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Chatlog 2012-11-07
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15:57:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg 15:57:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/07-rdf-wg-irc 15:57:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 15:57:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg 15:57:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394 15:57:53 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 15:57:54 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference 15:57:54 <trackbot> Date: 07 November 2012 15:57:58 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394 15:57:59 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM 15:58:07 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:58:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a] 15:58:15 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me 15:58:15 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 15:58:20 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone? 15:58:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, [IPcaller.a] 15:58:27 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aaaa 15:58:29 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was [IPcaller.a]) 15:58:32 <Zakim> - +31.20.598.aaaa 15:58:47 <Zakim> + +1.408.992.aabb 15:59:16 <Zakim> + +31.20.598.aacc 15:59:18 <Zakim> +[GVoice] 15:59:30 <gavinc> Zakim, GVoice is me 15:59:30 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it 15:59:42 <Guus> zakim, +31.20.598 is me 15:59:43 <Zakim> +Guus; got it #15:59:43 <tbaker> zakim, Tom_Baker is the same as tbaker #15:59:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Tom_Baker is the same as tbaker', tbaker 15:59:55 <Guus> chair: Guus 16:00:06 <tbaker> zakim, I am Tom_Baker 16:00:06 <Zakim> ok, tbaker, I now associate you with Tom_Baker 16:00:10 <Guus> zakim, who is here? 16:00:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc 16:00:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, tbaker, gavinc, Guus, Arnaud, davidwood, ivan, gkellogg, MacTed, danbri, cygri, mischat, trackbot, manu, manu1, ericP 16:00:20 <Zakim> +Arnaud 16:00:32 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg 16:00:46 <Zakim> +??P12 16:00:52 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P12 is me 16:00:52 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it 16:01:08 <tbaker> off 16:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.617.324.aadd 16:01:21 <Zakim> +??P14 16:01:27 <Arnaud> scribe: Arnaud 16:01:28 <ivan> zakim, aadd is me 16:01:28 <Zakim> +ivan; got it 16:01:33 <Zakim> +David_Wood 16:01:43 <Zakim> + +081165aaee 16:01:53 <moustaki> moustaki has joined #rdf-wg 16:02:04 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone? 16:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, ??P14, David_Wood, +081165aaee 16:02:10 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg 16:02:12 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P14 is me 16:02:12 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it 16:02:13 <AZ> Zakim, aaee is me 16:02:14 <Zakim> +AZ; got it 16:02:25 <Guus> zakim, who is here? 16:02:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, +1.408.992.aabb, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, yvesr, David_Wood, AZ 16:02:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see Souri, yvesr, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, tbaker, gavinc, Guus, Arnaud, davidwood, ivan, gkellogg, MacTed, danbri, cygri, mischat, trackbot, manu, manu1, ericP 16:02:38 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aaff 16:02:45 <Souri> zakim, aaff is me 16:02:45 <Zakim> +Souri; got it 16:02:54 <Guus> zakim, +1.408.992 is Peter 16:02:54 <Zakim> +Peter; got it 16:03:45 <Zakim> +Sandro 16:03:45 <Arnaud> topic Admin 16:03:51 <Arnaud> topic: Admin 16:04:03 <Arnaud> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 