14:57:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/17-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:57:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:57:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:57:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes ←
14:57:05 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:57:05 <trackbot> Date: 17 October 2012
15:01:40 <davidwood> Zakim, this is rdfwg
David Wood: Zakim, this is rdfwg ←
15:01:40 <Zakim> ok, davidwood; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, davidwood; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:01:56 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aacc ←
15:02:10 <Zakim> -??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←
15:02:18 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P6, GavinC, Arnaud, +1.540.538.aaaa, +31.20.598.aabb, OpenLink_Software, AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P6, GavinC, Arnaud, +1.540.538.aaaa, +31.20.598.aabb, OpenLink_Software, AlexHall ←
15:02:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see AlexHall, Zakim, RRSAgent, davidwood, pchampin, Arnaud, tbaker, AndyS, Guus, gkellogg, MacTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, manu1, mischat, trackbot, ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AlexHall, Zakim, RRSAgent, davidwood, pchampin, Arnaud, tbaker, AndyS, Guus, gkellogg, MacTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, manu1, mischat, trackbot, ericP ←
15:02:30 <davidwood> Zakim, aaaa is me
David Wood: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +davidwood; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood; got it ←
15:02:31 <tbaker> zakim, IPcaller is probably me
Thomas Baker: zakim, IPcaller is probably me ←
15:02:31 <Zakim> +tbaker?; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tbaker?; got it ←
15:02:34 <Guus> zakim, +31.20 is me
Guus Schreiber: zakim, +31.20 is me ←
15:02:34 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus; got it ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:02:39 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P8
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P8 ←
15:02:39 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:02:46 <pchampin> Zakim, ??P6 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: Zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:02:47 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:02:57 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:02:58 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:02:58 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:03:20 <davidwood> Chair: David Wood
15:03:30 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:54 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd ←
15:03:59 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:04:49 <davidwood> Scribe: Thomas Baker
(Scribe set to Thomas Baker)
15:04:58 <davidwood> scribenick: tbaker
15:05:10 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
15:05:13 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 Oct telecon:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 10 Oct telecon: ←
15:05:13 <davidwood>
15:05:13 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-10-10
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-10-10 ←
15:05:24 <davidwood> RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 Oct telecon:
David Wood: RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 10 Oct telecon: ←
15:05:24 <davidwood>
15:05:24 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-10-10
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-10-10 ←
15:05:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:05:44 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me ←
15:05:44 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:06:08 <tbaker> Topic:Review of action items
15:06:38 <davidwood> Topic: FTF3
15:06:38 <tbaker> Topic: Next meeting
15:06:49 <davidwood> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/FTF3#Agenda
15:06:59 <davidwood> Objectives - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F3-objectives
David Wood: Objectives - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/F2F3-objectives ←
15:07:39 <tbaker> David: Feel free to object - a work in progress. Concept: focus on the documents we want to produce, bring them closer to publication.
David Wood: Feel free to object - a work in progress. Concept: focus on the documents we want to produce, bring them closer to publication. ←
15:08:38 <tbaker> ...JSON and Turtle. Intention: go through documents, identify where we have immediate actions, what Notes we might want to produce. Formalize that process. Comments?
...JSON and Turtle. Intention: go through documents, identify where we have immediate actions, what Notes we might want to produce. Formalize that process. Comments? ←
15:09:02 <AndyS> Looked OK to me (but I'm not at F2F3!)
Andy Seaborne: Looked OK to me (but I'm not at F2F3!) ←
15:09:10 <gavinc> heh, it's still 1:15am to 9am :D
Gavin Carothers: heh, it's still 1:15am to 9am :D ←
15:09:35 <tbaker> ... To people who intend to attend remotely from West Coast: trying to keep the schedule reasonable.
... To people who intend to attend remotely from West Coast: trying to keep the schedule reasonable. ←
15:10:12 <davidwood> Topic: Provenance Constraints Review
15:10:14 <tbaker> Topic: Provenance Constraints
15:10:31 <MacTed> MacTed has changed the topic to: RDF-WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.17
Ted Thibodeau: MacTed has changed the topic to: RDF-WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/ -- current agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.10.17 ←
15:10:43 <PatH> thanks to tbaker, im having trouble hearing.
Patrick Hayes: thanks to tbaker, im having trouble hearing. ←
15:10:46 <tbaker> David: We need to get back to the Prov WG - have to tell the WG something. I'd like to circulate a proposal and see if we can agree.
David Wood: We need to get back to the Prov WG - have to tell the WG something. I'd like to circulate a proposal and see if we can agree. ←
15:10:54 <tbaker> ...Volunteers to create such a proposal?
...Volunteers to create such a proposal? ←
15:11:22 <ericP> q+ to ask our current geek confidence on the mapping of bundles back and forth to named graphs
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to ask our current geek confidence on the mapping of bundles back and forth to named graphs ←
15:11:38 <davidwood> ack ericP
David Wood: ack ericP ←
15:11:38 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to ask our current geek confidence on the mapping of bundles back and forth to named graphs
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to ask our current geek confidence on the mapping of bundles back and forth to named graphs ←
15:11:49 <tbaker> ... Hoping to see something with a bit more guidance than [X].
... Hoping to see something with a bit more guidance than a negative response. ←
15:12:14 <davidwood> s/[X]/a negative response/
15:12:25 <tbaker> Eric: What is our current confidence on how well bundles can be represented in NGs and how well NGs support the semantics that bundles would benefit from?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: What is our current confidence on how well bundles can be represented in NGs and how well NGs support the semantics that bundles would benefit from? ←
15:12:52 <tbaker> ... No particular guidance to represent NGs as things that can be re-used as bundles.
