUE ACTION-152
15:16:39 [zwu2]: yes
15:16:47 [ericP]: ACTION-153 DONE
15:16:57 [AndyS1]: example - og:video:height
15:17:06 [AndyS1]: http://developers.facebook.com/docs/opengraphprotocol/
15:17:36 [ericP]: ACTION-154
15:17:50 [ericP]: gavinc: we keep the case-sensitivity
15:17:54 [AndyS1]: The "og:" is effectively a prefix part, the "video:height" is effectively a local part
15:17:58 [ericP]: ... i'll remove the change note
15:18:29 [ericP]: ACTION-154 DONE
15:18:48 [PatH]: PatH has joined #rdf-wg
15:18:57 [ericP]: Guus: note that next week's telecon returns to CT's 5pm
15:18:57 [PatH]: Sorry Im late.
15:19:59 [Zakim]: +PatH
15:20:10 [zwu2]: zakim, unmute me
15:20:10 [Zakim]: zwu2 should no longer be muted
15:20:12 [zwu2]: q+
15:20:19 [ericP]: gavinc: issues were relationship between texp/plain and application/ntriples
15:20:29 [ericP]: ... and @@1
15:20:46 [Zakim]: +pfps
15:21:03 [ericP]: zwu2: we'd like to see clarification of consequences of using new encoding on old tool
15:21:26 [PatH]: zakim, mute me.
15:21:26 [Zakim]: PatH should now be muted
15:21:29 [ericP]: gavinc: can we say "there may be some issues" instead of "you should continue to serve ntriples as US-ASCII"?
15:21:37 [ericP]: zwu2: agree to a large extent
15:21:52 [ericP]: ... but for maximum backward-compatibility, one should
15:22:10 [ericP]: ... is it acceptable to include that qualifier [in the spec]?
15:22:14 [cygri]: q+
15:22:21 [ericP]: gavinc: i'm not ok with that but willing to defer to the WG
15:22:29 [ericP]: ... many tools today already accept UTF8
15:22:38 [AndyS1]: which existing tools actually look at the Content-Type (and charset)?
15:22:44 [ericP]: zwu2: there are many tools which do not accept the new encoding
15:23:01 [ericP]: davidwood: that doesn't mean we should prefer ASCII for the next 10 years
15:23:21 [davidwood]: We should *allow*, but not *prefer* ASCII
15:23:50 [ericP]: zwu2: for this new encoding to work with tools, shouldn't we document the backward-compatibility path?
15:23:52 [cygri]: q?
15:24:18 [ericP]: davidwood: as long as ASCII is allowed, how does it hurt backward-compatibility even if it's not preferred?
15:24:43 [PatH]: The issue I think is that to express any kind of preference for ASCII might (we hope) be archaic some years from now, even if it is accurate now.
15:24:44 [ericP]: zwu2: supposed you create an ntriples file in two years, and then i feed it to rapper
15:25:04 [ericP]: ... it will fail. should we have a warning indicating these consequences
15:25:20 [ericP]: note that this is *forward* compatibility
15:25:37 [ericP]: new data on old tools
15:25:49 [cygri]: q?
15:25:52 [PatH]: it is a delicate matter of wording and nuance.
15:26:31 [ericP]: gavinc: i propose to propose some text over the next week. good enough?
15:26:46 [ericP]: Guus: let's leave that to editorial discretion
15:26:52 [Guus]: ack zwu
15:26:59 [Guus]: ack cygri
15:27:12 [ericP]: cygri: it may not be necessary to say what people should do in what case, instead just the facts:
15:27:31 [ericP]: ... utf8 and us-ascii are both valid encodings for turtle
15:27:43 [PatH]: +1 to richard
15:27:43 [ericP]: ... some legacy systems do not handle utf8
15:27:53 [gavinc]: +1 richard
15:28:05 [AlexHall]: +1, describe the technical issues and let people decide
15:28:06 [ericP]: gavinc: yes [going in this direction]
15:28:27 [ericP]: cygri: it's reasonable to point out that conventional tools don't handle utf-8
15:28:29 [PatH]: could also say, at the time of writing....
15:28:46 [ericP]: Guus: let's leave this as useful input to the editors
15:28:52 [gavinc]: +1 PatH, and include the date ;)
15:28:55 [cygri]: "at the time of writing" sounds reasonable
15:29:23 [ivan]: issue-73?
15:29:23 [trackbot]: ISSUE-73 -- IRI_REF vs. IRIref -- open
15:29:23 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/73
15:29:43 [ericP]: Guus: we agreed that you three work this out
15:29:49 [AndyS1]: Is done in SPARQL.
