16:49:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:49:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/28-RDB2RDF-irc
16:49:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:49:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
16:49:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:49:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
16:49:08 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:49:08 <trackbot> Date: 28 February 2012
16:53:51 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:54:11 <Ashok> chair: Ashok
16:54:18 <Ashok> meeting: RDB2RDF
16:57:44 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
16:57:46 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:57:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:58:06 <Ashok> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:58:06 <Zakim> +Ashok; got it
16:58:14 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:59:08 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
16:59:37 <Zakim> +dmcneil
17:00:07 <Zakim> +boris
17:00:54 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:54 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:55 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
17:01:02 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
17:01:02 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
17:01:05 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:01:05 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:01:18 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
17:01:23 <Ashok> present: Ashok, David, Boris, Ted
17:01:28 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok (84%)
17:01:49 <Zakim> + +1.206.494.aaaa
17:02:13 <Ashok> present+: Richard, Nuno
17:02:16 <joerg> joerg has joined #RDB2RDF
17:02:18 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:02:18 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
17:02:20 <Zakim> +Ivan
17:02:25 <nunolopes> Zakim, who is here?
17:02:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ashok, dmcneil, boris, MacTed (muted), +1.206.494.aaaa, Ivan
17:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see joerg, cygri, nunolopes, dmcneil, juansequeda, boris, Ashok, Zakim, RRSAgent, LeeF, MacTed, ivan, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:02:38 <Ashok> present+: Ivan
17:02:41 <Zakim> +juansequeda
17:02:42 <nunolopes> Zakim, cygri is aaaa
17:02:42 <Zakim> sorry, nunolopes, I do not recognize a party named 'cygri'
17:02:54 <Ashok> present+: Juan
17:03:20 <MacTed> Zakim, aaaa is cygri
17:03:20 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:03:27 <MacTed> Zakim, nunolopes is with cygri
17:03:27 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
17:03:39 <cygri> macted, nunolopes, aaaa isn't actually us
17:03:44 <MacTed> d'oh!
17:04:09 <Zakim> +??P32
17:04:24 <cygri> scribenick: cygri
17:04:28 <cygri> scribe: Richard Cyganiak
17:04:45 <joerg> Zakim, ??P32 is joerg
17:04:45 <Zakim> +joerg; got it
17:04:49 <cygri> topic: Admin
17:04:50 <Ashok> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-RDB2RDF-minutes.html 
17:05:11 <MacTed> cygri - aaaa was the line Zakim recognized when your call pinged in...  *shrugs*
17:05:21 <boris> +1
17:05:28 <cygri> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:05:56 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:05:56 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:05:57 <cygri> topic: Party
17:05:57 <Zakim> +EricP
17:06:19 <cygri> ashok: we are now officially CR. thank you all for the hard work. this is a significant step
17:06:41 <cygri> ... specs are considered complete and correct. focus on test cases and implementation report
17:06:58 <cygri> topic: Implementation report and Test Cases
17:07:16 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:07:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ashok, dmcneil, boris, MacTed (muted), cygri, Ivan, juansequeda, joerg, EricP
17:07:18 <Zakim> cygri has cygri, nunolopes
17:07:30 <cygri> ashok: test cases should be complete by the end of this month
17:07:38 <cygri> ... can we get an update?