... No particular guidance to represent NGs as things that can be re-used as bundles. ←
15:12:59 <sandro> q+ to address gbox/gsnap
Sandro Hawke: q+ to address gbox/gsnap ←
15:13:13 <tbaker> David: GBox versus GSnap. Because they capture a state in time: snaps.
David Wood: GBox versus GSnap. Because they capture a state in time: snaps. ←
15:13:23 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
15:13:23 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to address gbox/gsnap
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to address gbox/gsnap ←
15:13:30 <tbaker> Eric: Librarians think of Snaps and invite other identifiers for Boxes.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Librarians think of Snaps and invite other identifiers for Boxes. ←
15:14:00 <tbaker> Sandro: They think as static Boxes - distinction doesn't matter.
Sandro Hawke: They think as static Boxes - distinction doesn't matter. ←
15:14:33 <tbaker> ... What they do in their examples is make it a Web page - technically mutable, but "don't change it". GBox.
... What they do in their examples is make it a Web page - technically mutable, but "don't change it". GBox. ←
15:15:02 <tbaker> ... Don't think the GBox/Gsnap distinction matters in Provenance context. They are thinking about as immutable.
... Don't think the GBox/Gsnap distinction matters in Provenance context. They are thinking about as immutable. ←
15:15:11 <ericP> +1 to "they're thinkg of it as immutable"
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1 to "they're thinkg of it as immutable" ←
15:15:29 <tbaker> David: In agenda, limited guidance on serializing RDF databasets, serializing as Trig.
David Wood: In agenda, limited guidance on serializing RDF databasets, serializing as Trig. ←
15:15:35 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:15:56 <tbaker> Pat: My reading of Box - their chief interest is being able to refer to them in RDF.
Patrick Hayes: My reading of Box - their chief interest is being able to refer to them in RDF. ←
15:16:09 <tbaker> Sandro: Disagree. We're not endorsing, but not forbidding.
Sandro Hawke: Disagree. We're not endorsing, but not forbidding. ←
15:16:21 <tbaker> Pat: But we're not saying we're imposing that interpretation.
Patrick Hayes: But we're not saying we're imposing that interpretation. ←
15:16:23 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:16:23 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:16:56 <tbaker> Ted: Been in both groups. Qst is more: is Prov in conflict with what we are doing? I think not - mostly it complements and overlaps.
Ted Thibodeau: Been in both groups. Qst is more: is Prov in conflict with what we are doing? I think not - mostly it complements and overlaps. ←
15:17:27 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:17:45 <tbaker> David: ...which is why we can get back with a statement - guidance that it is complementary as long as they are thinking of their immutable bundles as RDF datasets that could be serailized with one of our forthcoming mechanisms.
David Wood: ...which is why we can get back with a statement - guidance that it is complementary as long as they are thinking of their immutable bundles as RDF datasets that could be serailized with one of our forthcoming mechanisms. ←
15:17:56 <tbaker> Sandro: But they use plain Turtle or RDFa.
Sandro Hawke: But they use plain Turtle or RDFa. ←
15:18:03 <tbaker> David: They may not know about new ones.
David Wood: They may not know about new ones. ←
15:18:32 <tbaker> Eric?: If someone publishes a bunch of graphs, without re-writing, can be consider it to be a bundle?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: If someone publishes a bunch of graphs, without re-writing, can be consider it to be a bundle? ←
15:18:43 <tbaker> Sandro: Described inside?
Sandro Hawke: do you mean the name graphs inside the dataset as being bundles? ←
15:18:47 <davidwood> s/Eric?/Eric/
15:19:20 <sandro> s/Described inside?/do you mean the name graphs inside the dataset as being bundles?/
15:19:30 <tbaker> Eric: Probably. Sure - you can write down whatever you want in graphs probably not as useful as ... [...]
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Probably. Sure - you can write down whatever you want in graphs probably not as useful as ... [...] ←
15:20:03 <tbaker> Sandro: Any guidance we give must be crisp. We are muddy enough. Suggest specific wording changes.
Sandro Hawke: Any guidance we give must be crisp. We are muddy enough. Suggest specific wording changes. ←
15:21:06 <tbaker> ... I'm not ready to suggest such a change. Maybe suggest that a tutorial or note show examples. We could commit to that. Just an idea.
... I'm not ready to suggest such a change. Maybe suggest that a tutorial or note show examples. We could commit to that. Just an idea. ←
15:21:12 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:21:15 <sandro> sandro: We could offer to include a prov/dataset example in some future document we do.
Sandro Hawke: We could offer to include a prov/dataset example in some future document we do. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:22:05 <tbaker> Sandro: More concrete: that we will include Prov dataset examples in one of our documents - one that talks about datasets.
Sandro Hawke: More concrete: that we will include Prov dataset examples in one of our documents - one that talks about datasets. ←
15:22:07 <tbaker> David: Primer?
David Wood: Primer? ←
15:22:09 <Guus> yes, should be Primer
Guus Schreiber: yes, should be Primer ←
15:22:13 <tbaker> Guus: Definitely.
Guus Schreiber: Definitely. ←
15:22:19 <sandro> sandro: I suggest that at least one of our examples of datasets use prov.
