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Chatlog 2013-02-28

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15:53:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
15:53:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-irc
15:53:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
15:53:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV
15:53:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:53:09 <trackbot> Date: 28 February 2013
15:53:16 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV
15:53:16 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:28 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.02.28
15:53:39 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth
15:53:46 <pgroth> Scribe: Curt Tilmes
15:53:52 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public
15:54:21 <pgroth> Regrets: Luc Moreau, Stephan Zednik
15:55:14 <ctrim> ctrim has joined #PROV
15:56:10 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov
15:57:08 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov
15:57:14 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
15:57:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:57:29 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
15:57:32 <GK> GK has joined #prov
15:57:33 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:57:33 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
15:57:35 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
15:57:51 <Zakim> + +1.661.382.aaaa
15:58:02 <Zakim> +??P28
15:58:04 <ctrim> ctrim: Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:11 <ctrim> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:11 <Zakim> +ctrim; got it
15:58:12 <smiles> zakim, ??P28 is me
15:58:13 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
15:58:31 <Zakim> +??P30
15:58:47 <GK> zakim, ??p30 is me
15:58:48 <Zakim> +GK; got it
15:59:45 <stain> stain has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.02.28
16:00:00 <stain> (love it when zakim just gives up before asking for the code..)
16:00:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:22 <stain> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:00:22 <Zakim> +stain; got it
16:00:51 <hook> hook has joined #prov
16:01:12 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
16:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aabb
16:01:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:02:05 <Chrsistine> Chrsistine has joined #prov
16:02:21 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
<pgroth> Summary: Minutes were approved
16:02:32 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-02-21
16:02:41 <Curt> scribe: Curt
16:02:50 <pgroth> Minutes of Feb 21, 2013
16:02:51 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
16:02:54 <smiles> +1
16:02:55 <Curt> +1
16:03:01 <stain> 0 (not there)
16:03:08 <hook> +1
16:03:12 <dgarijo> +1
16:03:18 <satya> satya has joined #prov
16:03:32 <GK> +1
16:03:35 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
16:03:47 <Dong> Dong has joined #prov
16:03:53 <Zakim> +??P13
16:03:54 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
16:03:56 <pgroth> accepted: Minutes of Feb 21, 2013 telcon
16:04:00 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P13 is me
16:04:01 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
16:04:03 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
16:04:07 <Zakim> + +44.131.467.aacc
16:04:13 <jcheney> zakim, aacc is me
16:04:13 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
16:04:34 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
16:04:41 <pgroth> Topic: PR update
<pgroth> Summary: the group was informed about the date of the proposed recommendation director's call. Also, the group was informed that the prov:hasProvenance relation was changed to prov:has_provenance in order to be more compatibly with the link header specifications.
16:04:42 <Curt> pgroth: scribes, need them
16:05:06 <Curt> pgroth: director's call for PR coming up
16:05:13 <Curt> pgroth: next friday
16:05:20 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
16:05:23 <Curt> pgroth: everything should be staged by then
16:05:58 <pgroth>-  prov:hasProvenance
16:05:59 <Curt> pgroth: need to update link headers to lowercase for link relations
16:06:03 <pgroth> - prov:has_provenance
16:06:24 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:06:24 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:06:25 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:06:33 <khalidBelhajjame> khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
16:06:47 <Zakim> +TomDN
16:06:53 <Zakim> +Luc
16:06:59 <pgroth> topic: wasQuotedFrom
<pgroth> Summary: There was no objection to Simon's response to a public comment on wasQuotedFrom in the primer.
16:07:05 <SamCoppens> zakim, TomDN is me
16:07:05 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Feb/0289.html
16:07:05 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
16:07:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
16:07:17 <SamCoppens> zakim, mute me
16:07:17 <Zakim> SamCoppens should now be muted
16:07:45 <Curt> pgroth: reviewer issue with primer description of wasQuotedFrom, proposed response circulated
16:08:26 <Curt> smiles: changed example to be very clear about the quote relationship
16:08:39 <Curt> pgroth: any objections to that response?
16:08:41 <pgroth> q?
