17:57:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:57:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-irc
17:57:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:57:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
17:57:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:57:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
17:57:58 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:57:58 <trackbot> Date: 23 February 2012
17:58:06 <kford> kford has joined #ua
17:58:08 <JAllan> rrsagent, set logs public
17:58:28 <JAllan> chair: jimallan, kellyford
18:00:37 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
18:00:44 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
18:01:03 <JAllan> regrets: jan
18:01:13 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
18:01:41 <JAllan> Agenda+ Discussion on guideline levels - Please, Please -- Fill Out
18:01:43 <JAllan> SPREADSHEET, so we can make decisions on Thursday.  there are 115 SC
18:01:44 <JAllan> to add your thoughts (numbers) to. Also, add implementations if you
18:01:46 <JAllan> have them.      https://docs.google.com/a/tsbvi.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:01:47 <JAllan> Agenda+ Review other proposals sent to list
18:01:49 <JAllan> Agenda+ actions/issues
18:02:47 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
18:03:07 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:03:15 <kford> zakim, microsoft is kford
18:03:15 <Zakim> +kford; got it
18:03:20 <kford> zakim, agenda?
18:03:20 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:03:21 <Zakim> 1. Discussion on guideline levels - Please, Please -- Fill Out [from JAllan]
18:03:21 <Zakim> 2. Review other proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
18:03:21 <Zakim> 3. actions/issues [from JAllan]
18:03:29 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
18:04:20 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
18:05:10 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
18:05:11 <Zakim> +Jeanne
18:07:32 <sharper> zakim, code?
18:07:32 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
18:07:42 <Zakim> +??P5
18:07:47 <sharper> zakim, ??P5 is sharper
18:07:47 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
18:07:54 <sharper> present+ Harper_Simon
18:15:31 <JAllan> discussion on the A11y Professional Association
18:17:43 <kford> zakim, take up item 1
18:17:43 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discussion on guideline levels - Please, Please -- Fill Out" taken up [from JAllan]
18:17:58 <JAllan> scribe: JimAllan
18:18:21 <JAllan> zakim, open item 1
18:18:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discussion on guideline levels - Please, Please -- Fill Out" taken up [from JAllan]
18:18:22 <kford> agenda ?
18:19:24 <JAllan> kf: question: will we be able to do the spreadsheet? or should we try something else?
18:19:37 <JAllan> ...why is this taking so long.
18:20:12 <JAllan> gl: 115 rows,by 13 columns and comments....its a lot. SS is difficult
18:20:32 <JAllan> ...doesn't work well for me, just navigating.
18:21:36 <JAllan> kf: what can we do and call it success.
18:22:06 <JAllan> js: go down the implementation column and see what we know about browsers
18:23:10 <JAllan> https://docs.google.com/a/tsbvi.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:23:41 <JAllan> gl: implementation was also hard. created test files.
18:23:53 <JAllan> topic: UA SC implementations
18:24:03 <Greg> I'd find the columns more intuitive if they were specific disabilities rather than the current terms, which I find vague.
18:25:31 <JAllan> js: when Kim and I talked the implementation was to be off the top of head. not so detailed
18:26:01 <JAllan> kp: getting the numbers down and if there is a cluster of @@ then we can talk about those.
18:26:59 <JAllan> ... column heads were to be functional rather than disability specific.
18:28:46 <JAllan> kf: start with Principle 2
18:29:42 <JAllan> topic: 211 keyboard operation
18:30:02 <JAllan> js: basically everyone does this.
18:30:44 <JAllan> gl: there are bugs. what about mobile browsers (those designed specifically for touch screen)
18:31:17 <JAllan> kp: ipad configuring swipes and multiple touches.
18:31:45 <JAllan> js: need to get a rough count. easy to do or rough count. not discuss and get detailed.
18:31:54 <JAllan> kp: generally implemented
18:33:04 <JAllan> kf: are there any features that are not keyboard accesible
18:33:28 <JAllan> every browser has some features that are not keyboard accessible.
18:34:06 <JAllan> js: is this something that is easy and should be an A or very hard and be a AAA
18:35:01 <JAllan> topic: 212 keyboard focus
18:35:29 <JAllan> generally true
18:39:39 <JAllan> topic: 213 viewport navigation
18:40:11 <JAllan> generally true
18:40:38 <JAllan> topic: 214 specify preferred keystrokes
18:42:34 <JAllan> keyconfig addon for FF change binding
18:42:45 <JAllan> perhaps greasemonky
18:44:46 <JAllan> sh: why looking only at browsers. if a given function can be demonstrated in some other application, then it is possible and should be counted in implementaions.
18:45:43 <JAllan> kf: MS word is a browser, and can do lots of things we are looking for.
18:46:22 <JAllan> topic: no keyboard trap
18:47:53 <JAllan> generally supported, FF has issues
18:48:10 <JAllan> topic: 216 separate selection from activation
18:48:48 <JAllan> FF does well (at one time) , IE does not, Jaws does
18:49:27 <JAllan> topic: 217 follow text keyboard conventions
18:49:33 <JAllan> 5
18:50:22 <JAllan> topic: 218 efficient keyboard access
18:53:41 <JAllan> generally true, check by looking at the UI to see if underscore and shortcut keys
18:55:02 <JAllan> could be rewritten to be 'indicate keyboard shortcuts'
18:55:13 <JAllan> kf: leave it.
