IRC log of ua on 2012-03-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:00:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
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Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 01 March 2012
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WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
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+[Microsoft]
18:00:22 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
18:00:39 [JAllan]
chair: jimallan, KellyFord
18:00:54 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
18:01:05 [kford]
kford has joined #ua
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present: Jim, Kelly, Jeanne, Greg
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+Greg_Lowney
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+Jim_Allan
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+Jeanne
18:04:28 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
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zakim, code?
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the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
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+[IPcaller]
18:09:54 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
18:09:54 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
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Scribe: kford
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sharper has joined #ua
18:11:11 [kford]
JS: Talking about experience yesterday going through spreadsheet to assign ratings.
18:11:50 [kford]
JS: Leanred two things, moved relatively quickly. Surprised at how many items were initially a 5 but when we probed, we had more 3 or 2.
18:11:51 [JAllan]
Agenda+ Discussion on guideline levels
18:12:08 [JAllan]
Agenda+ ACTION-716 New example for 2.1.4
18:12:09 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0067.html
18:12:18 [kford]
JS: When we finished we found 4 that were obvious that priority should be lowered.
18:12:22 [JAllan]
Agenda+ Addition to IER for 1.1.3 Browse and Render
18:12:24 [JAllan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0065.html
18:12:26 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:12:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html kford
18:12:38 [kford]
zakim, agenda?
18:12:38 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:12:39 [Zakim]
1. Discussion on guideline levels [from JAllan]
18:12:39 [Zakim]
2. ACTION-716 New example for 2.1.4 [from JAllan]
18:12:39 [Zakim]
3. Addition to IER for 1.1.3 Browse and Render [from JAllan]
18:12:46 [kford]
zakim, take up item 1
18:12:46 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Discussion on guideline levels" taken up [from JAllan]
18:12:59 [kford]
JS: Overall we think spreadsheet is a good tool but taking to long.
18:13:23 [kford]
JS: We think we should group up and look only at level A items.
18:13:41 [kford]
JS: 72 of 115 SCare level A. Believe target should be 35.
18:14:13 [kford]
s/SCare/SC are/
18:14:22 [kford]
JS What does the group think?
18:14:28 [kford]
Silence.
18:16:48 [Zakim]
+??P13
18:16:52 [sharper]
zakim, ??P13 is sharper
18:16:52 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
18:17:05 [kford]
JR: I think we need to be certain that SC are done, no more dupes, missing, changes.
18:17:54 [kford]
GL: Can we lock down on some of these.
18:18:04 [kford]
GL: These being the SC.
18:18:42 [kford]
JR: We are marking in ATAG what text is still open directly in the document.
18:18:57 [kford]
GL: I'm a fan of keeping info on one place.
18:19:06 [kford]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:19:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html kford
18:21:38 [kford]
More discussion on locking down.
18:23:02 [JAllan]
kf: hearing 2 things. using @@ and trying to adjust priority.
18:25:24 [JAllan]
js: want to reduce number of SC (currently 115), wcag 30+ atag ~60
18:26:10 [JAllan]
ja: chairs need to review the document for what needs attention, what items are outstanding
18:27:23 [JAllan]
kf: ask all to review action items, clear out what is no longer needed, hilite those that still need attention
18:27:58 [JAllan]
... need to mark up in the document what items are finished and not touch them again.
18:28:39 [JAllan]
... tried to do that at last f2f, but we have retouched alot things we thought were finished.
18:28:48 [JAllan]
kf: where are we?
18:29:38 [JAllan]
jr: there is a fuzziness. not sure what is finished. need to mark in the document not an external list.
18:30:19 [JAllan]
... need to remove some SC (that are implied by other SC)
18:31:13 [JAllan]
kf: SC in 3 states, 1)done, open 2)actions-not done, 3) we don't know!
18:32:37 [JAllan]
jr: add @@ to everything. then correct as needed
18:32:57 [JAllan]
js: don't want to do this, will clutter the document.
18:33:25 [JAllan]
kf: how will I know if 1.1.1 is done or not yet
18:33:41 [JAllan]
gl: open actions, proposals, they need @@
18:33:56 [JAllan]
... or things with NO in the spreadsheet
18:34:19 [JAllan]
js: can put @@ and action number by every item necessary.
18:35:32 [JAllan]
kf: balance of opinions.
18:36:23 [JAllan]
jr: @@ on NOs in CA and all things we didn't touch in CA
18:36:46 [JAllan]
jim and jeanne Ok
18:37:19 [JAllan]
kf: want to get document in state that we know whats happening by next week
18:37:39 [JAllan]
...what can be cut out, what lowered in priority.
18:37:49 [kford]
zakim, close item 1
18:37:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Discussion on guideline levels, closed
18:37:50 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:37:50 [Zakim]
2. ACTION-716 New example for 2.1.4 [from JAllan]
18:37:54 [JAllan]
kf: done with that.
18:38:18 [kford]
JA: We have a new proposal.
18:38:33 [JAllan]
New example for 2.1.4.
18:38:35 [JAllan]
Jenny's wordprocessing app uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. Her web browser also uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She opens a hotkey reassignment feature in the user agent, and sets Shift+Ctrl+f to be the new hotkey for the find dialog box in her wordprocessing app.
18:38:37 [JAllan]
Note: This replaces the Elaine example, which moves to 2.1.9
18:38:45 [kford]
JA: Wrote new sentence in intent and example for an item.
