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Chatlog 2011-09-21
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16:28:55 <MacTed> scribenick: AZ 16:33:02 <MacTed> chair: David Wood 14:57:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg 14:57:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc 14:57:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:57:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg 14:57:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394 14:57:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 14:57:57 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference 14:57:57 <trackbot> Date: 21 September 2011 14:58:24 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started 14:58:31 <Zakim> +AZ 14:58:39 <Zakim> +bhyland 14:58:55 <davidwood> Zakim, bhyland is me 14:58:55 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it 14:59:23 <Zakim> +gavinc 15:00:18 <Zakim> +??P14 15:00:43 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #rdf-wg 15:01:08 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer 15:01:31 <gavinc> zakim, who is talking 15:01:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is talking', gavinc 15:01:46 <davidwood> Zakim, +P14 is Arnaud 15:01:46 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named '+P14' 15:01:57 <davidwood> Zakim, P14 is Arnaud 15:01:57 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'P14' 15:02:12 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg 15:02:15 <gavinc> zakim, ??P14 is Arnaud 15:02:15 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it 15:02:58 <Zakim> +??P22 15:03:05 <pchampin> +??P22 is me 15:03:17 <Zakim> +??P25 15:03:26 <pchampin> zakim, ??P22 is me 15:03:26 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it 15:03:29 <mischat> Zakim, ??P25 is me 15:03:29 <Zakim> +mischat; got it 15:03:32 <pchampin> zakim, mute me 15:03:32 <Zakim> pchampin should now be muted 15:04:18 <cygri> zakim, what's the code? 15:04:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri 15:04:30 <Zakim> +mhausenblas 15:04:35 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is me 15:04:35 <Zakim> +cygri; got it 15:04:58 <AZ> topic: Admin 15:05:17 <zwu2> zwu2 has joined #rdf-wg 15:05:22 <davidwood> Proposed to accept http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-14 15:05:24 <zwu2> zakim, code? 15:05:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 15:05:38 <AZ> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of the 14 Sep telecon 15:05:58 <Zakim> +zwu2 15:06:03 <AZ> davidwood: The meeting was adjourned before the minutes were issued 15:06:06 <zwu2> zakim, mute me 15:06:06 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted 15:06:10 <mischat> the minutes do state where the telecon adjourned 15:06:43 <AZ> davidwood: we'll close Guus action 15:07:32 <Zakim> +LeeF 15:07:33 <AZ> cygri: will do my action later today 15:08:07 <AZ> topic: FTF planning 15:08:17 <ericP> davidwood, Guus, i'm on another call. RDF WG has dibs so you can ping "ericP" in irc and I'll switch focus 15:08:23 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2 15:09:24 <AZ> davidwood: talks on hotels difficult to find 15:10:09 <AZ> davidwood: we'll have the F2F split in 2 places (EU and US) 15:11:02 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2#Agenda 15:11:08 <cygri> q+ 15:11:25 <AZ> davidwood: we have to figure out 2 things, 15:11:36 <AZ> ...: manage the timezones 15:12:04 <AZ> ...: when London adjourn, we use the time left in Boston to do useful things 15:12:25 <Zakim> -LeeF 15:12:32 <davidwood> ack cygri 15:12:33 <AZ> ...: we make progress on the RDF primer 15:12:55 <AZ> cygri: I was surprised by the strong titles in the agenda 15:13:21 <AZ> ... I wasn't expecting the two would work apart 15:13:37 <gavinc> Issue seems to be that far more people will be in London then in Boston :\ 15:13:40 <AZ> ... there are advantages in doing that, more stuff gets done, 15:13:51 <AZ> .... but advantages having shared time 15:14:07 <AZ> ... we should maximise