16:36:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
16:36:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc
16:36:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:36:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #RDB2RDF
16:36:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:36:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
16:36:28 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:36:28 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2012
16:45:34 <mhausenblas> mhausenblas has joined #rdb2rdf
16:46:26 <mhausenblas> trackbot, start telecon
16:46:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:46:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7322733
16:46:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
16:46:31 <trackbot> Meeting: RDB2RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:46:31 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2012
16:46:42 <mhausenblas> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdb2rdf-wg/2012Jan/0001.html
16:46:48 <mhausenblas> Chair: Michael
16:47:00 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Marcelo
16:47:04 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Boris
16:47:11 <mhausenblas> regrets+ Percy
16:47:16 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:47:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
16:47:22 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:48:20 <mhausenblas> Zakim, this will be SW_RDB2RDF
16:48:20 <Zakim> ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
16:53:06 <juansequeda> juansequeda has joined #rdb2rdf
16:58:38 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has now started
16:58:47 <Zakim> + +3539149aaaa
16:58:56 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaaa is me
16:58:56 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it
17:00:24 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
17:00:32 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:00:37 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
17:00:37 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
17:00:37 <mhausenblas> present+ Michael
17:00:39 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
17:00:39 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
17:00:43 <mhausenblas> present+ Ted
17:00:53 <cygri> zakim, i'm with mhausenblas
17:00:53 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
17:00:59 <mhausenblas> present+ Richard
17:00:59 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:31 <seema> seema has joined #rdb2rdf
17:01:43 <Zakim> + +575737aabb
17:01:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aabb is juansequeda 
17:01:52 <Zakim> +juansequeda; got it
17:01:52 <juansequeda> zakime, aabb is me
17:01:58 <mhausenblas> present+ Juan
17:02:17 <mhausenblas> present+ Nuno
17:02:18 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
17:02:27 <mhausenblas> present+ Ashok
17:02:31 <dmcneil> dmcneil has joined #RDB2RDF
17:02:35 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
17:02:35 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
17:02:37 <Zakim> +Ivan
17:02:42 <nunolopes> nunolopes has joined #rdb2rdf
17:02:45 <mhausenblas> present+ Ivan
17:02:52 <nunolopes> Zakim, nunolopes is with mhausenblas 
17:02:52 <Zakim> +nunolopes; got it
17:02:52 <mhausenblas> Zakim, nunolopes is with me
17:02:54 <Zakim> nunolopes was already listed in mhausenblas, mhausenblas
17:02:56 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aacc
17:03:04 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aacc is seema 
17:03:04 <Zakim> +seema; got it
17:03:12 <mhausenblas> present+ Seema
17:03:18 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:03:45 <joerg> joerg has joined #RDB2RDF
17:04:20 <mhausenblas> scribenick: Ashok 
17:04:32 <Zakim> + +1.314.394.aadd
17:04:43 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aadd is dmcneil 
17:04:43 <Zakim> +dmcneil; got it
17:04:47 <mhausenblas> present+ David
17:04:50 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaee
17:04:53 <mhausenblas> Topic: Admin
17:05:03 <Zakim> +??P17
17:05:05 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdb2rdf
17:05:08 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaee is Souri 
17:05:08 <Zakim> +Souri; got it
17:05:16 <mhausenblas> present+ Souri
17:05:26 <mhausenblas> Zakim, P17 is joerg 
17:05:26 <Zakim> sorry, mhausenblas, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'
17:05:31 <mhausenblas> Zakim, ??P17 is joerg 
17:05:31 <Zakim> +joerg; got it
17:05:34 <joerg> zakim, +??P17 is joerg
17:05:34 <Zakim> sorry, joerg, I do not recognize a party named '+??P17'
17:05:35 <mhausenblas> present+ Joerg
17:05:56 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Accept the minutes of last meeting http://www.w3.org/2011/12/20-RDB2RDF-minutes.html
17:06:47 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  Minutes accepted as posted ... no objections
17:06:59 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-68: Multiple PredicateMaps in a PredicateObjectMap
17:07:03 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-68?
