IRC log of html-wg on 2012-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:01:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-wg-irc
17:01:14 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:14 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be html_wg
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ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
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Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
17:01:17 [trackbot]
Date: 16 February 2012
17:01:20 [rubys]
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17:01:38 [Zakim]
+glenn
17:01:52 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
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+[Microsoft.a]
17:02:02 [Julian]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:02:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, +1.619.846.aaaa, Julian, glenn, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a]
17:02:09 [Julian]
Zakim, mute me
17:02:09 [Zakim]
Julian should now be muted
17:02:13 [adrianba]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
17:02:13 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
17:02:21 [hober]
Zakim, aaaa is me
17:02:21 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
17:02:24 [paulc_]
zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
17:02:24 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
17:02:28 [Zakim]
+Sam
17:03:37 [paulc_]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JanMar/0015.html
17:04:00 [Judy]
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topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, February 16
17:04:06 [rubys]
paulc: none
17:04:08 [rubys]
scribe: rubys
17:04:15 [MikeSmith]
Zakim, call Mike
17:04:15 [Zakim]
ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
17:04:17 [Zakim]
+Mike
17:04:30 [Judy]
zakim, code?
17:04:30 [Zakim]
the conference code is 4865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Judy
17:04:34 [rubys]
topic: New Issues This Week
17:04:37 [rubys]
issue-204?
17:04:37 [trackbot]
ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
17:04:37 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
17:04:48 [rubys]
paulc: split off issue 30
17:04:54 [rubys]
issue-205?
17:04:54 [trackbot]
ISSUE-205 -- Define what author guidance and/or methods should be provided to those that wish to create accessible text editors using canvas as a rendering surface. -- open
17:04:54 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/205
17:05:07 [Zakim]
+Judy
17:05:14 [rubys]
paulc: split off issue 131, simplifying that issue
17:05:21 [rubys]
issue-80?
17:05:21 [trackbot]
ISSUE-80 -- document conformance and device dependent display of title attribute content -- open
17:05:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80
17:05:30 [rubys]
reopened: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0105.html
17:05:59 [rubys]
paulc: one tracker request (escallation on a non-last call item)
17:06:09 [paulc_]
http://w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=TrackerRequest
17:06:17 [Zakim]
+mjs
17:06:18 [rubys]
paulc: chairs are prioritizing last-call items first, we have not processed this request
17:06:33 [rubys]
topic: Items Closed Last Week
17:06:52 [rubys]
judy: I have comments on 204
17:06:58 [rubys]
paulc: go ahead
17:07:35 [rubys]
judy: Janina and I are requesting a co-ordination call with you (paulc) on the split of issue-30 and the timing
17:08:26 [rubys]
paulc: can you put a link in the minutes to the concerns?
17:08:48 [rubys]
judy: it would be valuable to have a call
17:09:03 [rubys]
paulc: I will check my calendar
17:09:29 [rubys]
judy: if you aren't available, I would appreciate meeting with at least one of the co-chairs
17:09:51 [rubys]
paulc: send us an email, and we will find a slot that works
17:10:09 [rubys]
topic: Items Closed Last Week
17:10:18 [rubys]
issue-172?
17:10:18 [trackbot]
ISSUE-172 -- restore <rb> as an optional element -- open
17:10:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/172
17:10:31 [rubys]
issue-183?
17:10:31 [trackbot]
ISSUE-183 -- Enhance and simplify the time element -- open
17:10:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/183
17:10:36 [rubys]
issue-184?
17:10:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-184 -- Add a data element -- open
17:10:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/184
17:10:59 [rubys]
three call for alternate proposals above closed on Feb 11
17:11:03 [rubys]
issue-131?
17:11:03 [trackbot]
ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- open
17:11:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
17:11:06 [rubys]
issue-179?
17:11:06 [trackbot]
ISSUE-179 -- {audio,video} require param child (or equivalent) -- open
17:11:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/179
17:11:19 [rubys]
both call for proposals closed Feb 11
17:11:46 [rubys]
paulc: this agenda doesn't cover items that closed yesterday (or today)
17:12:13 [rubys]
paulc: if there are no change proposals, expect the issue to be closed. If there are no counters, expect a call for consensus
17:12:26 [rubys]
topic: Items Closing This Week
17:12:28 [rubys]
issue-193?
17:12:28 [trackbot]
ISSUE-193 -- Remove CSS example that promotes inaccessible content -- open
17:12:28 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/193
17:12:35 [rubys]
issue-194?
17:12:35 [trackbot]
ISSUE-194 -- Provide a mechanism for associating a full transcript with an audio or video element. -- open
17:12:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/194
17:12:42 [rubys]
issue-195?
17:12:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-195 -- Enhance http request generation from forms -- raised
17:12:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/195
17:12:48 [rubys]
issue-196?
17:12:48 [trackbot]
ISSUE-196 -- Define user agent http response handling behaviour -- raised
17:12:48 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/196
17:12:53 [rubys]
issue-197?
