IRC log of ua on 2012-01-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:44 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:53:44 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc
16:53:46 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:53:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:53:48 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:53:49 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:53:49 [trackbot]
Date: 05 January 2012
16:53:49 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:54:06 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:57:01 [JAllan]
regrets: kelly, simon
17:56:11 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
18:00:10 [JAllan]
trackbot, start meeting
18:00:13 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:00:15 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
18:00:15 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
18:00:16 [trackbot]
Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
18:00:16 [trackbot]
Date: 05 January 2012
18:00:32 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
18:00:32 [Jan]
Jan has joined #ua
18:00:41 [Jan]
zakim, code?
18:00:41 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
18:00:44 [JAllan]
regrets: simon, kelly
18:00:59 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
18:01:10 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
18:01:13 [jeanne]
jeanne has joined #ua
18:01:15 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:01:27 [JAllan]
agenda+ LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January.
18:01:40 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
18:01:41 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:03:05 [JAllan]
agenda+ action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html
18:03:45 [JAllan]
action+ survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
18:04:47 [JAllan]
agenda+ UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
18:05:57 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
18:06:43 [JAllan]
regrets+ wayne
18:07:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.609.734.aaaa
18:07:39 [KimPatch]
KimPatch has joined #ua
18:07:47 [JAllan]
zakim, aaaa is really Mark
18:07:47 [Zakim]
+Mark; got it
18:07:48 [jeanne]
regrets+ Simon
18:08:13 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
18:08:13 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:08:14 [Zakim]
1. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January. [from JAllan]
18:08:16 [Zakim]
2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
18:08:18 [Zakim]
3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
18:08:47 [JAllan]
action+ survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
18:09:00 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda+
18:09:09 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
18:09:09 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:09:11 [Zakim]
1. LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January. [from JAllan]
18:09:14 [Zakim]
2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
18:09:17 [Zakim]
3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
18:09:50 [jeanne]
regrets+ Kelly
18:13:13 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 1
18:13:13 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January." taken up [from JAllan]
18:13:48 [JAllan]
discussion of timing. 3 hours seems concensus
18:14:01 [JAllan]
js suggest thrus and friday
18:14:35 [JAllan]
s/thrus/thurs
18:18:22 [jeanne]
Special Meeting: 19 & 20, 1:00-4:00 US.
18:18:44 [jeanne]
s/US./ET
18:20:06 [JAllan]
js suggests also meeting on 13 also
18:21:22 [JAllan]
will have tentative meeting on Jan 13 from 1-4 ET. come if you can, Zakim will be set up,
18:21:40 [JAllan]
Jeanne will send out the zakim codes, etc
18:22:05 [jeanne]
action: Jeanne to set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices.
18:22:05 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-698 - Set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-01-12].
18:22:12 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 1
18:22:12 [Zakim]
agendum 1, LC push - schedule a couple of marathon day(s) want this out the door by end of January., closed
18:22:14 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:22:15 [Zakim]
2. action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html [from JAllan]
18:22:22 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 2
18:22:22 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html" taken up [from JAllan]
18:22:40 [JAllan]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20120105/
18:25:00 [mth]
mth has joined #ua
18:27:33 [JAllan]
topic: 2.11.7
18:27:48 [JAllan]
this is the current wording in the draft.
18:28:05 [JAllan]
jr: need dfn for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units"
18:29:08 [JAllan]
action: markH to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7
18:29:08 [trackbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - markH
18:29:21 [JAllan]
action: mark to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7
18:29:21 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-699 - Write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [on Markku Hakkinen - due 2012-01-12].
18:29:54 [JAllan]
discussion of time position, and continuous time scale.
18:30:34 [JAllan]
mh: user is limited by granularity of the interface on the continuous time scale.
18:31:34 [JAllan]
jr: we need to define our scale better. saying that it depends on the UI (frame, tenth of second, 10 seconds, etc.) where is the accessibility criteria?
18:32:04 [JAllan]
gl: granularity should be "reasonable"
18:32:44 [JAllan]
jr: arbitrary units could be gotten from WCAG20 2.2.1
18:32:45 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG/#time-limits
18:33:34 [JAllan]
... and 2.2.2
18:34:11 [JAllan]
jr: interesting that WCAG has time of 5 seconds, UAAG has timing of 3 seconds
18:35:11 [JAllan]
mh: caption on screen length...as long as speech lasts or until next instance of speech
18:35:59 [JAllan]
gl: base it on type of media, high speed camera work.
18:36:54 [JAllan]
mh: stick with continuous time scale, but may depend on the media.
18:38:14 [JAllan]
setting of time scale 1-10, or 1-100, or 1-500. youtube does 10% increments from the keyboard
18:38:35 [JAllan]
kp: speech users need more granularity.
18:39:34 [JAllan]
mh: as fine a granularity as supported by the technology
18:40:11 [JAllan]
close for now, more discussion when mark comes back with definitions.
18:40:44 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 2
18:40:44 [Zakim]
agendum 2, action-643 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0004.html, closed
18:40:46 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
18:40:47 [Zakim]
3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
18:40:52 [JAllan]
zakim, open item 3
18:40:52 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html" taken up [from JAllan]
18:42:42 [JAllan]
topic: 2.11.x review time based media Action-643
18:42:48 [JAllan]
2.11.x Review Time-Based Media
18:42:50 [JAllan]
The user can request that a predefined interval of recently played audio, video, or animation be repeated. (Level AA)
18:42:51 [JAllan]
Intent:
18:42:53 [JAllan]
Users with sensory, cognitive or attentional impairments may find it difficult to understand or follow time-based media, especially if distracted by environmental visual or auditory events. This success criteria allows users to review recently played content that may have been missed or not fully understood by providing a single action that resets the playback position by a predefined...