Sandro Hawke: I suggest that at least one of our examples of datasets use prov. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:23:03 <Guus> q+
Guus Schreiber: q+ ←
15:23:07 <ericP> PROPOSAL: all datasets (e.g. Trig documents) can be described as PROV Bundles
PROPOSED: all datasets (e.g. Trig documents) can be described as PROV Bundles ←
15:23:10 <tbaker> Pat: Prov world is strange. Examples could be misleading.
Patrick Hayes: Prov world is strange. Examples could be misleading. ←
15:23:12 <sandro> +1 PatH there's a danger that Prov's complexity confuses people trying to use datasets....
Sandro Hawke: +1 PatH there's a danger that Prov's complexity confuses people trying to use datasets.... ←
15:23:32 <davidwood> ack Guus
David Wood: ack Guus ←
15:23:45 <tbaker> Guus: I thought that, but starting to appreciate. So as long as we give context on purpose of vocabulary, okay to use.
Guus Schreiber: I thought that, but starting to appreciate. So as long as we give context on purpose of vocabulary, okay to use. ←
15:24:00 <sandro> ericP, Bundle==graph; set of Bundles== dataset, I *think(
Sandro Hawke: ericP, Bundle==graph; set of Bundles== dataset, I *think( ←
15:24:01 <AndyS> Agree with Pat :: -1 to prov as examples -- stick to something more universally understood (one example, yes; not the main theme)
Andy Seaborne: Agree with Pat :: -1 to prov as examples -- stick to something more universally understood (one example, yes; not the main theme) ←
15:24:26 <tbaker> David: Would hurt community to ignore Prov. In implementer world, everyone maintains provenance info for things they call NGs. Guidance we provide will affect implementations.
David Wood: Would hurt community to ignore Prov. In implementer world, everyone maintains provenance info for things they call NGs. Guidance we provide will affect implementations. ←
15:24:44 <tbaker> ... Interested why Andy agrees with Pat on this.
... Interested why Andy agrees with Pat on this. ←
15:24:54 <PatH> prov =/= Prov.
Patrick Hayes: prov =/= Prov. ←
15:25:31 <tbaker> Andy: Prov used, but WG has taken a particular slice of provenance space - could confuse people who see "provenance" differently.
Andy Seaborne: Prov used, but WG has taken a particular slice of provenance space - could confuse people who see "provenance" differently. ←
15:25:50 <tbaker> ... Simple: "this was created by Bob".
... Simple: "this was created by Bob". ←
15:25:59 <sandro> sandro: let's get behind Prov for provenance.
Sandro Hawke: let's get behind Prov for provenance. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:26:22 <PatH> No, lets read Prov first and see if it makes sense.
Patrick Hayes: No, lets read Prov first and see if it makes sense. ←
15:26:33 <tbaker> Eric: They came up with "simplistic provenance". You can say as much or little as you know, that's fine. Do not need to use the most complex example.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: They came up with "simplistic provenance". You can say as much or little as you know, that's fine. Do not need to use the most complex example. ←
15:27:01 <tbaker> David: If we cannot provide guidance, we could hasten Prov demise (see Powder).
David Wood: If we cannot provide guidance, we could hasten Prov demise (see Powder). ←
15:27:27 <Zakim> + +1.408.992.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.992.aaee ←
15:27:50 <tbaker> ... Suppose people were to implement Prov independently of what we do. Does this implement things in the wild that would make Pat uncomfortable?
... Suppose people were to implement Prov independently of what we do. Does this implement things in the wild that would make Pat uncomfortable? ←
15:27:52 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:28:18 <tbaker> ... We seem to have widening gulf between RDF/LD/OWL... implementations and the model theory. Wonder if Prov's adoption forces that.
... We seem to have widening gulf between RDF/LD/OWL... implementations and the model theory. Wonder if Prov's adoption forces that. ←
15:29:22 <tbaker> Pat: No. My problem with Prov, personally: littered with philosophical claims off-base. Example of car disappearing here, appearing there. Prov has thrown away Snap/Box.
Patrick Hayes: No. My problem with Prov, personally: littered with philosophical claims off-base. Example of car disappearing here, appearing there. Prov has thrown away Snap/Box. ←
15:30:43 <ericP> i think PatH's issue is that they specifically address static states. we in RDF land have identifiers for dynamic objects (like the state of a car).
Eric Prud'hommeaux: i think PatH's issue is that they specifically address static states. we in RDF land have identifiers for dynamic objects (like the state of a car). ←
15:30:58 <tbaker> Eric: Either you misread, or didn't read far enough. One thing we struggled with: start with physical example before getting to ethereal stuff of Web. Thing / Representation / Alternatie Repns / Serializations... scary. Tree -> Chair -> Auction - a clear track.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Either you misread, or didn't read far enough. One thing we struggled with: start with physical example before getting to ethereal stuff of Web. Thing / Representation / Alternatie Repns / Serializations... scary. Tree -> Chair -> Auction - a clear track. ←
15:31:18 <AndyS> s.Eric.MacTed.
Andy Seaborne: s.Eric.MacTed. ←
15:31:26 <tbaker> ... Provenance of that stuff is the focus. That model can be applied to ethereal, but unclear.
... Provenance of that stuff is the focus. That model can be applied to ethereal, but unclear. ←
15:32:24 <tbaker> Pat: Main critique, backing off a bit: result is complicated and will therefore quietly die. Will be in philosophical debates until end of time.
Patrick Hayes: Main critique, backing off a bit: result is complicated and will therefore quietly die. Will be in philosophical debates until end of time. ←
15:33:07 <tbaker> Eric: You can do scruffy instead of complex. If you only know X, say that. But if you have the details, can be used.
