16:43:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:43:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-irc
16:43:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:43:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
16:43:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:43:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
16:43:50 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:43:50 <trackbot> Date: 31 January 2012
16:44:01 <mhausenblas> trackbot, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
16:44:01 <trackbot> Sorry, mhausenblas, I don't understand 'trackbot, this will be SW_RDB2RDF'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
16:44:13 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
16:44:13 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
16:44:20 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0088.html
16:44:23 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
16:44:28 <mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas 
16:44:36 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:44:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:44:41 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:54:36 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:54:58 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
16:57:57 <boris> boris has joined #rdb2rdf
16:58:47 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:58:54 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:59:01 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:59:01 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
16:59:34 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:59:34 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:59:35 <Zakim> +Ivan
17:00:18 <ericP> Zakim, please dial ericP-office
17:00:18 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
17:00:19 <Zakim> +EricP
17:00:33 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
17:00:34 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
17:00:46 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:00:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, Ivan, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas
17:00:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see boris, Ashok, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, ivan, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:00:48 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:53 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
17:00:53 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
17:00:58 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
17:01:00 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 
17:01:00 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
17:01:02 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
17:01:08 <mhausenblas> present+ Ashok
17:01:09 <Zakim> +juansequeda
17:01:14 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
17:01:17 <Zakim> +dmcneil
17:01:21 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
17:01:27 <mhausenblas> present+ David
17:01:34 <mhausenblas> present+ Nuno
17:01:38 <mhausenblas> present+ Richard
17:01:42 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:01:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, Ivan, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas, juansequeda, dmcneil
17:01:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see dmcneil, nunolopes, boris, Ashok, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, cygri, ivan, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:01:46 <Zakim> mhausenblas has mhausenblas, nunolopes
17:01:56 <mhausenblas> Zakim, cygri is with me
17:01:56 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:02:02 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:02:36 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
17:02:42 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:02:48 <juansequeda> +1
17:02:53 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2012/01/24-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:03:04 <mhausenblas> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0085.html
17:03:35 <Seema> Seema has joined #rdb2rdf
17:04:00 <mhausenblas> Topic: Towards CR
17:04:07 <mhausenblas> q?
17:04:23 <Zakim> +seema
17:04:24 <mhausenblas> Ashok: Have not yet started the W3CM communication 
17:04:29 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
17:04:31 <ericP> q+ to reflect Ralph's advice
17:04:47 <mhausenblas> Ashok: waiting for final URLs for R2RML and DM from the Editors
17:04:51 <mhausenblas> q?
17:04:55 <Zakim> + +2714aaaa
17:05:14 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is Marcelo
17:05:14 <Zakim> +Marcelo; got it
17:05:19 <mhausenblas> present+ Marcelo
17:05:28 <mhausenblas> Ashok: How long should CR phase be?
17:05:52 <mhausenblas> ... looks like we have implementations ready by mid 2012
17:06:00 <mhausenblas> Ivan: we should work backwords
17:06:28 <mhausenblas> Michael: charter ends in 09/2012
17:06:56 <mhausenblas> Ivan: we should make sure that we go PR around 06/2012
17:07:11 <mhausenblas> ... maybe even 05/2012 for SemTech
17:07:22 <mhausenblas> q?
17:07:28 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:08:04 <mhausenblas> q?
17:08:11 <mhausenblas> acc ericP 
17:08:13 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
17:08:14 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
17:08:14 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to reflect Ralph's advice
17:08:29 <mhausenblas> damn
17:08:37 <mhausenblas> VoIP problem again
17:08:44 <mhausenblas> Ashok can you take over chairing pls
17:09:00 <mhausenblas> Ivan can you take over scribing please
17:09:11 <mhausenblas> we will be back in a few minutes
17:09:17 <Zakim> + +34.60.062.aabb
17:09:19 <Marcelo> Marcelo has left #rdb2rdf
17:09:41 <cygri_> cygri_ has joined #rdb2rdf
17:09:41 <ivan> zakim, aabb is Boris
17:09:41 <Zakim> +Boris; got it
17:09:42 <Zakim> +??P21
17:09:43 <Zakim> -Boris
17:09:52 <cygri_> zakim, ??P21 is cygri
17:09:52 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:09:57 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:10:29 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:10:40 <Zakim> +Souri
17:11:19 <Ashok> Ralph and PLH often act in Director's role
17:12:02 <Ashok> They like to see links to the test cases and implementation reports
17:12:19 <Ashok> Michael:  We have a Wiki
17:12:41 <Ashok> s/Ralph/Eric: Ralph/
17:13:13 <Ashok> Michael:  I can create an implementation report pointing to the Wiki
17:13:28 <Zakim> +Boris
17:13:54 <Marcelo> Marcelo has left #rdb2rdf
17:14:25 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:14:36 <Ashok> Michael:  I can create an implementation report as an Editor's Draft
17:15:17 <ericP> +1
17:15:28 <Ashok> Richard:  Some of the material can be auto-generated
17:15:30 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Use http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations as basis
17:16:08 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
17:16:10 <Ashok> Michael: For both R2RML and DM
17:16:10 <Zakim> -cygri
17:16:24 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
17:16:24 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:16:33 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 
17:16:33 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
17:16:35 <mhausenblas> q?
