IRC log of ua on 2012-03-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:58:55 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:58:55 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-irc
16:58:57 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:58:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:58:59 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:58:59 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:59:00 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:59:00 [trackbot]
Date: 08 March 2012
16:59:15 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:59:26 [JAllan]
chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:59:36 [JAllan]
regrets, MarkH, SimonH
17:54:48 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
17:56:35 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
17:56:35 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
17:58:14 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
18:00:15 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
18:00:49 [kford]
Agenda+ Action Item review
18:00:50 [kford]
Agenda+ Dealing with the NOs in the spreadsheet Issue review getting to
18:00:52 [kford]
Agenda+ document closure
18:01:02 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:01:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html kford
18:01:29 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
18:02:43 [kford]
Regrets: Simon, Mark
18:03:13 [Jan]
zakim, whos' here?
18:03:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Jan.
18:03:18 [Jan]
zakim, who's here?
18:03:18 [Zakim]
sorry, Jan, I don't know what conference this is
18:03:20 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Jan, jeanne, Greg, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot
18:03:29 [jeanne]
zakim, this is UA
18:03:29 [Zakim]
ok, jeanne; that matches WAI_UAWG()1:00PM
18:03:43 [jeanne]
zakim, code?
18:03:43 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jeanne
18:03:47 [jeanne]
zakim, who is here?
18:03:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Greg_Lowney, [Microsoft], Jeanne, [IPcaller]
18:03:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Jan, jeanne, Greg, kford, Zakim, RRSAgent, JAllan, trackbot
18:04:07 [jeanne]
zakim, IPcaller is Jan
18:04:07 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:04:15 [jeanne]
zakim, Microsoft is Kelly
18:04:15 [Zakim]
+Kelly; got it
18:04:18 [kford]
zakim, microsoft is kford
18:04:18 [Zakim]
sorry, kford, I do not recognize a party named 'microsoft'
18:04:41 [kford]
zakim, kelly is kford
18:04:41 [Zakim]
+kford; got it
18:05:12 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120306/
18:05:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.435.aaaa
18:06:02 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
18:11:39 [JAllan]
scribe: jallan
18:11:49 [JAllan]
reviewed the new document
18:11:59 [JAllan]
all are pleased
18:12:16 [JAllan]
js: please close any action items you know should be closed
18:12:54 [jeanne]
regrets+ Wayne
18:13:29 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-UAAG20-20120306/
18:15:36 [JAllan]
jeanne: explaining how ATAG work, keep local copy then email completed version to Jeanne publishing.
18:18:51 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
18:18:51 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:18:53 [Zakim]
1. Action Item review [from kford]
18:18:53 [Zakim]
2. Dealing with the NOs in the spreadsheet Issue review getting to [from kford]
18:18:53 [Zakim]
3. document closure [from kford]
18:20:06 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:20:10 [JAllan]
topic: Action-708
18:20:29 [Zakim]
-Jan
18:20:30 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0080.html
18:22:56 [JAllan]
New Summary of gl 2.1
18:22:58 [JAllan]
Summary: Users can operate all functions (2.1.1), and move focus
18:22:59 [JAllan]
(2.1.2) using just the keyboard. Users can activate important or
18:23:01 [JAllan]
common features with shortcut keys, (2.1.8), override keyboard
18:23:02 [JAllan]
shortcuts in content and user interface (2.1.4), escape keyboard traps
18:23:04 [JAllan]
(2.1.5), specify that selecting an item in a dropdown list or menuoes
18:23:06 [JAllan]
not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6) and use
18:23:08 [JAllan]
standard keys for that platform (2.1.7).@@removed 2.1.3...just the
18:23:09 [JAllan]
numerals no words removed.
