None.
12:53:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-irc ←
12:54:37 <manu1> zakim, this is RDF WG
Manu Sporny: zakim, this is RDF WG ←
12:54:37 <Zakim> sorry, manu1, I do not see a conference named 'RDF WG' in progress or scheduled at this time
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, manu1, I do not see a conference named 'RDF WG' in progress or scheduled at this time ←
12:55:08 <manu1> zakim, room for 7?
Manu Sporny: zakim, room for 7? ←
12:55:09 <Zakim> ok, manu1; conference Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1355Z
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, manu1; conference Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1355Z ←
12:55:37 <manu1> zakim, code?
Manu Sporny: zakim, code? ←
12:55:37 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu1 ←
12:55:47 <manu1> rrsagent, make logs public
Manu Sporny: rrsagent, make logs public ←
12:55:55 <manu1> rrsagent, make minutes
Manu Sporny: rrsagent, make minutes ←
12:55:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1 ←
12:56:33 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0500.html
12:56:53 <Zakim> Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z has now started ←
12:57:00 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
12:57:07 <manu1> zakim, I am ??P0
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P0 ←
12:57:07 <Zakim> +manu1; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu1; got it ←
12:57:17 <manu1> Chair: Manu
12:57:19 <manu1> Scribe: Manu
(Scribe set to Manu Sporny)
12:57:32 <manu1> scribenick: manu1
12:57:39 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
12:57:42 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
12:57:42 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
13:00:43 <Zakim> + +1.617.489.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.489.aaaa ←
13:00:53 <manu1> Present: AndyS, Manu, SteveH, Sandro, LeeF, ThomasS, IvanH, NathanR
13:01:04 <sandro> zakim, 1.617.489.aaaa is Sandro
Sandro Hawke: zakim, 1.617.489.aaaa is Sandro ←
13:01:04 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '1.617.489.aaaa'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '1.617.489.aaaa' ←
13:01:10 <sandro> zakim, aaaa is Sandro
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aaaa is Sandro ←
13:01:10 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro; got it ←
13:01:15 <manu1> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
13:01:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1 ←
13:01:24 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:01:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro ←
13:01:51 <tomayac_> zakim, code?
Thomas Steiner: zakim, code? ←
13:01:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), tomayac_
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), tomayac_ ←
13:02:25 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
13:02:34 <SteveH> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
13:02:34 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
13:02:36 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:02:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH ←
13:03:25 <Zakim> + +1.404.978.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.404.978.aabb ←
13:03:46 <sandro> zakim, aabb is tomayac_
Sandro Hawke: zakim, aabb is tomayac_ ←
13:03:46 <Zakim> +tomayac_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac_; got it ←
13:04:30 <manu1> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0500.html
13:05:24 <manu1> Topic: Market Segments and RDF in JSON direction
13:05:33 <manu1> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON_User_Segments
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON_User_Segments ←
13:05:46 <Zakim> + +1.617.553.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.553.aacc ←
13:05:51 <LeeF> zakim, aacc is me
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, aacc is me ←
13:05:51 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF; got it ←
13:06:44 <sandro> looking at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON_User_Segments
Sandro Hawke: looking at http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/JSON_User_Segments ←
13:07:11 <manu1> Manu: Let's talk about what we'd like this stuff to do for the various communities involved
Manu Sporny: Let's talk about what we'd like this stuff to do for the various communities involved ←
13:07:24 <manu1> Sandro: I was getting lost in all of the options, so I put that JSON User segments bit together
Sandro Hawke: I was getting lost in all of the options, so I put that JSON User segments bit together ←
13:07:52 <manu1> Sandro: It became more clear for me by thinking about what people would be willing to do by publishing their JSON
Sandro Hawke: It became more clear for me by thinking about what people would be willing to do by publishing their JSON ←
13:08:09 <manu1> Sandro: There are discrete levels, but the idea of the spectrum is pretty clear (communities)
Sandro Hawke: There are discrete levels, but the idea of the spectrum is pretty clear (communities) ←
13:08:26 <manu1> Sandro: as for the data consumers, I asked whether or not they want anything to do with RDF.
Sandro Hawke: as for the data consumers, I asked whether or not they want anything to do with RDF. ←
13:08:35 <LeeF> which level is "RDF publishers, willing to publish in JSON"? 7?
Lee Feigenbaum: which level is "RDF publishers, willing to publish in JSON"? 7? ←
13:08:39 <tomayac_> (have to change phones. will be right back. sorry)
Thomas Steiner: (have to change phones. will be right back. sorry) ←
13:08:54 <manu1> Sandro: We need to ensure that we don't bug the people that are just using JSON today
Sandro Hawke: We need to ensure that we don't bug the people that are just using JSON today ←
13:09:10 <manu1> Sandro: all the way up to Group C - who want to use a library/API
Sandro Hawke: all the way up to Group C - who want to use a library/API ←
13:09:18 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
13:09:20 <AndyS> LeeF: +1 -- I attempted to answer that in my weekend email.
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 -- I attempted to answer that in my weekend email. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
13:09:21 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
13:09:25 <ivan> zakim, ??P9 is me
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P9 is me ←
13:09:25 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ivan; got it ←
13:09:40 <manu1> Sandro: Is level 3, 4 and 5 in scope? Need to discuss that.
Sandro Hawke: Is level 3, 4 and 5 in scope? Need to discuss that. ←
13:09:43 <Zakim> -tomayac_
Zakim IRC Bot: -tomayac_ ←
13:09:51 <Zakim> +tomayac_
Zakim IRC Bot: +tomayac_ ←
13:09:57 <LeeF> AndyS, will check your mail, thanks
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS, will check your mail, thanks ←
13:09:59 <manu1> Sandro: Don't need to decide the in-scope bit just yet, will need to eventually.
Sandro Hawke: Don't need to decide the in-scope bit just yet, will need to eventually. ←
13:10:14 <tomayac_> (and back)
Thomas Steiner: (and back) ←
13:10:26 <manu1> AndyS: I found this diagram very helpful, no numbers in boxes, but it occured to me that there is a dual-diagram?