15:29:49 [ericP]: gavinc: i think we have
15:30:38 [ericP]: AndyS1: action told us to get our act together off-list
15:30:56 [ericP]: ... i have changed the sparql grammar
15:30:58 [ericP]: ack me
15:31:30 [gavinc]: IRI_REF => IRIREF
15:31:31 [gavinc]: IRIRef => iri
15:31:33 [gavinc]: IRIRefOrFunction => iriOrFunction
15:31:34 [gavinc]: VarOrIRIref => VarOrIri
15:31:38 [PatH]: it has consequences throughout the documents though, so get it right, guys. ;
15:32:49 [ericP]: these productions have consequences in the turtle semantics (parsing rules) as well
15:32:59 [PatH]: I was under the naive impression that
15:33:28 [gavinc]: PROPOSE Resolve Issue-73 by changing the following productions in Turtle: IRI_REF => IRIREF, IRIRef => iri, IRIRefOrFunction => iriOrFunction, VarOrIRIref => VarOrIri
15:33:29 [PatH]: IRI didnt need to have ref added :-(
15:33:50 [ericP]: ack me
15:34:11 [PatH]: not disputing, just muddled.
15:34:27 [AndyS1]: iri is prefix name and <...>
15:34:38 [AndyS1]: IRIREF is the <...> from RFC
15:34:43 [AndyS1]: +1
15:34:46 [ericP]: +1
15:34:49 [gavinc]: +1
15:34:50 [PatH]: +0
15:35:06 [ericP]: RESOLVED
15:36:04 [ericP]: RESOLVED: Resolve Issue-73 by changing the following productions in Turtle: IRI_REF => IRIREF, IRIRef => iri, IRIRefOrFunction => iriOrFunction, VarOrIRIref => VarOrIri
15:36:11 [AZ]: AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:36:29 [AndyS1]: issue-74?
15:36:29 [trackbot]: ISSUE-74 -- Prefixed names and slashes -- open
15:36:29 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/74
15:37:02 [ericP]: yep
15:37:36 [ericP]: Guus: are we still on track for publication next week?
15:37:44 [Zakim]: +??P3
15:37:53 [ericP]: gavinc: i believe we can have somehting for folks to review next week.
15:37:59 [AZ]: zakim, ??P3 is me
15:37:59 [Zakim]: +AZ; got it
15:38:08 [ericP]: ... i don't think adding a week [before review] would help
15:38:24 [ericP]: Guus: we keep to current schedule
15:38:48 [ericP]: ... two reviews expected 9 April, so possible decision to publish 11 April
15:39:06 [ericP]: ... Andy brought up tests. when should we discuss them?
15:39:19 [ericP]: ... we can discuss them during LC
15:39:35 [ericP]: gavinc: i originally volunteered to write test cases for turtle
15:40:05 [ericP]: ... won't get to them before LC
15:40:11 [ericP]: topic: named graph semantics
15:40:12 [PatH]: zakim, unmute me.
15:40:12 [Zakim]: PatH should no longer be muted
15:40:15 [gavinc]: Zakim, mute me
15:40:15 [Zakim]: gavinc should now be muted
15:40:42 [ericP]: Guus: we spent some time last week
15:41:00 [ericP]: PatH: may i have another week to write up the idea discussed last week
15:41:10 [ericP]: Guus: would like concrete actions to work out examples
15:41:27 [ericP]: ... i'm worried about how to explain this to folks outside WG
15:41:40 [ericP]: ... could work that out as draft text in the primer
15:41:52 [ericP]: ... i liked PatH's text which described what happens on import
15:42:07 [ericP]: ... which everyone does
15:42:14 [PatH]: I will try to write it as primer-level text.
15:42:24 [ericP]: PatH: draft text for Primer would be useful
15:42:44 [PatH]: ok, sounds great
15:42:56 [ericP]: ACITON: Guus to draft Primer text on importing named graphs
15:43:04 [ericP]: ACTION: Guus to draft Primer text on importing named graphs
15:43:04 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-159 - Draft Primer text on importing named graphs [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-03-28].
15:43:29 [ericP]: Guus: would be nice to apply use cases to PatH's proposal
15:43:47 [PatH]: fwiw, the point i am having trouble with is having an
15:44:21 [PatH]: iri denote one thing while also indicating a context.
15:45:01 [ericP]: PatH: the biggest prob is having an iri able to identify both an e.g. person or context
15:45:06 [ericP]: ack me
15:45:16 [pfps]: I'm not sure what the problem is here.
15:45:26 [AndyS1]: q+
15:45:50 [ericP]: ... the fourth field could be any uri, e.g. used to identify an e.g. person
15:46:04 [cygri]: +1 to AndyS
15:46:12 [ericP]: ... how important is it for the same uri to identify both a real-world thingy and a context?