18:55:28 <JAllan> topic: 219 override bindings
18:58:02 <JAllan> gl: this is similar to 214. confusing. 
18:58:27 <JAllan> ... perhaps change to "author supplied user interface controls" to clarify.
18:59:22 <JAllan> 214 is author supplied, 219 is UI controls
19:00:26 <JAllan> Action: JAllan to compare keyboard section with jb keyboard section from 2 years ago
19:00:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-714 - Compare keyboard section with jb keyboard section from 2 years ago [on Jim Allan - due 2012-03-01].
19:01:54 <JAllan> js: does the IER match?
19:02:11 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
19:02:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:05:12 <Greg> We need to move the Elaine example from 2.1.4 to 2.1.9. Kim will write a sentence for 2.1.4 Intent and/or example of author supplied UI.
19:05:56 <jeanne> action: jeanne to move the Elaine example from 2.1.4 to 2.1.9.  
19:05:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-715 - Move the Elaine example from 2.1.4 to 2.1.9.   [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-03-01].
19:06:02 <jeanne> action: Kim will write a sentence for 2.1.4 Intent and/or example of author supplied UI.
19:06:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-716 - Will write a sentence for 2.1.4 Intent and/or example of author supplied UI. [on Kimberly Patch - due 2012-03-01].
19:07:23 <kford> kford has joined #ua
19:07:38 <JAllan> topic: 221 provide sequential navigation
19:07:44 <Zakim> -Jeanne
19:09:01 <JAllan> generally done by everyone. exception for mobile. FF does not do object/embed navigation
19:09:50 <JAllan> topic: 222 nave between viewports
19:10:10 <JAllan> s/nave/nav
19:11:50 <JAllan> generally everyone, except mobile devices
19:14:02 <JAllan> topic: 223 defaul nav
19:14:20 <JAllan> generally all
19:14:41 <JAllan> topic: 224 wrap navigation
19:17:06 <JAllan> no one knows of a UA that does this
19:17:35 <mhakkien> mhakkien has joined #ua
19:18:03 <mhakkien> better late than never (i hope)
19:18:14 <JAllan> topic: 231 direct nav to impt elements
19:19:01 <Zakim> + +1.609.734.aaaa
19:19:23 <KimPatch> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc#gid=0
19:19:24 <KimPatch> Cell R81
19:20:36 <JAllan> JAllan has joined #ua
19:21:32 <Greg> rrsagent, make minutes
19:21:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-minutes.html Greg
19:27:31 <JAllan> JAllan has joined #ua
19:28:07 <Greg> Chrome with ChromeVox add-on provides sequential navigation to selected types of structural or operable elements (e.g. next/previous h2).
19:28:26 <Greg> Which SC does that fall into? Is that structural navigation or sequential navigation with filtering?
19:28:49 <Greg> (Thanks to Mark for info on ChromeVox.)
19:28:57 <JAllan> discussion about direct navigation and sequential navigation of important elements.
19:29:13 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
19:29:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:31:36 <Greg> Definition of Important Elements: This specification intentionally does not identify which "important elements" must be navigable because this will vary by specification. What constitutes "efficient navigation" may depend on a number of factors as well, including the "shape" of content (e.g. sequential navigation of long lists is not efficient) and desired granularity (e.g. among tables,...
19:31:38 <Greg> ...then among the cells of a given table). Refer to the Implementing document [Implementing UAAG 2.0] for information about identifying and navigating important elements. @@ Editors' Note: Update links
19:31:46 <JAllan> mh: what is an element? html element, and combination of HTML div span, etc with a "role" (aria)
19:32:39 <JAllan> kp: structural and operable elements
19:34:43 <kford> Action: KFord Resolve direct and sequential navigation to important elements 2.3.1 and 2.2.1.
19:34:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-717 - Resolve direct and sequential navigation to important elements 2.3.1 and 2.2.1. [on Kelly Ford - due 2012-03-01].
19:42:59 <Zakim> - +1.609.734.aaaa
19:43:00 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
19:43:10 <Zakim> -sharper
19:43:13 <sharper> sharper has left #ua
19:43:27 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
19:43:29 <JAllan> rrsagent, make minutes
19:43:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:43:39 <JAllan> zakim, who is here
19:43:40 <Zakim> JAllan, you need to end that query with '?'
19:43:43 <JAllan> zakim, who is here?
19:43:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jim_Allan, kford
19:43:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see JAllan, mhakkien, kford, jeanne, KimPatch, Zakim, RRSAgent, Greg, trackbot
19:45:18 <JAllan> rrsagent, please part
19:45:18 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-actions.rdf :
19:45:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JAllan to compare keyboard section with jb keyboard section from 2 years ago [1]
19:45:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-irc#T19-00-26
19:45:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeanne to move the Elaine example from 2.1.4 to 2.1.9.   [2]
19:45:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-irc#T19-05-56
19:45:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kim will write a sentence for 2.1.4 Intent and/or example of author supplied UI. [3]
19:45:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-irc#T19-06-02
19:45:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KFord Resolve direct and sequential navigation to important elements 2.3.1 and 2.2.1. [4]
19:45:18 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/23-ua-irc#T19-34-43