17:49:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
17:49:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-irc
17:49:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:49:52 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
17:49:54 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
17:49:54 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
17:49:55 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
17:49:55 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2012
17:50:05 <JAllan> rrsagent, set logs public
17:50:20 <JAllan> Chair: Kelly Ford, Jim Allan
17:50:28 <JAllan> regrets: Mark
17:51:24 <JAllan> Agenda+ Discussion on guideline levels
17:51:25 <JAllan> agenda+ review mobile wiki page
17:51:27 <JAllan> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones -
17:51:29 <JAllan> Must finish
17:51:30 <JAllan> Agenda+ Review other proposals sent to list
17:51:32 <JAllan> Agenda+ actions/issues
17:51:44 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #ua
17:52:56 <JAllan_> JAllan_ has joined #ua
17:59:02 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:59:17 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:59:24 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
18:00:41 <Zakim> +Jeanne
18:01:35 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
18:01:46 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #ua
18:02:44 <Zakim> + +1.562.256.aaaa
18:03:45 <JAllan> zakim, aaaa is really Wayne
18:03:45 <Zakim> +Wayne; got it
18:07:30 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
18:07:47 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
18:07:47 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
18:09:41 <JAllan> zakim, open item 1
18:09:41 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discussion on guideline levels" taken up [from JAllan]
18:09:45 <JAllan> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:11:05 <Zakim> +??P13
18:11:14 <sharper> zakim, ??P13 is sharper
18:11:14 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
18:11:15 <JAllan> group working on logistics - gaining access to the spreadsheet
18:11:21 <JAllan> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:12:31 <jeanne> Jeanne notes that the spreadsheet is in Google docs for collaborative purposes and snapshots of it will be moved to public space. 
18:15:44 <jeanne> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0048.html
18:15:52 <JAllan> js: this is based on the previous priority listing
18:16:39 <JAllan> ... we discussed levels last week. Kim and Jeanne reviewed. Looking a issues from user side (severity of the issue), how many functional requirements are met
18:18:17 <JAllan> ... also looking from vendor side, how feasible, how deterministic, and where implemented (browser and extensions)
18:21:28 <JAllan> js: thanks to greg for the extraction script, to make the spreadsheet
18:23:07 <JAllan> ... Col A-D from the draft. E is Score, F-M user barriers, N-Q vendor 
18:23:25 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:23:51 <JAllan> g: no mouse - includes blind user
18:25:21 <JAllan> gl: speech user, would be in F, G, and H, may inflate score...some disabilites may disproportionally impact score.
18:25:44 <JAllan> ... skeptical at the moment about the whole scoring mechanism. 
18:26:58 <JAllan> ... one type of disability is absolutely blocked will get a 5, if some other SC inconveniences a group of users...their score may outweigh the 5
18:27:16 <JAllan> kp: 5 is a show stopper, and gets a flag.
18:28:09 <JAllan> wd: these numbers will give us a qualitative view of whats going on in the SC. need to start somewhere. then it becomes judgement
18:28:59 <JAllan> gl: we are reinventing the wheel. in other sciences there are documented methods for doing this kind of thing, but we are not knowledgeable.
18:29:42 <JAllan> kp: we are 'experts' in our area, this is a way to get shared knowledge on the page, base on our judgements and experiences.
18:30:50 <JAllan> gl: score has 2 columns (average and high), if a 5 in high, then average is 5 regardless of other scores in other columns.
18:31:05 <JAllan> kf: use as a starting point.
18:31:34 <kford> kford has joined #ua
18:31:37 <JAllan> ... useful to winnow the A to a more reasonable number.
18:32:49 <kford> zakim, agenda?
18:32:49 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
18:32:50 <Zakim> 1. Discussion on guideline levels [from JAllan]
18:32:50 <Zakim> 2. review mobile wiki page [from JAllan]
18:32:50 <Zakim> 3. Review other proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
18:32:50 <Zakim> 4. actions/issues [from JAllan]
18:33:09 <JAllan> scribe: jallan
18:33:32 <JAllan> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:33:34 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
18:33:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
18:35:03 <kford> WD: We have this problem universally in disability studies.  The field lacks precise research on the impact of various barries and exact strategies for removal.
18:35:15 <kford> WD: In ways we are about as good as we can get.
18:35:38 <JAllan> sh: explains how rubrics used in the university. what we are looking at is anecdotal, don't have real studies to back up our opinions 
18:35:39 <kford> WD: One of the things we are trying to do is make a standard in the absence of the level of info you get in clinical trials and such.
