From Provenance WG Wiki
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14:48:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov 14:48:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-irc 14:48:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:48:08 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov 14:48:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 14:48:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 14:48:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:48:11 <trackbot> Date: 14 June 2012 14:48:24 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public 14:48:38 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV <luc>Regrets: Sandro, Graham, James Cheney 14:48:38 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes 14:48:51 <pgroth> @Luc that should do it 14:50:37 <Luc> thanks 14:50:46 <Luc> did you receive my email to the mailing list, with copy of agenda 14:51:22 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov 14:51:29 <pgroth> yes just got it 14:51:36 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov 14:51:44 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started 14:51:52 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa 14:52:04 <TomDN> Zakim, +329 is me 14:52:04 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it 14:52:19 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me 14:52:19 <Zakim> sorry, TomDN, muting is not permitted when only one person is present 14:52:44 <Zakim> +??P3 14:52:52 <Zakim> +??P2 14:52:55 <pgroth> Zakim, ??P3 is me 14:52:56 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it 14:54:08 <Luc> chair: luc moreau 14:54:13 <Luc> scribe: paolo missier 14:54:18 <Luc> topic: admin <Luc>Summary: Next week teleconference is cancelled since the face to face meeting will be on Friday and Saturday. Minutes of last week's teleconference were approved. 14:54:56 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov 14:55:15 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:55:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-minutes.html MacTed 14:55:18 <MacTed> RRSAgent, make logs public 14:55:21 <Zakim> + +1.661.382.aabb 14:55:38 <MacTed> (nothing's made public, if the draft isn't produced first) 14:55:42 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov 14:56:35 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc 14:56:42 <tlebo> zakim, I am aacc 14:56:42 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it 14:57:15 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aadd 14:57:42 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim has joined #prov 14:57:43 <Luc> zakim, aadd is me 14:57:43 <Zakim> +Luc; got it 14:57:53 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me 14:57:53 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted 14:58:04 <CraigTrim> Zakim, mute me 14:58:04 <Zakim> sorry, CraigTrim, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 14:58:08 <satya> satya has joined #prov 14:58:23 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov 14:58:31 <Zakim> +??P9 14:59:30 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov 14:59:33 <Luc> @craigTrim, do you want to introduce yourselve at the end of the admin topic? 15:00:06 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes 15:00:08 <Jun> Jun has joined #prov 15:00:12 <pgroth> pgroth has left #prov 15:00:23 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov 15:00:31 <Zakim> -TomDN 15:00:33 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 15:00:45 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:00:47 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 15:00:48 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 15:00:48 <CraigTrim> Sure 15:00:49 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P1 15:01:02 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 15:01:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see pgroth, ??P2, +1.661.382.aabb, tlebo, Luc, ??P9, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed (muted), ??P1 15:01:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see pgroth, Jun, Curt, smiles, satya, CraigTrim, tlebo, Paolo, khalidbelhajjame, TomDN, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, sandro, trackbot, stain 15:01:16 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov 15:01:24 <Zakim> +??P32 15:01:40 <satya> Zakim, ??P32 is me 15:01:40 <Zakim> +satya; got it 15:01:41 <Luc> proposed: to accept Minutes of the June 7, 2012 Telecon 15:01:41 <Zakim> +??P18 15:01:47 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov 15:01:51 <Curt> +1 15:01:56 <satya> +1 15:01:56 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P18 is me 15:01:58 <tlebo> +1 15:01:59 <smiles> +1 15:02:00 <TomDN> +1 15:02:00 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it 15:02:01 <CraigTrim> +1 15:02:10 <dgarijo> +0 (I attended partially) 15:02:12 <Zakim> +TomDN 15:02:14 <jun_> jun_ has joined #prov 15:02:25 <Paolo> +1 but not sure I have seen the minutes 15:02:34 <Luc> resolved: Minutes of the June 7, 2012 Telecon 15:03:01 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov 15:03:06 <Paolo> action on Luc: issue of collection membership completeness 15:03:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - on 15:03:21 <Paolo> Paolo and Luc consider this action complete 15:03:26 <Zakim> +??P4 15:03:41 <Paolo> new member CraigTrim 15:04:08 <Paolo> Craig IBM very interested in provenance -- have been disseminating current results on WG within IBM 15:04:27 <Paolo> Craig still catching up, main role is to disseminate results within IBM 15:04:37 <Paolo> CRaig will be at the F2F 15:04:39 <Luc> topic: F2F3 <Luc>Summary: Topics for discussion at the face to face meeting have been put up on wiki. Timetable will