18:23:27 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 2.2.2:
18:23:29 [JAllan]
It is important for the user to be able to jump directly to the next
18:23:30 [JAllan]
or previous viewports without having to visit every element in a
18:23:32 [JAllan]
viewport on the way to the next viewport, because that can add an
18:23:34 [JAllan]
exorbitant number of navigation commands to operations that should be
18:23:36 [JAllan]
both easy and efficient. User need keyboard access to all viewports
18:23:38 [JAllan]
and all enabled elements so that they can manipulate them, view them
18:23:39 [JAllan]
with screen magnifiers, or have them described by screen readers. The
18:23:41 [JAllan]
ability to move both forward and backward through the navigation order
18:23:42 [JAllan]
greatly reduces the number of keystrokes and allows the user to more
18:23:44 [JAllan]
easily recover from mistakes in overshooting a destination. @@This
18:23:45 [JAllan]
navigation can be between viewports within the application, or between
18:23:47 [JAllan]
windows or applications. This includes the user agent's user
18:23:48 [JAllan]
interface, extensions to the user interface (e.g. add-on), content,
18:23:50 [JAllan]
and plug-ins handling content. @@added from 213@@
18:24:02 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 2.2.2:
18:24:03 [JAllan]
It is important for the user to be able to jump directly to the next
18:24:05 [JAllan]
or previous viewports without having to visit every element in a
18:24:06 [JAllan]
viewport on the way to the next viewport, because that can add an
18:24:08 [JAllan]
exorbitant number of navigation commands to operations that should be
18:24:09 [JAllan]
both easy and efficient. Users need keyboard access to all viewports
18:24:11 [JAllan]
and all enabled elements so that they can manipulate them, view them
18:24:12 [JAllan]
with screen magnifiers, or have them described by screen readers. The
18:24:14 [JAllan]
ability to move both forward and backward through the navigation order
18:24:15 [JAllan]
greatly reduces the number of keystrokes and allows the user to more
18:24:17 [JAllan]
easily recover from mistakes in overshooting a destination. @@This
18:24:18 [JAllan]
navigation can be between viewports within the application, and between
18:24:20 [JAllan]
windows or applications. This includes the user agent's user
18:24:22 [JAllan]
interface, extensions to the user interface (e.g. add-on), content,
18:24:23 [JAllan]
and plug-ins handling content. @@added from 213@@
18:25:36 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:28:04 [JAllan]
close Action-708
18:28:04 [trackbot]
ACTION-708 Merge intents of 213 and 222 and fix the summaries of 2.1 and 2.3 closed
18:29:41 [JAllan]
topic: Action-707
18:29:46 [JAllan]
Since 2.1.4 is deleted the summary for GL 2.1 needs to be rewritten
18:29:47 [JAllan]
and GL 2.1 will need to be RENUMBERED.
18:29:49 [JAllan]
Summary: Users can operate all functions (2.1.1), and move focus
18:29:51 [JAllan]
(2.1.2, 2.1.3) using just the keyboard. Users can activate important
18:29:52 [JAllan]
or common features with shortcut keys, (2.1.8), escape keyboard traps
18:29:54 [JAllan]
(2.1.5), specify that selecting an item in a dropdown list or menues
18:29:56 [JAllan]
not activate that item or move to that new web page (2.1.6) and use
18:29:57 [JAllan]
standard keys for that platform (2.1.7). @@removed section on 214@@
18:31:24 [JAllan]
New Summary for GL 2.3 @@newstuff@@
18:31:25 [JAllan]
Summary: Users can navigate directly (e.g. keyboard shortcuts) to
18:31:27 [JAllan]
important elements (2.3.1) with the option of immediate activation of
18:31:29 [JAllan]
the operable elements (2.3.3). Display commands with the elements to
18:31:30 [JAllan]
make it easier for users to discover the commands (2.3.2 & 2.3.4). The
18:31:32 [JAllan]
user can remap @@and save the user interface and content@@ direct
18:31:33 [JAllan]
commands to their needs (2.3.5).
18:33:35 [JAllan]
The user can remap and save direct commands to their needs (2.3.5).
18:34:00 [JAllan]
The user can remap and save direct commands (2.3.5).
18:34:33 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:35:09 [JAllan]
New Summary for GL 2.3
18:35:11 [JAllan]
Summary: Users can navigate directly (e.g. keyboard shortcuts) to
18:35:12 [JAllan]
important elements (2.3.1) with the option of immediate activation of
18:35:14 [JAllan]
the operable elements (2.3.3). Display commands with the elements to
18:35:15 [JAllan]
make it easier for users to discover the commands (2.3.2 & 2.3.4). The user can remap and save direct commands (2.3.5).
18:36:06 [JAllan]
new first paragraph for intent of 235
18:36:13 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 2.3.5
18:36:15 [JAllan]
Some users may be able to hit certain keys on the keyboard with
18:36:16 [JAllan]
greater ease than others. Assistive technology software typically has
18:36:18 [JAllan]
extensive keyboard commands as well. The goal of this SC is to enable
18:36:19 [JAllan]
the user to be in control of what happens when a given key is pressed
18:36:21 [JAllan]
and use the keyboard commands that meet his or her needs, and the
18:36:23 [JAllan]
ability to save the modifications.@@added from 214@@
18:39:58 [JAllan]
close Action-708
18:39:58 [trackbot]
ACTION-708 Merge intents of 213 and 222 and fix the summaries of 2.1 and 2.3 closed
18:41:26 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:44:52 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2011AprJun/0082.html
18:45:09 [JAllan]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/actions/583
18:47:28 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110706/results
18:48:56 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/2011/07/07-ua-minutes.html#action02
18:52:46 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:53:31 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:54:50 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:58:34 [JAllan]
The author may have provided synchronized alternatives for the media. Users should be able to easily discover the synchronized alternatives provided, and have them render synchronously with the default media. There are times when a user cannot gain meaningful information from a non-time-based media element (images, charts, graphs, etc.). The author may have provided alternatives for this....
