Chatlog 2011-02-16

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<sandro> topic: (before meeting: identifying people on the phone)
<sandro> scribe: sandro
<sandro> present: Alex_Hall, Andy_Seaborne, Antoine_Zimmermann, Axel_Polleres, Christopher_Matheus, David_Wood, Fabien_Gandon, Gavin_Carothers, Guus_Schreiber, Ivan_Herman, Jean-François_Baget, Jeremy_Carroll, Lee_Feigenbaum, Manu_Sporny, Matteo_Brunati, Mischa_Tuffield, Nathan_Rixham, Nicholas_Humfrey, Olivier_Corby, Patrick_Hayes, Peter_Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine_Champin, Richard_Cyganiak, Sandro_Hawke, Scott_Bauer, Souripriya_Das, Steve_Harris, Thomas_Steiner, Yves_Raimond, Zhe_Wu
<sandro> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Feb/0018.html 
<sandro> summary: The conference bridge uses Caller ID and can usually remember who people are from one call to the next.  If Caller ID doesn't work, there are a few other techniques.
15:54:47 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
#15:54:54 <Zakim> +Tony
15:54:59 <Azimmerm> Azimmerm has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:04 <mischat_> mischat_ has joined #rdf-wg
15:55:23 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:55:23 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
#15:55:24 <Zakim> -Tony
#15:55:24 <Zakim> +Tony
15:55:24 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:55:38 <Zakim> +[Garlik]
15:55:48 <SteveH> Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat 
15:55:48 <Zakim> +SteveH, mischat; got it
15:55:57 <mischat_> zakim, mute me
15:55:57 <Zakim> sorry, mischat_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:56:03 <Zakim> + +1.347.243.aaaa
15:56:33 <Azimmerm> zakim, +1.347.243.aaaa is me
15:56:33 <Zakim> +Azimmerm; got it
15:56:39 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise
15:56:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is making noise', mischat
15:56:50 <Azimmerm> zakim, mute me
15:56:50 <Zakim> Azimmerm should now be muted
15:56:53 <Zakim> +Bernadette
15:57:03 <SteveH> Zakim, who is speaking
15:57:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is speaking', SteveH
15:57:23 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise? 
15:57:34 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tony (57%), [Garlik] (57%), Ivan (42%)
15:57:42 <mischat> zakim, mute me
15:57:42 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:57:43 <Zakim> +PatH
15:57:46 <davidwood> Zakim: Bernadette is David Wood
15:57:55 <mischat> zakim, mute [Garlik]
15:57:55 <Zakim> [Garlik] should now be muted
15:58:07 <phayes3> I hear a magic dragon
15:58:21 <mischat> zakim, Barnadette is temporarily davidwood 
15:58:21 <Zakim> sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named 'Barnadette'
15:58:32 <Zakim> + +1.650.917.aabb
15:58:40 <davidwood> Zakim, Bernadette is davidwood
15:58:40 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
15:58:51 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
15:59:18 <pfps> Hmm, heavy breathing .... brings back fond memories of OWL WG teleconferences
15:59:18 <Zakim> +??P11
15:59:27 <pfps> zakim, who am i
15:59:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who am i', pfps
15:59:30 <Zakim> +??P12
15:59:32 <mbrunati> mbrunati has joined #rdf-wg
15:59:40 <AndyS> zakim, ??P11 is AndyS
15:59:40 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:59:48 <AlexHall> AlexHall has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:12 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:13 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:00:17 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:00:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, +1.650.917.aabb, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro
16:00:20 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:00:24 <Zakim> + +1.408.642.aacc
16:00:26 <Zakim> + +20598aadd
16:00:29 <dieter> dieter has joined #rdf-wg
16:00:37 <pfps> please don't identify yourself on the call
16:00:46 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aaee
16:00:57 <Zakim> +??P27
16:01:04 <Zakim> +Souri
16:01:14 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, ??P27 is me
16:01:14 <Zakim> +JeremyCarroll; got it
16:01:16 <sandro> zakim, aabb is Gavin
16:01:16 <Zakim> +Gavin; got it
16:01:28 <zwu2> zakim, aacc is me
16:01:28 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
16:01:30 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:01:31 <Zakim> +??P25
16:01:35 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, mute me
16:01:35 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted
16:01:39 <Guus> Guus has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:06 <Souri> who is on the phone?