Andy Seaborne: I found this diagram very helpful, no numbers in boxes, but it occured to me that there is a dual-diagram? ←
13:11:27 <manu1> AndyS: There may be other ways of looking at this - existing JSON publishers into RDF - will people w/ RDF want to provide it in a convenient way to JSON-style applications.
Andy Seaborne: There may be other ways of looking at this - existing JSON publishers into RDF - will people w/ RDF want to provide it in a convenient way to JSON-style applications. ←
13:11:33 <LeeF> AndyS's email++
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS's email++ ←
13:11:44 <manu1> Sandro: yes, that makes sense... maybe we can add that to the diagram
Sandro Hawke: yes, that makes sense... maybe we can add that to the diagram ←
13:12:46 <manu1> Manu: What would you like to see happen in the next 2-3 years?
Manu Sporny: What would you like to see happen in the next 2-3 years? ←
13:12:50 <LeeF> "really interesting" == bad working group topic? :)
Lee Feigenbaum: "really interesting" == bad working group topic? :) ←
13:13:02 <SteveH> +1 :)
Steve Harris: +1 :) ←
13:13:04 <manu1> Sandro: Hard to tell at this point, interested in the green box
Sandro Hawke: Hard to tell at this point, interested in the green box ←
13:13:22 <sandro> webr3, press zero and ask the operator to add you.
Sandro Hawke: webr3, press zero and ask the operator to add you. ←
13:13:23 <manu1> zakim, code?
zakim, code? ←
13:13:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), manu1 ←
13:14:09 <sandro> AndyS: with the greenish box, any technical pubs need some degree of proof/evidence. I'd like to see the evidence that it addresses them.
Andy Seaborne: with the greenish box, any technical pubs need some degree of proof/evidence. I'd like to see the evidence that it addresses them. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:14:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
13:14:21 <sandro> +1 Andy
Sandro Hawke: +1 Andy ←
13:14:22 <manu1> AndyS: The thing about the green-ish box - technical publications need proof/evidence behind them, attempting to address particular classes - close but not right prevents anything else from happening in that space.
Andy Seaborne: The thing about the green-ish box - technical publications need proof/evidence behind them, attempting to address particular classes - close but not right prevents anything else from happening in that space. ←
13:14:37 <sandro> zakim, IPcaller is webr3
Sandro Hawke: zakim, IPcaller is webr3 ←
13:14:37 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +webr3; got it ←
13:14:40 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:14:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, LeeF, ivan, tomayac_, webr3
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, LeeF, ivan, tomayac_, webr3 ←
13:14:43 <webr3> Zakim, i am IPcaller
Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am IPcaller ←
13:14:43 <Zakim> sorry, webr3, I do not see a party named 'IPcaller'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, webr3, I do not see a party named 'IPcaller' ←
13:14:49 <webr3> Zakim, i am [IPcaller]+
Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am [IPcaller]+ ←
13:14:49 <Zakim> sorry, webr3, I do not see a party named '[IPcaller]+'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, webr3, I do not see a party named '[IPcaller]+' ←
13:15:12 <manu1> AndyS: Of the three cases, I'm particularly motivated by presenting RDF web applications via JSON...
Andy Seaborne: Of the three cases, I'm particularly motivated by presenting RDF web applications via JSON... ←
13:15:26 <sandro> andy: I'm particular motivated by presenting RDF info through JSON to RDF webapps.
Andy Seaborne: I'm particular motivated by presenting RDF info through JSON to RDF webapps. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:15:40 <sandro> andy: ... but I'm not sure how important that is.
Andy Seaborne: ... but I'm not sure how important that is. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:16:22 <AndyS> andy: ... RDF serialization may not be important.
Andy Seaborne: ... RDF serialization may not be important. [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
13:16:44 <manu1> AndyS: Turtle is closer to what I'd like...
Andy Seaborne: Turtle is closer to what I'd like... ←
13:16:56 <manu1> AndyS: Talis' format has elements of both.
Andy Seaborne: Talis' format has elements of both. ←
13:17:39 <manu1> AndyS: That's talking about RDF serialization... but we may want to support on a lossy format?
Andy Seaborne: That's talking about RDF serialization... but we may want to support on a lossy format? ←
13:18:06 <manu1> AndyS: Exporting data from RDF to JSON, but taking data in published RDF and giving it to JSON applications.
Andy Seaborne: Exporting data from RDF to JSON, but taking data in published RDF and giving it to JSON applications. ←
13:18:14 <manu1> Sandro: RDF through JSON?
Sandro Hawke: RDF through JSON? ←
13:18:25 <sandro> AndyS: an output format, need not round trip, but easier to read in json. "rdf in json" maybe. "rdf export in json" apps not 1st class RDF apps.
Andy Seaborne: an output format, need not round trip, but easier to read in json. "rdf in json" maybe. "rdf export in json" apps not 1st class RDF apps. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:18:31 <manu1> AndyS: It doesn't make the JSON applications first class RDF applications.
Andy Seaborne: It doesn't make the JSON applications first class RDF applications. ←
13:18:46 <manu1> AndyS: Data Access JSON?
Andy Seaborne: Data Access JSON? ←
13:19:39 <manu1> Manu: What's the target market?
Manu Sporny: What's the target market? ←
13:19:43 <sandro> manu: Andy, which apps and communities?
Manu Sporny: Andy, which apps and communities? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:19:51 <manu1> AndyS: Government data - data from different sources and doing mash-ups
Andy Seaborne: Government data - data from different sources and doing mash-ups ←
13:19:58 <sandro> AndyS: eg uk govt data mashups
Andy Seaborne: eg uk govt data mashups [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:20:14 <manu1> AndyS: Combining government reference data and mashing/correlating - govt spending with school results.