Ted Thibodeau: You can do scruffy instead of complex. If you only know X, say that. But if you have the details, can be used. ←
15:33:10 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:33:16 <tbaker> Pat: Still think it will not be used in practice.
Patrick Hayes: Still think it will not be used in practice. ←
15:33:36 <ericP> s/Eric: You can do scruffy/MacTed: You can do scruffy/
15:33:46 <tbaker> Andy: Putting Prov on the critical path? Would reopen all the NG things.
Andy Seaborne: Putting Prov on the critical path? Would reopen all the NG things. ←
15:34:12 <tbaker> Sandro: Proposal only to use Prov vocab for Prov examples.
Sandro Hawke: Proposal only to use Prov vocab for Prov examples. ←
15:34:27 <tbaker> Andy: All datasets can be described as bundles [??].
Andy Seaborne: All datasets can be described as bundles [??]. ←
15:35:04 <tbaker> Eric: Datasets can be expressed via Prov - wanted to test. They invent snaps for the car in its intermediate states.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Datasets can be expressed via Prov - wanted to test. They invent snaps for the car in its intermediate states. ←
15:35:32 <tbaker> Andy: Keep them simple. If we get into discussing cars, rather have nothing.
Andy Seaborne: Keep them simple. If we get into discussing cars, rather have nothing. ←
15:35:52 <tbaker> Eric: Net determination: context-dependent - sounds like our...
Ted Thibodeau: Net determination: context-dependent - sounds like our... ←
15:35:57 <sandro> PROPOSED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we imagine it; we wish them well, but don't see much we can practically do to help.
PROPOSED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we imagine it; we wish them well, but don't see much we can practically do to help. ←
15:36:02 <tbaker> Andy: On issue of examples....
Andy Seaborne: On issue of examples.... ←
15:36:10 <ericP> s/Eric: Net determination:/MacTed: Net determination:/
15:36:15 <davidwood> It seems to me that the PROV docs suggest something more akin to periodic or occasional state measurements. You make a snap when you want one.
David Wood: It seems to me that the PROV docs suggest something more akin to periodic or occasional state measurements. You make a snap when you want one. ←
15:36:28 <tbaker> Sandro: Do we have consensus on this? We do not see conflict with RDF 1.1 but do not see much to do to help.
Sandro Hawke: Do we have consensus on this? We do not see conflict with RDF 1.1 but do not see much to do to help. ←
15:36:28 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:36:39 <PatH> +1 sandro
Patrick Hayes: +1 sandro ←
15:37:12 <tbaker> David: Really like to see some kind of suggestion from us that we understand bundles in relation to Datasets and GSnaps.
David Wood: Really like to see some kind of suggestion from us that we understand bundles in relation to Datasets and GSnaps. ←
15:37:18 <Guus> +1 in spirit, but phrasing pls a bit more neutral
Guus Schreiber: +1 in spirit, but phrasing pls a bit more neutral ←
15:37:31 <tbaker> Sandro: Do not see us getting closer.
Sandro Hawke: Do not see us getting closer. ←
15:37:54 <tbaker> Guus: I'll try to rephrase.
Guus Schreiber: I'll try to rephrase. ←
15:38:07 <AndyS> We can help with one or two simple examples but are then asking them to write them? write any example they want?
Andy Seaborne: We can help with one or two simple examples but are then asking them to write them? write any example they want? ←
15:38:17 <tbaker> Scribe: Thomas Baker
15:38:23 <tbaker> Scribenick: tbaker
15:38:24 <MacTed> PROPOSED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we currently imagine it. If a suitable example is eventually included in our docs, we will try to use PROV output therein.
PROPOSED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we currently imagine it. If a suitable example is eventually included in our docs, we will try to use PROV output therein. ←
15:38:42 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:38:52 <Guus> +1
Guus Schreiber: +1 ←
15:38:55 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
15:38:55 <tbaker> tbaker: +1
Thomas Baker: +1 ←
15:39:04 <pchampin> +1
15:39:05 <Arnaud> +1
Arnaud Le Hors: +1 ←
15:39:11 <pfps> +0.5
Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.5 ←
15:39:12 <gkellogg> +0
Gregg Kellogg: +0 ←
15:39:14 <PatH> tbaker, many thnx. I have rock/hardplace: typing requires I use speaker, can't hear words on speaker :-(
Patrick Hayes: tbaker, many thnx. I have rock/hardplace: typing requires I use speaker, can't hear words on speaker :-( ←
15:39:30 <tbaker> ACTION: Guus to send resolved text to Prov WG.
ACTION: Guus to send resolved text to Prov WG. ←
15:39:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-192 - Send resolved text to Prov WG. [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-10-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-192 - Send resolved text to Prov WG. [on Guus Schreiber - due 2012-10-24]. ←
15:39:33 <PatH> +1
Patrick Hayes: +1 ←
15:39:50 <davidwood> RESOLVED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we currently imagine it. If a suitable example is eventually included in our docs, we will try to use PROV output therein.
RESOLVED: We reply to the Prov WG that we don't see any technical incompatibilities between their work and RDF 1 or RDF 1.1 as we currently imagine it. If a suitable example is eventually included in our docs, we will try to use PROV output therein. ←
15:40:08 <davidwood> Topic: Turtle Tests
15:40:21 <davidwood> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/jena/Experimental/riot-reader/testing/RIOT/Lang/
David Wood: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/jena/Experimental/riot-reader/testing/RIOT/Lang/ ←
15:40:30 <tbaker> David: Andy did good work on Turtle tests.