17:12:53 [trackbot]
ISSUE-197 -- Accept attribute should allow file extensions in addition to the current allowed values -- open
17:12:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/197
17:13:10 [rubys]
paulc: all the above closed yesterday
17:13:18 [rubys]
issue-182?
17:13:18 [trackbot]
ISSUE-182 -- Advice in spec about annotations promotes inaccessible content -- open
17:13:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/182
17:13:21 [rubys]
issue-185?
17:13:21 [trackbot]
ISSUE-185 -- Drop the pubdate attribute -- open
17:13:21 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/185
17:13:29 [rubys]
issue-188?
17:13:29 [trackbot]
ISSUE-188 -- Text tracks in HTML should be defined in a way agnostic of the specific caption format -- open
17:13:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/188
17:13:33 [rubys]
issue-189?
17:13:33 [trackbot]
ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
17:13:33 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
17:13:40 [rubys]
issue-198?
17:13:40 [trackbot]
ISSUE-198 -- Ensure innerHTML and related APIs are subject to the W3C patent policy -- raised
17:13:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/198
17:13:45 [rubys]
issue-199?
17:13:45 [trackbot]
ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- raised
17:13:45 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
17:13:55 [rubys]
issue-200?
17:13:55 [trackbot]
ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- raised
17:13:55 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
17:14:02 [rubys]
issue-201?
17:14:02 [trackbot]
ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
17:14:02 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
17:14:04 [rubys]
issue-202?
17:14:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-202 -- Missing alt should not be considered conforming in the presence of figcaptions over 50 words in length -- raised
17:14:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/202
17:14:09 [rubys]
issue-203?
17:14:09 [trackbot]
ISSUE-203 -- All Media Elements should have the ability to have both short and longer textual descriptions associated to the element -- raised
17:14:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/203
17:14:29 [rubys]
paulc: the above closes today
17:14:31 [Judy]
With reference to agendum # 1 above, and the request to meet w/ Paul or another Co-Chair regarding procedural concerns about new issue #204, background is in Text Subteam minutes, with notes following "30: Longdesc" http://www.w3.org/2012/02/14-text-minutes.html#item01
17:15:12 [rubys]
topic: Items Closing Next Week
17:15:22 [rubys]
issue-187?
17:15:25 [trackbot]
ISSUE-187 -- Document conformance has to be stable over the time -- open
17:15:25 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/187
17:15:36 [rubys]
issue-190?
17:15:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-190 -- Replace poor coding example for figure with multiple images -- open
17:15:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/190
17:15:44 [rubys]
issue-191?
17:15:44 [trackbot]
ISSUE-191 -- Replace/complement <ins> and <del> elements by a cleaner wysiwyg-safe attribute-based solution -- open
17:15:44 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/191
17:15:47 [rubys]
issue-192?
17:15:47 [trackbot]
ISSUE-192 -- title attribute definition does not match reality -- open
17:15:47 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/192
17:15:54 [rubys]
paulc: these four close Feb 23
17:16:07 [rubys]
topic: New Calls this week
17:16:09 [rubys]
issue-80?
17:16:10 [trackbot]
ISSUE-80 -- document conformance and device dependent display of title attribute content -- open
17:16:10 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80
17:16:31 [rubys]
paulc: this was reopened, and as we got a change proposal, we have issued a call for alternate or counter proposals closing March 14
17:16:40 [rubys]
issue-131?
17:16:40 [trackbot]
ISSUE-131 -- Should we add a caret location API to canvas, or is the focus API sufficient? -- open
17:16:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/131
17:16:42 [JVoracek]
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17:17:10 [rubys]
paulc: we have proposals, so we have issued a call for alternate or counters, also closing on march 14th
17:17:14 [rubys]
issue-158?
17:17:15 [trackbot]
ISSUE-158 -- HTML4's content-model for <object> should continue -- open
17:17:15 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/158
17:17:20 [Zakim]
+??P6
17:17:24 [J_Voracek]
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17:17:28 [rubys]
paulc: also closed on March 14th
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17:17:35 [rubys]
issue-204?
17:17:35 [trackbot]
ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
17:17:35 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
17:17:47 [rubys]
paulc: we granted until March 10th to provide a proposal
17:17:53 [rubys]
issue-205?
17:17:53 [trackbot]
ISSUE-205 -- Define what author guidance and/or methods should be provided to those that wish to create accessible text editors using canvas as a rendering surface. -- open
17:17:53 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/205
17:18:09 [rubys]
paulc: call for alternate or counter proposals closes march 14th
17:18:17 [janina]
zakim, who's here?