17:16:43 <ericP> +1
17:16:44 <cygri> +1
17:16:47 <nunolopes> +1
17:16:50 <ivan> +1
17:16:53 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Use http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations as basis
17:17:02 <Souri> +1
17:17:29 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Use http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/ as basis for TC
17:17:39 <Ashok> Eric:  They also want to see a pointer to "How to Test"
17:18:10 <Ashok> Richard:  Does this document become a note?
17:18:19 <Ashok> Ivan:  Not necessarily
17:18:28 <mhausenblas> Michael: I'd prefer a WG Note
17:18:46 <Ashok> ... if it is a stable document on the website, that's good enough
17:19:52 <cygri> i too have a preference for making the TCs a WG Note
17:20:00 <Ashok> Eric:  We need to talk about the test cases
17:20:08 <Ashok> ... and how to test
17:21:24 <Ashok> Eric:  Create a new page with ptrs to test cases, hoiw to test and the results?
17:21:44 <Ashok> +1
17:22:31 <Ashok> s/hoiw/how/
17:22:38 <boris> section 4
17:23:57 <MacTed> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/#how-to-run-the-tests
17:24:14 <MacTed> @@@ This section shall contain some hints on how to actually run the test suite, upload the results for generating implementation reports for implementers. 
17:24:22 <mhausenblas> q?
17:24:42 <Ashok> Richard:  Will there be a test harness?
17:24:51 <MacTed> Moreover, the section describes the inputs/outputs of the testing ... 
17:24:56 <MacTed> q+
17:25:10 <boris> q+
17:25:46 <mhausenblas> q?
17:26:20 <mhausenblas> ack MacTed 
17:26:31 <mhausenblas> Richard: agree with ericP 
17:26:52 <cygri> q+
17:26:54 <Ashok> Ted:  We need to just fill out section 4 which has placeholders
17:26:57 <mhausenblas> MacTed: seems like the sec 4 is already doing this in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
17:26:59 <mhausenblas> q?
17:27:22 <mhausenblas> ack boris 
17:27:42 <Ashok> ... don't like the idea of a static implementation report.  It will get out of date.
17:27:59 <ericP> i don't see what factoring out the harness and submission from the test cases has to do with whether the implementation report is static
17:28:18 <mhausenblas> q?
17:28:21 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
17:28:38 <Ashok> Boris:  Talks about what we need to do re. test cases, how to run and where to send implementation reports
17:29:35 <ericP> +1 to the test cases and the harness having at the least different lifetimes
17:30:28 <Marcelo> Marcelo has joined #rdb2rdf
17:30:29 <Ashok> Richard:  Argues for a formal implementation report ... just needed to get out of CR.  Not to last forever.
17:31:27 <Ashok> Michael:  Much of the implmenation report can be auto-generated
17:32:22 <Ashok> Richard:  We create a new Wiki page that talks about test cases, what test harness may be available ...
17:32:45 <mhausenblas> q?
17:33:08 <Zakim> -Boris
17:33:33 <Ashok> Richard:  Some implemetors may produce a test harness, may like to share with others
17:33:54 <mhausenblas> q?
17:34:03 <Ashok> s/implemetors/implementors/
17:34:25 <Zakim> +Boris
17:34:30 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Create http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports and explain how to handle EARL, and link to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
17:34:52 <mhausenblas> q?
