IRC log of ua on 2012-01-05
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:53:44 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ua
- 16:53:44 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc
- 16:53:46 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 16:53:46 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #ua
- 16:53:48 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
- 16:53:49 [trackbot]
- Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 16:53:49 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 January 2012
- 16:53:49 [Zakim]
- I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
- 16:54:06 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 16:57:01 [JAllan]
- regrets: kelly, simon
- 17:56:11 [Greg]
- Greg has joined #ua
- 18:00:10 [JAllan]
- trackbot, start meeting
- 18:00:13 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 18:00:15 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
- 18:00:15 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
- 18:00:16 [trackbot]
- Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 18:00:16 [trackbot]
- Date: 05 January 2012
- 18:00:32 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 18:00:32 [Jan]
- Jan has joined #ua
- 18:00:41 [Jan]
- zakim, code?
- 18:00:41 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
- 18:00:44 [JAllan]
- regrets: simon, kelly
- 18:00:59 [Zakim]
- +Greg_Lowney
- 18:01:10 [Zakim]
- +Jeanne
- 18:01:13 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #ua
- 18:01:15 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 18:01:27 [JAllan]
- agenda+ LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January.
- 18:01:40 [Jan]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
- 18:01:41 [Zakim]
- +Jan; got it
- 18:03:05 [JAllan]
- agenda+ action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html
- 18:03:45 [JAllan]
- action+ survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
- 18:04:47 [JAllan]
- agenda+ UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
- 18:05:57 [Zakim]
- +Kim_Patch
- 18:06:43 [JAllan]
- regrets+ wayne
- 18:07:06 [Zakim]
- + +1.609.734.aaaa
- 18:07:39 [KimPatch]
- KimPatch has joined #ua
- 18:07:47 [JAllan]
- zakim, aaaa is really Mark
- 18:07:47 [Zakim]
- +Mark; got it
- 18:07:48 [jeanne]
- regrets+ Simon
- 18:08:13 [JAllan]
- zakim, agenda?
- 18:08:13 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
- 18:08:14 [Zakim]
- 1. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January. [from JAllan]
- 18:08:16 [Zakim]
- 2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
- 18:08:18 [Zakim]
- 3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
- 18:08:47 [JAllan]
- action+ survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
- 18:09:00 [JAllan]
- zakim, agenda+
- 18:09:09 [JAllan]
- zakim, agenda?
- 18:09:09 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
- 18:09:11 [Zakim]
- 1. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January. [from JAllan]
- 18:09:14 [Zakim]
- 2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
- 18:09:17 [Zakim]
- 3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
- 18:09:50 [jeanne]
- regrets+ Kelly
- 18:13:13 [JAllan]
- zakim, open item 1
- 18:13:13 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January." taken up [from JAllan]
- 18:13:48 [JAllan]
- discussion of timing. 3 hours seems concensus
- 18:14:01 [JAllan]
- js suggest thrus and friday
- 18:14:35 [JAllan]
- s/thrus/thurs
- 18:18:22 [jeanne]
- Special Meeting: 19 & 20, 1:00-4:00 US.
- 18:18:44 [jeanne]
- s/US./ET
- 18:20:06 [JAllan]
- js suggests also meeting on 13 also
- 18:21:22 [JAllan]
- will have tentative meeting on Jan 13 from 1-4 ET. come if you can, Zakim will be set up,
- 18:21:40 [JAllan]
- Jeanne will send out the zakim codes, etc
- 18:22:05 [jeanne]
- action: Jeanne to set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices.
- 18:22:05 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-698 - Set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-01-12].
- 18:22:12 [JAllan]
- zakim, close item 1
- 18:22:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January., closed
- 18:22:14 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 18:22:15 [Zakim]
- 2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
- 18:22:22 [JAllan]
- zakim, open item 2
- 18:22:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html" taken up [from JAllan]
- 18:22:40 [JAllan]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
- 18:25:00 [mth]
- mth has joined #ua
- 18:27:33 [JAllan]
- topic: 2.11.7
- 18:27:48 [JAllan]
- this is the current wording in the draft.