shared time 15:14:36 <pchampin> +1 to try to align schedule as much as possible 15:14:37 <AZ> davidwood: I hope we can get in MIT earlier 15:14:47 <mischat> cygri: i agree too, but iirc yvesr_ and NickH mentioned that there was end time to when we had to get out of their buildings 15:14:52 <gavinc> there are 5 solid confirmations in Boston, and 11 in London 15:15:06 <AZ> ... and we can't be in BBC late 15:15:14 <LeeF> I'm sorry that my phone has decided to act up, but I wanted to say that I'm not sure that a group editing of the primer will be a good way to edit the primer. I think we might be more successful identifying goals for the updated primer and then enlisting 1 or 2 editors to do the actual updating. 15:15:31 <AZ> ... the current agenda is (sort of) a worst case scenario 15:15:58 <AZ> cygri: currently, we'll adjourn in London at 5pm 15:16:04 <Zakim> +LeeF 15:16:04 <mischat> cygri++ 15:16:13 <AZ> ... we could shift everything 2 hours backward 15:16:45 <davidwood> Yves Raimond 15:16:47 <davidwood> (BBC) 15:17:01 <mischat> davidwood: to email yvesr_ about how late we can stay at the BBC's london location 15:17:13 <AZ> ACTION: david to mail Yves if we can get to BBC later 15:17:13 <trackbot> Created ACTION-90 - Mail Yves if we can get to BBC later [on David Wood - due 2011-09-28]. 15:17:20 <mischat> davidwood, LeeF had a point above 15:17:23 <LeeF> q+ 15:17:30 <cygri> q+ 15:17:31 <davidwood> ack LeeF 15:18:20 <AZ> LeeF: we should get consensus on what to put in Primer then assign writing to 2 people 15:18:42 <Zakim> -LeeF 15:18:52 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Editors 15:18:57 <mischat> editors doc ^^ 15:19:20 <Zakim> +LeeF 15:19:22 <AZ> davidwood: with neither editors of Primer on the call we can't really decide how to proceed wrt Primer 15:19:49 <LeeF> Great! (i was just confused by what it said in the agenda) 15:19:54 <davidwood> ack cygri 15:19:58 <AZ> ...: we will just suggest updates for Primer at the Boston meeting 15:20:24 <AZ> cygri: we should spend time on the documents the WG has to update and produce 15:20:54 <davidwood> Changed agenda wording for the RDF Primer task 15:21:01 <AZ> ... a number of documents have not yet been touch in terms of editing 15:21:16 <LeeF> I will attend at MIT - I didn't realize I wasn't already on the list. Sorry! 15:21:40 <AZ> ... it's not clear what's going to happen wrt the JSON document 15:21:58 <AZ> ... we should discuss the JSON doc at the meeting 15:22:14 <AZ> davidwood: there should be someone reviewing the JSON doc 15:22:24 <AZ> ... and present the review to the group on the ML 15:23:03 <AZ> cygri: there was a decision at the F2F1 that we have 2 documents 15:23:21 <AZ> ... is there still this consensus? 15:23:29 <mischat> zakim, who is on the call? 15:23:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see AZ, davidwood, gavinc, Arnaud, Scott_Bauer, pchampin (muted), mischat, cygri, zwu2 (muted), LeeF 15:23:41 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 15:23:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:23:49 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 15:23:51 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 15:23:51 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 15:24:41 <AZ> davidwood: we have 2 actions to do for the F2F: 15:24:54 <AZ> ... 1. whether BC can be accessible late and; 15:25:03 <AZ> ... 2. review JSON LD 15:25:04 <MacTed> s/BC/BBC/ 15:25:40 <davidwood> TO DO for the Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F2#Agenda 15:25:45 <mischat> i was wrong about a json-ld review, I was thinking of all the json-ld related chat on the mailing list that is all 15:26:05 <AZ> davidwood: I'll update the agenda accordingly 15:26:20 <AZ> topic: Liaison with Provenance WG 15:26:32 <AZ> davidwood: there was a telecon last Thursday 15:26:47 <AZ> ... there is a mailing list for RDF / Prov liaison 15:27:00 <AZ> public-rdf-prov@lists.w3.org 15:27:10 <mischat> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-prov/ 15:27:22 <AZ> ... anyone