David Wood: Andy did good work on Turtle tests. ←
15:40:45 <gavinc> Yay, thanks AndyS! Tests are awesome (even if it involves Perl)... lets move on!
Gavin Carothers: Yay, thanks AndyS! Tests are awesome (even if it involves Perl)... lets move on! ←
15:41:48 <PatH> Impressive :-)
Patrick Hayes: Impressive :-) ←
15:41:49 <tbaker> Andy: Done as much as I planned. They are all syntax-only tests. Keeping the structure of... produce Ntriples. Need to be checked. Used vocab, pre-SPARQL.
Andy Seaborne: Done as much as I planned. They are all syntax-only tests. Keeping the structure of... produce Ntriples. Need to be checked. Used vocab, pre-SPARQL. ←
15:42:30 <tbaker> David: Gavin, you have outstanding actions re: internationalization.
David Wood: Gavin, you have outstanding actions re: internationalization. ←
15:42:44 <tbaker> Gavin: Editors agree on language tag stuff.
Gavin Carothers: Editors agree on language tag stuff. ←
15:42:55 <tbaker> Eric: Am writing it up as we speak.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Am writing it up as we speak. ←
15:43:13 <tbaker> ... I'm free to send to X group as long as Gavin and I agree, right?
... I'm free to send to X group as long as Gavin and I agree, right? ←
15:43:23 <tbaker> ... will report back what I sent.
... will report back what I sent. ←
15:44:01 <tbaker> Guus: Responses from commenters?
Guus Schreiber: Responses from commenters? ←
15:44:06 <tbaker> Gavin: None.
Gavin Carothers: None. ←
15:44:22 <tbaker> Guus: Prod - silence is consent.
Guus Schreiber: Prod - silence is consent. ←
15:44:30 <tbaker> Gavin: Happy to do.
Gavin Carothers: Happy to do. ←
15:44:51 <davidwood> Topic: TriG Syntax
15:44:52 <tbaker> Guus: Re: timing: have something by....
Guus Schreiber: Re: timing: have something by.... ←
15:45:21 <davidwood> Discuss whether in our dataset syntax, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST or MAY be surrounded by curly braces.
David Wood: Discuss whether in our dataset syntax, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST or MAY be surrounded by curly braces. ←
15:45:22 <davidwood> Related question: How can a human tell a Turtle document from a TriG document?
David Wood: Related question: How can a human tell a Turtle document from a TriG document? ←
15:45:31 <tbaker> David: Leftover from several weeks ago. Curly braces in default graphs. Did we cover?
David Wood: Leftover from several weeks ago. Curly braces in default graphs. Did we cover? ←
15:45:38 <tbaker> Sandro: Not covered yet.
Sandro Hawke: Not covered yet. ←
15:45:51 <tbaker> Unknown person XXX says 'but emerging consensus on "MUST"'.
Unknown person gkellogg says 'but emerging consensus on "MUST"'. ←
15:45:55 <tbaker> David: Propose this?
David Wood: Propose this? ←
15:46:01 <gavinc> PROPOSED: In TriG, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST be surrounded by curly braces.
PROPOSED: In TriG, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST be surrounded by curly braces. ←
15:46:05 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:46:11 <sandro> +0
Sandro Hawke: +0 ←
15:46:20 <PatH> +/-0
Patrick Hayes: +/-0 ←
15:46:25 <sandro> (oops! meant 0)
Sandro Hawke: (oops! meant 0) ←
15:46:31 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
15:46:33 <AndyS> +0.9
Andy Seaborne: +0.9 ←
15:46:36 <tbaker> tbaker: 0
Thomas Baker: 0 ←
15:46:39 <Arnaud> 0
Arnaud Le Hors: 0 ←
15:46:41 <davidwood> +0
David Wood: +0 ←
15:46:41 <gkellogg> +0
Gregg Kellogg: +0 ←
15:46:42 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
15:46:46 <ericP> +.5
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +.5 ←
15:47:05 <MacTed> {+1}
Ted Thibodeau: {+1} ←
15:47:10 <AndyS> zakim, it's between zero and one
Andy Seaborne: zakim, it's between zero and one ←
15:47:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'it's between zero and one', AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'it's between zero and one', AndyS ←
15:47:12 <PatH> Zakim has a sense of humor?
Patrick Hayes: Zakim has a sense of humor? ←
15:47:38 <davidwood> RESOLVED: In TriG, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST be surrounded by curly braces.
RESOLVED: In TriG, triples of the dataset's default graph MUST be surrounded by curly braces. ←
15:48:13 <davidwood> PROPOSED: Implementations that parse and store information from TriG documents MAY turn the TriG default graph into a named graph with a name chosen in an implementation-dependent way.
PROPOSED: Implementations that parse and store information from TriG documents MAY turn the TriG default graph into a named graph with a name chosen in an implementation-dependent way. ←
15:48:37 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
15:48:40 <tbaker> David: Next proposal.... Came from discussion with implementers re: how they wanted to handle things.
David Wood: Next proposal.... Came from discussion with implementers re: how they wanted to handle things. ←
15:48:43 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
15:49:05 <AndyS> q+ to ask why is this is decision we need to make
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask why is this is decision we need to make ←
15:49:18 <tbaker> Pat: Can hear the worms in the can. When you change default graph to named graph, do you have a new dataset?
Patrick Hayes: Can hear the worms in the can. When you change default graph to named graph, do you have a new dataset? ←
15:50:00 <tbaker> Sandro: Pragmatic thing: if I send you a dataset, reasonable to load one that differs in this way. If we had a tool to load a dataset from a Trig file, would be part of conformance.