16:02:16 <Souri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, +20598aadd, +1.443.212.aaee,
16:02:18 <pfps> zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:19 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, ??P25
16:02:21 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:02:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, +20598aadd, +1.443.212.aaee,
16:02:24 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, ??P25
16:02:25 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:02:34 <Zakim> +??P30
16:02:35 <Zakim> +LeeF
16:02:37 <manu1> manu1 has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:37 <sandro> zakim, aaee is Alex_Hall
16:02:37 <Zakim> +Alex_Hall; got it
16:02:55 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:56 <Zakim> + +43.664.812.aaff
16:02:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, +20598aadd, Alex_Hall, JeremyCarroll
16:03:04 <tomayac_> i'm dialing in via skype using the us number, no idea at all what number this uses...
16:03:04 <Zakim> ... (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30, LeeF, +43.664.812.aaff
16:03:06 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:03:07 <Zakim> + +34.67.92.aagg
16:03:12 <AndyS> but does not remember skype calls
16:03:19 <mbrunati> i'm here from the fr number
16:03:24 <sandro> zakim, aaff is JFB 
16:03:24 <Zakim> +JFB; got it
16:03:32 <moustaki> moustaki has joined #rdf-wg
16:03:52 <sandro> zakim, +20598aadd is Guus
16:03:52 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:03:54 <Zakim> + +33.4.92.38.aahh
16:04:00 <tomayac_> i'm physically in belgium, not sure if skype uses a belgian number then
16:04:14 <Zakim> +cygri
16:04:25 <Zakim> +??P10
16:04:25 <cygri> cygri has joined #rdf-wg
16:04:32 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P10
16:04:32 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
16:04:35 <tomayac_> btw. the french number refused my passcode
16:04:40 <sandro> zakim, is +33.4.92.38.aahh is JeanFrancois
16:04:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is +33.4.92.38.aahh is JeanFrancois', sandro
16:04:45 <corby> Zakim, aahh is me
16:04:45 <Zakim> +corby; got it
16:04:45 <tomayac_> the same code worked on the us number
16:04:46 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:04:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, Guus, Alex_Hall, JeremyCarroll
16:04:48 <sandro> zakim, is aahh is JeanFrancois
16:04:48 <phayes3> the breathing dragon is back.
16:04:49 <Zakim> ... (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30, LeeF, JFB, +34.67.92.aagg, corby, cygri, manu1
16:04:50 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:04:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is aahh is JeanFrancois', sandro
16:04:58 <sandro> zakim, iaahh is JeanFrancois
16:04:58 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'iaahh'
16:05:02 <sandro> zakim, aahh is JeanFrancois
16:05:02 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:05:04 <gavinc> gavinc has joined #rdf-wg
16:05:05 <mbrunati> maybe i'm ??P12
16:05:10 <Zakim> +??P18
16:05:31 <NickH> NickH has joined #rdf-wg
16:05:34 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:05:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, Guus, Alex_Hall, JeremyCarroll
16:05:36 <ivan> zakim, JFB is Dieter
16:05:37 <Zakim> ... (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30, LeeF, JFB, +34.67.92.aagg, corby, cygri, manu1, ??P18
16:05:39 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:05:39 <Zakim> +Dieter; got it
16:05:56 <tomayac_> probably me
16:05:58 <tomayac_> 34
16:06:02 <sandro> zakim, aagg tomayac_ 
16:06:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aagg tomayac_', sandro
16:06:06 <sandro> zakim, aagg is tomayac_ 
16:06:06 <Zakim> +tomayac_; got it
16:06:06 <mischat> 34 == spain
16:06:14 <pfps> sandro needs to relearn how to type.
#16:06:36 <sandro> queue=
16:06:40 <NickH> zakim, ?P18 is BBC
16:06:40 <Zakim> sorry, NickH, I do not recognize a party named '?P18'
16:06:46 <NickH> zakim, ??P18 is BBC
16:06:46 <Zakim> +BBC; got it
16:06:49 <phayes3> Oh, this is SO like old times...