17:07:57 <cygri> boris: i improved the RDFa markup in TC documents
17:08:18 <cygri> ... got some feedback from Juan to update some test cases
17:08:27 <cygri> ... i added some test cases on R2RML data errors
17:08:45 <cygri> ... i need to add more test for data errors
17:08:47 <cygri> ... group needs to check the current set
17:09:46 <cygri> juansequeda: i went through all test cases
17:09:52 <cygri> ... our tool now passes all of them
17:10:08 <cygri> ... i want to see more data errors and tests where mappings are wrong
17:10:48 <cygri> ... our charter says something about making R2RML mappings for schemas like wordpress
17:11:05 <cygri> ... we only have very small examples now
17:11:20 <cygri> ... we should do something on larger schemas, maybe northwind
17:11:29 <cygri> ... i know this would imply more work
17:11:49 <ivan> q+
17:11:59 <boris> q+
17:13:07 <ericP> i wonder if there's any way to get some interested users to create a note for e.g. northwind
17:13:31 <ericP> cygri: need to define how good the test cases have to be to give us confidence to go to REC
17:13:35 <juansequeda> +q to ask how are we on coverage 
17:13:52 <ericP> ... don't need to cover everything, but we want to demonstrate interop
17:14:05 <Zakim> +Souri
17:14:26 <Ashok> present+: Souri
17:14:30 <ericP> ... most important input is from implementors
17:14:38 <ericP> ... so far, i've been eyeballing the tests
17:14:55 <ericP> ... while juan has been running the tests
17:15:00 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:15:04 <ericP> q+
17:15:32 <Ashok> ack next
17:15:41 <cygri> cygri: i'm inclined to listen to feedback from implementers. if they think we need more tests, then we should probably make more
17:15:56 <cygri> ivan: things like the wordpress mapping shouldn't be put on the critical path
17:16:01 <seema> seema has joined #rdb2rdf
17:16:14 <cygri> ... but would be great if someone could do it and demonstrate it
17:16:19 <juansequeda> I can work on the wordpress r2rml 
17:16:20 <Ashok> ack next
17:16:28 <Zakim> +Seema
17:16:48 <Ashok> Juan, that would be great!
17:16:51 <cygri> boris: we are time constrained. need feedback from implementers mostly
17:16:59 <boris> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_TC
17:17:00 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_TC
17:17:04 <Ashok> present+: Seema
17:17:09 <cygri> juansequeda: how are we doing on R2RML test coverage?
17:17:29 <cygri> boris: we cover most if not all language features. data errors not yet so well
17:17:47 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:17:47 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
17:18:00 <cygri> juansequeda: i'd like to see test cases for weird corner cases that may be unexpected but are allowed
17:18:02 <cygri> q+
17:18:23 <Ashok> ack next
17:18:24 <Zakim> juansequeda, you wanted to ask how are we on coverage
17:18:57 <cygri> ericP: someone could do northwind etc when we're languishing in PR and do as WG Note
17:19:25 <Ashok> ack next
17:19:31 <cygri> ... i agree that weird corner cases make good test cases. in sparql, we always encoded questions "does it do this or that" as a test case
17:19:54 <ericP> cygri: +1 to corner cases
17:20:12 <Ashok> Richard:  Would be good to have some weird corner case tests
17:20:14 <ericP> ... how do we generate them?
17:20:38 <ericP> ... when folks ask questions, we can capture those in test cases
17:21:11 <ericP> ... i can think of a few corners of the spec
17:21:12 <MacTed> q+ to ask whether matrix was built from TCs, or TCs built to fill matrix
17:21:13 <ericP> q+
17:21:31 <ericP> ... is there anything we can do to cover these edges better?
17:21:44 <cygri> ack me
17:22:27 <cygri> juansequeda: predicate-object maps can have multiple predicate and object maps. that's a bit confusing. i will write an email on that
17:22:57 <Ashok> ack next
17:22:58 <Zakim> MacTed, you wanted to ask whether matrix was built from TCs, or TCs built to fill matrix
17:23:21 <cygri> MacTed: are the test cases built to fill the matrix, or is the matrix extended to document the test cases?
17:23:33 <cygri> boris: the matrix came first
17:23:53 <cygri> MacTed: so where do the negative test cases fit on the matrix?
17:23:54 <cygri> q+
17:24:10 <Ashok> ack next
17:24:12 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:24:12 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:24:33 <cygri> ericP: conformance testing is not our job. we need to demonstrate that well-meaning implementers can understand the spec and produce interoperable specs
17:25:00 <cygri> ... nevertheless, in SPARQL we went pretty far down the path of systematically covering everything
17:25:31 <cygri> ... just capturing questions didn't suffice to fill in the matrix
17:25:51 <Ashok> ack next
17:26:55 <ericP> cygri: as with HTML5, every conformance statement can beget a test
17:27:19 <Souri> minor spelling error: In the Matrix, replace "Foreing" with "Foreign"
17:27:38 <ericP> +1 to thanking boris
17:27:40 <cygri> juansequeda: thanks boris for this hard work!