16:08:52 <smiles> OK, thanks, will do
16:09:03 <Curt> pgroth: smiles should send the response
16:09:10 <pgroth> Topic: Notes
<pgroth> Summary: The group was informed of the need to stage all notes by March 5 for publication March 12.
16:09:35 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PublicationRequestMarch12
16:09:53 <Curt> pgroth: All notes should be ready for synchronized release on March 12
16:10:03 <SamCoppens> zakim, TomDN is with me
16:10:03 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
16:10:27 <Curt> pgroth: need to be sent by March 5 to be ready to publish on March 12
16:10:35 <pgroth> q?
16:10:38 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov
16:10:51 <TomDN> Zakim, TomDN is with SamCoppens
16:10:51 <Zakim> TomDN was already listed in SamCoppens, TomDN
16:11:11 <pgroth> subtopic: prov-dc
<pgroth> Summary: All reviewers were positive for release and minor issues were address. The group agreed to publish prov-dc as working draft note. In addition, the editors will let the DC community know about this working draft for review. 
16:11:43 <Curt> dgarijo: some small issues will be addressed today or tomorrow
16:11:48 <pgroth> q?
16:12:05 <pgroth> PROPOSED: to publish prov-dc as a WD Note.
16:12:12 <ivan> +1
16:12:13 <dgarijo> +1
16:12:13 <smiles> +1
16:12:15 <stain> +1
16:12:15 <SamCoppens> +1
16:12:20 <Dong> +1
16:12:21 <Curt> +1
16:12:23 <TomDN> +1
16:12:24 <hook> +1
16:12:26 <dgarijo> +q
16:12:27 <satya> +1
16:12:28 <jcheney> +1
16:12:39 <GK> (abstain - not reviewed)
16:12:59 <Curt> dgarijo: Kai engaged DC people to solicit feedback after release
16:13:05 <pgroth> accepted:  to publish prov-dc as a WD Note.
16:13:06 <GK> Is this being released as NOTEW or WD?
16:13:21 <GK> Ah, thanks.  Then +1
16:13:24 <Curt> pgroth: will be a working draft, not yet a released note
16:13:58 <pgroth> q?
16:14:00 <Curt> pgroth: We will refer the WD to the DC community for their review and for them to recommend as part of DC recommendations
16:14:01 <pgroth> ack dgarijo
16:14:07 <dgarijo> Also, we have to explore the relation between dct:provenance and prov:has_provenance
16:14:13 <pgroth> q?
16:14:20 <pgroth> subtopic: prov-sem
<pgroth> Summary: The group agree to publish prov-sem as working draft note.
16:14:36 <TomDN> @Graham: everything is WD-NOTE except PROV-DM, -Constraints, -N and -O I think
16:15:16 <Curt> jcheney: current version has clearly marked places for more work, released monday, some reviews in, waiting for Paolo
16:15:41 <Curt> jcheney: general consensus to release WD, some questions remain to resolve
16:15:41 <satya> @James, Paolo also sent comments on Feb 27
16:15:58 <GK> @Tom thanks (proposal was originally just NOTE)
16:16:09 <pgroth> q?
16:16:15 <Paolo> I  can send them again
16:16:26 <pgroth> proposed: to publish prov-sem as a first public working draft
16:16:33 <smiles> +1
16:16:34 <satya> +1
16:16:37 <dgarijo> +1
16:16:39 <Curt> +1
16:16:39 <hook> +1
16:16:39 <khalidBelhajjame> +1 (University of Manchester)
16:16:41 <TomDN> +1
16:16:41 <pgroth> +1
16:16:41 <GK> @Tom, or so I thought p- I read "WG Note" ;)
16:16:47 <GK> +1
16:16:52 <Dong> +1
16:17:07 <ivan> +1
16:17:09 <stain> +1
16:17:14 <TallTed> +1
16:17:19 <Paolo> +1
16:17:23 <SamCoppens> +1
16:17:40 <pgroth> accepted: to publish prov-sem as a first public working draft
16:17:41 <jcheney> @Paolo: I found it, no need to resend.
16:17:50 <jcheney> thx
16:17:56 <pgroth> subtopic: prov-xml
<pgroth> Summary: A review of the current status of prov-xml was given. The group agreed to publish prov-xml as a working draft note.