interested in Graph TF should take a look and join the discussions 15:27:26 <mischat> and the minutes to the meeting last week http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-15 15:28:06 <AZ> ... the Prov WG make good progress but it's not clear exactly there use cases 15:28:30 <davidwood> Discussed http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC 15:28:59 <AZ> ... we (RDF WG) have a provenance use case 15:29:01 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs-UC#Provenance_Use_Cases 15:29:12 <AZ> s/a provenance use case/provenance use cases/ 15:29:38 <AZ> ... we need an agreement on the g-* terminology 15:29:48 <mischat> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Graph_Terminology 15:29:53 <AZ> ... it must be fixed after the F2F2 15:29:55 <mischat> g-box 15:30:35 <AZ> ... the Prov WG is waiting for our final terminology 15:30:41 <Arnaud> got it, thanks 15:30:42 <AZ> ... and they need their final use cases 15:31:04 <davidwood> q? 15:31:45 <AZ> topic: Status RDF Dataset proposal 15:32:31 <AZ> davidwood: Richard, can you answer Sandro's criticism wrt the Dataset proposal? 15:33:05 <davidwood> Sandro's criticism: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2011-09-14#RDF_Dataset_proposal 15:33:06 <AZ> ... in the minutes of the last meeting 15:33:51 <AZ> cygri: the proposal is not based on use cases, but based on SPARQL specs 15:34:20 <AZ> ... these concepts are already implemented in SPARQL graph stores 15:34:31 <AZ> ... this addresses a lot of use cases 15:34:50 <AZ> ... but it's worth looking at it in more details 15:35:15 <AZ> ... we have to define what cannot be addressed by the proposal 15:35:52 <AZ> ... People who think it is not sufficient should point out which use cases are not addressed 15:37:15 <pchampin> q+ to ask a question to Richard about the dataset proposal 15:37:18 <AZ> ... I still think that the proposal is enough for all use cases 15:38:21 <AZ> davidwood: we are not sure the prov use case we have are use cases for the Prov WG (?) 15:38:23 <mischat> q? 15:39:19 <AZ> ... we need Sandro to discuss his criticism and he's not here 15:39:47 <pchampin> +1 to Richard 15:39:51 <AZ> cygri: versioning is related somehow to provenance too 15:39:54 <davidwood> q? 15:39:57 <pchampin> ack me 15:39:59 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to ask a question to Richard about the dataset proposal 15:40:02 <davidwood> ack pchampin 15:40:05 <cygri> ACTION: cygri to respond to Sandro's trust use case 15:40:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Respond to Sandro's trust use case [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2011-09-28]. 15:40:45 <AZ> Pierre-Antoine: in the dataset proposal, things are very specific to queries 15:40:54 <AZ> ... eg, default graph 15:41:25 <AZ> ... shouldn't we clear the proposal from this focus (which comes from SPARQL) 15:41:47 <AZ> cygri: true, default graph comes from SPARQL and may not be necessary 15:42:25 <AZ> ... it's still open to discussion whether to keep it 15:42:47 <AZ> ... but it's good to take what SPARQL has and make as little changes as possible 15:43:42 <AZ> ... if we diverge from SPARQL, we should have a good explanation for it 15:44:38 <AZ> pchampin: I agree but some things in the Dataset proposal seem strange from RDF pov 15:45:04 <gavinc> The strange thing to me is that there can't be more then one ;) 15:45:16 <AZ> cygri: pchampin, if something seems weird, please find a cocnrete example to explain the reason 15:45:21 <davidwood> q? 15:45:22 <AZ> pchampin: I'll do that 15:46:15 <AZ> davidwood: we may not be able to address the tagged literals issue 15:46:27 <davidwood> <mailto:public-rdf-prov@w3.org> 15:46:33 <AZ> ... everyone, please discuss the F2F agenda, 15:46:36 <davidwood> ^^ Please join if you are interested in graphs 15:46:45 <MacTed> what's the link/address by which to join? 15:47:00 <AZ> ... and join the Prov / RDF ML if interested in graphs 15:47:06 <gavinc> <public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org> SUBSCRIBE 