17:07:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-68 -- Multiple PredicateMaps in a PredicateObjectMap -- open
17:07:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/68
17:07:14 <MacTed> might make sense to start http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/open
17:08:12 <Ashok> Richard summarizes the current situation
17:09:42 <mhausenblas> q?
17:09:51 <Zakim> +ericp
17:09:53 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:09:59 <mhausenblas> present+ Eric
17:10:01 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:10:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
17:13:21 <Souri> PO+ is more common, then why not PO+ as well? Why just P+O?
17:13:23 <dmcneil> +q
17:13:24 <Souri> q+
17:13:32 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil 
17:13:59 <cygri> q+
17:14:06 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
17:14:07 <Ashok> David:  Let us focus on getting the core spec out ... shortcuts can come later
17:14:07 <mhausenblas> q?
17:15:45 <MacTed> q+
17:16:46 <mhausenblas> q?
17:16:58 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
17:18:14 <Souri> There was NO resolution on it!!
17:18:41 <Souri> q+
17:18:52 <Ashok> q+
17:19:12 <Souri> I was NOT happy to see it in the pre-LC draft w/o any resolution!
17:20:21 <Ashok> Richard:  Many D2R users use this feature
17:21:08 <Ashok> Souri:  PO+ is more common, then why not PO+ as well? Why just P+O?
17:21:27 <dmcneil> richard: out of curiousity... why are you opposed to supporting multiple objects on a PO map? Is it simply because you don't see it as a very common need?
17:21:50 <mhausenblas> q?
17:21:56 <mhausenblas> ack MacTed 
17:22:04 <Ashok> Richard:  Very useful to create multiple propertes from one column ... other wise need to copy/paste
17:22:51 <Souri> Leaving out the shortcut => x:omap  rr:objectMap  [ .... ] ; [] rr:predicateObjectMap [ rr:predicate x:p1 ; rr:objectMap x:omap ],  [ rr:predicate x:p2 ; rr:objectMap x:omap ] .
17:22:56 <Ashok> Ted:  Has there been a user need for multiple object maps.  Or is it just symmetry
17:23:02 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
17:23:53 <Ashok> Souri:  This feature was suggested after Last call
17:24:10 <Ashok> s/call/Call/
17:24:38 <mhausenblas> q+
17:24:41 <Ashok> ... it was added to document without a WG resolution
17:24:52 <cygri> q+ to say it was *not* suggested after LC
17:25:17 <Ashok> ... PO* is more common ... not just a matter of symmetry
17:25:56 <mhausenblas> Michael: I'd very much appreciate it if people would stop arguing about process issues. Things that happened, happened. We have overcome more difficult issues already. 
17:26:41 <mhausenblas> Michael: Otherwise, my proposal would be to go into a 2nd LC
17:26:47 <mhausenblas> q?
17:26:58 <Ashok> Souri:  User do not know that PO+ is even possible
17:27:37 <mhausenblas> ack Ashok 
17:28:30 <Ashok> ... Language has been changed since D2R
17:28:32 <juansequeda> ... haven't made my mind yet. I agree with both parties
17:28:41 <mhausenblas> q?
17:28:46 <mhausenblas> ack me
17:29:54 <mhausenblas> q?
17:29:59 <cygri> PROPOSAL: allow multiple predicate maps on a predicate-object map
17:30:23 <Souri> Three proposals: none, P+O only, P+O and PO+ both
17:30:28 <dmcneil> richard: out of curiousity... why are you opposed to supporting multiple objects on a PO map? Is it simply because you don't see it as a very common need?
17:30:42 <Souri> -1
17:31:22 <dmcneil> +q
17:31:49 <mhausenblas> ack cygri 
17:31:49 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to say it was *not* suggested after LC
17:32:16 <Souri> I always stick to the fact
17:32:17 <Ashok> Ashok:  Let us ask who can live with the proposal
17:33:09 <mhausenblas> Michael: If we ask only who can live with the proposal, would that mean that people who don't say anything, agree with it?
17:33:21 <Ashok> Richard:  We could add a number of shortcuts but we should add only those where there is a demand
17:33:34 <Souri> q+
17:33:54 <mhausenblas> q?
17:34:26 <dmcneil> so in D2R it is easy to add multiple objects?
17:34:36 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil 
17:34:49 <mhausenblas> q?