- 18:28:05 [JAllan]
- jr: need dfn for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units"
- 18:29:08 [JAllan]
- action: markH to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7
- 18:29:08 [trackbot]
- Sorry, couldn't find user - markH
- 18:29:21 [JAllan]
- action: mark to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7
- 18:29:21 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-699 - Write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2012-01-12].
- 18:29:54 [JAllan]
- discussion of time position, and continuous time scale.
- 18:30:34 [JAllan]
- mh: user is limited by granularity of the interface on the continuous time scale.
- 18:31:34 [JAllan]
- jr: we need to define our scale better. saying that it depends on the UI (frame, tenth of second, 10 seconds, etc.) where is the accessibility criteria?
- 18:32:04 [JAllan]
- gl: granularity should be "reasonable"
- 18:32:44 [JAllan]
- jr: arbitrary units could be gotten from WCAG20 2.2.1
- 18:32:45 [Jan]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#time-limits
- 18:33:34 [JAllan]
- ... and 2.2.2
- 18:34:11 [JAllan]
- jr: interesting that WCAG has time of 5 seconds, UAAG has timing of 3 seconds
- 18:35:11 [JAllan]
- mh: caption on screen length...as long as speech lasts or until next instance of speech
- 18:35:59 [JAllan]
- gl: base it on type of media, high speed camera work.
- 18:36:54 [JAllan]
- mh: stick with continuous time scale, but may depend on the media.
- 18:38:14 [JAllan]
- setting of time scale 1-10, or 1-100, or 1-500. youtube does 10% increments from the keyboard
- 18:38:35 [JAllan]
- kp: speech users need more granularity.
- 18:39:34 [JAllan]
- mh: as fine a granularity as supported by the technology
- 18:40:11 [JAllan]
- close for now, more discussion when mark comes back with definitions.
- 18:40:44 [JAllan]
- zakim, close item 2
- 18:40:44 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html, closed
- 18:40:46 [Zakim]
- I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
- 18:40:47 [Zakim]
- 3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
- 18:40:52 [JAllan]
- zakim, open item 3
- 18:40:52 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html" taken up [from JAllan]
- 18:42:42 [JAllan]
- topic: 2.11.x review time based media Action-643
- 18:42:48 [JAllan]
- 2.11.x Review Time-Based Media
- 18:42:50 [JAllan]
- The user can request that a predefined interval of recently played audio, video, or animation be repeated. (Level AA)
- 18:42:51 [JAllan]
- Intent:
- 18:42:53 [JAllan]
- Users with sensory, cognitive or attentional impairments may find it difficult to understand or follow time-based media, especially if distracted by environmental visual or auditory events. This success criteria allows users to review recently played content that may have been missed or not fully understood by providing a single action that resets the playback position by a predefined...
- 18:42:54 [JAllan]
- ...interval and resumes playback.
- 18:43:02 [JAllan]
- jr and gl: what is predefined?
- 18:43:21 [Greg]
- Clarify whether interval can be defined by developer, user, or either OK.
- 18:43:37 [JAllan]
- mh: to review Daisy spec. to see if timing is configurable. or see clarity of 'configurable'
- 18:44:01 [JAllan]
- gl: and others...this is a common feature in many players.
- 18:45:07 [JAllan]
- jr: granularity. Media accessibility requirements from PF Media Accessibility User Requirements
- 18:45:09 [JAllan]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs
- 18:46:09 [JAllan]
- could reference the above for granularity
- 18:47:57 [JAllan]
- gl: concerned about failing players for not meeting UAAG defined interval.
- 18:48:23 [JAllan]
- kp: need robust intent to explain some of the use cases
- 18:49:48 [Jan]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
- 18:50:04 [JAllan]
- topic: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2
- 18:52:28 [JAllan]
- jr: combined these to make 1 SC removing 3.4.2
- 18:53:27 [Jan]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-342
- 18:53:41 [Jan]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-241
- 18:53:53 [Jan]
- oops...