Andy Seaborne: Combining government reference data and mashing/correlating - govt spending with school results. ←
13:20:54 <manu1> SteveH: I've got two agendas - we work internally w/ RDF, but provide an API to our business parters in XML/JSON
Steve Harris: I've got two agendas - we work internally w/ RDF, but provide an API to our business parters in XML/JSON ←
13:21:15 <manu1> SteveH: It would be interesting to directly expose our RDF, but businesses are moving very slowly toward that.
Steve Harris: It would be interesting to directly expose our RDF, but businesses are moving very slowly toward that. ←
13:21:22 <sandro> SteveH: as a company that works exclusively in RDF, but provides APIs to our partners (json and xml), it would be nice to expose the RDF in a nice form to our partners
Steve Harris: as a company that works exclusively in RDF, but provides APIs to our partners (json and xml), it would be nice to expose the RDF in a nice form to our partners [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:21:29 <manu1> SteveH: Deep but growing concern that this is going to turn into RDF/XML again
Steve Harris: Deep but growing concern that this is going to turn into RDF/XML again ←
13:21:50 <manu1> SteveH: Doing something very slightly wrong could set back this area for quite some time.
Steve Harris: Doing something very slightly wrong could set back this area for quite some time. ←
13:21:54 <sandro> ... plus I'm worried about repeating some of the mistakes of RDF/XML. Doing something very-slightly-wrong could set back the field for a long time.
Sandro Hawke: ... plus I'm worried about repeating some of the mistakes of RDF/XML. Doing something very-slightly-wrong could set back the field for a long time. ←
13:22:15 <manu1> SteveH: We're interested in supporting financial industry/credit agencies, etc.
Steve Harris: We're interested in supporting financial industry/credit agencies, etc. ←
13:22:34 <manu1> SteveH: Not really a field where web services are common - technologically backwards industry.
Steve Harris: Not really a field where web services are common - technologically backwards industry. ←
13:22:55 <sandro> zakim, list attendees
Sandro Hawke: zakim, list attendees ←
13:22:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been manu1, AndyS, +1.617.489.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH, +1.404.978.aabb, tomayac_, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, ivan, webr3
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been manu1, AndyS, +1.617.489.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH, +1.404.978.aabb, tomayac_, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, ivan, webr3 ←
13:23:31 <manu1> SteveH: JSON-LD at first glance looked applicable, but then it started to look like an eyesore.
Steve Harris: JSON-LD at first glance looked applicable, but then it started to look like an eyesore. ←
13:24:04 <sandro> SteveH: Annotations scattered through the data rendered it unreadable.
Steve Harris: Annotations scattered through the data rendered it unreadable. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:24:11 <manu1> SteveH: In principle you think that you can do RDF/XML, but it doesn't work out that way.
Steve Harris: In principle you think that you can do RDF/XML, but it doesn't work out that way. ←
13:24:16 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0475.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0475.html ←
13:24:25 <manu1> LeeF: I outlined our interest in that e-mail
Lee Feigenbaum: I outlined our interest in that e-mail ←
13:24:45 <manu1> LeeF: We work in an RDF world, we work in RDF serializations - we work in triples
Lee Feigenbaum: We work in an RDF world, we work in RDF serializations - we work in triples ←
13:24:55 <sandro> LeeF: We work in an RDF world, but when we serve up RDF data to web apps, we use a json serializaton. We have a mild interest in a std in this area.
Lee Feigenbaum: We work in an RDF world, but when we serve up RDF data to web apps, we use a json serializaton. We have a mild interest in a std in this area. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:25:24 <AndyS> Andy's attempt to do the dual to Sandro's User Segmentation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0501.html
Andy Seaborne: Andy's attempt to do the dual to Sandro's User Segmentation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2011Mar/0501.html ←
13:25:37 <manu1> LeeF: Having a standard in this area would be great - we could interoperate well... but not a priority for us... just one step along that path, we don't have a particular need or interest in the JSON developer friendly way of reading standard JSON - but not a focus for us.
Lee Feigenbaum: Having a standard in this area would be great - we could interoperate well... but not a priority for us... just one step along that path, we don't have a particular need or interest in the JSON developer friendly way of reading standard JSON - but not a focus for us. ←
13:26:27 <manu1> LeeF: We are interested in JSON for RDF - we're going to apply libraries to it, and shouldn't care about the serialization standard.
Lee Feigenbaum: We are interested in JSON for RDF - we're going to apply libraries to it, and shouldn't care about the serialization standard. ←
13:26:50 <manu1> LeeF: Enterprise web developers - large companies using APIs to read data from endpoints - energy, financial services.
Lee Feigenbaum: Enterprise web developers - large companies using APIs to read data from endpoints - energy, financial services. ←
13:27:04 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
13:27:33 <manu1> Ivan: The motivation for the charter... there are a large group of WebApps devs that ignore RDF
Ivan Herman: The motivation for the charter... there are a large group of WebApps devs that ignore RDF ←
13:27:48 <manu1> Ivan: Even in cases where they'd be better off with RDF
Ivan Herman: Even in cases where they'd be better off with RDF ←
13:28:17 <manu1> Ivan: All the people working in the social web XGs, they have walled gardens, any application that tries to merge the data would be better off using RDF
Ivan Herman: All the people working in the social web XGs, they have walled gardens, any application that tries to merge the data would be better off using RDF ←
13:28:44 <manu1> Ivan: but the kind of feedback that we get, RDF is too complicated, it's messy, etc. - it doesn't work for Web Apps folks. They have a point.
Ivan Herman: but the kind of feedback that we get, RDF is too complicated, it's messy, etc. - it doesn't work for Web Apps folks. They have a point. ←
13:29:06 <manu1> Ivan: What one would hope is that by having some sort of JSON view of RDF data, that might be good enough for many developers to use Linked Open Data.
Ivan Herman: What one would hope is that by having some sort of JSON view of RDF data, that might be good enough for many developers to use Linked Open Data. ←
13:29:35 <SteveH> q+ to ask Ivan about round-tripping
Steve Harris: q+ to ask Ivan about round-tripping ←
13:29:36 <manu1> Ivan: My feeling if I look at Sandro's matrix, for those people, the kind of JTriples approach (RDF/JSON) would not work for them.