Sandro Hawke: Pragmatic thing: if I send you a dataset, reasonable to load one that differs in this way. If we had a tool to load a dataset from a Trig file, would be part of conformance. ←
15:50:15 <tbaker> Pat: To me, sounds like implmementation weeds. Should not even be discussing.
Patrick Hayes: To me, sounds like implmementation weeds. Should not even be discussing. ←
15:50:17 <gavinc> +1 to not talking about this
Gavin Carothers: +1 to not talking about this ←
15:50:40 <tbaker> Sandro: Like RDF Contexts - when you skolemize... But agree it is about impelmentn details.
Sandro Hawke: Like RDF Concepts 1.1 - when you skolemize... But agree it is about impelmentn details. ←
15:50:50 <sandro> s/Contexts/Concepts 1.1/
15:51:02 <davidwood> ack AndyS
David Wood: ack AndyS ←
15:51:02 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask why is this is decision we need to make
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask why is this is decision we need to make ←
15:51:07 <tbaker> Pat: Easy to read as saying that it is same dataset when you make this change, or that they are operationally indistinguishable...
Patrick Hayes: Easy to read as saying that it is same dataset when you make this change, or that they are operationally indistinguishable... ←
15:52:06 <tbaker> Andy: Don't understand why we need to mention this possible. When you send data to someone, they may do something with it. Add extra triples. An expectation. Trig is about moving data from A to B.
Andy Seaborne: Don't understand why we need to mention this possible. When you send data to someone, they may do something with it. Add extra triples. An expectation. Trig is about moving data from A to B. ←
15:52:34 <tbaker> David: Can we turn on head and say that when a serialin is parsed, it becomes a new dataset? Saying this?
David Wood: Can we turn on head and say that when a serialin is parsed, it becomes a new dataset? Saying this? ←
15:52:39 <tbaker> Sandro: Don't like.
Sandro Hawke: Don't like. ←
15:53:05 <davidwood> Isn't that what PatH and AndyS just proposed?
David Wood: Isn't that what PatH and AndyS just proposed? ←
15:53:10 <gavinc> +q to ask Sandro or whoever added this proposal WHY we need to say this?
Gavin Carothers: +q to ask Sandro or whoever added this proposal WHY we need to say this? ←
15:53:27 <tbaker> ... Let's look at what test suite would say about Trig. Conformant Trig parser - turns default graph into NG. Will that pass test suite??
... Let's look at what test suite would say about Trig. Conformant Trig parser - turns default graph into NG. Will that pass test suite?? ←
15:53:40 <tbaker> ... Close enough?
... Close enough? ←
15:53:57 <tbaker> Andy: Define what we have done by [] a document from one place to another.
Andy Seaborne: Define what we have done by [] a document from one place to another. ←
15:54:15 <tbaker> Sandro: Not advocating, just trying to understand.
Sandro Hawke: Not advocating, just trying to understand. ←
15:54:22 <sandro> sandro: I'm not actually advocating this, just trying to understand it.
Sandro Hawke: I'm not actually advocating this, just trying to understand it. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:54:46 <PatH> we defined graph equivalence so we could talk about that re-identifying blank nodes. I would like us to define something like that for this, if we decide it.
Patrick Hayes: we defined graph equivalence so we could talk about that re-identifying blank nodes. I would like us to define something like that for this, if we decide it. ←
15:54:56 <sandro> +1 PatH
Sandro Hawke: +1 PatH ←
15:55:01 <tbaker> David: Original proposal came from Ivan. Stand by my comment. Didn't appear out of nowhere. Not sure we need to make a decision about this. "Minus-zero-ish" about this.
David Wood: Original proposal came from Ivan. Stand by my comment. Didn't appear out of nowhere. Not sure we need to make a decision about this. "Minus-zero-ish" about this. ←
15:55:10 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:55:20 <davidwood> ack gavinc
David Wood: ack gavinc ←
15:55:20 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask Sandro or whoever added this proposal WHY we need to say this?
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to ask Sandro or whoever added this proposal WHY we need to say this? ←
15:55:25 <gavinc> ack
Gavin Carothers: ack ←
15:56:16 <sandro> manu, manu1, gkellogg, are you up for discussing how JSON-LD might handle or not handle the idea of a default graph?
Sandro Hawke: manu, manu1, gkellogg, are you up for discussing how JSON-LD might handle or not handle the idea of a default graph? ←
15:56:36 <gkellogg> sure
Gregg Kellogg: sure ←
15:56:49 <tbaker> Pat: [see comment above) - If we are going to allow a modification to a dataset to "not count" under certain circumstances, then we should define what we mean by equivalence.
Patrick Hayes: [see comment above) - If we are going to allow a modification to a dataset to "not count" under certain circumstances, then we should define what we mean by equivalence. ←
15:56:52 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:56:56 <gavinc> eh, that's not part of TriG
Gavin Carothers: eh, that's not part of TriG ←
15:57:26 <tbaker> ... Not sure why anyone would want to do this to graphs. We as spec writers should define equivalence relation btw datasets and clean up.
... Not sure why anyone would want to do this to graphs. We as spec writers should define equivalence relation btw datasets and clean up. ←
15:58:12 <tbaker> Sandro: Idea is to try to not force everyone to implement full datasets with datasets, but also quad stores (without default graphs) - though they can easily be added.
