IRC log of RDB2RDF on 2012-01-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:36:23 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF

16:36:23 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc

16:36:25 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

16:36:25 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF

16:36:27 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 7322733

16:36:27 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes

16:36:28 [trackbot]

Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference

16:36:28 [trackbot]

Date: 10 January 2012

16:45:34 [mhausenblas]

mhausenblas has joined #rdb2rdf

16:46:26 [mhausenblas]

trackbot, start telecon

16:46:28 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

16:46:30 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 7322733

16:46:30 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes

16:46:31 [trackbot]

Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference

16:46:31 [trackbot]

Date: 10 January 2012

16:46:42 [mhausenblas]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0001.html

16:46:48 [mhausenblas]

Chair: Michael

16:47:00 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Marcelo

16:47:04 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Boris

16:47:11 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Percy

16:47:16 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

16:47:16 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas

16:47:22 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, make logs public

16:48:20 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF

16:48:20 [Zakim]

ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes

16:53:06 [juansequeda]

juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf

16:58:38 [Zakim]

SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started

16:58:47 [Zakim]

+ +3539149aaaa

16:58:56 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aaaa is me

16:58:56 [Zakim]

+mhausenblas; got it

17:00:24 [Zakim]

+OpenLink_Software

17:00:32 [cygri]

cygri has joined #rdb2rdf

17:00:37 [MacTed]

Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

17:00:37 [Zakim]

+MacTed; got it

17:00:37 [mhausenblas]

present+ Michael

17:00:39 [MacTed]

Zakim, mute me

17:00:39 [Zakim]

MacTed should now be muted

17:00:43 [mhausenblas]

present+ Ted

17:00:53 [cygri]

zakim, i'm with mhausenblas

17:00:53 [Zakim]

+cygri; got it

17:00:59 [mhausenblas]

present+ Richard

17:00:59 [Ashok]

Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf

17:01:31 [seema]

seema has joined #rdb2rdf

17:01:43 [Zakim]

+ +575737aabb

17:01:52 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aabb is juansequeda

17:01:52 [Zakim]

+juansequeda; got it

17:01:52 [juansequeda]

zakime, aabb is me

17:01:58 [mhausenblas]

present+ Juan

17:02:17 [mhausenblas]

present+ Nuno

17:02:18 [Zakim]

+Ashok_Malhotra

17:02:27 [mhausenblas]

present+ Ashok

17:02:31 [dmcneil]

dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF

17:02:35 [ivan]

zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:02:35 [Zakim]

ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:02:37 [Zakim]

+Ivan

17:02:42 [nunolopes]

nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf

17:02:45 [mhausenblas]

present+ Ivan

17:02:52 [nunolopes]

Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas

17:02:52 [Zakim]

+nunolopes; got it

17:02:52 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, nunolopes is with me

17:02:54 [Zakim]

nunolopes was already listed in mhausenblas, mhausenblas

17:02:56 [Zakim]

+ +1.603.897.aacc

17:03:04 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aacc is seema

17:03:04 [Zakim]

+seema; got it

17:03:12 [mhausenblas]

present+ Seema

17:03:18 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

17:03:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas

17:03:45 [joerg]

joerg has joined #RDB2RDF

17:04:20 [mhausenblas]

scribenick: Ashok

17:04:32 [Zakim]

+ +1.314.394.aadd

17:04:43 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aadd is dmcneil

17:04:43 [Zakim]

+dmcneil; got it

17:04:47 [mhausenblas]

present+ David

17:04:50 [Zakim]

+ +1.603.897.aaee

17:04:53 [mhausenblas]

Topic: Admin

17:05:03 [Zakim]

+??P17

17:05:05 [Souri]

Souri has joined #rdb2rdf

17:05:08 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, aaee is Souri

17:05:08 [Zakim]

+Souri; got it

17:05:16 [mhausenblas]

present+ Souri

17:05:26 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, P17 is joerg

17:05:26 [Zakim]

sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'

17:05:31 [mhausenblas]

Zakim, ??P17 is joerg

17:05:31 [Zakim]

+joerg; got it

17:05:34 [joerg]

zakim, +??P17 is joerg

17:05:34 [Zakim]

sorry, joerg, I do not recognize a party named '+??P17'

17:05:35 [mhausenblas]

present+ Joerg

17:05:56 [mhausenblas]

PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-RDB2RDF-minutes.html

17:06:47 [Ashok]

RESOLUTION: Minutes accepted as posted ... no objections

17:06:59 [mhausenblas]

Topic: ISSUE-68: Multiple PredicateMaps in a PredicateObjectMap

17:07:03 [mhausenblas]

ISSUE-68?