17:27:46 <cygri> +1 to that!
17:27:50 <Ashok> +1
17:27:53 <cygri> q+
17:28:03 <ericP> .RESOLVED: thanks boris
17:30:04 <MacTed> http://troels.arvin.dk/db/rdbms/#functions-concat
17:30:16 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:30:16 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
17:31:07 <cygri> juansequeda: how do we deal with vendor dialects in the tests?
17:31:49 <boris> so, || is the standard
17:32:07 <Ashok> Ted dsicussses the link he posted above
17:32:24 <Ashok> q?
17:33:05 <Souri> From a website: The concatenation operator used by Oracle is ||, which is also ANSI-compliant.
17:33:05 <ericP> cygri: where possible, we should write R2RML mappings which work in as many places as possible
17:33:56 <Ashok> ack next
17:33:58 <nunolopes> I previously ran the tests with mysql by changing server properties
17:34:05 <nunolopes> as follows:
17:34:08 <nunolopes> [mysqld]
17:34:08 <nunolopes> sql-mode="PIPES_AS_CONCAT,ANSI_QUOTES" 
17:34:08 <nunolopes> default-storage_engine=innodb
17:34:14 <nunolopes> might not be desirable
17:34:21 <cygri> ack me
17:34:52 <ericP> ... for the cases where that's not possible, e.g. concatonation, we could write instructions with search and replace to produce vendor-specific SQL
17:35:04 <ericP> ericP: not easy for concat
17:35:15 <dmcneil> +q
17:35:23 <boris> q to ask Juan if || is the only vendor specific issue?
17:35:59 <ericP> cygri: we only have to cover the [syntax of the] tests which we've written
17:36:06 <cygri> juansequeda: will we freeze the test cases and make a zip?
17:36:12 <cygri> q+ to say just do hg clone
17:36:31 <Ashok> Boris:  There is a zip file with the test cases
17:37:13 <cygri> juansequeda: some tests use fixed schema name. that's difficult for running the tests, we can't assume that the user has this schema
17:37:30 <cygri> boris: i don't remember why we have that. i could remove it
17:37:39 <nunolopes> +1
17:38:36 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/#R2RMLTC0002d
17:38:57 <juansequeda> Select ('Student' || "ID" ) AS StudentId
17:38:57 <juansequeda>                             , "ID"
17:38:58 <juansequeda>                             , "Name"
17:38:58 <juansequeda>                          from "SA.Student"
17:40:02 <juansequeda> CREATE TABLE "Student" (
17:40:02 <juansequeda> "ID" INTEGER,
17:40:03 <juansequeda> "Name" VARCHAR(15)
17:40:03 <juansequeda> );
17:40:03 <juansequeda> INSERT INTO "Student" ("ID", "Name") VALUES(10,'Venus');
17:41:06 <Souri> we need to have test cases with explicit schema name and table name
17:41:14 <Ashok> q?
17:41:51 <MacTed> fix *appears* to be replacing all TestCase instances of "SA.Student" with "Student"
17:41:51 <MacTed> table creation scripts need to be checked
17:42:05 <Souri> q+
17:42:22 <Ashok> ack next
17:43:34 <Ashok> ack next
17:43:36 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say just do hg clone
17:43:52 <ericP> cygri: re: freezing tests or downloading them as a zip, i think it would be reasonable to point to the hg repo
17:44:16 <cygri> ack me
17:44:23 <dmcneil> I think the test cases should have queries that comply with SQL 2008, and these queries should be identified as being http://www.w3.org/ns/r2rml#SQL2008
17:45:00 <ericP> ... if folks want to use them locally, they can $(hg clone http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests/)
17:45:44 <ericP> +1 to using hg
17:45:55 <ericP> q+
17:46:05 <boris> +1 to keep both
17:46:09 <Ashok> ack next
17:46:17 <cygri> q+, i think i spotted a bug
17:46:48 <cygri> q+
17:47:21 <cygri> Souri: there should be more variation in test cases, e.g., quote some column identifiers and don't quote others
17:47:37 <cygri> ... also, there should be at least one test case that has a schema name to make this clear
17:48:26 <cygri> ericP: while we're still changing tests, we should tell people to use mercurial to reduce the risk of them running outdated tests
17:48:33 <cygri> ... we can freeze a zip at the end
17:48:53 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/#R2RMLTC0002d
17:49:15 <ericP> cygri: looking at <above>, some of the IDs are quoted and some are not
17:49:33 <ericP> ... id and name are quoted while studentid is not
17:49:51 <cygri> rr:column "ID"
17:49:55 <cygri> rr:column "\"ID\""
17:51:00 <Souri> q+
17:51:15 <ericP> q+ to ask if i may update <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests/raw-file/tip/D017-I18NnoSpecialChars/directGraph.nt>
17:51:55 <cygri> ack me
17:52:02 <Ashok> ack next
17:52:03 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask if i may update <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests/raw-file/tip/D017-I18NnoSpecialChars/directGraph.nt>
17:52:08 <ericP> s/_:a <成分#植物名.使用部> <植物/名-しそ.使用部-葉> .