Ivan Herman: My feeling if I look at Sandro's matrix, for those people, the kind of JTriples approach (RDF/JSON) would not work for them. ←
13:29:42 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
13:30:02 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
13:30:03 <manu1> Ivan: Not saying those serializations would not be useful, but it's the same issues that they've been complaining about.
Ivan Herman: Not saying those serializations would not be useful, but it's the same issues that they've been complaining about. ←
13:30:23 <manu1> ack SteveH
ack SteveH ←
13:30:23 <Zakim> SteveH, you wanted to ask Ivan about round-tripping
Zakim IRC Bot: SteveH, you wanted to ask Ivan about round-tripping ←
13:30:43 <manu1> SteveH: Given your use case, I would think that you'd want to produce and consume data in the JSON syntax.
Steve Harris: Given your use case, I would think that you'd want to produce and consume data in the JSON syntax. ←
13:30:56 <manu1> SteveH: Are you thinking just consuming or producing and consuming?
Steve Harris: Are you thinking just consuming or producing and consuming? ←
13:31:08 <manu1> Ivan: Round-tripping would be good, but for many apps, it's not the case.
Ivan Herman: Round-tripping would be good, but for many apps, it's not the case. ←
13:31:28 <AndyS> q+ to ask if the original data is RDF or other format?
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask if the original data is RDF or other format? ←
13:31:30 <manu1> Ivan: You want to read and mash-up as a consumer... but no clear opinion on that
Ivan Herman: You want to read and mash-up as a consumer... but no clear opinion on that ←
13:31:39 <manu1> ack AndyS
ack AndyS ←
13:31:39 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if the original data is RDF or other format?
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask if the original data is RDF or other format? ←
13:31:47 <manu1> AndyS: Is this where the original data is in RDF?
Andy Seaborne: Is this where the original data is in RDF? ←
13:31:57 <manu1> Ivan: Not necessarily.
Ivan Herman: Not necessarily. ←
13:32:11 <manu1> AndyS: Where does the RDF come in, then?
Andy Seaborne: Where does the RDF come in, then? ←
13:32:26 <manu1> Ivan: Some of the data is in RDF, but some of it isn't, what happens if I want to combine it?
Ivan Herman: Some of the data is in RDF, but some of it isn't, what happens if I want to combine it? ←
13:32:28 <AndyS> ack me
Andy Seaborne: ack me ←
13:32:31 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:32:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, ivan, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, ivan, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF ←
13:33:05 <manu1> Thomas: Looking at Sandro's matrix... our WG should focus on the right-ish, lower-ish 1/3rd to 1/2 of it
Thomas Steiner: Looking at Sandro's matrix... our WG should focus on the right-ish, lower-ish 1/3rd to 1/2 of it ←
13:33:26 <AndyS> Ivan: desire is combining data from different sources (/me hope that's the right summary)
Ivan Herman: desire is combining data from different sources (/me hope that's the right summary) [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
13:33:33 <manu1> Thomas: Don't need the need or feasibility for Twitter to use what we suggest. Make one format to rule the world... don't think that this is what we should do.
Thomas Steiner: Don't need the need or feasibility for Twitter to use what we suggest. Make one format to rule the world... don't think that this is what we should do. ←
13:33:53 <ivan> s/is it/it is/
Ivan Herman: s/is it/it is/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
13:34:05 <manu1> Thomas: The really easy win woudl be to convince DBPedia, Freebase, etc to use one custom format.
Thomas Steiner: The really easy win woudl be to convince DBPedia, Freebase, etc to use one custom format. ←
13:34:35 <manu1> Thomas: If you look at what we use today - they all use different publishing formats... the lower-right-ish corner of the matrix
Thomas Steiner: If you look at what we use today - they all use different publishing formats... the lower-right-ish corner of the matrix ←
13:34:53 <manu1> Thomas: What would be interesting is providing RDF goggles, but don't entirely understand whether it would be generalizable.
Thomas Steiner: What would be interesting is providing RDF goggles, but don't entirely understand whether it would be generalizable. ←
13:35:26 <manu1> Thomas: One-off for each and every data provider... don't know if it would be globally useful to have data goggles. Maybe provide a roadmap for data providers telling them how they could do this.
Thomas Steiner: One-off for each and every data provider... don't know if it would be globally useful to have data goggles. Maybe provide a roadmap for data providers telling them how they could do this. ←
13:35:55 <sandro> ( webr3, is "rdf goggles" the green box? )
Sandro Hawke: ( webr3, is "rdf goggles" the green box? ) ←
13:35:59 <manu1> Thomas: People that are already committed in thinking about the triple way, use the JSON format to express that data - that's what I'd like... like the object-based approach, maps better to the way JSON people think.
Thomas Steiner: People that are already committed in thinking about the triple way, use the JSON format to express that data - that's what I'd like... like the object-based approach, maps better to the way JSON people think. ←
13:36:32 <manu1> Thomas: Not really worried about the billion triples stuff... no real need for JSON triples, they say use N-Triples, don't need yet another exchange format for simple triples..
Thomas Steiner: Not really worried about the billion triples stuff... no real need for JSON triples, they say use N-Triples, don't need yet another exchange format for simple triples.. ←
13:36:59 <webr3> ( sandro, originally I was using the term to mean something more like JSON-Schema crossed with GRDDL for JSON, an external map which had rules to transform json objects in to rdf)
Nathan Rixham: ( sandro, originally I was using the term to mean something more like JSON-Schema crossed with GRDDL for JSON, an external map which had rules to transform json objects in to rdf) ←
13:37:13 <manu1> Thomas: If there is a need, we can come up with a format for simple triples in JSON - we need an object based approach, getting namespaces right, prefixes right... string literals vs. URIs, many details
Thomas Steiner: If there is a need, we can come up with a format for simple triples in JSON - we need an object based approach, getting namespaces right, prefixes right... string literals vs. URIs, many details ←
13:37:29 <manu1> Thomas: We need to get those details right, microsyntaxes, deeply nested objects, etc.