17:07:03 [trackbot]

ISSUE-68 -- Multiple PredicateMaps in a PredicateObjectMap -- open

17:07:03 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/68

17:07:14 [MacTed]

might make sense to start http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open

17:08:12 [Ashok]

Richard summarizes the current situation

17:09:42 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:09:51 [Zakim]

+ericp

17:09:53 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

17:09:53 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas

17:09:59 [mhausenblas]

present+ Eric

17:10:01 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

17:10:01 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas

17:13:21 [Souri]

PO+ is more common, then why not PO+ as well? Why just P+O?

17:13:23 [dmcneil]

+q

17:13:24 [Souri]

q+

17:13:32 [mhausenblas]

ack dmcneil

17:13:59 [cygri]

q+

17:14:06 [mhausenblas]

ack Souri

17:14:07 [Ashok]

David: Let us focus on getting the core spec out ... shortcuts can come later

17:14:07 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:15:45 [MacTed]

q+

17:16:46 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:16:58 [mhausenblas]

ack cygri

17:18:14 [Souri]

There was NO resolution on it!!

17:18:41 [Souri]

q+

17:18:52 [Ashok]

q+

17:19:12 [Souri]

I was NOT happy to see it in the pre-LC draft w/o any resolution!

17:20:21 [Ashok]

Richard: Many D2R users use this feature

17:21:08 [Ashok]

Souri: PO+ is more common, then why not PO+ as well? Why just P+O?

17:21:27 [dmcneil]

richard: out of curiousity... why are you opposed to supporting multiple objects on a PO map? Is it simply because you don't see it as a very common need?

17:21:50 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:21:56 [mhausenblas]

ack MacTed

17:22:04 [Ashok]

Richard: Very useful to create multiple propertes from one column ... other wise need to copy/paste

17:22:51 [Souri]

Leaving out the shortcut => x:omap rr:objectMap [ .... ] ; [] rr:predicateObjectMap [ rr:predicate x:p1 ; rr:objectMap x:omap ], [ rr:predicate x:p2 ; rr:objectMap x:omap ] .

17:22:56 [Ashok]

Ted: Has there been a user need for multiple object maps. Or is it just symmetry

17:23:02 [mhausenblas]

ack Souri

17:23:53 [Ashok]

Souri: This feature was suggested after Last call

17:24:10 [Ashok]

s/call/Call/

17:24:38 [mhausenblas]

q+

17:24:41 [Ashok]

... it was added to document without a WG resolution

17:24:52 [cygri]

q+ to say it was *not* suggested after LC

17:25:17 [Ashok]

... PO* is more common ... not just a matter of symmetry

17:25:56 [mhausenblas]

Michael: I'd very much appreciate it if people would stop arguing about process issues. Things that happened, happened. We have overcome more difficult issues already.

17:26:41 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Otherwise, my proposal would be to go into a 2nd LC

17:26:47 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:26:58 [Ashok]

Souri: User do not know that PO+ is even possible

17:27:37 [mhausenblas]

ack Ashok

17:28:30 [Ashok]

... Language has been changed since D2R

17:28:32 [juansequeda]

... haven't made my mind yet. I agree with both parties

17:28:41 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:28:46 [mhausenblas]

ack me

17:29:54 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:29:59 [cygri]

PROPOSAL: allow multiple predicate maps on a predicate-object map

17:30:23 [Souri]

Three proposals: none, P+O only, P+O and PO+ both

17:30:28 [dmcneil]

richard: out of curiousity... why are you opposed to supporting multiple objects on a PO map? Is it simply because you don't see it as a very common need?

17:30:42 [Souri]

-1

17:31:22 [dmcneil]

+q

17:31:49 [mhausenblas]

ack cygri

17:31:49 [Zakim]

cygri, you wanted to say it was *not* suggested after LC

17:32:16 [Souri]

I always stick to the fact

17:32:17 [Ashok]

Ashok: Let us ask who can live with the proposal

17:33:09 [mhausenblas]

Michael: If we ask only who can live with the proposal, would that mean that people who don't say anything, agree with it?