Sandro Hawke: Idea is to try to not force everyone to implement full datasets with datasets, but also quad stores (without default graphs) - though they can easily be added. ←
15:58:53 <tbaker> Unknown person says "Algorithm places triples into default graph, but language in terms of quads where fourth position is empty if you are not in the context of a NG."
Unknown person says "Algorithm places triples into default graph, but language in terms of quads where fourth position is empty if you are not in the context of a NG." ←
15:58:57 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
15:59:11 <gavinc> s/XXX/gkellogg
15:59:19 <tbaker> ... Round trip triples out to an unnamed context is JSON LD.
... Round trip triples out to an unnamed context is JSON LD. ←
15:59:38 <tbaker> Sandro: Faithfully? Then I see no problem.
Sandro Hawke: Faithfully? Then I see no problem. ←
15:59:45 <gavinc> Yes! Lets do nothing
Gavin Carothers: Yes! Lets do nothing ←
15:59:45 <tbaker> David: Agree to do nothing and move on?
David Wood: Agree to do nothing and move on? ←
15:59:51 <sandro> sandro: Can you round trip Trig and JSON LD with default + NGs?
Sandro Hawke: Can you round trip Trig and JSON LD with default + NGs? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:59:58 <sandro> manu: Yes
Manu Sporny: Yes [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:00:13 <tbaker> XXX: Ivan should have a chance to comment.
Ted Thibodeau: Ivan should have a chance to comment. ←
16:00:16 <gavinc> move on without prejudice
Gavin Carothers: move on without prejudice ←
16:00:17 <tbaker> David: Not closing door.
David Wood: Not closing door. ←
16:00:22 <sandro> s/XXX/MacTed/
16:00:52 <tbaker> PROPOSED: The WG suggests it's a good practice to put metadata about a TriG document in the document's default graph.
PROPOSED: The WG suggests it's a good practice to put metadata about a TriG document in the document's default graph. ←
16:00:52 <Zakim> - +1.408.992.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.408.992.aaee ←
16:00:55 <davidwood> PROPOSED: The WG suggests it's a good practice to put metadata about a TriG document in the document's default graph.
PROPOSED: The WG suggests it's a good practice to put metadata about a TriG document in the document's default graph. ←
16:01:11 <gavinc> -1 :D
Gavin Carothers: -1 :D ←
16:01:22 <tbaker> Sandro: Don't care. Gave up with formal semantics for Trig. That's okay.
Sandro Hawke: Don't care. Gave up with formal semantics for Trig. That's okay. ←
16:01:48 <sandro> sandro: If you don't KNOW the default graph is metadata, then it doesn't help you.
Sandro Hawke: If you don't KNOW the default graph is metadata, then it doesn't help you. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:01:53 <Zakim> - +1.603.897.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.603.897.aadd ←
16:02:05 <tbaker> David: Conceivably, syntactical way of X whether it contains contextual metadata.
David Wood: Conceivably, syntactical way of X whether it contains contextual metadata. ←
16:02:27 <PatH> Sandro: since datasets have no semantics, no real metadata anyway, so doenst matter.
Sandro Hawke: since datasets have no semantics, no real metadata anyway, so doenst matter. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ] ←
16:02:30 <tbaker> ... You are minus one re: best practice?
... You are minus one re: best practice? ←
16:02:34 <tbaker> Sandro: Yes.
Sandro Hawke: Yes. ←
16:02:51 <AndyS> "suggest good practice" +1 (all about if anyone wants to write the text and see it through the process -- make not critical path)
Andy Seaborne: "suggest good practice" +1 (all about if anyone wants to write the text and see it through the process -- make not critical path) ←
16:02:51 <tbaker> David: We can say something/nothing about default graph.
David Wood: We can say something/nothing about default graph. ←
16:03:29 <tbaker> XXX: Gets very strange when you merge datasets. Reality: if you want to merge, doesn't help at all.
Gavin Carothers: Gets very strange when you merge datasets. Reality: if you want to merge, doesn't help at all. ←
16:03:37 <tbaker> s/XXX/Gavin/
16:04:01 <PatH> Not clear to me where we can put a best practice recommendation in the specs. (?)
Patrick Hayes: Not clear to me where we can put a best practice recommendation in the specs. (?) ←
16:04:24 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
16:04:26 <tbaker> Sandro: Disagree. [Describes options for renaming NGs}. Maybe cleanest to have way of flagging a particular graph as asserted (i.e., with metadata).
Sandro Hawke: Disagree. [Describes options for renaming NGs}. Maybe cleanest to have way of flagging a particular graph as asserted (i.e., with metadata). ←
16:04:41 <tbaker> Unknown perhaps XXX says "Does it have to be flagged in syntax?"
Unknown perhaps XXX says "Does it have to be flagged in syntax?" ←
16:04:51 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
16:05:25 <manu> zakim, code?
Manu Sporny: zakim, code? ←
16:05:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), manu ←
16:05:38 <tbaker> Pat: We should not make recommendations about metadata. Implies that X can be used to refer to the graph, which it cannot. Our decision re: datasets has rendered all talk of metadata moot.
Patrick Hayes: We should not make recommendations about metadata. Implies that X can be used to refer to the graph, which it cannot. Our decision re: datasets has rendered all talk of metadata moot. ←
16:05:42 <sandro> +1 Pat
Sandro Hawke: +1 Pat ←
16:05:47 <Zakim> +??P89
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P89 ←
16:05:54 <manu> zakim, I am ??P89
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P89 ←
16:05:54 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
16:06:11 <tbaker> David: You're saying that implementations that do this are outside the law...