16:06:54 <NickH> BBC is both me and yves
16:06:55 <SteveH> q-
16:06:58 <phayes3> :-)
16:07:00 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:07:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2, Guus, Alex_Hall, JeremyCarroll
16:07:04 <Zakim> ... (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30, LeeF, Dieter, tomayac_, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC
16:07:06 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:07:10 <LeeF> zakim, BBC has NickH, Yves
16:07:10 <Zakim> +NickH, Yves; got it
16:07:21 <Zakim> + +34.92.38.aaii
16:07:36 <AndyS> ack AndyS
16:07:39 <SteveH> q-
16:07:39 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, mute me
16:07:41 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted
16:07:45 <JeremyCarroll> q-
16:07:47 <JFB> zakim, JFB is Jean-François Baget
16:07:49 <AndyS> q-
16:07:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'JFB is Jean-François Baget', JFB
16:07:59 <SteveH> q-
16:08:00 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
16:08:00 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
16:08:08 <pfps> zakim doesn't appear to be Unicode capable
16:08:18 <Zakim> +wcandillon
16:08:20 <NickH> zakim, BBC has NickH, yvesr
16:08:20 <Zakim> NickH was already listed in BBC, NickH
16:08:21 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:08:24 <SteveH> q=
16:08:32 <SteveH> queue=
16:08:37 <mischat> Mischa Tuffield 
16:08:42 <mischat> from Garlik
16:08:49 <FabGandon> Zakim, +34.92.38.aaii is FabGandon
16:08:49 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
16:08:55 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:08:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2 (muted), Guus, Alex_Hall, JeremyCarroll
16:08:58 <Zakim> ... (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30 (muted), LeeF, Dieter, tomayac_, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC, FabGandon, wcandillon
16:09:01 <Zakim> BBC has yvesr
16:09:01 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:10:07 <sandro> zakim, Tony is Scott_Bauer
16:10:07 <Zakim> +Scott_Bauer; got it
16:10:15 <pfps> chris matheus is on the call as one of the ??
16:10:29 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:10:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, zwu2 (muted), Guus, Alex_Hall,
16:10:31 <mbrunati> i'm not listed i think
16:10:32 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, ??P25, ??P30 (muted), LeeF, Dieter, tomayac_, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC, FabGandon, wcandillon
16:10:34 <Zakim> BBC has yvesr
16:10:34 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:10:39 <zwu2> zakim, zwu2 is Zhe Wu
16:10:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'zwu2 is Zhe Wu', zwu2
16:10:54 <tomayac_> nope
16:10:56 <tomayac_> not my hand
16:10:57 <zwu2> zakim, zwu2 is Zhe_Wu
16:10:58 <Zakim> +Zhe_Wu; got it
16:11:05 <sandro> zakim, tomayac_ is JeanFrancois
16:11:05 <Zakim> +JeanFrancois; got it
16:11:12 <LeeF> pfps, I think it's just that zakim is not whitespace capable :-)
16:11:31 <gavinc> zakim, gavinc is Gavin
16:11:31 <Zakim> sorry, gavinc, I do not recognize a party named 'gavinc'
16:11:32 <tomayac_> done
16:11:33 <sandro> zakim, ??P25 is tomayac_ 
16:11:33 <Zakim> +tomayac_; got it
16:11:39 <LeeF> queue=
16:11:45 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
16:11:50 <pfps> we hear the ocean
16:11:50 <mischat> zakim, who is making noise?
16:11:51 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:11:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, Gavin, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, ??P12, Sandro, Zhe_Wu (muted), Guus, Alex_Hall,
16:11:54 <gavinc> zakim, Gavin is gavinc
16:11:55 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, tomayac_, ??P30 (muted), LeeF, Dieter, JeanFrancois, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC, FabGandon, wcandillon
16:11:55 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rdf-wg
16:11:57 <Zakim> BBC has yvesr
16:11:57 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:11:58 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
16:11:59 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (4%), Sandro (15%), wcandillon (10%)
16:12:07 <Zakim> mischat, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Scott_Bauer (41%), Sandro (80%), ??P30 (5%), wcandillon (75%)
16:12:15 <pfps> chris, can you do the 41# trick?
16:12:19 <cmatheus> sure
16:12:29 <Zakim> +??P40
16:12:32 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
16:12:33 <sandro> zakim, ??P12 is cmatheus 
16:12:33 <Zakim> +cmatheus; got it
16:12:33 <pfps> zakim, ??P12 is cmatheus
16:12:34 <Zakim> I already had ??P12 as cmatheus, pfps
16:12:34 <LeeF> zakim, ??P12 is cmatheus
16:12:34 <Zakim> I already had ??P12 as cmatheus, LeeF
16:12:39 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??P40
16:12:39 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
16:12:51 <pfps> q-
16:12:53 <pfps> q-
16:12:58 <pchampin> whay should I dial to get muted?