16:18:32 <GK> Curt: believes most comments have been addresses
16:18:40 <hook> q+
16:18:51 <pgroth> ack hook
16:19:06 <GK> … Question about whether qnames have to be qualified … in examples?
16:19:17 <pgroth> q?
16:19:33 <Curt> q+
16:19:43 <pgroth> ack curt
16:20:13 <stain> <:fred> is not a valid qname, but <fred> is
16:20:24 <stain> s/is/has/g
16:20:49 <Curt> q+
16:20:54 <pgroth> ack Curt
16:21:56 <GK> I note that http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#Conformance defines a notion of namespace-well-formed separately from XML well-formed
16:21:58 <Curt> It would be fine to go either way, it is a minor issue
16:22:37 <Curt> pgroth: have tim and stain reviewed yet?
16:23:02 <GK> "Namespace constraint: Prefix Declared
16:23:02 <GK> The namespace prefix, unless it is xml or xmlns, MUST have been declared in a namespace declaration attribute in either the start-tag of the element where the prefix is used or in an ancestor element (i.e., an element in whose http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#dt-content the prefixed markup occurs)."
16:23:02 <Curt> stain: I have not yet done so, but I don't think there are major problems
16:23:12 <pgroth> q?
16:23:24 <Curt> pgroth: Other issues with PROV-XML?
16:23:41 <pgroth> PROPOSED: to publish prov-xml as a working draft note
16:23:48 <TomDN> +1
16:23:49 <SamCoppens> +1
16:23:50 <stain> +1
16:23:50 <Curt> +1
16:23:52 <ivan> +1
16:23:55 <GK> +1
16:23:56 <jcheney> +1
16:23:56 <satya> +1
16:23:56 <Dong> +1
16:23:58 <dgarijo> +1
16:24:04 <stain> which thread describes this qname issue btw..?
16:24:35 <hook> +1
16:24:40 <smiles> +0 (not reviewed)
16:24:43 <pgroth> accepted: to publish prov-xml as a working draft note
16:24:43 <khalidBelhajjame> +1
16:24:52 <stain> ah, but that would just be the empty namespace if there is none defined. That's a valid qname, but probably does not make much sense in PROV-DM land.
16:25:11 <Curt> @stain subject "Re: review of prov-xml"
16:25:23 <pgroth> hard to hear you
16:25:32 <stain> it's xmlns=""
16:25:41 <TomDN> we get about 2 words per sentence
16:25:49 <stain> it breaks out as if there's auto-mute
<pgroth> subtopic: PROV-AQ
<pgroth> Summary: PROV-AQ had just been updated. The group was asked to do a brief rereview by monday if there were any major objections to release as a working draft note. 
16:27:02 <Curt> GK: PROV-AQ has mostly editorial work, 2 major issues: service description, a property relating to the service document
16:27:24 <Curt> GK: a change to the ping back specification, discussed, changes being documented in the WD
16:27:50 <Curt> GK: ping back is really another discovery mechanism for provenance
16:28:14 <Curt> GK: change target uri to entity uri, changing back to target uri, fundamentally editorial, but pervasive
16:29:47 <Curt> pgroth: We have already voted to release PROV-AQ as a working draft, but there was an objection by stain, but that has now been addressed
16:30:10 <Curt> pgroth: By Monday, people who did review it, take a final look for blockers to releasing as a WD
16:30:29 <Curt> pgroth: If there are no objections, will release as a WD
16:30:58 <pgroth> q?
16:31:00 <GK> BTW, I've one more thing to do: update the revision log (copied from mercurial log) - but that shouldn't affect reviews
16:31:12 <stain> what does "by Monday" mean in clock sense?
16:31:12 <pgroth> proposed: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:31:49 <Curt> GK: does that mean we can release Tuesday?
16:32:01 <Curt> pgroth: Yes, we will need to stage by Tuesday
16:32:39 <stain> so we've got over the weekend to re-review PAQ, and then the week after it goes out with the rest ?
16:33:05 <Curt> GK: I'm busy on that day, can Paul stage?