Thomas Steiner: We need to get those details right, microsyntaxes, deeply nested objects, etc. ←
13:37:56 <manu1> Thomas: Endless discussions sometimes, but hope it is worth is.
Thomas Steiner: Endless discussions sometimes, but hope it is worth is. ←
13:38:33 <manu1> Thomas: Would like Drupal, Wordpress folks to adopt this stuff... a common serializatin format for their data... you can use atom, but would be nicer to use JSON as the API.
Thomas Steiner: Would like Drupal, Wordpress folks to adopt this stuff... a common serializatin format for their data... you can use atom, but would be nicer to use JSON as the API. ←
13:38:57 <manu1> Thomas: Also see a need for a lightweight feed for shopping sites - lots of individual items that they need to publish somewhere.
Thomas Steiner: Also see a need for a lightweight feed for shopping sites - lots of individual items that they need to publish somewhere. ←
13:39:29 <manu1> Nathan: I work in a few different spaces, different viewpoints on these competing needs.
Nathan Rixham: I work in a few different spaces, different viewpoints on these competing needs. ←
13:40:18 <manu1> Nathan: For folks that are invested in RDF - I see a strong need in 6B (Sandro's graph) - SPARQL results being standardized - good to have a single syntax across the wire, between SPARQL, between RDF systems, JSON incredibly easy and fast to parse.
Nathan Rixham: For folks that are invested in RDF - I see a strong need in 6B (Sandro's graph) - SPARQL results being standardized - good to have a single syntax across the wire, between SPARQL, between RDF systems, JSON incredibly easy and fast to parse. ←
13:40:38 <manu1> Nathan: Node.js doesn't have nice XML support - custom parsers for TURTLE, speed is noticable... JSON is fast.
Nathan Rixham: Node.js doesn't have nice XML support - custom parsers for TURTLE, speed is noticable... JSON is fast. ←
13:40:57 <manu1> Nathan: The other side is working w/ lots of developers - enterprise to open source
Nathan Rixham: The other side is working w/ lots of developers - enterprise to open source ←
13:41:35 <manu1> Nathan: Explaining RDF to many of them - takeaway is that they like the follow-your-nose side of things, like shared schema, crawling
Nathan Rixham: Explaining RDF to many of them - takeaway is that they like the follow-your-nose side of things, like shared schema, crawling ←
13:41:56 <manu1> Nathan: Key-value stores and JSON stores - NoSQL movement at the backend - working w/ raw objects all the time
Nathan Rixham: Key-value stores and JSON stores - NoSQL movement at the backend - working w/ raw objects all the time ←
13:42:08 <sandro> webr3: people like RDF, but really just fall back to the bits they like: (1) follow your nose, (2) shared schema, (3) kv stores / nosql
Nathan Rixham: people like RDF, but really just fall back to the bits they like: (1) follow your nose, (2) shared schema, (3) kv stores / nosql [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
13:42:21 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
13:42:25 <manu1> Nathan: Then they see the serializations, and then they giv eup on it - need a constrained RDF, simple datatypes - adding in date and adding in URI
Nathan Rixham: Then they see the serializations, and then they giv eup on it - need a constrained RDF, simple datatypes - adding in date and adding in URI ←
13:42:57 <manu1> Nathan: Those are the needs that I see - 6b and level 3, 4, and 5 groups - as long as we do one of them, I'd be happy, I'd like to do both
Nathan Rixham: Those are the needs that I see - 6b and level 3, 4, and 5 groups - as long as we do one of them, I'd be happy, I'd like to do both ←
13:43:30 <webr3> q+ too
Nathan Rixham: q+ too ←
13:43:34 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
13:43:36 <manu1> Ivan: I think it's perfectly fine for many of those apps - whatever serialization we do, it is lossy - so lossy serializations would be fine for many of these groups.
Ivan Herman: I think it's perfectly fine for many of those apps - whatever serialization we do, it is lossy - so lossy serializations would be fine for many of these groups. ←
13:43:38 <manu1> ack too
ack too ←
13:44:08 <manu1> Nathan: Where most of these people are not using RDF stores or triple stores - many are heavily invested in NoSQL stores, column databases, etc.
Nathan Rixham: Where most of these people are not using RDF stores or triple stores - many are heavily invested in NoSQL stores, column databases, etc. ←
13:44:30 <manu1> Nathan: They're moving away from RDBMS to object stores - data is not in RDF - but they would like to provide it as RDF.
Nathan Rixham: They're moving away from RDBMS to object stores - data is not in RDF - but they would like to provide it as RDF. ←
13:44:48 <manu1> Nathan: They can understand/import other peoples data...
Nathan Rixham: They can understand/import other peoples data... ←
13:44:59 <tomayac_> +1 for keeping in mind the nosql community and the way these people think!
Thomas Steiner: +1 for keeping in mind the nosql community and the way these people think! ←
13:45:15 <sandro> q+ with comment on RT-ing
Sandro Hawke: q+ with comment on RT-ing ←
13:45:20 <manu1> Nathan: The whole round-trippable side of things I don't see as important - you can pull in some objects, you can produce some objects, but doesn't have to be RDF.
Nathan Rixham: The whole round-trippable side of things I don't see as important - you can pull in some objects, you can produce some objects, but doesn't have to be RDF. ←
13:45:21 <sandro> q+ to comment on RT-ing
Sandro Hawke: q+ to comment on RT-ing ←
13:45:27 <manu1> zakim, who is on the call?
zakim, who is on the call? ←
13:45:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, ivan, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, Sandro, SteveH, ivan, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF ←
13:45:55 <manu1> Sandro: See an argument that we don't see round-tripping, leaving out expressibilility - whatever we leave out, someone will need it
Sandro Hawke: See an argument that we don't see round-tripping, leaving out expressibilility - whatever we leave out, someone will need it ←
13:46:43 <manu1> AndyS: It seems like it's not a technical issue - right?