16:12:58 <LeeF> q- ??P12
16:13:30 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone 
16:13:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', pfps
16:13:39 <pfps> zakim, who is on the call?
16:13:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, gavinc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, cmatheus, Sandro, Zhe_Wu (muted), Guus, Alex_Hall,
16:13:40 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
16:13:43 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, tomayac_, ??P30, LeeF, Dieter, JeanFrancois, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC, FabGandon, wcandillon, webr3, AxelPolleres
16:13:46 <Zakim> BBC has yvesr
16:13:46 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:13:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see Scott_Bauer, Ivan, [Garlik] (muted), Azimmerm (muted), davidwood, PatH, gavinc, Peter_Patel-Schneider, AndyS, cmatheus, Sandro, Zhe_Wu (muted), Guus, Alex_Hall,
16:13:52 <Zakim> ... JeremyCarroll (muted), Souri, tomayac_, ??P30, LeeF, Dieter, JeanFrancois, corby, cygri, manu1, BBC, FabGandon, wcandillon, webr3, AxelPolleres
16:13:54 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:13:55 <Zakim> BBC has yvesr
16:13:55 <Zakim> [Garlik] has SteveH, mischat
16:14:26 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to ask about how to get Wiki login
16:14:50 <LeeF> JeremyCarroll, I just used my W3C login -- does that not work for you?
16:15:01 <gavinc> Doesn't work for me either :(
16:15:13 <JeremyCarroll> We joined yesterday
16:15:27 <LeeF> Ah
16:15:33 <phayes3> Jeremy, it takes a while. Keep trying. 
16:15:42 <JeremyCarroll> ok
16:13:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome and introductions" taken up [from davidwood]
<sandro> Summary: David, Guus, and Sandro introduce themselves
16:13:59 <NickH> zakim, BBC has NickH, yvesr
16:13:59 <Zakim> yvesr was already listed in BBC, NickH
16:14:01 <Zakim> +NickH; got it
16:14:41 <sandro> davidwood: We've heard a lot of voices so far, so lets not go around the room
16:14:55 <sandro> davidwood: Hopefully everyone has done their wiki+email introductions
16:15:09 <sandro> davidwood: I'm David Wood, co-chairing this group with Guus.
16:15:15 <sandro> Guus: Hi, I'm Guus
16:15:32 <sandro> davidwood: We also have Ivan Herman and Sandro Hawke
16:15:49 <pfps>  all:  please, no music on hold (ever) and turn off cell phone ringers
16:15:50 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:15:50 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, davidwood
16:15:56 <davidwood> q?
16:16:00 <sandro> sandro: Hi, I'm the guy who was doing most of the identifying people on the phone
16:16:06 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, unmute me
16:16:06 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should no longer be muted
16:16:22 <sandro> JeremyCarroll: For me and Gavin, the login on the wiki doesn't work.
16:16:30 <mbrunati> zakim, mute me
16:16:30 <Zakim> sorry, mbrunati, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:16:46 <sandro> sandro: please email
16:16:51 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, mute me
16:16:51 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted
16:16:51 <mbrunati> yeah, i'm calling throw fr number
16:17:01 <JeremyCarroll> q-
16:17:01 <AndyS>  Also: #sysreq for infrastructure problems - they are very helpful  They had to incant magic for me to login to wiki (now works)
16:17:10 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:17:10 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WG meeting schedule, especially telecon times and first ftf." taken up [from davidwood]
<sandro> Summary: Teleconferences are Wednesdays 11am US/Eastern, for up to 90 minutes (but will usually be about 60).  First face-to-face is 13-14 April in Amsterdam.
16:17:14 <sandro> davidwood: If anyone else has wiki trouble, please email sandro@w3.org after the call.
16:17:32 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:17:38 <davidwood>  Wiki: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Main_Page
16:17:45 <sandro> davidwood: Teleconferences are at this time, every week.      We're going to try to document everything on the wiki.  Please use it.
16:18:06 <sandro> davidwood: First Face-to-Face scheduled, at CWI in Amsterdam, on 13-14 April
16:18:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:18:23 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1
16:18:28 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
16:18:28 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:18:38 <davidwood> q?