15:46:28 [ericP]: SteveH: it doesn't have to be santioned
15:46:51 [Guus]: ack AndyS
15:46:58 [ericP]: ... people will do what they do so it's not critical to make it so flexible
15:47:06 [ericP]: AndyS1: two subcases:
15:47:22 [ericP]: ... .. person, and e.g. LeeF doesn't expect the spec to cover it
15:47:29 [ericP]: ... .. location on the web
15:47:37 [LeeF]: That is a correct characterization of my position - we use URIs to denote both real-world things and graphs, and we don't really care if the spec covers it
15:47:41 [ericP]: ... could you do the easy one now, so we can see it?
15:47:51 [ericP]: ... would be nice to compare them side-by-side
15:48:12 [ericP]: PatH: hmm, not as easy as i thought, but can get it out in the next couple days
15:48:22 [AndyS1]: ack me
15:48:27 [ericP]: ... i'll document the simplest, and report its flaws
15:48:53 [ericP]: Guus: your second case splits where the web resource is static or dynamic
15:49:13 [ericP]: these three seem to come up consistently and cover the requirements
15:49:23 [MacTed]: the context comes in the triples involving the URI -- the URI itself is opaque...
15:49:23 [MacTed]: :URI a :person vs :URI a :webpage vs :URI a :electron
15:49:24 [MacTed]: :URI a :indeterminate-thing has attributes
15:49:24 [MacTed]: eventually you have enough attributes to know which it is -- or you know which attributes to discard, because they're not relevant to the thing with which you are concerned...
15:49:27 [ericP]: ... if we go for a solution, these should be the basis
15:50:18 [ericP]: davidwood: i thought that we decided even static was likely to change over time, just a matter of degree
15:50:25 [AndyS1]: case 1: static graph containers: always the same value // case 2: Changing contents (changing value) [maybe a continuum]
15:50:36 [ericP]: PatH: while that's true philosophically, there are those that we treat as static
15:50:54 [ericP]: ... so when static things change, we expect stuff to break
15:51:13 [ericP]: ... the dynamic stuff is engineered to change
15:51:47 [ericP]: davidwood: are you trying to make this isomorphic with things with things which should be time invariant?
15:52:02 [gavinc]: +q
15:52:05 [ericP]: ack me
15:52:21 [gavinc]: ack me
15:52:28 [Guus]: ack gavinc
15:52:34 [ericP]: PatH: people should be able to declare stuff invariant
15:52:44 [ericP]: ... e.g. signing, endorsing
15:52:53 [PatH]: eric is better than I am at writing my thoughts, which is scary.
15:52:55 [MacTed]: s/attributes to know which it is/attributes to know which class it belongs to/
15:53:02 [MacTed]: s/not relevant to the thing/not relevant to the class/
15:53:43 [ericP]: gavinc: i don't really agree RDF emulate snapshots for signing as every signing mechanism snapshots into a bytestream
15:54:05 [ericP]: PatH: how does one record a signed document as a web resource for later review?
15:55:14 [ivan]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_URI_scheme
15:55:46 [ericP]: gavinc: magnet URIs are designed for crypticographically identifying a resource for later search
15:56:24 [ericP]: Guus: magnet uris are a draft open standard
15:56:45 [MacTed]: Zakim, unmute me
15:56:46 [Zakim]: MacTed should no longer be muted
15:56:57 [ivan]: http://magnet-uri.sourceforge.net/
15:57:43 [ericP]: PatH: back to named graphs, maybe this makes a use case irrelevent. will consider
15:58:22 [ericP]: sandro: last i recall was gavinc and i disputed whether you needed crypto in the endorsement use case
15:59:03 [zwu2]: sorry I have another meeting coming up. bye.
15:59:11 [Zakim]: -zwu2
15:59:19 [ericP]: gavinc: crypto gets you the ability to use magent uris to identify things on the web and get them without dereference
15:59:59 [ericP]: q+ to say we *can* factor crypto out
16:00:19 [ericP]: AndyS1: there are existing tools and techniques using crypto
16:00:36 [ericP]: ... crypto not necessary technically
16:00:55 [ericP]: ack me
16:00:56 [Zakim]: ericP, you wanted to say we *can* factor crypto out
16:01:00 [PatH]: ?seem to be 2 cases? 1. controlling who gets to see the resource 2. ensuring that the resource referred to is the right one. I think (?) magnet uris are for the first?