Andy Seaborne: It seems like it's not a technical issue - right? ←
13:46:56 <webr3> agree w/ sandro, re blank nodes, it'd be simple to just leave out blank node identifiers and keep blank nodes (anonymous nested objects)
Nathan Rixham: agree w/ sandro, re blank nodes, it'd be simple to just leave out blank node identifiers and keep blank nodes (anonymous nested objects) ←
13:47:12 <manu1> AndyS: If they saw a restricted mechainsm, they may have a different reaction. This may be why TURTLE is liked over RDF/XML.
Andy Seaborne: If they saw a restricted mechainsm, they may have a different reaction. This may be why TURTLE is liked over RDF/XML. ←
13:47:25 <manu1> Sandro: The problem here is one of hit with the firehose when they wanted a glass of water.
Sandro Hawke: The problem here is one of hit with the firehose when they wanted a glass of water. ←
13:47:35 <tomayac_> q+
Thomas Steiner: q+ ←
13:47:36 <manu1> Sandro: Google RDF - you're not going to get anything useful
Sandro Hawke: Google RDF - you're not going to get anything useful ←
13:47:38 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
13:48:15 <manu1> Thomas: One of the things we should do is read through the direction on json.org and make sure to understand where the serialization comes from
Thomas Steiner: One of the things we should do is read through the direction on json.org and make sure to understand where the serialization comes from ←
13:48:32 <manu1> Thomas: We need to think the JavaScript way - weak typing, etc.
Thomas Steiner: We need to think the JavaScript way - weak typing, etc. ←
13:48:51 <manu1> Thomas: You can do strong typing, but you shouldn't enforce it.
Thomas Steiner: You can do strong typing, but you shouldn't enforce it. ←
13:51:30 <tomayac_> i meant 2.0 and 2 dont make a diff, not "2" and 2.
Thomas Steiner: i meant 2.0 and 2 dont make a diff, not "2" and 2. ←
13:53:17 <tomayac_> as in "this slap in your face hurts me more than you" ;-)
Thomas Steiner: as in "this slap in your face hurts me more than you" ;-) ←
13:53:14 <manu1> Manu: I am extremely concerned about meeting Web Application developers half-way. I think the biggest issue that the semantic web community has had is getting massive adoption of it's technologies. RDFa is one of the success stories - what other semantic web format has had the adoption curve that it has? That is, we met developers half-way and good things happened. We need to do the same with the data formats for RDF. TURTLE and SPARQL have been out there for quite a number of years, but adoption has been constrained to the semantic web developer community. I have a great deal of respect for the people that work on the Semantic Web stuff. There's enough of it out there already, another RDF serialization isn't going to drastically change things. We need to focus on helping the Web developers out there, not the semantic application developers.
Manu Sporny: I am extremely concerned about meeting Web Application developers half-way. I think the biggest issue that the semantic web community has had is getting massive adoption of it's technologies. RDFa is one of the success stories - what other semantic web format has had the adoption curve that it has? That is, we met developers half-way and good things happened. We need to do the same with the data formats for RDF. TURTLE and SPARQL have been out there for quite a number of years, but adoption has been constrained to the semantic web developer community. I have a great deal of respect for the people that work on the Semantic Web stuff. There's enough of it out there already, another RDF serialization isn't going to drastically change things. We need to focus on helping the Web developers out there, not the semantic application developers. ←
13:53:50 <manu1> Manu: That is, we haven't seen a big adoption by companies like Facebook and Twitter - they're using JSON because it's simple and maps well to what their developers are using. Unless we meet people like that half-way, they're not going to adopt a way of publishing semantic web data. They think object-based, not triple-based - we need to meet them half-way on that - we need to disrupt as little as possible. However, these companies are just examples of the types of developers that we want to attract into the Semantic Web world - it wouldn't take a great deal of effort to do that and that's what JSON-LD focuses on doing.
Manu Sporny: That is, we haven't seen a big adoption by companies like Facebook and Twitter - they're using JSON because it's simple and maps well to what their developers are using. Unless we meet people like that half-way, they're not going to adopt a way of publishing semantic web data. They think object-based, not triple-based - we need to meet them half-way on that - we need to disrupt as little as possible. However, these companies are just examples of the types of developers that we want to attract into the Semantic Web world - it wouldn't take a great deal of effort to do that and that's what JSON-LD focuses on doing. ←
13:55:02 <Zakim> This conference is in overtime; 4 ports must be freed
Zakim IRC Bot: This conference is in overtime; 4 ports must be freed ←
13:55:15 <webr3> manu: read write data also very important moving forwards
Manu Sporny: read write data also very important moving forwards [ Scribe Assist by Nathan Rixham ] ←
13:55:26 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
13:56:32 <sandro> I hear manu aiming at Level 4.
Sandro Hawke: I hear manu aiming at Level 4. ←
13:56:32 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
13:56:44 <manu1> ack tomayac_
ack tomayac_ ←
13:56:53 <manu1> Sandro: I think you're characterising level 4
Sandro Hawke: I think you're characterising level 4 ←
13:59:41 <manu1> Manu: If you can't follow-your-nose, you can get a default context from another website.
Manu Sporny: If you can't follow-your-nose, you can get a default context from another website. ←
13:59:46 <manu1> ack sandro
ack sandro ←
14:00:09 <manu1> AndyS: GRDDL hasn't taken off, we need to reflect on why
Andy Seaborne: GRDDL hasn't taken off, we need to reflect on why ←
14:00:33 <manu1> SteveH: So, I'm skeptical that you can take something like any RDF and serialize it into JSON-LD that anyone would want to consume.
Steve Harris: So, I'm skeptical that you can take something like any RDF and serialize it into JSON-LD that anyone would want to consume. ←
14:00:38 <sandro> SteveH: I'm skeptical that you can serialize typical RDF into JSON-LD that anyone would want to consume.
