IRC log of rdf-wg on 2012-01-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:12:56 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/25-rdf-wg-irc
- 15:12:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 15:12:58 [Zakim]
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- 15:13:00 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 73394
- 15:13:00 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 47 minutes
- 15:13:01 [trackbot]
- Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
- 15:13:01 [trackbot]
- Date: 25 January 2012
- 15:16:40 [danbri]
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- 15:57:09 [FabGandon]
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- 15:57:17 [ivan_]
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- 15:57:51 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
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- +Scott_Bauer
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- -Scott_Bauer
- 15:58:16 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
- 15:58:16 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Scott_Bauer
- 15:58:32 [Zakim]
- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
- 15:58:39 [Zakim]
- +gavinc
- 15:59:04 [Zakim]
- +cgreer
- 15:59:26 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 15:59:35 [AndyS1]
- zakim, ??P14 is me
- 15:59:35 [Zakim]
- +AndyS1; got it
- 15:59:40 [Zakim]
- +bhyland
- 16:00:19 [davidwood]
- Zakim, bhyland is me
- 16:00:19 [Zakim]
- +davidwood; got it
- 16:00:32 [davidwood]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 16:00:32 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, cgreer, AndyS1, davidwood
- 16:00:33 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see cgreer, ivan_, FabGandon, AndyS1, mdmdm, AndyS, danbri, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, ivan, mischat, cygri, gavinc_, manu, davidwood, manu1, trackbot, yvesr, NickH,
- 16:00:36 [Zakim]
- ... sandro, ericP
- 16:00:42 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software
- 16:01:21 [Zakim]
- +[Sophia]
- 16:01:21 [Zakim]
- +Eric
- 16:01:31 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 16:01:31 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 16:01:37 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 16:01:38 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 16:01:43 [FabGandon]
- zakim, [Sophia] is FabGandon
- 16:01:43 [Zakim]
- +FabGandon; got it
- 16:03:11 [ivan_]
- zakim, dial ivan-voip
- 16:03:16 [Zakim]
- ok, ivan_; the call is being made
- 16:03:20 [Zakim]
- +Ivan
- 16:03:52 [Zakim]
- +Scott_Bauer
- 16:05:09 [FabGandon]
- Scribe: Fabien Gandon
- 16:05:18 [FabGandon]
- ScribeNick: FabGandon
- 16:05:41 [zwu2]
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- 16:05:43 [davidwood]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 16:05:43 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see gavinc, cgreer, AndyS1, davidwood, MacTed (muted), FabGandon, Eric, Ivan, Scott_Bauer
- 16:05:45 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see zwu2, cgreer, ivan_, FabGandon, AndyS1, mdmdm, AndyS, danbri, Zakim, RRSAgent, MacTed, LeeF, mischat, cygri, gavinc_, manu, davidwood, manu1, trackbot, yvesr, NickH,
- 16:05:47 [zwu2]
- zakim, code?
- 16:05:47 [Zakim]
- ... sandro, ericP
- 16:05:49 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
- 16:05:55 [danbri]
- hi folks, regrets from me ... laptop too overwhelmed to run Skype right now (giant mysql job)
- 16:06:12 [davidwood]
- PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 18 Jan telecon:
- 16:06:12 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-01-18
- 16:06:33 [Zakim]
- +zwu2
- 16:06:36 [davidwood]
- Action item review:
- 16:06:36 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - item
- 16:06:36 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/pendingreview
- 16:06:36 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
- 16:06:37 [zwu2]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:06:37 [Zakim]
- zwu2 should now be muted
- 16:06:53 [AlexHall]
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- + +1.443.212.aaaa
- 16:07:40 [AlexHall]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 16:07:40 [Zakim]
- +AlexHall; got it
- 16:07:52 [Zakim]
- +Souri
- 16:08:08 [Guus]
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- +Guus
- 16:09:19 [swh]
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- 16:10:25 [Zakim]
- +LeeF
- 16:11:55 [davidwood]
- Topic: Reviewers for XSD 1.1?