17:34:53 <Souri> Example of PO+: Three cols combined into one predicate: cellphone, workphone, homephone
17:35:16 <Ashok> David:  It is easy for people to add an object ... or a predicate?
17:36:10 <Ashok> Richard:  Typically D2R users do a default generation and then specialize it ... can add additional predicates
17:36:23 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
17:36:24 <mhausenblas> q?
17:38:06 <Souri> PROPOSAL: allow no shortcuts regarding PredicateMaps and ObjectMaps,  only P+O shortcut, or both P+O and PO+ shortcuts
17:38:20 <MacTed> straw poll:  would you object to spec including (1) neither, (2) P+O only, (3) P+O and PO+ both
17:38:50 <juansequeda> (3) +1
17:39:36 <Souri> let us make the proposal +ve
17:40:07 <MacTed> straw poll:  would you prefer spec include (1) neither, (2) P+O only, (3) P+O and PO+ both
17:40:23 <Souri> (1) +1, (2) -1, (3) 0.5
17:40:23 <juansequeda> (3) +1
17:40:34 <joerg> (3) +1
17:40:38 <nunolopes> (1) +1, (2) -1, (3) +1
17:40:39 <juansequeda> (1) -1
17:40:40 <juansequeda> (2) -1
17:41:00 <dmcneil> (1) +1
17:41:05 <cygri> (1) -1, (2) +1, (3) -0.sometihng
17:41:06 <seema> (1) +1, (2) -1, (3) +1
17:41:15 <ivan> (1) -1 (2) 1 (3) 1
17:41:47 <Souri> (3) is the winner
17:43:12 <Souri> it is not an argument for symmetry!
17:45:36 <Souri> that impl difficulty note has to apply to both P+O and PO+
17:45:53 <mhausenblas> q?
17:46:16 <Souri> q+
17:47:02 <mhausenblas> ack Souri 
17:47:55 <mhausenblas> Michael: So, can we have a 'final' proposal now?
17:47:58 <dmcneil> +q
17:48:53 <mhausenblas> ack dmcneil 
17:50:00 <MacTed> working....
17:50:13 <cygri> dmcneil, true. i don't believe that anyone will write R2RML mappings from scratch.
17:50:50 <MacTed> PROPOSAL: allow P+O and PO+, with language stating that either may be at risk if implementation is proven excessively difficult
17:51:10 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-68 with - allow P+O and PO+, with language stating that either may be at risk if implementation is proven excessively difficult
17:52:12 <mhausenblas> Michael: Anyone objects (you can also abstain)?
17:52:58 <Souri> "should"
17:53:30 <juansequeda> +1 to the Proposal
17:53:36 <Souri> -1 considering how would we assess the relative difficulties of the two shortcuts -- if P+O gets in PO+ must be in too OR both must be out
17:53:59 <cygri> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-68 with - allow P+O and PO+
17:54:36 <juansequeda> +1
17:54:53 <ivan> +1
17:54:56 <joerg> +1
17:54:59 <nunolopes> +1
17:55:02 <Souri> +1
17:55:15 <MacTed> +1
17:55:24 <seema> +1 to Richard's proposal
17:55:31 <cygri> +1
17:56:58 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  Issue 68 closed with Richard's proposal diuscussion - allow P+O and PO+
17:57:02 <mhausenblas> ACTION: Richard to implement the resolution to ISSUE-68
17:57:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Implement the resolution to ISSUE-68 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-01-17].
17:57:09 <cygri> ACTION-182?
17:57:09 <trackbot> ACTION-182 -- Richard Cyganiak to email the group summarizing ISSUE-68 position -- due 2011-12-27 -- OPEN
17:57:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/actions/182
17:57:28 <cygri> trackbot, close ACTION-182
17:57:28 <trackbot> ACTION-182 Email the group summarizing ISSUE-68 position closed
17:57:36 <mhausenblas> Topic: ISSUE-73: Section 11 cleanup
17:57:45 <mhausenblas> ISSUE-73?