17:35:02 <ericP> +1
17:35:13 <nunolopes> +1
17:35:20 <cygri> +1
17:35:45 <Ashok> Ashok:  EARL -> Evaluation Report Language
17:35:57 <MacTed> +1
17:36:03 <boris> +1
17:36:13 <mhausenblas> RESOLUTION: Create http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports and explain how to handle EARL, and link to http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/test-cases/
17:37:29 <Ashok> Next steps:  Editors will alert WG that final versions of docs are ready
17:37:41 <Ashok> ... Ashok will then start the CR process
17:37:53 <Zakim> -dmcneil
17:38:20 <Ashok> Ashok:  CR will end on April 30
17:39:49 <mhausenblas> Richard: we need to interoperable implementation for PR, right?
17:40:01 <Zakim> + +1.636.544.aacc
17:40:08 <mhausenblas> ... question is also what does interoperable mean
17:40:10 <mhausenblas> q?
17:40:29 <mhausenblas> Michael: Boris, can you please fill in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports ...?
17:40:29 <Ashok> Ricard:  We need to meet our exit criteria
17:40:38 <Zakim> -juansequeda
17:40:41 <ericP> "This Candidate Recommendation is expected to advance to Proposed Recommendation no earlier than 12 April 2012." -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-xml-c14n2-20120124/
17:40:59 <mhausenblas> Michael: ... and also remove the respective sections from TC doc?
17:41:04 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks a lot, Boris!
17:41:22 <Zakim> +juansequeda
17:41:23 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:41:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:42:14 <ivan> q+
17:42:19 <mhausenblas> q?
17:42:20 <juansequeda> q+ 
17:42:25 <Ashok> Eric:  Tests are simple ... 
17:42:40 <Ashok> ... can get graph equivalence code from Jena
17:42:59 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
17:43:19 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Boris to fill  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports 
17:43:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-193 - Fill  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports  [on Boris Villazón-Terrazas - due 2012-02-07].
17:43:21 <mhausenblas> q?
17:43:26 <cygri> q+
17:43:48 <Ashok> Ivan:  Grapg equivalence may be too much ... processor may produce additional output
17:43:49 <ericP> q+ to propose that implementations need a minimal mode per SPARQL tests
17:44:05 <Ashok> s/Grapg/Graph/
17:44:23 <mhausenblas> ack juansequeda 
17:44:35 <Ashok> ... Better may be to run SPARQL query on the output
17:44:44 <mhausenblas> q?
17:44:48 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
17:45:05 <mhausenblas> s/run SPARQL query/run SPARQL ASK query
17:45:09 <mhausenblas> q?
17:45:11 <MacTed> Interop....
17:45:12 <MacTed> 1. 2 implementations given same DBMS, produce similar G-snaps, both including at least xyz triples verified by SPARQL ASKs
17:45:12 <MacTed> 2. 2 implementations given same R2RML + same DBMS, produce similar G-snaps, both including at least xyz triples verified by SPARQL ASKs
17:45:31 <cygri> zakim, mute MacTed
17:45:31 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:45:40 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
17:45:40 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
17:45:58 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's making noise?
17:46:09 <Zakim> mhausenblas, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (17%), mhausenblas (78%), EricP (4%)
17:46:28 <mhausenblas> q?
17:46:31 <mhausenblas> ack ericP 
17:46:31 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to propose that implementations need a minimal mode per SPARQL tests
17:46:53 <Ashok> Richard:  Implementations may have a stricy mode where they do not generate any metadata
17:47:07 <Ashok> s/stricy/strict/
17:47:34 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who's here?
17:47:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see MacTed, Ivan, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, seema, Marcelo, Souri, mhausenblas, Boris, +1.636.544.aacc, juansequeda
17:47:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see Marcelo, Souri, cygri, Seema, dmcneil, nunolopes, boris, Ashok, juansequeda, Zakim, RRSAgent, mhausenblas, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, betehess, iv_an_ru, trackbot, ericP
17:47:38 <Zakim> mhausenblas has cygri, nunolopes
17:48:14 <mhausenblas> present+ Souri
17:48:20 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:48:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:48:26 <ivan> q+
17:48:37 <dmcneil> we addressed this when we were doing the final review of the R2RML spec, right?
17:48:46 <mhausenblas> q?