- 16:12:12 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-1-20120119/ W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) 1.1 Part 1: Structures
- 16:12:12 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/ W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) 1.1 Part 2: Datatypes
- 16:12:27 [FabGandon]
- they moved to proposed Rec and affect RDF
- 16:12:46 [FabGandon]
- davidwood ... we need reviewers
- 16:13:06 [FabGandon]
- Iven: the first part does not impact us
- 16:13:15 [FabGandon]
- s/Iven/Ivan
- 16:13:54 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xmlschema-2-20041028/
- 16:14:04 [ericP]
- [[
- 16:14:05 [ericP]
- This second edition is not a new version, it merely incorporates the changes dictated by the corrections to errors found in the first edition as agreed by the XML Schema Working Group, as a convenience to readers. A separate list of all such corrections is available at http://www.w3.org/2001/05/xmlschema-errata.
- 16:14:11 [ericP]
- ]]
- 16:14:16 [FabGandon]
- davidwood: eg. of problems links between XMLLiteral and RDF Literals
- 16:14:22 [AndyS1]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-1-20120119/
- 16:15:09 [FabGandon]
- davidwood: we need to lood at XSD Strings
- 16:15:24 [ericP]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-1-20120119/#changes changes from schema 1.0 to 1.1
- 16:15:24 [FabGandon]
- s/lood/look
- 16:15:29 [AndyS1]
- and XSD decimal canonical form (FYI)
- 16:16:28 [ivan_]
- The changes URI is http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes
- 16:16:32 [FabGandon]
- ... we need someone to go through changes
- 16:16:43 [FabGandon]
- ericP: I can do it
- 16:17:23 [FabGandon]
- AlexHall: volonteer
- 16:17:43 [ivan_]
- -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes changes
- 16:17:59 [ivan_]
- q+
- 16:18:17 [FabGandon]
- proposed : "ACTION: ericP and AlexHall to review changes in W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD)"
- 16:18:17 [davidwood]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes
- 16:19:18 [gavinc_]
- AndyS1, http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#f-decimalCanmap !
- 16:19:25 [ericP]
- ACTION: ericP to review changes in W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes
- 16:19:26 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-135 - Review changes in W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-02-01].
- 16:19:35 [ericP]
- ACTION: AlexHall to review changes in W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes
- 16:19:35 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-136 - Review changes in W3C XML Schema Definition Language (XSD) -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/PR-xmlschema11-2-20120119/#changes [on Alex Hall - due 2012-02-01].
- 16:19:36 [FabGandon]
- Ivan: the changes in the datatypes may affect us too
- 16:19:59 [davidwood]
- I see "Conforming implementations may now support ·primitive· datatypes and facets in addition to those defined here."
- 16:20:49 [FabGandon]
- Ivan: there might be changes for instance in data comparison
- 16:21:10 [davidwood]
- " this allows float and double to treat positive and negative zero as distinct values, but nevertheless to treat them as equal for purposes of bounds checking" (!) :)
- 16:21:25 [davidwood]
- ^^ These things are important to end users, after all
- 16:21:41 [FabGandon]
- erciP: is there anyway for the structure to have an impact our data model ?
- 16:22:12 [FabGandon]
- Ivan: my opinion is that we are not affected by structure
- 16:23:06 [FabGandon]
- ... but the RDF semantics makes a selection of the datatype and this may have to be reviewed.
- 16:23:35 [davidwood]
- Topic: RDF-ISSUE-82 (TriG repeated graph iris)
- 16:24:28 [AndyS1]
- q+
- 16:24:35 [ivan_]
- q-
- 16:24:36 [FabGandon]
- gavinc_: consensus on the second option changing "merge" to "union", blank nodes with the same plabel are considered the same
- 16:25:34 [ScottB_]
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- 16:25:58 [FabGandon]
- ... no semantics for blank nodes between graphs with different labels
- 16:26:32 [FabGandon]
- ... inference graphs are kept different and are an example where same labels may mean same nodes
- 16:27:25 [FabGandon]
- ... no equivalent in RDF/XML or Turtle right now.
- 16:27:41 [MacTed]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:27:41 [Zakim]
- MacTed should no longer be muted
- 16:28:09 [AndyS1]
- ack me
- 16:28:33 [AndyS1]
- +1
- 16:28:35 [ericP]
- +1
- 16:28:38 [cgreer]
- +1
- 16:28:41 [ivan_]
- 1
- 16:28:43 [zwu2]
- +1
- 16:28:44 [LeeF]
- +1
- 16:28:45 [Guus]
- +1
- 16:28:47 [AlexHall]
- +1
- 16:28:47 [gavinc_]
- +1
- 16:28:48 [Souri]
- +1
- 16:28:54 [gavinc_]
- "In a TriG document graph statements with the same graph IRI should be
- 16:28:56 [gavinc_]
- unioned to form a single RDF Graph. Blank nodes in each graph
- 16:28:57 [gavinc_]
- statement with the same label are considered to be the same blank
- 16:28:59 [gavinc_]
- node."