18:42:54 [JAllan]
...interval and resumes playback.
18:43:02 [JAllan]
jr and gl: what is predefined?
18:43:21 [Greg]
Clarify whether interval can be defined by developer, user, or either OK.
18:43:37 [JAllan]
mh: to review Daisy spec. to see if timing is configurable. or see clarity of 'configurable'
18:44:01 [JAllan]
gl: and others...this is a common feature in many players.
18:45:07 [JAllan]
jr: granularity. Media accessibility requirements from PF Media Accessibility User Requirements
18:45:09 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs
18:46:09 [JAllan]
could reference the above for granularity
18:47:57 [JAllan]
gl: concerned about failing players for not meeting UAAG defined interval.
18:48:23 [JAllan]
kp: need robust intent to explain some of the use cases
18:49:48 [Jan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html
18:50:04 [JAllan]
topic: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2
18:52:28 [JAllan]
jr: combined these to make 1 SC removing 3.4.2
18:53:27 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-342
18:53:41 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-241
18:53:53 [Jan]
oops...
18:54:07 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-214
18:54:36 [JAllan]
gl: need to exempt have the status bar change as a link gets focus.
18:55:34 [JAllan]
... transient presentation of information needs to be considered
18:55:36 [Jan]
2.1.6 Separate Selection from Activation (former 2.1.4): The user can specify that selection is separate from activation (e.g. navigating through a set of radio buttons without changing which is the active/selected option). (Level A)
18:55:54 [Jan]
3.4.2 Avoid Side Effects of Navigation [former 1.9.1, before that 3.11.11, changed]: The user can move the keyboard focus without causing the user agent to take any further action, other than the presentation of information (e.g. scrolling or pop-ups that do not change the focus or selection). (Level A)
18:56:17 [JAllan]
jr: is combining ok
18:56:29 [Greg]
I agree it's possible in concept to combine those two, as changing focus could be considered a side effect of navigation.
18:56:39 [JAllan]
ja, gl, mh, kp all ok with combining
18:56:59 [Jan]
Action JR: Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok
18:56:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-700 - Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok [on Jan Richards - due 2012-01-12].
19:00:34 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2011/ED-UAAG20-20111227/#sc-531
19:01:50 [Zakim]
-Mark
19:02:14 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Main_Page
19:03:17 [JAllan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/User_Agent_issues_effecting_A11y
19:03:33 [Greg]
Jan suggests that 5.3.1 (document accessibility features) would cover making sure accesskey works correctly.
19:03:48 [JAllan]
jr: add a more specific list to 5.3.1 call out bugs that affect accessibility
19:03:51 [Greg]
Greg notes that's only true of the HTML spec is specific enough about behavior.
19:05:28 [Greg]
HTML4 spec *does* require the focus to be moved when the user presses an accesskey ("Pressing an access key assigned to an element gives focus to the element. The action that occurs when an element receives focus depends on the element.") So the behaviors of Webkit-based browsers (e.g. Chrome and Safari) fail to implement it as spec'd.
19:06:51 [JAllan]
tab and enter should reset the dom pointer
19:11:24 [JAllan]
discussion basic functionality in browsers that are broken...in page link, anchors for form control @id
19:15:06 [JAllan]
jr: inpage links should move keyboard focus and the subsequent tabs should take the user to the next available link after the named anchor
19:15:51 [Jan]
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/menu.htm
19:16:59 [JAllan]
action: Jim to write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility
19:17:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-701 - Write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility [on Jim Allan - due 2012-01-12].
19:18:51 [JAllan]
zakim, agenda?
19:18:51 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
19:18:53 [Zakim]
3. UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html [from JAllan]
19:19:22 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
19:19:24 [Zakim]
-Jan
19:19:48 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
19:19:55 [JAllan]
zakim, close item 3
19:19:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3, UAWG SCs needing attention: 2.1.6 and 3.4.2 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JanMar/0003.html, closed
19:19:57 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
19:23:09 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:23:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:23:33 [JAllan]
rrsagent, set logs public
19:24:32 [JAllan]
present: Jim, Jeanne, Kim, Jan, Mark, Greg
19:24:37 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:24:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:24:51 [JAllan]
chair: JimAllan
19:26:48 [JAllan]
zakim, please part
19:26:48 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, +1.609.734.aaaa, Mark
19:26:48 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:27:15 [JAllan]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:27:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-minutes.html JAllan
19:27:48 [JAllan]
rrsagent, please part
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-actions.rdf :
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeanne to set up zakim teleconferences for special meetings on 13, 19 & 20 and send out notices. [1]
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-22-05
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: markH to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [2]
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-29-08
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: mark to write definitions for "Timebase", "continuous scale, "relative time units" related to 2.11.7 [3]
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-29-21
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JR to Continue to work on the combined 2.1.6 Navigation Without Side Effects to make it clear that some transient side effects are ok [4]
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T18-56-59
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jim to write intent for 5.3.1 to address browser bugs effecting accessibility [5]
19:27:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/01/05-ua-irc#T19-16-59