24 Oct telecon 16:04:12 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg 16:04:17 <Zakim> +??P22 16:04:19 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: minutes of the 24 Oct telecon accepted 16:04:29 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone? 16:04:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, Tom_Baker, Peter, Guus, gavinc, Arnaud, gkellogg, ivan, yvesr, David_Wood, AZ, Souri, Sandro, ??P22 16:04:37 <pfps> zakim, Peter is me 16:04:37 <Zakim> +pfps; got it 16:04:44 <Arnaud> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of F2F3 16:05:38 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: minutes of F2F3 accepted 16:06:26 <Arnaud> subtopic: Review of action items 16:07:12 <Zakim> +MHausenblas 16:07:16 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me 16:07:16 <Zakim> +cygri; got it 16:07:26 <Arnaud> guus: we need to go over the list of open issues and clean it up 16:07:37 <Arnaud> topic: Reflection on F2F3 16:08:18 <AndyS> Seems like a good idea. 16:08:21 <yvesr> it does 16:08:33 <Arnaud> guus: agenda was more focused on documents, should we do the same for teleconfs? 16:08:39 <davidwood> +1 16:09:01 <Arnaud> guus: hearing no objections, we will go with that 16:09:12 <cgreer> cgreer has joined #rdf-wg 16:09:16 <Arnaud> topic: Turtle LC 16:09:18 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg 16:09:58 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aagg 16:10:05 <Arnaud> gavinc: received one piece of feedback regarding a syntax error, waiting for feedback from I18N 16:10:08 <cgreer> zakim, aagg is me 16:10:09 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it 16:11:39 <Arnaud> guus: need to ensure we get greenlight from Tim 16:11:53 <Arnaud> ... need to write transition request and features at risk 16:11:58 <zwu2> can't dial in for whatever reason... 16:12:31 <davidwood> No comments regarding features at risk is tacit approval... 16:12:42 <Arnaud> guus: need to finalize all comments for next week, and we'll be fine 16:12:46 <gavinc> davidwood, oh then I should comment ;) 16:12:49 <Zakim> +EricP 16:13:31 <Zakim> + +1.603.438.aahh 16:13:54 <zwu2> zakim, +1.603.438.aahh is me 16:13:54 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it 16:15:22 <Arnaud> guus: what about the test suite? 16:15:28 <ericP> ericP: [proposed points in the Turtle SOTD]: 16:15:39 <ericP> ... .. Stable spec (nothing at risk) 16:15:48 <ericP> ... .. deployed for a decade 16:15:56 <Zakim> +??P28 16:16:00 <ericP> ... .. comprehensive test suite 16:16:10 <gavinc> wasn't there an action on ericP to check for coverage? 16:16:16 <ericP> ... .. expect many implementations by the end of CR. 16:16:31 <ericP> gavinc, yep. haven't gotten to it 16:16:45 <AndyS> q+ 16:16:46 <ivan> q+ 16:16:58 <Guus> ack ivan 16:17:17 <Arnaud> ivan: if test cases aren't on w3c this isn't ideal but it's ok 16:17:20 <AndyS> ack me 16:17:32 <Guus> ack AndyS 16:18:20 <gavinc> I think we want them merged 16:18:44 <davidwood> +1 to merging 16:19:00 <gkellogg> q+ 16:19:08 <Arnaud> discussion on whether different test cases should be merged into a consolidated suite 16:19:13 <yvesr> +1 to merging as well 16:19:41 <AndyS> ACTION Andy Put Turtle tests into W3C space. 16:19:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-206 - Put Turtle tests into W3C space. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-11-14]. 16:21:12 <gkellogg> q- 16:21:41 <Arnaud> gavinc: who has the action to write the document introducing the tests? 16:21:55 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg 16:22:04 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaii 16:22:08 <Arnaud> ... at the f2f we agreed to do it but not sure anyone got the action 16:22:32 <Arnaud> guus: needs it to be done for transition 16:23:43 <AndyS> ACTION Andy Do some documentation/README for the tests. 16:23:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-207 - Do some documentation/README for the tests. [on Andy Seaborne - due 2012-11-14]. 