- 16:29:03 [FabGandon]
- davidwood: any objection to the wording (strawpoll)
- 16:29:18 [MacTed]
- +1
- 16:29:31 [FabGandon]
- ... we have a consensus
- 16:30:08 [gavinc_]
- RESOLVE to close ISSUE-82 with the wording: "In a TriG document graph statements with the same graph IRI should be unioned to form a single RDF Graph. Blank nodes in each graph statement with the same label are considered to be the same blank node."
- 16:31:45 [davidwood]
- Topic: Named Graphs
- 16:31:48 [ericP]
- davidwood: +☮
- 16:32:27 [gavinc_]
- also on the wiki http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Example_of_Endorsement_Use_Case
- 16:32:38 [FabGandon]
- davidwood: starting with the endorsement use case
- 16:32:42 [AZ]
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- 16:33:38 [FabGandon]
- ... does anyone push this use case ?
- 16:34:03 [FabGandon]
- MacTed: this use case could become very important
- 16:34:45 [LeeF]
- We don't ourselves do this sort of endorsement today, nor do our customers.
- 16:34:56 [gavinc_]
- It is a current use case for Lex Machina, Inc :D
- 16:35:18 [davidwood]
- OK, good
- 16:35:21 [FabGandon]
- ... there is a difference between me asserting and me endorsing
- 16:36:12 [Zakim]
- +??P39
- 16:36:27 [AZ]
- zakim, ??P39 is me
- 16:36:27 [Zakim]
- +AZ; got it
- 16:36:40 [Zakim]
- -AZ
- 16:38:23 [Zakim]
- +AZ
- 16:41:14 [gavinc_]
- The hash system in my example DOES NOT require trusting much at all
- 16:41:48 [gavinc_]
- +q
- 16:42:15 [FabGandon]
- AndyS: controling the domain name of a graph name does ensure the trust i.e. there is a whole chain e.g. DNS
- 16:42:47 [ericP]
- i thought the point of this was to say "it's within..."
- 16:43:18 [FabGandon]
- ... the hash gives you stability / repeatability
- 16:43:55 [FabGandon]
- gavinc_: endorsing without hashing may not be very useful
- 16:44:32 [FabGandon]
- ericP: within your store you can rely on your architecture
- 16:45:27 [cgreer]
- q+
- 16:45:32 [gavinc_]
- -q
- 16:46:32 [FabGandon]
- AndyS: a lot of this can be done working with documents
- 16:46:51 [davidwood]
- ack cgreer
- 16:47:38 [FabGandon]
- cgreer: you don't want to endorse a graph that is merged with an other one.
- 16:48:31 [FabGandon]
- gavinc_: my example works because there is an intermediary doc
- 16:49:12 [FabGandon]
- ericP: can the provenance wg help here ?
- 16:49:46 [FabGandon]
- AndyS: no they are at the URI level
- 16:54:10 [FabGandon]
- davidwood: is the problem linked to the question of whether we name graphs with URI or not?