Steve Harris: I'm skeptical that you can serialize typical RDF into JSON-LD that anyone would want to consume. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
14:00:49 <manu1> SteveH: Serializing into TURTLE is pretty hard - into JSON would be really, really challenging
Steve Harris: Serializing into TURTLE is pretty hard - into JSON would be really, really challenging ←
14:00:51 <webr3> q+
Nathan Rixham: q+ ←
14:01:02 <sandro> +1 skeptical
Sandro Hawke: +1 skeptical ←
14:01:16 <manu1> SteveH: The risk is that we create a serialization that's theoretically possible, but it may be too ugly to use.
Steve Harris: The risk is that we create a serialization that's theoretically possible, but it may be too ugly to use. ←
14:01:42 <manu1> Nathan: I think we need two serializations - take RDF as JSON, and another constrained one for bigger folks like Facebook, Twitter.
Nathan Rixham: I think we need two serializations - take RDF as JSON, and another constrained one for bigger folks like Facebook, Twitter. ←
14:02:12 <manu1> Nathan: merging the two might be doing RDF/XML all over again.
Nathan Rixham: merging the two might be doing RDF/XML all over again. ←
14:02:24 <webr3> ack webr3
Nathan Rixham: ack webr3 ←
14:02:37 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
14:02:37 <Zakim> ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan is being disconnected ←
14:02:38 <Zakim> -ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -ivan ←
14:02:38 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
14:02:51 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, SteveH, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, SteveH, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF ←
14:09:45 <manu1> Topic: Starting Documents
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
14:03:23 <manu1> AndyS: I'm not worried about entire RDF serialization into JSON
Andy Seaborne: I'm not worried about entire RDF serialization into JSON ←
14:03:36 <manu1> AndyS: if you're going to do that, parse N-Triples
Andy Seaborne: if you're going to do that, parse N-Triples ←
14:03:58 <manu1> AndyS: I don't think it would do any harm to translate RDF into JSON completely
Andy Seaborne: I don't think it would do any harm to translate RDF into JSON completely ←
14:04:40 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS, I've heard the "that's fine but X is not good for us" argument hundreds of times
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS, I've heard the "that's fine but X is not good for us" argument hundreds of times ←
14:05:27 <LeeF> +1 to AndyS, of course
Lee Feigenbaum: +1 to AndyS, of course ←
14:06:19 <manu1> AndyS: The lossy RDF serialization - you have RDF and you want to give it to JSON apps
Andy Seaborne: The lossy RDF serialization - you have RDF and you want to give it to JSON apps ←
14:06:37 <manu1> AndyS: Lossy translation of RDF down to JSON - you have RDF and you want to publish JSON
Andy Seaborne: Lossy translation of RDF down to JSON - you have RDF and you want to publish JSON ←
14:06:41 <webr3> +1, but worry about putting names of companies on use cases, I know many many developers who would use objects+uri-ids+shared-properties
Nathan Rixham: +1, but worry about putting names of companies on use cases, I know many many developers who would use objects+uri-ids+shared-properties ←
14:07:43 <manu1> AndyS: When you try to convert data that is not RDF - it's difficult to do the detailed capture of meaning, we're going back to the knowledge acquisition task - difficult to do.
Andy Seaborne: When you try to convert data that is not RDF - it's difficult to do the detailed capture of meaning, we're going back to the knowledge acquisition task - difficult to do. ←
14:09:02 <manu1> AndyS: The safest course would be to translate RDF to JSON in an easy way - JTriples, RDF/JSON
Andy Seaborne: The safest course would be to translate RDF to JSON in an easy way - JTriples, RDF/JSON ←
14:09:24 <manu1> AndyS: JSON-LD is unproven territory, this WG on it's fast track is not the best place for it to happen.
Andy Seaborne: JSON-LD is unproven territory, this WG on it's fast track is not the best place for it to happen. ←
14:10:02 <manu1> SteveH: We're safe with SPARQL result set... anything else would be dangerous.
Steve Harris: We're safe with SPARQL result set... anything else would be dangerous. ←
14:10:14 <manu1> LeeF: I agree w/ Andy and Steve
Lee Feigenbaum: I agree w/ Andy and Steve ←
14:10:18 <SteveH> not just SRJ, but any 3-column serialisation
Steve Harris: not just SRJ, but any 3-column serialisation ←
14:10:58 <manu1> Nathan: I have a split opinion, I agree with everyone - SPARQL result set is good - but we also need a way to do Objects w/ URI IDs - JSON-LD / JSN3 is overkill - maybe simplify them
Nathan Rixham: I have a split opinion, I agree with everyone - SPARQL result set is good - but we also need a way to do Objects w/ URI IDs - JSON-LD / JSN3 is overkill - maybe simplify them ←
14:11:13 <manu1> Thomas: Pass... not knowledgeable enough on SPARQL.
Thomas Steiner: Pass... not knowledgeable enough on SPARQL. ←
14:11:48 <webr3> q+ to ask manu a q quickly
Nathan Rixham: q+ to ask manu a q quickly ←
14:12:31 <manu1> ack SteveH
ack SteveH ←
14:13:04 <manu1> Nathan: Quick question... it seems like w/ JSON-LD - you would like it to cover every use case - very simple to very complex.
Nathan Rixham: Quick question... it seems like w/ JSON-LD - you would like it to cover every use case - very simple to very complex. ←
14:13:15 <manu1> Nathan: Why do you want everything in the one serialization?
Nathan Rixham: Why do you want everything in the one serialization? ←
14:13:45 <manu1> Manu: I think that's a common misconception with JSON-LD - right now it looks like the kitchen sink. I wrote the document like that to cover every use case, fully expecting that we'd rip features out of JSON-LD - things like type coercion and normalization, etc. I wrote those sections knowing that there would be people that would ask for those features - some of them are vital, some of them are not. For example, we don't need microsyntaxes or type coercion if we agree that the serialization will be lossy. Much of JSON-LD can be whittled down to a simpler format - but we will need to address the "Why didn't you add feature X?" people, and the spec does that pre-emptively at the moment.
