15:53:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:53:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-irc
15:53:15 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:53:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
15:53:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
15:53:20 <trackbot> Date: 11 January 2012
15:53:43 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Jan/0002.html
15:53:50 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
15:53:56 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:54:05 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
15:54:08 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:54:14 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:54:36 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
15:54:41 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:59:44 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
16:00:23 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:30 <Zakim> +Addison_Phillips
16:00:31 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #i18n
16:00:55 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
16:00:59 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:01:01 <Zakim> +Richard.a
16:01:05 <Zakim> +??P9
16:01:18 <aphillip> zakim, ??P9 is matial
16:01:22 <Zakim> +matial; got it
16:01:27 <kojiishi> kojiishi has joined #i18n
16:01:33 <David> David has joined #I18n
16:02:22 <Zakim> + +49.302.389.5.aaaa
16:03:03 <Zakim> + +41.41.888.aabb
16:03:11 <Zakim> +??P16
16:03:20 <kojiishi> zakim, ??p16 is me
16:03:29 <Zakim> +kojiishi; got it
16:03:32 <aphillip> Topic: Minutes/Agenda
16:03:56 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
16:04:28 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:05:21 <aphillip> aphillip has joined #i18n
16:05:35 <aphillip> close ACTION-86
16:05:35 <trackbot> ACTION-86 Update ruby wiki and post to list closed
16:05:51 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:06:15 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:06:23 <GwynethM> GwynethM has joined #i18n
16:06:25 <aphillip> richard: spent a productive vacation
16:06:27 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/
16:06:37 <aphillip> ... now we have a lot more tests
16:06:46 <aphillip> ... links to w3c harness
16:06:51 <aphillip> ... with updated results and all
16:07:00 <aphillip> ... did some tests on lists and counters
16:07:00 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/list-style-type/results-list-style-type
16:07:06 <aphillip> richard: results page above
16:07:11 <aphillip> ... went through css lists
16:07:24 <aphillip> ... and created tests for each of the formats (the many international ones)
16:07:37 <aphillip> ... results don't show gecko's proprietary tag
16:07:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:07:56 <aphillip> richard: another thing is:
16:08:16 <aphillip> ... working on bidi tests that a community in israel is producing
16:08:28 <aphillip> ... aharon was worried about converting them to PHP
16:08:29 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/generate?test=bidi-html5-001&format=html5 ff
16:08:47 <aphillip> ... so wrote a script to take their files and convert to our normal tests 
16:08:56 <aphillip> ... only requires a few tweaks to their HTML
16:09:36 <aphillip> ... once aharon has reviewed this I will integrate to our test suite and w3c test harness and create initial results for them
16:09:45 <aphillip> ... a few more tests coming from aharon
16:10:16 <aphillip> Topic: <rb> tag in HTML5 (and other ruby fun)
16:10:49 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Rb
16:11:32 <aphillip> richard: tries to organize items by use case
16:11:38 <aphillip> ... lists pros and cons for each
16:11:48 <aphillip> ... used some materials from fantasai and koji
16:11:57 <aphillip> ... some text contributed by fantasai
16:12:05 <aphillip> ... sent email to ian hickson about it
16:12:12 <aphillip> .. got a response from him yesterday
16:12:28 <aphillip> ... basically "looks like we might get away without <rb> don't you think?"
16:12:39 <aphillip> richard: need to consider our response
16:12:47 <aphillip> ... and need to resolve by 14 january if possible
16:13:02 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: request extension from HTML WG to enable response
16:13:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Request extension from HTML WG to enable response [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-01-18].
16:13:24 <aphillip> richard: leif silli created a change request
16:13:47 <aphillip> richard: my opinion is: looks like as if we don't need <rb> for simple ruby 
16:13:51 <aphillip> ... except for one use case
16:14:00 <aphillip> ... which is fallback mechanisms
16:14:18 <aphillip> for jukugo/mono ruby
16:14:58 <aphillip> richard: could just get fallback dropped at end of <ruby> tag
16:15:07 <aphillip> richard: complex ruby needs <rb>
16:15:19 <aphillip> ... if "complex" means on both sides or...
16:15:46 <aphillip> ... two approaches to double-sided
16:16:04 <aphillip> ... either annotating base text with mono ruby on one side and group on the other
16:16:10 <aphillip> ... or could have mono on both sides
16:17:14 <David> zakim, mute me
16:17:14 <Zakim> sorry, David, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:19:32 <David> zakim, +41 is me
16:19:32 <Zakim> +David; got it
16:20:00 <David> zakim, mute me
16:20:00 <Zakim> David should now be muted
16:21:53 <aphillip> gwyneth: do we know what users/market expects?
16:22:04 <aphillip> ... what would make sense to people who use <ruby>
16:22:40 <aphillip> koji: I don't have a good sense for it at the moment
16:29:44 <aphillip> koji: prefer optional elements to pseudo elements in CSS
16:34:36 <aphillip> addison: rb's use is predicated on which model we use for complex ruby
16:35:20 <David> zakim, unmute me
16:35:20 <Zakim> David should no longer be muted
16:35:35 <aphillip> addison: think we need more input from community?
16:41:04 <aphillip> felix: contact murata-san because a lot of content in epub3 is likely to use ruby annotation
16:41:30 <aphillip> koji: discussed with JLTF
16:42:06 <aphillip> ... they aren't thinking about HTML5 per se, mostly they are professional typographers
16:42:46 <aphillip> richard: hajime implemented complex ruby, roland steiner did so for webkit
16:42:58 <aphillip> ... contact them
16:43:46 <r12a> ig, cjk, jlreq, murata, roland, hajime
16:44:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:46:07 <aphillip> ACTION: addison: write to IG and HTML5 list announcing discussion on i18n cjk list of ruby and complex ruby
16:46:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Write to IG and HTML5 list announcing discussion on i18n cjk list of ruby and complex ruby [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-01-18].
16:46:32 <aphillip> ... ten days
16:46:39 <aphillip> ... ask for two week delay
16:46:48 <aphillip> ... from HTML5 WG
16:47:35 <aphillip> ACTION: richard: contact individuals specifically about ruby issues asking for input (see minutes)
16:47:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Contact individuals specifically about ruby issues asking for input (see minutes) [on Richard Ishida - due 2012-01-18].
16:48:57 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:49:01 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/IncludeRB
16:49:19 <aphillip> richard: above link is leif silli's change proposal
16:50:08 <Zakim> -GwynethM
16:50:14 <Zakim> -fsasaki
16:50:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:50:16 <Zakim> -kojiishi
16:50:17 <Zakim> -matial
16:50:18 <Zakim> -David
16:50:26 <Zakim> -aphillip
16:52:53 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:52:53 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:52:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: request extension from HTML WG to enable response [1]
16:52:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-irc#T16-13-02
16:52:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: write to IG and HTML5 list announcing discussion on i18n cjk list of ruby and complex ruby [2]
16:52:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-irc#T16-46-07
16:52:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: contact individuals specifically about ruby issues asking for input (see minutes) [3]
16:52:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/11-i18n-irc#T16-47-35
16:52:56 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:52:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were aphillip, Richard.a, matial, +49.302.389.5.aaaa, fsasaki, +41.41.888.aabb, kojiishi, David, GwynethM
16:52:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n