16:24:39 <cygri> q+ 16:24:58 <Arnaud> gavinc: should we have links to proper sections in the spec? 16:25:11 <Arnaud> ... useful for implementers 16:25:27 <Guus> ack cygri 16:25:49 <Arnaud> cygri: have seen links to the test suite in the head of the document 16:26:05 <Arnaud> ... makes it easy to find 16:26:12 <ericP> +1 to test suite link in front matter (at least for CR) 16:26:13 <Arnaud> ... doesn't make it normative requirement 16:26:23 <Arnaud> guus: ok, we can discuss this later 16:26:46 <Arnaud> topic: Json-ld #16:26:55 <Zakim> +Sandro.a 16:27:09 <Arnaud> gkellogg: updated issues for what came up at f2f #16:27:10 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:27:22 <Arnaud> ... group elected to go into a feature freeze 16:27:41 <ivan> +1 to a feature freeze 16:27:54 <Arnaud> ... re: syntax, more work on language maps 16:28:26 <Arnaud> ... providing for graph syntax or dataset syntax 16:28:58 <Arnaud> ... preference is not to create different mediatypes 16:29:03 <cygri> using TriG in SPARQL's FROM or FROM NAMED … ouch, my brain! 16:29:27 <Arnaud> ... in the api, lots of feedback, proposal to rename the document as json-ld processing 16:29:39 <Arnaud> ... idl bit could be moved to an appendix 16:29:47 <Arnaud> ... so focus would be on the processing rules 16:29:51 <Guus> q? 16:29:52 <cygri> q+ 16:30:07 <Guus> ack cygri 16:30:18 <Zakim> -David_Wood 16:30:56 <Arnaud> cygri: want to stress the importance of the issue about the default graph 16:31:14 <Arnaud> ... hasn't been properly discussed so far 16:31:21 <sandro> sandro has joined #rdf-wg 16:31:37 <Arnaud> ... wants to get a new draft of concepts out and it would be good to know what it needs to say 16:31:53 <Arnaud> gkellogg: agree 16:31:59 <sandro> +1 cygri: there's serious potential for confusion on this, if we con-neg between turtle and json-ld, and json-ld is also a dataset syntax. 16:32:38 <Arnaud> ... another issue re: concepts, rdf transformation was based on the assumption that concept of quad would be defined, not sure that's the case 16:32:54 <gavinc> N-Quads has something of the same issue 16:33:14 <gavinc> Empty graphs suck :( 16:33:36 <Arnaud> sandro: yes, this would be useful to define 16:34:03 <Arnaud> topic: Review of issue list 16:34:20 <sandro> every dataset without empty named graphs corresponds 1-1 to a set of quads-and-triples, etc. 16:35:55 <Arnaud> cygri: issue-93, think problem is addressed 16:35:59 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/97 16:36:06 <Arnaud> az: yes, that's fine 16:37:54 <Arnaud> az: agree we can close issue-97 16:38:20 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-93 16:38:30 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-97 16:38:49 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/103 16:38:52 <AZ> AZ: we agreed with Pat that we do not have to do anything and close ISSUE-97 16:39:28 <Arnaud> cygri: re: issue-103, pushed back 16:39:39 <cygri> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Nov/0046.html 16:39:48 <Arnaud> ... this is not relevant to concepts 16:39:54 <ivan> q+ 16:39:56 <Arnaud> ... markus accepted 16:40:11 <Guus> ack ivan 16:40:16 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-103 16:40:42 <Arnaud> ivan: since this is about good practice, this should be included in the primer 16:41:12 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/91 16:41:20 <Arnaud> cygri: two more issues could be closed 16:41:45 <Arnaud> ... 91 is mostly editorial issues 16:42:13 <Arnaud> ... believe this can be closed 16:42:25 <Arnaud> ... up to Pat and Gavin to complain if necessary 16:42:34 <gavinc> I'm think those issues are resolved 16:42:41 <Arnaud> guus: gavin? what do you think? 