17:52:16 <ericP>  /_:a <成分#ref-植物名.使用部> <植物/名-しそ.使用部-葉> ./
17:52:23 <Souri> that looks chinese to me
17:52:37 <ericP> in fact, it's CLK
17:52:42 <cygri> cygri: if identifiers are quoted in the CREATE TABLE statement or SQL query, then they also need to be quoted in the R2RML literal, so we end up with "\"xxx\""
17:53:08 <Ashok> ack next
17:54:36 <juansequeda> Souri, are you talking about R2RMLTC0002b
17:54:51 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:54:51 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
17:55:13 <ericP> cygri: this is yet another corner case (note for tests)
17:55:19 <ericP> ... the SQL standard says that:
17:55:34 <ericP> ... .. quoted identifiers are case-sensitive
17:55:46 <ericP> ... .. unquoted identifiers are case-insenstive
17:56:16 <cygri> cygri: ID == Id, "ID" != "Id", "ID" == ID, "ID" == Id
17:56:28 <Souri> ack me
17:56:31 <cygri> ericP, it's standard SQL
17:56:45 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Feb/0085.html
17:57:46 <cygri> ericP, see here for some details: http://www.w3.org/TR/r2rml/#dfn-column-name
17:57:55 <cygri> Topic: AOB
17:58:15 <cygri> ivan: see email above re Adobe's DM-related patent
17:58:27 <Zakim> -Souri
17:58:30 <Zakim> -Seema
17:58:31 <Zakim> -EricP
17:58:31 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:58:33 <Zakim> -joerg
17:58:34 <Zakim> -Ashok
17:58:36 <Zakim> -cygri
17:58:40 <Zakim> -dmcneil
17:58:41 <Zakim> -MacTed
17:58:41 <cygri> ashok: we will have a call next week
17:58:45 <cygri> ashok: adjourned
17:58:55 <cygri> RRSAgent: draft minutes
17:58:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/28-RDB2RDF-minutes.html cygri
17:59:09 <cygri> RRSAgent: make logs public
17:59:23 <juansequeda> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Test_Results
18:00:11 <juansequeda> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdb2rdf-tests/raw-file/0e41f966d036/ts1.zip
18:01:07 <MacTed> http://answers.semanticweb.com/questions/12817/how-does-us-patent-8037108-affect-the-w3c-specifications-of-rdb2rdf
18:01:15 <MacTed> apropos of Ivan's last...
18:01:37 <Ashok> yes, Ted?
18:01:54 <Ashok> zakim, whoo was on the telephone?
18:01:54 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Ashok.
18:02:11 <Ashok> zakim, who was on the phone?
18:02:11 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Ashok.
18:02:31 <Ashok> rrsagent, make logs public
18:02:45 <Ashok> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:02:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/28-RDB2RDF-minutes.html Ashok
18:02:45 <Zakim> -juansequeda
18:02:47 <Zakim> -boris
18:02:47 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
18:02:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Ashok, dmcneil, boris, MacTed, +1.206.494.aaaa, Ivan, juansequeda, cygri, nunolopes, joerg, EricP, Souri, Seema
18:04:49 <Ashok> present+: Joerg, EricP
18:05:17 <Ashok> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:05:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/28-RDB2RDF-minutes.html Ashok
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