17:18:17 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Radhika_Roy, hober, Julian (muted), glenn, [Microsoft], adrianba, Sam, Mike, Judy, mjs, ??P6
17:18:19 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has paulc
17:18:19 [Zakim]
On IRC I see janina, J_Voracek, JVoracek, Judy, rubys, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc_, adrianba, Julian, MFoladare, myakura, shepazu, dveditz, drublic, davidb, anne, glenn, ArtB, nonge__,
17:18:19 [Zakim]
... tantek_, krijnh, mjs, arronei, tantek, Hixie, [tm], gavin, MikeSmith, rektide, Jedi, webben, heycam|away, johndrinkwater, ed, pingo, Dashiva, jgraham, inimino, CIA-1, trackbot,
17:18:22 [Zakim]
... lgombos, hiro, hober, hsivonen, gsnedders, paul___irish, Philip, jmb
17:18:25 [rubys]
topic: New Surveys this week
17:18:28 [rubys]
paulc: there are none
17:18:37 [rubys]
topic: Decisions this week
17:18:40 [plh]
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17:18:41 [rubys]
paulc: there are none
17:18:51 [rubys]
topic: Other Business
17:18:58 [rubys]
http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/02/openweb-weekly-27.html
17:19:10 [rubys]
paulc: this is nearly two weeks old, there may be a more recent one
17:19:19 [rubys]
topic: re-open request for issue 31
17:19:29 [rubys]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0139.html
17:19:34 [plh]
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17:19:50 [rubys]
paulc: we originally could not find new information, and the a11y task force is working on a revised version
17:20:35 [rubys]
janina: we have a strong interest in having this taken up again; the proposal has significantly been beefed up.
17:21:11 [rubys]
janina: unclear that this was dealt with appropriately originally
17:22:12 [rubys]
janina: we are now pointing to the original decision to justify the reopening
17:22:38 [paulc_]
Revised request is in: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/movealt
17:22:42 [rubys]
janina: we should have a email to the chairs and wg by monday
17:23:18 [rubys]
topic: Request to Reconsider Meta Generator Alt Exception
17:23:34 [rubys]
paulc: the chairs have reviewed this request and will be responding today
17:23:44 [rubys]
topic: i18n WG position on Issue-172 "restore <rb> as an optional element"
17:23:49 [rubys]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0103.html
17:23:55 [rubys]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Feb/0197.html
17:24:26 [rubys]
paulc: chairs want to make it clear what the next status is
17:24:34 [rubys]
topic: Change proposal reviews
17:24:42 [rubys]
issue-30?
17:24:42 [trackbot]
ISSUE-30 -- Should HTML 5 include a longdesc attribute for images -- open
17:24:42 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/30
17:24:53 [rubys]
paulc: we have having a dialog with Laura on 30
17:24:59 [rubys]
issue-170?
17:24:59 [trackbot]
ISSUE-170 -- make URIs valid link relations -- open
17:24:59 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/170
17:25:12 [rubys]
paulc: we are having dialogs with the authors of the proposals on 170
17:25:16 [rubys]
issue-134?
17:25:16 [trackbot]
ISSUE-134 -- Provide tablist and tab states for menu and command elements respectively -- open
17:25:16 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134
17:25:44 [rubys]
paulc: the chairs are having dialogs with the various authors and the WG can expect more
17:26:34 [rubys]
janina: Thanks for 134, I am concerned about recent developments around longdesc, this is not just Laura's proposal but a TaskForce backed proposal
17:27:02 [rubys]
janina: we are disappointed that a split off happened based on ARIA, it would have been helpful to have been coordinating that more closely
17:27:03 [adrianba_]
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17:27:34 [rubys]
paulc: janina is repeating judy's concerns about issue 204
17:28:03 [Judy]
q+
17:28:13 [rubys]
paulc: the feedback on 30 was to put the material relevant to the change proposal in the proposal itself
17:28:20 [rubys]
ack judy
17:28:35 [rubys]
judy: there appears to have been changes in the advice over time over this
17:29:08 [rubys]
judy: in the past, we were advised to put in links; perhaps we could get more uniform guidance?
17:30:28 [rubys]
paulc: the underlying principle is to help the CP authors to make their case as possible; in this case we found some arguments that we thought the author could use to make their proposal stronger; if the authors don't wish to make their proposal stronger, that's their choice.
17:31:07 [rubys]
judy: I'm hearing that you prefer all of the text to be a single page?
17:32:04 [rubys]
paulc: we review each on their merits, and in this case we thought this particular proposal would be improved by making this specific text into the base text.
17:32:48 [rubys]
paulc: any other business to raise?
17:32:58 [rubys]
topic: Chair and Scribe for next meeting
17:33:05 [rubys]
paulc: Maciej likely will be the chair
17:33:09 [rubys]
glenn: I can scribe
17:33:23 [rubys]
topic: Adjournment
17:33:31 [rubys]
rrsagent, publish minutes
17:33:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/16-html-wg-minutes.html rubys
17:33:37 [Zakim]
-Mike
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-Julian
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-glenn
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-adrianba
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-Sam
17:33:44 [Zakim]
-Judy
17:33:45 [Zakim]
-??P6
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-hober
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-Radhika_Roy
17:33:48 [janina]
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-mjs
17:33:55 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
17:33:55 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()12:00PM has ended
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Attendees were Radhika_Roy, +1.619.846.aaaa, Julian, glenn, adrianba, hober, paulc, Sam, Mike, Judy, mjs
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