17:33:21 [Ashok]

Richard: We could add a number of shortcuts but we should add only those where there is a demand

17:33:34 [Souri]

q+

17:33:54 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:34:26 [dmcneil]

so in D2R it is easy to add multiple objects?

17:34:36 [mhausenblas]

ack dmcneil

17:34:49 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:34:53 [Souri]

Example of PO+: Three cols combined into one predicate: cellphone, workphone, homephone

17:35:16 [Ashok]

David: It is easy for people to add an object ... or a predicate?

17:36:10 [Ashok]

Richard: Typically D2R users do a default generation and then specialize it ... can add additional predicates

17:36:23 [mhausenblas]

ack Souri

17:36:24 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:38:06 [Souri]

PROPOSAL: allow no shortcuts regarding PredicateMaps and ObjectMaps, only P+O shortcut, or both P+O and PO+ shortcuts

17:38:20 [MacTed]

straw poll: would you object to spec including (1) neither, (2) P+O only, (3) P+O and PO+ both

17:38:50 [juansequeda]

(3) +1

17:39:36 [Souri]

let us make the proposal +ve

17:40:07 [MacTed]

straw poll: would you prefer spec include (1) neither, (2) P+O only, (3) P+O and PO+ both

17:40:23 [Souri]

(1) +1, (2) -1, (3) 0.5

17:40:23 [juansequeda]

(3) +1

17:40:34 [joerg]

(3) +1

17:40:38 [nunolopes]

(1) +1, (2) -1, (3) +1

17:40:39 [juansequeda]

(1) -1

17:40:40 [juansequeda]

(2) -1

17:41:00 [dmcneil]

(1) +1

17:41:05 [cygri]

(1) -1, (2) +1, (3) -0.sometihng

17:41:06 [seema]

(1) +1, (2) -1, (3) +1

17:41:15 [ivan]

(1) -1 (2) 1 (3) 1

17:41:47 [Souri]

(3) is the winner

17:43:12 [Souri]

it is not an argument for symmetry!

17:45:36 [Souri]

that impl difficulty note has to apply to both P+O and PO+

17:45:53 [mhausenblas]

q?

17:46:16 [Souri]

q+

17:47:02 [mhausenblas]

ack Souri

17:47:55 [mhausenblas]

Michael: So, can we have a 'final' proposal now?

17:47:58 [dmcneil]

+q

17:48:53 [mhausenblas]

ack dmcneil

17:50:00 [MacTed]

working....

17:50:13 [cygri]

dmcneil, true. i don't believe that anyone will write R2RML mappings from scratch.

17:50:50 [MacTed]

PROPOSAL: allow P+O and PO+, with language stating that either may be at risk if implementation is proven excessively difficult

17:51:10 [mhausenblas]

PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-68 with - allow P+O and PO+, with language stating that either may be at risk if implementation is proven excessively difficult

17:52:12 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Anyone objects (you can also abstain)?

17:52:58 [Souri]

"should"

17:53:30 [juansequeda]

+1 to the Proposal

17:53:36 [Souri]

-1 considering how would we assess the relative difficulties of the two shortcuts -- if P+O gets in PO+ must be in too OR both must be out

17:53:59 [cygri]

PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-68 with - allow P+O and PO+

17:54:36 [juansequeda]

+1

17:54:53 [ivan]

+1

17:54:56 [joerg]

+1

17:54:59 [nunolopes]

+1

17:55:02 [Souri]

+1

17:55:15 [MacTed]

+1

17:55:24 [seema]

+1 to Richard's proposal

17:55:31 [cygri]

+1

17:56:58 [Ashok]

RESOLUTION: Issue 68 closed with Richard's proposal diuscussion - allow P+O and PO+

17:57:02 [mhausenblas]

ACTION: Richard to implement the resolution to ISSUE-68

17:57:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-183 - Implement the resolution to ISSUE-68 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-01-17].

17:57:09 [cygri]

ACTION-182?

17:57:09 [trackbot]

ACTION-182 -- Richard Cyganiak to email the group summarizing ISSUE-68 position -- due 2011-12-27 -- OPEN

17:57:09 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/182

17:57:28 [cygri]

trackbot, close ACTION-182

17:57:28 [trackbot]

ACTION-182 Email the group summarizing ISSUE-68 position closed

17:57:36 [mhausenblas]

Topic: ISSUE-73: Section 11 cleanup

17:57:45 [mhausenblas]

ISSUE-73?