18:58:35 [JAllan]
...The user should be able to easily discover the alternatives provided, and have them render in place of the default media.
19:00:00 [jeanne]
There are times when a user cannot gain meaningful information from time-based (video, audio) or non-time-based media elements (images, charts, graphs, etc.). The author may have provided alternatives for this. The user should be able to easily discover the alternatives provided, and have them render in place of the default media.
19:01:14 [JAllan]
close Action-583
19:01:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-583 Update 1.1.2 with updated text from the survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20110706/results closed
19:02:13 [JAllan]
close Action-573
19:02:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-573 Try again with 1.1.2 Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content - presentation, along with closed
19:03:13 [JAllan]
Topic: Action-700
19:03:16 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
19:03:47 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
19:05:02 [Greg]
Existing 2.1.6: 2.1.6 Separate Selection from Activation (former 2.1.4): The user can specify that selection is separate from activation (e.g. navigating through a set of radio buttons without changing which is the active/selected option). (Level A)
19:07:08 [Greg]
Existing 3.4.2: 3.4.2 Avoid Side Effects of Navigation [former 1.9.1, before that 3.11.11, changed]: The user can move the keyboard focus without causing the user agent to take any further action, other than the presentation of information (e.g. scrolling or pop-ups that do not change the focus or selection). (Level A)
19:07:22 [Greg]
Jan's proposed combination: 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects: The user can specify that focus and selection can be moved without causing side effects (further changes in focus, selection or the state of controls) by either the user agent or author content. (Level A)
19:09:12 [JAllan]
jim, kim +1
19:09:40 [JAllan]
gl: lost the caveat that help text and pop ups are ok
19:10:18 [JAllan]
... this will fail all UAs. when you tab to a link the url shows on the status line
19:10:50 [Greg]
I think we need to keep the "other than the presentation of information (e.g. scrolling or pop-ups that do not change the focus or selection)" so that browsers don't fail for showing you the URL a link points to, etc.
19:11:45 [Greg]
Or something to that effect.
19:14:19 [JAllan]
Navigation Without Side Effects: The user can specify that focus and selection can be moved without causing further changes in focus, selection or the state of controls, by either the user agent or author content.
19:17:18 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
19:19:44 [JAllan]
kp: this is ok, radio button not seen as a big issue
19:20:21 [JAllan]
js: deleting 342
19:24:14 [JAllan]
close Action-700
19:24:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-700 Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok closed
19:27:00 [JAllan]
kf: what is the indicator for being DONE with gl SC, etc
19:27:39 [Zakim]
-kford
19:27:47 [JAllan]
kp: henni did a great presentation at csun about mobile will try to get the reaources
19:27:51 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
19:28:01 [Zakim]
- +1.617.435.aaaa
19:29:50 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:29:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:30:10 [JAllan]
present: kim, jim, kelly, jeanne, greg
19:30:22 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:30:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:32:20 [JAllan]
close Action-577
19:32:20 [trackbot]
ACTION-577 Update 2.3.5 with text from survey with the edits from Kim as noted in the minutes below. closed
19:32:34 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:32:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:46:23 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #ua
19:54:23 [JAllan]
JAllan has joined #ua
19:55:26 [JAllan]
close Action-633
19:55:26 [trackbot]
ACTION-633 change the wording of 1.4.1 to be - The user can globally set any or all of the following characteristics of visually rendered text content, overriding any specified by the author or user agent defaults: closed
19:55:37 [JAllan]
close Action-632
19:55:37 [trackbot]
ACTION-632 Add (d) line spacing, and (e) character spacing to 1.4.1 closed
19:55:55 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:55:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:57:33 [JAllan]
close Action-608
19:57:33 [trackbot]
ACTION-608 Look at splitting up 1.6.1-3. closed
20:00:17 [JAllan]
close issue-69
20:00:17 [trackbot]
ISSUE-69 Guidelines for keyboard and mouse navigation in complex, nested scrollable areas and content closed
20:06:02 [jeanne]
close Action-517
20:06:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-517 Rewrite 1.8.5 using simons stuff, gregs comments, and include whole toolbars as well as components closed
20:17:04 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:17:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
20:17:48 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
20:17:57 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
20:17:58 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
20:17:58 [Zakim]
Attendees were Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, kford, +1.617.435.aaaa, Jim_Allan
20:18:09 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:18:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/08-ua-minutes.html JAllan
20:18:26 [JAllan]
zakim, please part
20:18:26 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
20:18:33 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
20:18:33 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items