- 16:55:40 [FabGandon]
- ivan: the general mechanism is we have a URI and we have a predicate
- 16:55:59 [Guus]
- q+ to ask which mechanism
- 16:56:27 [Guus]
- +1 with Andy
- 16:57:14 [Guus]
- quints are out of scope, I would suggest
- 16:57:20 [davidwood]
- ack Guus
- 16:57:20 [Zakim]
- Guus, you wanted to ask which mechanism
- 16:58:26 [ericP]
- +1 to octs
- 16:58:55 [davidwood]
- -1 to octs :)
- 16:59:08 [FabGandon]
- gavinc_: we can adapt the syntax without making them quints
- 16:59:42 [AndyS1]
- { eg:sandro eg:endorses <g1>. <g1> a rdf:StaticGraphContainer. } <g1> { ... the triples I'm endorsing ... }
- 17:00:16 [ivan_]
- +1 to David
- 17:00:32 [AndyS1]
- { eg:sandro eg:endorses <g1>. <g1> a rdf:StaticGraphContainer. } <g1> { ... the triples I'm endorsing ... }
- 17:00:48 [LeeF]
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- 17:01:42 [AndyS1]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Jan/0021.html
- 17:02:09 [AndyS1]
- (sandro's message -- includes multiple designs)
- 17:04:02 [Guus]
- q+
- 17:04:37 [cgreer]
- RDF doesn't disallow inconsistent graphs (+1 Guus)
- 17:04:47 [FabGandon]
- ivan: one problem was when in OWL the types of merged containers are disjoint
- 17:04:56 [davidwood]
- ack Guus
- 17:05:15 [FabGandon]
- Guus: I'm interested in the easy syntax
- 17:06:29 [FabGandon]
- ... examples of syntax would help the discussion
- 17:07:37 [FabGandon]
- proposing : ACTION: Guus to write down an example of the syntaxes for the named graphs
- 17:08:33 [FabGandon]
- Ivan: we could publish a version of Turtle tomorrow
- 17:09:09 [FabGandon]
- ... without changing it too much
- 17:09:47 [FabGandon]
- ACTION: Guus to write down an example of the syntaxes for the named graphs
- 17:09:48 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-137 - Write down an example of the syntaxes for the named graphs [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-02-01].
- 17:10:34 [Guus]
- q+
- 17:10:59 [davidwood]
- ack Guus
- 17:10:59 [FabGandon]
- ivan: then we have to decide whether or not we modify the RDF semantics
- 17:12:14 [FabGandon]
- Guus: nobody has yet come up with a clear proposal to update the semantics
- 17:14:57 [Zakim]
- -gavinc
- 17:15:19 [FabGandon]
- ivan: we need at least to write down in plain english the definitions of the core primitives
- 17:15:48 [MacTed]
- +1 Ivan's summary, "Named Graph" is inherently ambiguous, and must be defined multiply, for different contexts
- 17:17:43 [LeeF]
- I think we may be kidding ourselves if we think we're gong to get high-interoperability with defining this stuff multiple ways
- 17:18:22 [Zakim]
- -AZ
- 17:18:23 [Zakim]
- -cgreer
- 17:18:29 [Zakim]
- -AlexHall
- 17:18:33 [Zakim]
- -Scott_Bauer
- 17:18:35 [AlexHall]
- AlexHall has left #rdf-wg
- 17:18:39 [Zakim]
- -zwu2
- 17:18:43 [davidwood]
- MacTed: Define named graphs both by typing URIs and also by using predicates.
- 17:18:44 [FabGandon]
- rrsagent, create minutes
- 17:18:44 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/25-rdf-wg-minutes.html FabGandon
- 17:19:24 [FabGandon]
- rrsagent, please make logs world-visible
- 17:19:42 [FabGandon]
- rrsagent, please publish the minutes
- 17:19:42 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/25-rdf-wg-minutes.html FabGandon
- 17:20:35 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 17:22:05 [FabGandon]
- what should I do with the URL http://www.w3.org/2012/01/25-rdf-wg-minutes.html to get the wiki version to be cleaned ?
- 17:22:24 [AndyS1]
- I'm not here
- 17:23:44 [Zakim]
- -Guus
- 17:25:24 [AndyS1]
- FabGandon - instructions for minutes - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0406.html
- 17:25:44 [AndyS1]
- (thx to LeeF)
- 17:29:21 [FabGandon]
- thx I do that.
- 17:30:11 [AndyS1]
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- 17:30:40 [Zakim]
- -AndyS1
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- -Ivan
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- -MacTed
- 17:32:22 [Zakim]
- -davidwood
- 17:32:41 [Zakim]
- -Souri
- 17:33:22 [Zakim]
- -FabGandon
- 17:35:48 [FabGandon]
- FabGandon has left #rdf-wg
- 17:38:23 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, Eric, in SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
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- SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
- 17:38:28 [Zakim]
- Attendees were gavinc, cgreer, AndyS1, davidwood, Eric, MacTed, FabGandon, Ivan, Scott_Bauer, zwu2, +1.443.212.aaaa, AlexHall, Souri, Guus, LeeF, AZ
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