17:57:45 [trackbot]

ISSUE-73 -- Section 11 cleanup -- open

17:57:45 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/73

17:58:26 [mhausenblas]

PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE 73 as it was blocked on 68 and 72

17:58:58 [Ashok]

RESOLUTION: ISSUE-73 closed as issues 68 and 72 resolved

17:59:01 [cygri]

+1

17:59:21 [MacTed]

need to convert ISSUE 73 to ACTION...

17:59:24 [mhausenblas]

Topic: Towards CR

17:59:47 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Please http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#cfi

18:00:03 [ivan]

q+

18:00:26 [mhausenblas]

ack ivan

18:00:30 [mhausenblas]

Michael: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations

18:01:07 [mhausenblas]

Michael: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Last_Call

18:01:13 [Ashok]

Ivan: To go to CR we need a call ... for that we need a report on Last Call issue resolution

18:03:37 [mhausenblas]

q?

18:03:59 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/LC/

18:04:31 [Ashok]

Ashok: Is the DM document ready?

18:04:56 [ivan]

q+

18:05:20 [mhausenblas]

Michael: It seems to me that it may make more sense to wait till all R2RML changes have been implemented and do the CR resolution next week (?)

18:05:21 [mhausenblas]

q?

18:05:51 [Souri]

q+

18:05:59 [Ashok]

Eric: Talks about translating SQL strings ... will write some mail

18:06:09 [mhausenblas]

ack ivan

18:06:12 [mhausenblas]

q?

18:06:31 [Ashok]

Michael: So, the DM document is not ready

18:07:11 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

18:07:11 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas

18:07:15 [cygri]

see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#sotd-xsd-dep

18:07:53 [Ashok]

Ivan: Reminds the WG that XSD 1.1 will go to PR soon. So our issue on XSD 1.0 vs. XSD 1.1 becomes moot

18:08:03 [mhausenblas]

ack Souri

18:08:11 [cygri]

ACTION: cygri to remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED

18:08:11 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-184 - Remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-01-17].

18:08:31 [Ashok]

Ashok: The issue was about the canonical representation

18:09:36 [Ashok]

Souri: Examples with case sensetive table names would be good. Please check is current examples are correct wrt case senestivity.

18:09:38 [Zakim]

-Ivan

18:09:40 [Zakim]

-Souri

18:09:41 [Zakim]

-mhausenblas

18:09:42 [Zakim]

-MacTed

18:09:43 [Zakim]

-dmcneil

18:09:43 [Zakim]

-Eric

18:09:44 [Zakim]

-seema

18:09:47 [Zakim]

-juansequeda

18:09:49 [Zakim]

-Ashok_Malhotra

18:09:49 [Zakim]

SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended

18:09:50 [Zakim]

Attendees were +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, MacTed, cygri, +575737aabb, juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, Ivan, nunolopes, +1.603.897.aacc, seema, +1.314.394.aadd, dmcneil,

18:09:52 [Zakim]

... +1.603.897.aaee, Souri, joerg, Eric

18:10:02 [Souri]

s/senestivity/sensitivity/

18:10:02 [mhausenblas]

trackbot, end telecon

18:10:02 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

18:10:02 [Zakim]

sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is

18:10:05 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

18:10:05 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html trackbot

18:10:06 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

18:10:06 [RRSAgent]

I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-actions.rdf :

18:10:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Richard to implement the resolution to ISSUE-68 [1]

18:10:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-57-02

18:10:06 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: cygri to remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED [2]

18:10:06 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T18-08-11

18:10:09 [joerg]

joerg has left #RDB2RDF

18:10:18 [Souri]

s/sensetive/sensitive/

18:11:39 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF

18:11:39 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc

18:11:40 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

18:11:40 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html MacTed

18:11:48 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, bye

18:11:57 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, make logs public

18:12:00 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, bye

18:12:00 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items

18:12:28 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF

18:12:28 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc

18:12:44 [MacTed]

s/Examples with case sensitive table names would be good. Please check is current examples are correct wrt case sensitivity/Examples with table names with special characters and/or case sensitivity would be good. Please check that current case sensitive examples are correct/

18:12:55 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

18:12:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html MacTed

18:13:01 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, make logs public

18:13:13 [MacTed]

close enough.

18:13:15 [MacTed]

RRSAgent, bye

18:13:15 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items