15:47:07 <mischat> public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org Subject: subscribe 15:47:18 <gavinc> NOT the mailing list address 15:47:19 <zwu2> q+ 15:47:27 <MacTed> -request is key! we don't want 17 "subscribe" messages going to the list... 15:47:29 <cygri> q+ to mention R2RML last call 15:47:32 <zwu2> zakim, unmute me 15:47:32 <Zakim> zwu2 should no longer be muted 15:47:44 <davidwood> ack zwu 15:48:18 <MacTed> <mailto:public-rdf-prov-request@w3.org?subject=SUBSCRIBE> 15:48:20 <MacTed> that will work 15:48:33 <AZ> zwu2: is it possible to change the schedule a bit to have more overlapping time 15:48:40 <davidwood> ack cygri 15:48:40 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to mention R2RML last call 15:48:53 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/TR/r2rml/ 15:48:57 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdb-direct-mapping/ 15:49:01 <AZ> cygri: RDB2RDF has turned their docs to last call 15:49:44 <AZ> ... we invite comments, especially open questions, 15:50:10 <AZ> ... 1. whether the mapping language require a specific syntax or should it be just a vocabulary 15:50:51 <AZ> ... 2. how to get to specific parts of URIs 15:51:55 <AZ> ... There are also issues related to Turtle etc wrt punctuation 15:52:19 <davidwood> q? 15:52:43 <AZ> davidwood: we'll adjourn (early due to lack of participants) 15:53:34 <AZ> davidwood: cygri, please discuss Sandro's criticism and bring this to the list 15:54:05 <gavinc> <People/ID-7> rdf:type <People> . 15:55:52 <Zakim> -zwu2 15:55:54 <Zakim> -MacTed 15:55:55 <Zakim> -cygri 15:55:55 <Zakim> -gavinc 15:55:57 <Zakim> -davidwood 15:55:57 <Zakim> -mischat 15:55:59 <Zakim> -Arnaud 15:56:04 <pchampin> bye all 15:56:05 <Zakim> -Scott_Bauer 15:56:20 <davidwood> RRSAgent, make minutes 15:56:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html davidwood 15:56:24 <mischat> :) 15:56:28 <Zakim> -pchampin 15:56:29 <Zakim> -AZ 15:57:05 <davidwood> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:57:17 <Zakim> -LeeF 15:57:18 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended 15:57:20 <Zakim> Attendees were AZ, davidwood, gavinc, Scott_Bauer, Arnaud, pchampin, mischat, cygri, zwu2, LeeF, MacTed 16:07:16 <AZ> argh, the scribe was not specified 16:07:49 <AZ> the generated minutes are not ok 16:09:23 <mischat> should do the trick 16:17:15 <danbri> danbri has joined #rdf-wg 16:18:26 <mischat> can you not go in and edit the editable logs and add `scribe: XXXX and scribenick: XXX` 16:18:29 <mischat> AZ: ? 16:28:55 <MacTed> scribenick: AZ 16:29:01 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:29:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html MacTed 16:29:56 <MacTed> that may be enough... 16:31:02 <MacTed> chair: davidwood 16:31:05 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes 16:31:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html MacTed 16:31:47 <MacTed> RRSAgent, help 16:32:53 <gavinc> RRSAgent isn't what we use for Minutes BTW 16:33:02 <MacTed> chair: David Wood 16:33:12 <MacTed> bah. 16:33:49 <MacTed> competing systems that do the same thing... I loves them! :-/ 16:37:16 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting 16:37:16 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees 16:37:16 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 16:37:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:37:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot 16:37:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye 16:37:18 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-actions.rdf : 16:37:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: david to mail Yves if we can get to BBC later [1] 16:37:18 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc#T15-17-13 16:37:18 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cygri to respond to Sandro's trust use case [2] 16:37:18 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/21-rdf-wg-irc#T15-40-05 # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000237