18:39:00 [kford]
JA: That was Kim who did this for 2.1.4
18:39:06 [JAllan]
2.1.4 Specify preferred keystrokes (former 2.1.2):
18:39:08 [JAllan]
The user can override any keyboard shortcut including recognized author supplied shortcuts (e.g. accesskeys) and user interface controls, except for conventional bindings for the operating environment (e.g. arrow keys for navigating within menus). (Level A)
18:40:36 [JAllan]
gl: if they are separate applications it doesn't make any sense.
18:41:06 [JAllan]
jr: change wordprocessing to webapp
18:41:35 [JAllan]
gl: or wordprocessing webapp, or wordprocessor is hosted in the browser
18:42:44 [Greg]
Jenny's web-based wordprocessing app uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She runs it hosted in her user agent, which also uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She opens a hotkey reassignment feature in the user agent, and sets Shift+Ctrl+f to be the new hotkey for the find dialog box in her wordprocessing app.
18:44:21 [JAllan]
jr: the SC is taling about an ACCESSKEY,
18:45:11 [JAllan]
gl: html5 events and commands are recognized by the browser. and the author can assign kebindings
18:46:23 [JAllan]
gl: this is confusing. we are not always clear about content or interface
18:46:37 [kford]
Group continuing to discuss what the SC means.
18:48:06 [JAllan]
jan: we should be able to remap the accesskey html5 commands etc. if the browser understands the keybinding it can modify it
18:52:30 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 2
18:52:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2, ACTION-716 New example for 2.1.4, closed
18:52:31 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
18:52:31 [Zakim]
3. Addition to IER for 1.1.3 Browse and Render [from JAllan]
18:52:40 [kford]
zakim, take up item 3
18:52:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Addition to IER for 1.1.3 Browse and Render" taken up [from JAllan]
18:52:44 [jeanne]
action: Jeanne to add the above test to 2.1.4 example. Jenny's web-based wordprocessing app uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She runs it hosted in her user agent, which also uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She opens a hotkey reassignment feature in the user agent, and sets Shift+Ctrl+f to be the new hotkey for the find dialog box in her wordprocessing app.
18:52:45 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-718 - Add the above test to 2.1.4 example. Jenny's web-based wordprocessing app uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She runs it hosted in her user agent, which also uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She opens a hotkey reassignment feature in the user agent, and sets Shift+Ctrl+f to be the new hotkey for the find dialog box in her wordprocessing app. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-03-08].
18:53:01 [JAllan]
zakim, next item
18:53:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, JAllan
18:53:08 [JAllan]
"Note: Although it is not required, user agents are also encouraged to let the user replace time-based media with their alternatives (e.g. replacing a video with its transcript) or supplement non-time-based media with their alternatives (e.g. displaying alternative text or long description beneath an image)."
18:55:53 [JAllan]
this text is for 1.1.2
18:56:34 [JAllan]
the above would be a note after the following
18:56:38 [JAllan]
Intent of Success Criterion 1.1.2:
18:56:40 [JAllan]
a. There are times when users cannot gain meaningful information from images, charts, graphs, etc. (non-time-based media elements).The author may have provided synchronized alternatives for the media. Users should be able to easily discover the synchronized alternatives provided, and have them render synchronously with the default media.
18:56:42 [JAllan]
b. There are times when a user cannot gain meaningful information from a non-time-based media element (images, charts, graphs, etc.). The author may have provided alternatives for this. The user should be able to easily discover the alternatives provided, and have them render in place of the default media.
18:56:54 [JAllan]
"Note: Although it is not required, user agents are also encouraged to let the user replace time-based media with their alternatives (e.g. replacing a video with its transcript) or supplement non-time-based media with their alternatives (e.g. displaying alternative text or long description beneath an image).
18:58:10 [JAllan]
js: thinks we will run into issues with the note. big area of controversy in html5/aria about hiding text
18:58:43 [JAllan]
gl: more specificity please
19:00:30 [JAllan]
discussion about hidden content
19:01:00 [jeanne]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2012Feb/
19:01:48 [JAllan]
current note on SC is Note: User agents are encouraged to also provide the ability to display alternate content with, rather than replacing, the primary content (e.g. as a pop-up, tooltip, or annotation).
19:03:26 [kford]
JA: We are not taking this proposal.
19:04:47 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
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-Greg_Lowney
19:04:56 [JAllan]
zaki8m, make minutes
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-sharper
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sharper has left #ua
19:05:11 [JAllan]
zakim, who is here?
19:05:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Jim_Allan, Jeanne
19:05:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Jan, kford, Greg, RRSAgent, Zakim, JAllan, jeanne, trackbot
19:05:28 [JAllan]
zakim, make minutes
19:05:28 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', JAllan
19:05:37 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:05:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:07:06 [JAllan]
present+ simon, jan,
19:07:12 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:07:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:08:30 [JAllan]
present: simon, jan, jim, jeanne, greg, kelly
19:08:35 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:08:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:14:27 [JAllan]
zakim, please part
19:14:27 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were [Microsoft], Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, [IPcaller], sharper
19:14:27 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:14:42 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:14:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:15:25 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
19:15:25 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-actions.rdf :
19:15:25 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to add the above test to 2.1.4 example. Jenny's web-based wordprocessing app uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She runs it hosted in her user agent, which also uses Ctrl+f to open a find dialog box. She opens a hotkey reassignment feature in the user agent, and sets Shift+Ctrl+f to be the new hotkey for the find dialog box in her wordprocessing app. [1]
19:15:25 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/03/01-ua-irc#T18-52-44