16:33:09 <Curt> pgroth: yes, I will stage
16:33:26 <stain> mm.. so it's a +1 / -1 kind of review
16:33:49 <stain> fine by me
16:33:53 <Curt> pgroth: We need to know about blockers/major objections by Monday to get it staged and out
16:33:59 <GK> @stian thanks
16:34:02 <pgroth> proposed: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:34:10 <smiles> +1
16:34:10 <khalidBelhajjame> +1
16:34:11 <GK> +1
16:34:12 <satya> +1
16:34:13 <ivan> +1
16:34:14 <dgarijo> +1
16:34:14 <Curt> +1
16:34:15 <TomDN> +1
16:34:16 <Paolo> +1
16:34:17 <SamCoppens> +1
16:34:19 <Dong> +1
16:34:19 <stain> +1 (except for the awkward date format! :) )
16:34:19 <jcheney> +1
16:34:50 <hook> +1
16:35:05 <Curt> pgroth: GK - can you send out an email with the URL to review?
16:35:06 <Curt> GK: yes
16:35:07 <stain> [ relevant XKCD: http://xkcd.com/1179/ ]
16:35:19 <pgroth> accepted: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:35:43 <pgroth> subtopic: other notes
16:36:18 <Curt> pgroth: need final updates on other notes (primer, overview, links) to point to the right versions of everything
16:36:19 <Zakim> -ctrim
16:36:27 <pgroth> Proposed: to publish prov-primer, prov-overview, prov- links as working drafts
16:36:34 <TomDN> +1
16:36:35 <Curt> +1
16:36:36 <stain> +1
16:36:37 <smiles> +1
16:36:37 <dgarijo> +1
16:36:38 <ivan> +1
16:36:39 <jcheney> +1
16:36:39 <satya> +1
16:36:39 <SamCoppens> +1
16:36:46 <khalidBelhajjame> +1
16:36:56 <GK> +1
16:37:04 <Paolo> +1
16:37:11 <pgroth> accepted: to publish prov-primer, prov-overview, prov- links as working drafts
16:37:30 <dgarijo> yes
16:38:01 <Curt> pgroth: staging XML?
16:38:03 <smiles> yes
16:38:11 <Curt> Curt: will make sure it gets staged
16:38:24 <Curt> jcheney: will stage PROV-SEM
16:38:30 <ivan> q+
16:38:31 <Curt> jcheney: will discuss process with Luc
16:38:36 <smiles> Is it a particular time on Tuesday?
16:38:44 <pgroth> ack ivan
16:38:49 <TomDN> fyi - we will resolve PROV-Dictionary validation issues on Monday
16:38:54 <pgroth> i can't hear you
16:39:24 <Curt> ivan: the web links for document provenance (?)
16:39:34 <ivan> zakim, unmute
16:39:34 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', ivan
16:39:45 <pgroth> zakim, who's noisy?
16:39:56 <Zakim> pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (38%), Ivan (65%)
16:40:26 <Curt> pgroth: If you want to include the provenance for your document, tell Ivan where to point the links
16:40:28 <ivan> you guys should give me all the links to the provenance directory before tuesday
16:40:35 <ivan> exactly
16:40:35 <ivan> thanks
16:40:44 <pgroth> q?
16:41:02 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:41:04 <dgarijo> bbye
16:41:04 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
16:41:07 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
16:41:08 <GK> Bye
16:41:08 <Dong> thanks, bye
16:41:09 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
16:41:09 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:41:11 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:41:12 <stain> bye
16:41:12 <Zakim> -pgroth
16:41:14 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:41:14 <Zakim> -SamCoppens
16:41:16 <Zakim> -Luc
16:41:18 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aabb
16:41:20 <pgroth> rrsagent, set log public
16:41:21 <Zakim> -stain
16:41:22 <Zakim> -TallTed
16:41:24 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
16:41:27 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
16:41:29 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon
16:41:29 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:41:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, +1.661.382.aaaa, ctrim, smiles, GK, stain, TallTed, +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller], Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo,
16:41:32 <Zakim> ... +44.131.467.aacc, jcheney, Ivan, Luc, SamCoppens, TomDN
16:41:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:41:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:41:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:41:38 <RRSAgent> I see no action items