16:18:42 <sandro> davidwood: You are not required to attend, but "good standing" does require attending one-in-three
16:18:48 <AxelPolleres> as for the F2F, will remote access/attendance on the phone be possible?
16:18:58 <ivan> There are already some details on the F2F on the wiki: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F1
16:19:07 <sandro> guus: We plan to do the main technical work in the first year, but the main bulk, I expect will be in the first year.   By 2012 we should be largely done.   
16:19:21 <phayes3> Can you clarify what percentage of F2F attendance is needed to keep good standing? Missing one of one seems like 100% :-(
16:19:35 <sandro> davidwood: So that makes the first face to face meetings particularly important.   If at all possible, please attend at least one of these first two.
16:20:02 <AlexHall> bad standing = miss 2 out of 3 consecutive f2f
16:20:09 <phayes3> missing the first seems to guarantee mssing one of three, no?
16:20:11 <sandro> sandro: I don't thikn we'll need to use goodstanding/badstanding.
16:20:15 <phayes3> OK, whatever.
16:20:17 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:20:17 <Zakim> agendum 3. "WG procedures (e.g. scribes, use of wiki, mailing lists and editing tools)" taken up [from davidwood]
<sandro> summary: we'll use the wiki and mailing lists a lot; someone needs to scribe each meeting (see the schedule), tools for spec-writing TBD
16:20:18 <AndyS> +1 to AxelPolleres -- and split site has worked well in SPARQL-WG - more people attend
16:20:35 <AxelPolleres> q? to ask about remote attendance/facilities
16:20:40 <davidwood> Scribe assignments are posted at:
16:20:40 <davidwood>   http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
16:20:42 <sandro> davidwood: We have a plan to use a rotating list of scribes
16:20:48 <AxelPolleres> q+ to ask about remote attendance/facilities
16:21:02 <davidwood> Please check the list to see when you are scheduled to scribe.  Let the chairs and the alternate scribe know if you cannot scribe on your assigned day.
16:21:16 <sandro> We'll try that list.     If you can't scribe on that day, please talk to the chairs AND the alternate.
16:22:04 <sandro> davidwood: use 61# to mute yourself, and 60# to unmute yourself
16:22:35 <pfps> putting up an etiquette for phone meetings would be useful
16:22:37 <sandro> davidwood: We'd like to use the wiki fairly heavily.    Mediawiki search isn't all the wonderful.    Do try to link pages in, since search isn't great.
16:22:50 <ivan> zakim, mute me
16:22:50 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
16:22:54 <sandro> davidwood: We'll talk about editing tools.     Feel free to use wiki
16:23:14 <sandro> davidwood: mailing lists:   public-rdf-wg@w3.org will be the mail list for our discussions.  Please use that list for most things.
16:24:02 <sandro> davidwood: Also: member-rdf-wg@w3.org for W3C-Member-Confidential materials
16:25:01 <pfps> who *doesn't* have their phone number on the web already?
16:25:06 <davidwood> q?
16:25:10 <ivan> :-)
16:25:15 <sandro> sandro: I find it's good for phone numbers, that sort of personal details
16:25:35 <ivan> q+
16:25:35 <Souri> +1 to Axel
16:25:43 <davidwood> q?
16:25:43 <sandro> AxelPolleres: For the SPARQL Face-to-face meetings, we had a good experience with split meetings using a videoconferencing link.
16:25:49 <AxelPolleres> ack
16:25:52 <AxelPolleres> ack me
16:25:52 <Zakim> AxelPolleres, you wanted to ask about remote attendance/facilities
16:25:54 <ivan> ack ivan 
16:25:54 <Azimmerm> +1 to Axel
16:25:56 <gavinc> +1 to Axel
16:26:17 <sandro> ivan: We don't have the right equipment at CWI, so this wont work for the first F2F in April.
16:26:23 <sandro> davidwood: We'll explore it for later ones.
16:26:32 <AxelPolleres> ivan, but there'll be dial-in, right?
16:26:34 <pfps> I think that video splitting is not a great idea for the first F2F - it would work better later
16:26:54 <sandro> davidwood: To get started on schedule, we needed to schedule F2F1 right away.
16:27:03 <davidwood> q?
16:27:09 <AxelPolleres> +1 to pfps, for 1st f2f it might be a bad idea.