Manu Sporny: I think that's a common misconception with JSON-LD - right now it looks like the kitchen sink. I wrote the document like that to cover every use case, fully expecting that we'd rip features out of JSON-LD - things like type coercion and normalization, etc. I wrote those sections knowing that there would be people that would ask for those features - some of them are vital, some of them are not. For example, we don't need microsyntaxes or type coercion if we agree that the serialization will be lossy. Much of JSON-LD can be whittled down to a simpler format - but we will need to address the "Why didn't you add feature X?" people, and the spec does that pre-emptively at the moment. ←
14:14:36 <AndyS> Linked Data API is an example of lossy RDF->JSON (the mapping is domain specific)
Andy Seaborne: Linked Data API is an example of lossy RDF->JSON (the mapping is domain specific) ←
14:16:05 <webr3> AndyS, JSN3 is like that, JSON-LD isn't
Nathan Rixham: AndyS, JSN3 is like that, JSON-LD isn't ←
14:17:09 <tomayac_> (brb)
Thomas Steiner: (brb) ←
14:17:13 <webr3> ack webr3
Nathan Rixham: ack webr3 ←
14:17:15 <webr3> ack webr
Nathan Rixham: ack webr ←
14:17:15 <Zakim> webr, you wanted to ask manu a q quickly
Zakim IRC Bot: webr, you wanted to ask manu a q quickly ←
14:18:18 <manu1> Nathan: JSN3 is setup in the Talis N3-way
Nathan Rixham: JSN3 is setup in the Talis N3-way ←
14:18:26 <manu1> Nathan: JSON-LD is different from JSN3
Nathan Rixham: JSON-LD is different from JSN3 ←
14:19:14 <manu1> Nathan: There were three options - triples in JSON, TURLE-like view, objects in JSON
Nathan Rixham: There were three options - triples in JSON, TURLE-like view, objects in JSON ←
14:19:30 <tomayac_> (back)
Thomas Steiner: (back) ←
14:19:53 <manu1> Nathan: triples in JSON -> RDF/JSON, TURTLE-like view -> JSN3, objects in JSON -> JSON-LD
Nathan Rixham: triples in JSON -> RDF/JSON, TURTLE-like view -> JSN3, objects in JSON -> JSON-LD ←
14:20:21 <manu1> AndyS: The SPARQL result JSON format is almost like a CSV file - it also inherits design criteria from the XML results format.
Andy Seaborne: The SPARQL result JSON format is almost like a CSV file - it also inherits design criteria from the XML results format. ←
14:20:26 <webr3> Nathan: JSON-LD currently like/covers all three (triples,turtles,objects)
Nathan Rixham: JSON-LD currently like/covers all three (triples,turtles,objects) [ Scribe Assist by Nathan Rixham ] ←
14:20:33 <SteveH> +1 to AndyS on SPARQL JSON being ugly
Steve Harris: +1 to AndyS on SPARQL JSON being ugly ←
14:20:37 <manu1> AndyS: A solution to a problem at the time - it has taken off despite its history.
Andy Seaborne: A solution to a problem at the time - it has taken off despite its history. ←
14:21:19 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
14:22:04 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:22:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu1, AndyS, tomayac_, webr3, LeeF ←
14:22:22 <manu1> Thomas: Did we consider getting someone from the JavaScript community as an Invited expert?
Thomas Steiner: Did we consider getting someone from the JavaScript community as an Invited expert? ←
14:22:22 <manu1> Nathan: Maybe Dave Longley from Digital Bazaar?
Nathan Rixham: Maybe Dave Longley from Digital Bazaar? ←
14:22:24 <manu1> Manu: Dave and I worked on JSON-LD together, I doubt that he'd have a very different take on JSON-LD than I do - plus it would be another Invited Expert from the same company (which W3C may frown upon).
Manu Sporny: Dave and I worked on JSON-LD together, I doubt that he'd have a very different take on JSON-LD than I do - plus it would be another Invited Expert from the same company (which W3C may frown upon). ←
14:22:26 <manu1> Manu: Perhaps someone like John Resig?
Manu Sporny: Perhaps someone like John Resig? ←
14:22:29 <manu1> Nathan: The problem with most JSON developers is that they're just that - they don't have the skillset that combines semantic web and JSON.
Nathan Rixham: The problem with most JSON developers is that they're just that - they don't have the skillset that combines semantic web and JSON. ←
14:26:17 <webr3> "give them something to hate" :D
Nathan Rixham: "give them something to hate" :D ←
14:28:26 <manu1> AndyS: Perhaps best thing to do at this point is think about this sort of stuff for a week.
Andy Seaborne: Perhaps best thing to do at this point is think about this sort of stuff for a week. ←
14:28:29 <manu1> Manu: Let's follow-up on the mailing list - then wait at least a week to reconvene a JSON-specific discussion.
Manu Sporny: Let's follow-up on the mailing list - then wait at least a week to reconvene a JSON-specific discussion. ←
14:29:45 <Zakim> -webr3
Zakim IRC Bot: -webr3 ←
14:30:50 <Zakim> -manu1
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu1 ←
14:30:52 <Zakim> -tomayac_
Zakim IRC Bot: -tomayac_ ←
14:30:52 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
14:30:58 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
Andy Seaborne: ADJOURNED ←
14:31:07 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
14:31:08 <Zakim> Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(rdf-wg)12:55Z has ended ←
14:31:11 <Zakim> Attendees were manu1, AndyS, +1.617.489.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH, +1.404.978.aabb, tomayac_, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, ivan, webr3
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were manu1, AndyS, +1.617.489.aaaa, Sandro, SteveH, +1.404.978.aabb, tomayac_, +1.617.553.aacc, LeeF, ivan, webr3 ←
14:31:12 <manu1> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
14:31:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/03/21-rdf-wg-minutes.html manu1 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#1) generated 2011-03-21 15:13:37 UTC by 'msporny', comments: 'Minor updates and fixes.'