17:57:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-73 -- Section 11 cleanup -- open
17:57:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/track/issues/73
17:58:26 <mhausenblas> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE 73 as it was blocked on 68 and 72
17:58:58 <Ashok> RESOLUTION:  ISSUE-73 closed as issues 68 and 72 resolved
17:59:01 <cygri> +1
17:59:21 <MacTed> need to convert ISSUE 73 to ACTION...
17:59:24 <mhausenblas> Topic: Towards CR
17:59:47 <mhausenblas> Michael: Please http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#cfi
18:00:03 <ivan> q+
18:00:26 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
18:00:30 <mhausenblas> Michael: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Implementations
18:01:07 <mhausenblas> Michael: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Last_Call
18:01:13 <Ashok> Ivan:  To go to CR we need a call ... for that we need a report on Last Call issue resolution
18:03:37 <mhausenblas> q?
18:03:59 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/directMapping/LC/
18:04:31 <Ashok> Ashok:  Is the DM document ready?
18:04:56 <ivan> q+
18:05:20 <mhausenblas> Michael: It seems to me that it may make more sense to wait till all R2RML changes have been implemented and do the CR resolution next week (?)
18:05:21 <mhausenblas> q?
18:05:51 <Souri> q+
18:05:59 <Ashok> Eric:  Talks about translating SQL strings ... will write some mail
18:06:09 <mhausenblas> ack ivan
18:06:12 <mhausenblas> q?
18:06:31 <Ashok> Michael:  So, the DM document is not ready
18:07:11 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:07:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html mhausenblas
18:07:15 <cygri> see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/r2rml/#sotd-xsd-dep
18:07:53 <Ashok> Ivan:  Reminds the WG that XSD 1.1 will go to PR soon.  So our issue on XSD 1.0 vs. XSD 1.1 becomes moot
18:08:03 <mhausenblas> ack Souri
18:08:11 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED
18:08:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-01-17].
18:08:31 <Ashok> Ashok:  The issue was about the canonical representation
18:09:36 <Ashok> Souri:  Examples with case sensetive table names would be good.  Please check is current examples are correct wrt case senestivity.
18:09:38 <Zakim> -Ivan
18:09:40 <Zakim> -Souri
18:09:41 <Zakim> -mhausenblas
18:09:42 <Zakim> -MacTed
18:09:43 <Zakim> -dmcneil
18:09:43 <Zakim> -Eric
18:09:44 <Zakim> -seema
18:09:47 <Zakim> -juansequeda
18:09:49 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
18:09:49 <Zakim> SW_RDB2RDF()12:00PM has ended
18:09:50 <Zakim> Attendees were +3539149aaaa, mhausenblas, MacTed, cygri, +575737aabb, juansequeda, Ashok_Malhotra, Ivan, nunolopes, +1.603.897.aacc, seema, +1.314.394.aadd, dmcneil,
18:09:52 <Zakim> ... +1.603.897.aaee, Souri, joerg, Eric
18:10:02 <Souri> s/senestivity/sensitivity/
18:10:02 <mhausenblas> trackbot, end telecon
18:10:02 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:10:02 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:10:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:10:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html trackbot
18:10:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:10:06 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-actions.rdf :
18:10:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Richard to implement the resolution to ISSUE-68 [1]
18:10:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T17-57-02
18:10:06 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cygri to remove XML Schema Datatypes Dependency paragraph from R2RML ED [2]
18:10:06 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc#T18-08-11
18:10:09 <joerg> joerg has left #RDB2RDF
18:10:18 <Souri> s/sensetive/sensitive/
18:11:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
18:11:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc
18:11:40 <MacTed> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:11:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html MacTed
18:11:48 <MacTed> RRSAgent, bye
18:11:57 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:12:00 <MacTed> RRSAgent, bye
18:12:00 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:12:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #RDB2RDF
18:12:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-irc
18:12:44 <MacTed> s/Examples with case sensitive table names would be good. Please check is current examples are correct wrt case sensitivity/Examples with table names with special characters and/or case sensitivity would be good.  Please check that current case sensitive examples are correct/
18:12:55 <MacTed> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:12:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/10-RDB2RDF-minutes.html MacTed
18:13:01 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:13:13 <MacTed> close enough.
18:13:15 <MacTed> RRSAgent, bye
18:13:15 <RRSAgent> I see no action items