16:27:16 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:27:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "WG production schedule (review of major dates and deliverables in the Charter)" taken up [from davidwood]
<sandro> Summary: We have a lot to do, and most of it in the next year
16:27:20 <sandro> ivan: I've asked about dialin; it should be possible; not set yet.
16:27:33 <sandro> davidwood: Our schedule is fairly aggressive.
16:27:34 <ivan> zakim, mute me
16:27:34 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
16:27:51 <sandro> davidwood: Working Draft in *MAY* on our milestones.
16:28:03 <sandro> davidwood: Primer and test cases a bit later.
16:28:17 <sandro> davidwood: We'll talk about task forces later this call
16:29:07 <phayes3> RDF is so simple, should only take a couple of weeks. 
16:29:09 <sandro> sandro: How long will today's meeting be?
16:29:20 <LeeF> Is that every week or just today?
16:29:43 <sandro> davidwood: targetting 75 minutes in general.   Today we may wrap up within the hour.
16:30:05 <sandro> Guus: I'm hoping we'll regularly finish within an hour, but we want to be able to extend.
16:30:16 <davidwood> Zakim, next agendum
16:30:16 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Establishment of initial task forces.  We need task forces for the obligatory pieces of work: Subgraphs, Turtle, JSON" taken up [from davidwood]
<sandro> Summary: We are starting three task forces, to address some of the major work areas.  Please continue via email and wiki.
16:30:29 <Guus> q?
16:30:41 <manu1> Subgraphs == Named Graphs/Graph Literals ?
16:30:53 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF_interests
16:31:00 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
16:31:00 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
16:31:11 <ivan> q+
16:31:12 <sandro> davidwood: Ivan looked at people's introductions to get a first guess at which TFs they might be interested in
16:31:52 <sandro> ivan: Many people on that list, I know have other interests/knowledge -- I *just* used the wiki introductions.
16:32:23 <LeeF> sandro +1 
16:32:30 <LeeF> ack ivan
16:33:00 <sandro> sandro: I don't think it's worth editing this page; instead lets do a page per task force with names on it.
16:33:17 <phayes3> Damn, I just edited it.
16:33:34 <yvesr> us too :)
16:33:45 <sandro> Guus: All TF communications go through list, and most docussions on telecon.   We are one group.
16:33:45 <davidwood> No harm done
16:34:13 <sandro> Guus: But TFs can schedule additional telecons as necessary.   But all decisions are group decision.
16:34:27 <phayes3> Will TF discussions be visibleto the rest of the WG, or will there be a need to schedule reports-back?
16:34:34 <sandro> Guus: So you don't need to join the TF just because you care.
16:34:47 <phayes3> Ah, already answered, sorry.
16:35:05 <sandro> davidwood: Some TFs will take more time than others.       So it can figure out if it needs telecons
16:35:43 <AndyS> Are we marking email? e.g. [JSON] -- I find it helps
16:35:51 <phayes3> +1 webr3
16:35:54 <davidwood> AndyS. +1
16:36:01 <zwu2> +1 to AndyS
16:36:08 <pchampin> +1 to AndyS
16:36:08 <phayes3> LeeF: cut/paste works
16:36:51 <sandro> Guus: David and I will alternate chairing.   Next week, lets go through the three task forces, see if we've identified the right material, and see how we start moving discussion forward.   And then see if there's a need for a main point of contact for the TF.
16:36:59 <mischat> +1 webr3 
16:37:12 <sandro> davidwood: Nathan raises the dependency between the TFs.
16:37:19 <sandro> Guus: Let's wait until next week.
16:37:36 <ivan> q+
16:38:08 <sandro> Guus: These three issues are not the only issues in the group, of course
16:38:12 <ivan> q-
16:38:17 <phayes3> Side remark, we could spend a month discussing what to discuss. We could just get on with it and fix the problems when they arise.
16:38:17 <sandro> Guus: I'll make pages for each task force
16:38:19 <ivan> q+
16:38:35 <webr3> phayes +1
16:38:56 <sandro> davidwood: everyone, please sign up for whichever task forces you are particularly interested in.   zero or more.
16:39:14 <sandro> davidwood: We need to make sure we have the right mix of skillsets in the groups.
16:39:25 <davidwood> q?
16:39:26 <Guus> q?
16:39:29 <sandro> davidwood: We need to know if we need to invite in some more experts.
16:39:32 <ivan> ack ivan
16:40:07 <sandro> ivan: Those task forces do not cover everything we are supposed to do.   We have some jobs, not even the time permitting ones.