16:42:59 <Arnaud> gavinc: with opening of the new issue that's fine 16:43:09 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-91 16:43:50 <Arnaud> cygri: confused issue-93 with issue-94 earlier 16:44:25 <AZ> anywway, it's ok to close both issues, so no problem 16:44:33 <Zakim> -danbri 16:44:54 <Arnaud> cygri: but believe we can also close 94 16:45:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller] 16:45:23 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-94 16:45:35 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/96 16:46:01 <Arnaud> cygri: made editorial changes to address issue-96 16:46:13 <Arnaud> ... about custom datatypes and adding references 16:46:49 <Arnaud> ... think we can close this too 16:47:35 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close ISSUE-96 16:47:56 <Arnaud> guus: we're left with 19 issues 16:48:11 <Arnaud> cygri: 3 are on concepts 16:48:33 <Arnaud> ... none of them are completely essential for producing a new WD 16:49:03 <cygri> list here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Oct/0234.html 16:49:03 <Arnaud> guus: somebody needs to split the comments per section of the document 16:49:16 <Arnaud> ... any volunteer? 16:49:31 <gavinc> +q new issue on HTMLLiteral 16:49:33 <Arnaud> ... will try to do it next week 16:49:41 <gavinc> +q to ask about a new issue on HTMLLiteral 16:49:55 <Arnaud> guus: what's the timeline for WD? 16:50:09 <Arnaud> cygri: can provide a draft for review for next week 16:50:33 <cygri> s/for next week/in two weeks/ 16:50:51 <Arnaud> :) 16:51:09 <gavinc> q? 16:51:26 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21 16:51:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-208 - Provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21 [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-11-14]. 16:51:33 <cygri> ACTION-208? 16:51:33 <trackbot> ACTION-208 -- Richard Cyganiak to provide draft of Concepts for WG review until 2012-11-21 -- due 2012-11-14 -- OPEN 16:51:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/208 16:51:43 <Arnaud> gavinc: one more question about rdf concepts 16:51:54 <Arnaud> ... tried to implement the new html literal type 16:52:03 <gavinc> https://gist.github.com/4032791 16:52:04 <Arnaud> ... don't think it works 16:52:15 <Zakim> -EricP 16:52:26 <Arnaud> ... doesn't exist a standard way of parsing a fragment of html 16:52:32 <Arnaud> s/of/for/ 16:53:04 <ivan> q+ 16:53:15 <Arnaud> ... don't think we can have htmlliteral rely on parsing an html fragment 16:54:19 <Arnaud> ... in practice you rely need to use an xmlliteral 16:54:28 <Arnaud> s/rely/really/ 16:54:48 <Arnaud> ivan: used htmllib, didn't have any problems 16:54:55 <gavinc> <http://example.org/books/1> dc:description """This is a <em>really</em> cool book"""^^rdf:HTMLLiteral . 16:55:00 <gavinc> becomes <html><head></head><body>This is a <em>really</em> cool book</body></html> 16:55:03 <Arnaud> ... so not sure there is a problem 16:55:39 <Arnaud> ... but had to implement ??? separately 16:56:20 <Zakim> +EricP 16:56:21 <Arnaud> ... htmllib has the concept of html fragment 16:56:30 <Arnaud> ... gets a dom node I can work with 16:56:46 <Arnaud> gavinc: will do more research and post to the mailing list 16:56:58 <Arnaud> guus: any other business? 16:57:13 <Zakim> -ivan 16:57:14 <AZ> bye 16:57:15 <Arnaud> meeting adjourned #16:57:15 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker 16:57:17 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:57:18 <Zakim> -EricP 16:57:18 <Zakim> -cygri 16:57:19 <Zakim> -Souri 16:57:19 <Zakim> -danbri 16:57:20 <Zakim> -pfps 16:57:20 <Zakim> -??P22 16:57:21 <Zakim> -gkellogg 16:57:21 <Zakim> -Arnaud 16:57:23 <Zakim> -yvesr 16:57:23 <Zakim> -AZ 16:57:24 <Zakim> -gavinc 16:57:24 <Zakim> -Guus 16:57:24 <Zakim> -AlexHall 16:57:25 <Zakim> -AndyS 16:57:26 <AlexHall> AlexHall has left #rdf-wg 16:57:29 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg 16:57:39 <gavinc> ivan, yeah this gets to the edges of what currently exists 16:57:50 <Zakim> -zwu2 # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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