David Wood: You're saying that implementations that do this are outside the law... ←
16:06:54 <tbaker> Sandro: Breaking constraints vs providing addl constraints. You would have to be hold out of band that metadata is asserted.
Sandro Hawke: Breaking constraints vs providing addl constraints. You would have to be hold out of band that metadata is asserted. ←
16:07:37 <tbaker> Scribe lost thread.
Scribe lost thread. ←
16:07:45 <gavinc> editor lost thread
Gavin Carothers: editor lost thread ←
16:07:50 <tbaker> Pat: We proposed syntaxes, but...
Patrick Hayes: We proposed syntaxes, but... ←
16:08:22 <sandro> I don't think so, manu
Sandro Hawke: I don't think so, manu ←
16:08:27 <tbaker> David: We'll take this off agenda. Not clear whether this leaves Trig syntax in a good place.
David Wood: We'll take this off agenda. Not clear whether this leaves Trig syntax in a good place. ←
16:08:29 <Guus> we have no normative support for it; Primer seems like obvious place to include metadata examples and explain what little/no support we provide
Guus Schreiber: we have no normative support for it; Primer seems like obvious place to include metadata examples and explain what little/no support we provide ←
16:08:32 <tbaker> AOB?
AOB? ←
16:08:42 <manu> Keep in mind that JSON-LD normalization will specify a quad syntax.
Manu Sporny: Keep in mind that JSON-LD normalization will specify a quad syntax. ←
16:08:48 <tbaker> David: meeting adjourned.
David Wood: meeting adjourned. ←
16:08:48 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:08:52 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:08:52 <PatH> pat thanks tbasker
Patrick Hayes: pat thanks tbaker ←
16:08:54 <Zakim> -manu
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←
16:09:08 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
Andy Seaborne: ADJOURNED ←
16:09:15 <PatH> s/tbasker/tbaker
16:09:17 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
16:09:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see tbaker?, pchampin, GavinC, Arnaud (muted), davidwood, Guus, MacTed, Sandro, PatH, [GVoice], AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tbaker?, pchampin, GavinC, Arnaud (muted), davidwood, Guus, MacTed, Sandro, PatH, [GVoice], AndyS ←
16:09:28 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
16:09:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see tbaker?, pchampin, GavinC, Arnaud (muted), davidwood, Guus, MacTed, Sandro, PatH, [GVoice], AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see tbaker?, pchampin, GavinC, Arnaud (muted), davidwood, Guus, MacTed, Sandro, PatH, [GVoice], AndyS ←
16:09:40 <manu> We had hoped to make it aligned with a TRiG (or Quad) REC of some kind... but it looks like we'll have to define our own (or take TRiG/Quads to REC)
Manu Sporny: We had hoped to make it aligned with a TRiG (or Quad) REC of some kind... but it looks like we'll have to define our own (or take TRiG/Quads to REC) ←
16:10:06 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Scribes ←
16:10:19 <gavinc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#sec-graph-statements
Gavin Carothers: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/trig/index.html#sec-graph-statements ←
16:10:24 <sandro> manu, huh?
Sandro Hawke: manu, huh? ←
16:10:28 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html
Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html ←
16:11:00 <pchampin> providence ???
Pierre-Antoine Champin: providence ??? ←
16:12:07 <manu> sandro: For the RDF Graph Normalization algorithm (that is used in the Web Payments work... which takes a JSON-LD document, normalizes the graph, serializes it, and then digitally signs it), we serialize to a set of quads.
Sandro Hawke: For the RDF Graph Normalization algorithm (that is used in the Web Payments work... which takes a JSON-LD document, normalizes the graph, serializes it, and then digitally signs it), we serialize to a set of quads. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
16:12:19 <manu> (since JSON-LD has the concept of a named graph, we have to have quads).
Manu Sporny: (since JSON-LD has the concept of a named graph, we have to have quads). ←
16:12:41 <manu> I was just raising the point that I was hoping that the RDF WG would formalize a Quad format as a REC, so we could refer to it.
Manu Sporny: I was just raising the point that I was hoping that the RDF WG would formalize a Quad format as a REC, so we could refer to it. ←
16:12:50 <AndyS> For the minutes: this is useful: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0406.html
Andy Seaborne: For the minutes: this is useful: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009AprJun/0406.html ←
16:12:57 <manu> but it looks like we'll have to do that work when we formalize the RDF Graph Normalization algorithm now.
Manu Sporny: but it looks like we'll have to do that work when we formalize the RDF Graph Normalization algorithm now. ←
16:13:23 <gavinc> ... where is RDF Graph Normalization being formalized?
Gavin Carothers: ... where is RDF Graph Normalization being formalized? ←
16:13:44 <AndyS> manu - I would like to see N-Quads (but guess you could use a restrict (and ugly?) TriG)
Andy Seaborne: manu - I would like to see N-Quads (but guess you could use a restrict (and ugly?) TriG) ←
16:13:44 <gkellogg> Sadly, N-Quads doesn't seem to be on the table, and can't serialize an empty-graph anyway, which seems to be part of TriG now.
Gregg Kellogg: Sadly, N-Quads doesn't seem to be on the table, and can't serialize an empty-graph anyway, which seems to be part of TriG now. ←
16:14:02 <gavinc> manu... what obvious reasons?
Gavin Carothers: manu... what obvious reasons? ←
16:14:05 <manu> time
Manu Sporny: time ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2012-10-17 16:27:18 UTC by 'tbaker3', comments: 'Changed scribe. Cleaned up a few scribe glitches.'