16:40:23 <mbrunati> :)
16:40:30 <JFB> +1
16:40:31 <sandro> sandro: for instance deprecation
16:40:33 <LeeF> RDF Primer 
16:40:35 <phayes3> Will all work be done by TFs? Or will the WG have some tasks to do?
16:40:39 <sandro> ivan: mistakes, errata, cleanup, IRIs
16:40:39 <yvesr> one additional task force with 'everything else'?
16:40:57 <sandro> guus: a number of cleanup measures.   maybe a cleanup TF.
16:41:11 <LeeF> There are a bunch of different skill sets involved in "clean up", so I don't think it should be lumped together.
16:41:16 <sandro> q?
16:41:29 <yvesr> LeeF: +1
16:41:38 <phayes3> repeat question: is the idea that all actual work must have a TF to do it?
16:42:02 <sandro> davidwood: Let's take the week to see how to slice up the charter into TFs.
16:42:04 <phayes3> Or will the WG as a whole be doing some actual technical work?
16:42:28 <sandro> Guus: Yeah, Lee's point is part of why I don't think we need TFs for everything.    Some work wont be in TFs.
16:42:51 <Guus> yes, that's my view
16:43:04 <sandro> davidwood: initial items: establish these three TFs, and figure out how to break up other items -- discuss in email. 
16:43:16 <davidwood> q?
16:43:17 <phayes3> I have an uncomfortable feeling that the TF/WG dynamics might absorb a lot of our energy unless we are aware of the potential danger. 
16:43:31 <JeremyCarroll> q+ to ask on meeting times
16:43:44 <gavinc> +1 Graphs
16:43:45 <pchampin> +1 for [GRAPHS]
16:43:52 <FabGandon> +1 for GRAPHS
16:43:54 <manu1> +1 for Graphs
16:44:13 <sandro> sandro: is there some simple tag name we can use for the 3rd tf, like "graphs", knowing full well that's just a tag, and not really the name of the problem.
16:44:17 <webr3> I suggest: with cleanup items, make a list of them, people can take actions to do the very first run at it, then that'll get the ball rolling quickly - who know, somebody might get it right first time - each cleanup item == 1 task ?
16:44:30 <davidwood> Mark messages [JSON], [TURTLE], [GRAPH]
16:44:37 <JFB> +1 for graphs
16:44:44 <sandro> s/GRAPH/GRAPHS/
16:45:06 <davidwood> q?
16:45:09 <JeremyCarroll> ack
16:45:16 <davidwood> ack JeremyCarroll
16:45:17 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll, you wanted to ask on meeting times
16:45:52 <sandro> PatH: marking messages with a label, as long as you can mark with several labels.    Some things will cross labels.
16:45:57 <sandro> q+
16:46:10 <sandro> davidwood: No objection to multiple markings
16:46:30 <sandro> Guus: agreed, but we need some way to subdivide the work.
16:46:44 <sandro> Guus: all discussions in eye of full WG
16:46:45 <AndyS> [TTL] [JS] [G] -- just as helpers (no one remembers to mark every time .... until after the message is sent)
16:47:10 <sandro> JeremyCarroll: procedural -- will we discuss when to have meetings?
16:47:47 <manu1> Why don't we figure out when to have the meetings over http://doodle.com/
16:47:50 <sandro> sandro: The chairs did this by fiat, without making it open for discussion
16:48:01 <manu1> Once we figure out who is in which Task Force
16:48:02 <sandro> Guus: the options were very, very limited.
16:48:05 <webr3> manu1, it's already decided afaik [at this time, on zakim]
16:48:09 <pfps> although WG chairs may have to make such decisions, it would have been nice to have some information feeding into the decision
16:48:09 <JeremyCarroll> Zakim, mute me
16:48:09 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted
16:48:16 <davidwood> q?
16:48:20 <sandro> q-
16:48:21 <davidwood> ack sandro
16:48:42 <sandro> Guus: For first f2f we had to do the same -- for future ones we'll set up straw polls
16:48:51 <AndyS> q+
16:48:57 <sandro> davidwood: That's it for today's agenda
16:48:59 <davidwood> ack AndyS
16:49:03 <manu1> webr3 - huh, thanks - I missed that.
16:49:05 <sandro> AndyS: regrets for next week.
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