18:35:55 <JAllan> SH: getting more systematic is a good thing.
18:35:56 <kford> SH: Yes, I agrree.  But don't get to hung about on the method.
18:36:36 <kford> SH: We can modify the system if we find it to be incorrect. Get on with doing it and see if we agree.  if we don't, we can modify.
18:36:46 <Greg> From Wikipedia: "An actuary is a business professional who deals with the financial impact of risk and uncertainty... Actuaries mathematically evaluate the likelihood of events and quantify the contingent outcomes in order to minimize losses, both emotional and financial, associated with uncertain undesirable events."
18:37:02 <kford> SH: We know something that are correct will emerge and we can go forward in revising.
18:37:29 <kford> JS: My major objective was to be transparent and give outsiders an idea of how the levels were arrived at for each criteria.
18:38:20 <kford> JA: The other thing that struck me was that a lot have impact on mobile devices, like no keyboard, no mouse.
18:38:37 <kford> KP: Yes.
18:39:03 <kford> WD: I was noticing that the categories were like no screen, no mouse.  If you have limited of these but not total absence do you rank lower?
18:39:16 <kford> KP: no. And we should ask if there are any missing categories.
18:39:58 <kford> WD: Thge dependency on audio as well as visual is important for cognative and visual disabilities.
18:40:23 <kford> WD: Goes over scenarios where these populations use various modes.
18:41:08 <kford> JA: Having limited screen would be good.
18:42:54 <JAllan> JAllan has joined #ua
18:43:47 <kford> Folks go over categories in more detail.
18:45:19 <kford> GL: Could we add some examples.
18:47:22 <kford> KFord: If we distribute outside the gorup agree that we define and give examples.
18:47:57 <kford> s/gorup/group/
18:48:08 <kford> JS: Going to go through examples.
18:48:38 <kford> See spreadsheet for ratings.
18:48:44 <kford> JS going over 1.1.
18:49:11 <kford> For sign language thought this was a 5 becuase if sign language track existed, would be critical for user to see.  Same for audio.
18:50:23 <kford> Group going over limited audio definition.
18:53:06 <kford> KP: Hopefully if you pick any kind of user at all, be it a regular user on a noisy subway or someone with a disability you can use this to help assess.
18:53:21 <kford> GL: Can we add comments or another row here to add some explanations.
18:53:57 <JAllan> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&hl=en_US&pli=1#gid=0
18:58:01 <kford> Group talks a bit more about doc structure.
19:15:02 <kford> Group talking more about document and columns and such.
19:19:43 <JAllan> zakim, agenda?
19:19:43 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
19:19:44 <Zakim> 1. Discussion on guideline levels [from JAllan]
19:19:44 <Zakim> 2. review mobile wiki page [from JAllan]
19:19:44 <Zakim> 3. Review other proposals sent to list [from JAllan]
19:19:44 <Zakim> 4. actions/issues [from JAllan]
19:25:14 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
19:25:20 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 2
19:25:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "review mobile wiki page" taken up [from JAllan]
19:26:41 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones
19:26:53 <jeanne> action: Wayne to write an executive summary. 
19:26:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-713 - Write an executive summary.  [on Wayne Dick - due 2012-02-16].
19:28:15 <jeanne> edit action-713 Write an executive summary of the UAAG-Mobile wiki report http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Applying_UAAG_to_Mobile_Phones
19:32:22 <kford> Group talking about how to get progress on mobile doc.
19:35:03 <Zakim> -Wayne
19:35:05 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
19:35:05 <Zakim> -sharper
19:35:07 <Zakim> -Jeanne
19:35:07 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:35:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
19:35:07 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
19:35:10 <sharper> sharper has left #ua
19:35:12 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:35:13 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
19:35:13 <Zakim> Attendees were Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, +1.562.256.aaaa, Wayne, Kim_Patch, sharper, [Microsoft]
19:38:09 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:38:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
19:40:38 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:40:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
19:42:12 <kford> Present:Jim, Kim, Simon, Wayne, Kelly, Greg, Jeanne
19:42:16 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:42:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
19:45:17 <kford> zakim, please part
19:45:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
19:45:26 <kford> rrsagent, make minutes
19:45:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-minutes.html kford
19:45:56 <kford> rrsagent, aplease part
19:45:56 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'aplease part', kford.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
19:46:01 <kford> rrsagent, please part
19:46:01 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-actions.rdf :
19:46:01 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wayne to write an executive summary.  [1]
19:46:01 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ua-irc#T19-26-53