16:01:16 [ericP]: ack me
16:01:33 [sandro]: found it --- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:02:36 [ericP]: ack me
16:04:33 [ericP]: MacTed: you have to hash a gsnap
16:04:49 [ericP]: or i can ask some trusted party to copy it
16:05:09 [ericP]: or you may trust me to nto alter the text, and i just want to talk *about* that graph
16:05:28 [Guus]: sandro, pls talk us through the page you pointed to
16:05:34 [ericP]: +1
16:05:36 [sandro]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:06:09 [PatH]: zakim, mute me
16:06:09 [Zakim]: PatH should now be muted
16:06:37 [ericP]: [conversation about guuids and crypto]
16:06:47 [PatH]: +1 to whoever just spoke
16:07:04 [PatH]: that was ted
16:07:04 [ericP]: sandro: gavin created this wiki page
16:07:26 [ericP]: ... started with use case "alice want to say that she agrees that 'Bob is named Bob'"
16:07:42 [sandro]: <#me> foaf:name "Bob",
16:07:50 [sandro]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0064.html
16:08:08 [ericP]: ... Bob says "<#me> foaf:name "Bob""
16:08:59 [sandro]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
16:09:07 [ericP]: ... adding crypto isn't required for this use case
16:09:45 [ericP]: ... gavinc's using something cryptographically derived from bytes instead "g775"
16:10:12 [ericP]: gavinc: if someone is externally signing the docs, you don't need the crypto in trig
16:10:35 [Guus]: q+
16:10:46 [davidwood]: q+ to comment against Sandro's message
16:11:02 [PatH]: trust =/= security?
16:11:10 [ericP]: ack me
16:11:43 [ericP]: Zakim, mute me
16:11:43 [Zakim]: EricP should now be muted
16:11:47 [PatH]: zakim, unmute me
16:11:47 [Zakim]: PatH should no longer be muted
16:12:19 [PatH]: q+
16:13:18 [ericP]: sandro: is there anything that this group needs to do to make this example work?
16:14:15 [AndyS1]: This WG does not need to solve this problem - it needs to enable it or just not block it.
16:15:11 [sandro]: sandro: I will happily agree that crypt-URIs *are* useful for when you DONT want to use TRIG. When the data is too long, or something.
16:15:24 [PatH]: q-
16:15:30 [Guus]: ack Guus
16:15:36 [Guus]: ack davidwood
16:15:36 [Zakim]: davidwood, you wanted to comment against Sandro's message
16:15:42 [ericP]: davidwood: critique of sandro's mail, alice could have made up "Bob's name is 'Bob'"
16:15:44 [PatH]: david just made mt point.
16:15:59 [PatH]: mt//my
16:17:08 [MacTed]: what "GRAPH"? gsnap, gbox, gtext? I think there is slop happening...
16:17:28 [ericP]: PatH: there's not much point is endorsing a mathmatical abstraction
16:18:04 [ericP]: i wonder if annotea was an endorsement system
16:18:25 [PatH]: time rescues us again....
16:18:32 [ericP]: Guus: if we don't get some examples, we have to go with the minimal solution
16:18:55 [Zakim]: -cgreer
16:18:58 [ericP]: sandro: or admit defeat (preferrable to claiming victory on a non-success)
16:18:59 [Zakim]: -PatH
16:19:17 [Zakim]: -AZ
16:19:22 [Zakim]: - +1.603.897.aaaa
16:19:22 [AndyS1]: We should define TriG syntax -- it's out there now -- ditto nquads
16:19:25 [ericP]: ck me
16:19:25 [Zakim]: -pfps
16:19:27 [ericP]: ack me
16:19:29 [Zakim]: -Arnaud
16:19:30 [Zakim]: -AlexHall
16:19:30 [Zakim]: -sandro
16:19:35 [Zakim]: -NickH
16:19:37 [Zakim]: -Guus_Schreiber
16:19:37 [Zakim]: -AndyS1
16:19:41 [Zakim]: -gavinc
16:19:44 [Zakim]: -Ivan
16:19:46 [MacTed]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
16:19:49 [MacTed]: :-)
16:19:49 [sandro]: syntax without semantics, AndyS ? Maybe....
16:19:51 [davidwood]: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
16:20:11 [Zakim]: -MacTed
16:20:34 [Zakim]: -EricP
16:20:35 [Zakim]: -cygri
16:20:37 [Zakim]: -davidwood
16:20:39 [AndyS1]: If we can't define the semantics we can at least enable data exchange.
16:21:03 [davidwood]: AndyS I like it as a first step
16:21:03 [gavinc]: +1
16:21:07 [sandro]: yep. true.
16:21:17 [AndyS1]: It will happen, the only Q is whether we help interoperability or not by fixing details.
16:23:30 [Zakim]: -SteveH
16:23:36 [AlexHall]: AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
16:25:09 [Zakim]: -LeeF
16:25:10 [Zakim]: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
16:25:10 [Zakim]: Attendees were gavinc, sandro, +1.603.897.aaaa, Arnaud, pfps, Guus_Schreiber, EricP, davidwood, cgreer, AndyS1, Ivan, +1.443.212.aabb, AlexHall, MacTed, zwu2, LeeF, SteveH, NickH,
16:25:10 [Zakim]: ... cygri, PatH, AZ
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