17:48:49 <Ashok> Discussion on whether we need a strict mode
17:48:49 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
17:48:56 <dmcneil> as I recall we defined the R2RML output data set strictly
17:49:08 <dmcneil> but implementors can expose other datasets
17:49:48 <cygri> [[
17:49:49 <cygri> The output dataset must not contain any other RDF triples or named graphs besides these. However, R2RML processors may provide access to datasets that contain additional triples or graphs beyond those in the output dataset, such as inferred triples or provenance information.
17:49:50 <cygri> ]]
17:49:58 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#generated-rdf
17:51:56 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Hausenblas to update  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations with reports from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0067.html
17:51:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Update  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations with reports from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0067.html [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2012-02-07].
17:52:10 <Ashok> Eric:  Someone could write a normalizer
17:53:44 <ericP> note that SPARQL 1.0 CONSTRUCT tests and SPARQL Update tests faced this issue
17:54:03 <Zakim> -Boris
17:54:07 <Ashok> Michael:  Do we need to resolve this right now?
17:54:54 <Ashok> Ashok:  Are we happy with the test cases?
17:55:14 <Zakim> +Boris
17:55:18 <Ashok> Michael:  We need to discuss this in the coming couple of weeks
17:56:18 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/CR-xml-c14n2-20120124/#sotd
17:59:06 <mhausenblas> ACTION: ericP to propose a more detailed wording concerning i18y requirements
17:59:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Propose a more detailed wording concerning i18y requirements [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-02-07].
17:59:54 <Souri> q+ to point out couple of minor issues in the diagrams in current R2RML Editor's Draft
18:00:27 <Ashok> Eric:  There is the percnt encoding issue on the DM that Richard raised
18:00:31 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
18:00:31 <Zakim> Souri, you wanted to point out couple of minor issues in the diagrams in current R2RML Editor's Draft
18:00:54 <ivan> q+
18:01:03 <Zakim> - +1.636.544.aacc
18:01:12 <cygri> example: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#triples-map
18:01:52 <Ashok> Souri: there are 2 diagrams predmap, objmap, ... ->  change * to + ?
18:02:24 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
18:02:31 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks, Boris!
18:02:33 <Ashok> Richard:  Boris will have to sort this out ... I don't care
18:02:57 <Ashok> Ivan:  When will we get the final document?
18:03:19 <mhausenblas> Richard: Ready when boris updates diagrams
18:03:24 <Ashok> Richard:  Boris has to update diagram
18:04:08 <mhausenblas> Boris: Can do it now
18:04:08 <Ashok> Ivan:  After CR we can make editorial changes but let's not plan on them
18:04:24 <mhausenblas> Michael: So, for R2RML Thu should be possible
18:04:28 <Zakim> -Marcelo
18:04:59 <Ashok> Ashok:  So, Thursday for both documents?
18:05:11 <mhausenblas> Eric: DM should be possible by Thu if we reach a resolution on IRI issues
18:05:20 <Ashok> Eric:  Depends on if we can resolve URI and I18N issues
18:05:38 <Zakim> -Souri
18:05:40 <Zakim> -seema
18:05:41 <mhausenblas> [meeting adjourned]
18:05:41 <Zakim> -Ivan
18:05:43 <Zakim> -Boris
18:05:44 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
18:05:46 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
18:06:08 <Marcelo> Marcelo has left #rdb2rdf
18:06:35 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/R2RML_Test_Cases_v1#I18NnoSpecialChars
18:07:07 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf
18:07:31 <Zakim> -juansequeda
18:20:56 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
18:20:56 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:20:56 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MacTed, Ivan, EricP, Ashok_Malhotra, mhausenblas, nunolopes, juansequeda, dmcneil, cygri, seema, +2714aaaa, Marcelo, +34.60.062.aabb,
18:20:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:20:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-minutes.html trackbot
18:20:59 <Zakim> ... Boris, Souri, +1.636.544.aacc
18:21:00 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:21:00 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-actions.rdf :
18:21:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Boris to fill  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Submitting_Implementation_Reports  [1]
18:21:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-43-19
18:21:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Hausenblas to update  http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations with reports from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0067.html [2]
18:21:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-51-56
18:21:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP to propose a more detailed wording concerning i18y requirements [3]
18:21:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/31-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-59-06