- 18:54:07 [Jan]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-214
- 18:54:36 [JAllan]
- gl: need to exempt have the status bar change as a link gets focus.
- 18:55:34 [JAllan]
- ... transient presentation of information needs to be considered
- 18:55:36 [Jan]
- 2.1.6 Separate Selection from Activation (former 2.1.4): The user can specify that selection is separate from activation (e.g. navigating through a set of radio buttons without changing which is the active/selected option). (Level A)
- 18:55:54 [Jan]
- 3.4.2 Avoid Side Effects of Navigation [former 1.9.1, before that 3.11.11, changed]: The user can move the keyboard focus without causing the user agent to take any further action, other than the presentation of information (e.g. scrolling or pop-ups that do not change the focus or selection). (Level A)
- 18:56:17 [JAllan]
- jr: is combining ok
- 18:56:29 [Greg]
- I agree it's possible in concept to combine those two, as changing focus could be considered a side effect of navigation.
- 18:56:39 [JAllan]
- ja, gl, mh, kp all ok with combining
- 18:56:59 [Jan]
- Action JR: Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok
- 18:56:59 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-700 - Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok [on Jan Richards - due 2012-01-12].
- 19:00:34 [Jan]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-531
- 19:01:50 [Zakim]
- -Mark
- 19:02:14 [jeanne]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Main_Page
- 19:03:17 [JAllan]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y
- 19:03:33 [Greg]
- Jan suggests that 5.3.1 (document accessibility features) would cover making sure accesskey works correctly.
- 19:03:48 [JAllan]
- jr: add a more specific list to 5.3.1 call out bugs that affect accessibility
- 19:03:51 [Greg]
- Greg notes that's only true of the HTML spec is specific enough about behavior.
- 19:05:28 [Greg]
- HTML4 spec *does* require the focus to be moved when the user presses an accesskey ("Pressing an access key assigned to an element gives focus to the element. The action that occurs when an element receives focus depends on the element.") So the behaviors of Webkit-based browsers (e.g. Chrome and Safari) fail to implement it as spec'd.
- 19:06:51 [JAllan]
- tab and enter should reset the dom pointer
- 19:11:24 [JAllan]
- discussion basic functionality in browsers that are broken...in page link, anchors for form control @id
- 19:15:06 [JAllan]
- jr: inpage links should move keyboard focus and the subsequent tabs should take the user to the next available link after the named anchor
- 19:15:51 [Jan]
- http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/menu.htm
- 19:16:59 [JAllan]
- action: Jim to write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility
- 19:17:00 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-701 - Write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility [on Jim Allan - due 2012-01-12].
- 19:18:51 [JAllan]
- zakim, agenda?
- 19:18:51 [Zakim]
- I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
- 19:18:53 [Zakim]
- 3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
- 19:19:22 [Zakim]
- -Kim_Patch
- 19:19:24 [Zakim]
- -Jan
- 19:19:48 [Zakim]
- -Greg_Lowney
- 19:19:55 [JAllan]
- zakim, close item 3
- 19:19:55 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html, closed
- 19:19:57 [Zakim]
- I see nothing remaining on the agenda
- 19:23:09 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:23:09 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
- 19:23:33 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, set logs public
- 19:24:32 [JAllan]
- present: Jim, Jeanne, Kim, Jan, Mark, Greg
- 19:24:37 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:24:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
- 19:24:51 [JAllan]
- chair: JimAllan
- 19:26:48 [JAllan]
- zakim, please part
- 19:26:48 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, +1.609.734.aaaa, Mark
- 19:26:48 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #ua
- 19:27:15 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:27:15 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
- 19:27:48 [JAllan]
- rrsagent, please part
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-actions.rdf :
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jeanne to set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices. [1]
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-22-05
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: markH to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [2]
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-29-08
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: mark to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [3]
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-29-21
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: JR to Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok [4]
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-56-59
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jim to write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility [5]
- 19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T19-16-59