be finalized early next week. Aims are 1) to make progress towards last call, 2) decide on and schedule work on other documents (notes and outreach), and 3) prepare call for implementation 15:04:51 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/F2F3Schedule 15:05:33 <Paolo> pgroth F2F will include an update on status -- then focus on last call 15:06:03 <Paolo> pgroth what remains to be done going into last call, what is the outreach strategy 15:06:42 <Paolo> pgroth discussion on notes as well as additional "outreach" notes (work with schema.org for example) 15:06:56 <Luc> q? 15:06:57 <Paolo> pgroth also discussion on implementations 15:07:14 <Paolo> (can't open the program page at w3c...0 15:07:36 <pgroth> if you have other topics please let us know 15:07:37 <Luc> q? 15:07:40 <dgarijo> @Paolo: I think the whole wiki is down 15:07:52 <pgroth> wiki is very shaky 15:07:53 <Luc> topic: Updates <luc>Summary: Progress on the various documents was discussed. Action-92 is set on Graham to provide an example of contextualization which may break rdf semantics. 15:08:02 <Paolo> @daniel back on now 15:08:20 <dgarijo> I can scribe 15:08:21 <tlebo> I'll scribe 15:08:26 <tlebo> go ahead, Dani 15:08:28 <dgarijo> ok 15:08:40 <dgarijo> Paolo: One action on Luc about completeness (done) 15:08:51 <dgarijo> ... discussion in the list, Paolo made edits in DM 15:09:19 <dgarijo> ... there can be some inconsistencies sometimes 15:09:47 <dgarijo> ... another issue, about membership, has already been addressed 15:09:55 <dgarijo> ... I joined prov-o call on monday 15:10:07 <dgarijo> ... and the changes were well received 15:10:17 <Luc> q? 15:10:22 <dgarijo> Luc: any questions? 15:10:47 <Paolo> Luc contextualization still an issue: Tim? 15:11:21 <Paolo> tlebo converged on contextualization being a case of specialization 15:11:33 <Paolo> tlebo DM has converged to that def 15:11:47 <Paolo> tlebo next step prov-o will capture that in the ontology 15:12:17 <Paolo> tlebo GK still has concerns about violating /breaking RDF semantics -- GK invited to discuss 15:12:52 <Luc> q? 15:13:01 <Paolo> tlebo is contextualization at risk? concerns that it's going too far, its capabilities don't warrant the extra level of explanation for that construct 15:13:53 <Paolo> Luc: setting an action on Graham to elaborate on his concern and provide an example 15:14:31 <Paolo> Luc: useful to see how the construct is expressed in RDF. when is this happening? 15:14:37 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Bundle_contextualization 15:14:37 <Paolo> tlebo: early next week 15:15:33 <pgroth> +q 15:15:35 <Paolo> Luc: should contextualization be in the doc, or marked as "at risk"? propose to address this after the review, and make this a question to reviewers 15:15:39 <dgarijo> yes, I think it is reasonable 15:15:43 <Paolo> tlebo: agree 15:15:58 <khalidbelhajjame> I agree 15:16:18 <Paolo> pgroth: need not be a question to reviewers -- it will be addressed if it does come up during review 15:16:37 <pgroth> ack pgroth 15:17:02 <pgroth> +q 15:17:26 <Paolo> Luc: Graham has raised an issue on contextualization so he will have an opportunity to respond to that 15:17:30 <pgroth> ack pgroth 15:17:31 <Luc> ack pg 15:17:32 <khalidbelhajjame> I guess here we are talking about internal reviewing. A more important opinion w.r.t. contextualization is that of external reviewers 15:17:52 <Paolo> tlebo: state of prov-o 15:18:00 <pgroth> @khalidbelhajjame it's important that the group is good with it 15:18:21 <Paolo> tlebo: focus on resolving dependencies on DM 15:19:03 <Paolo> tlebo: ... on getting DM settled. DM is becoming the blocker on prov-o. once dm is through, it will be easier to release prov-o 15:19:14 <Luc> q? 15:19:31 <Paolo> smiles: primer is ready to review 15:19:42 <dgarijo> @Tim: Thanks for putting all toghether in the doc, Tim. 15:20:12 <Luc> q? 15:20:19 <Paolo> Luc: no progress on Constraints, will meet at IPAW to agree on how to proceed (Luc, James, Paolo) 15:20:23 <pgroth> +q 15:20:37 <Luc> topic: Schedule for internal release and review <Luc>Summary: Prov-dm, prov-n, and prov-primer are now released for internal review. Reviewers were assigned to each document, and deadline set to next week, before F2F3. It is anticipated that Prov-o technical aspects will be addressed shortly, and a document ready for review by June 21. PROV-constraints editors will meet next week, and propose a schedule for release. The Working Group is reminded how important this review is, since the WG has to decide whether these documents will be last call working drafts. Any review, even partial, is welcome. See agenda for details of documents and questions to address. 15:20:38 <Luc> ack pg #15:21:16 <Paolo> TOPIC: organizing documents reviews 15:21:56 <dgarijo> yes 15:21:58 <Paolo> Luc: DM; released today, all outstanding issues addressed AFA editors are concerned 15:22:00 <TomDN> yes :) 15:22:04 <dgarijo> I'll review it for next week. 15:22:10 <khalidbelhajjame> yes, I will review it 15:22:11 <Paolo> Luc: can reviewers confirm availability 15:22:36 <khalidbelhajjame> I will review the dm in the weekend 15:22:42 <dgarijo> next wednesday? 15:22:46 <TomDN> I'm planning to review it this weekend 15:22:51 <TomDN> (in the air) 15:23:24 <Paolo> Luc: propose DM review deadline by Wed June 20th 15:23:24 <TomDN> sounds good to me 15:23:25 <pgroth> +q 15:23:55 <pgroth> ack pgroth 15:24:19 <Paolo> pgroth: additional informal reviews welcome by F2F or sooner 15:24:56 <Paolo> Luc: prov-n also released today. reviewers please confirm? 15:24:56 <TomDN> +q 15:25:03 <TomDN> zakim, unmute me 15:25:03 <Zakim> TomDN was not muted, TomDN 15:25:42 <Paolo> TomDN: stephen on hols but still planning to do the review 15:25:44 <Luc> ack pg 15:25:47 <Luc> ack tom 15:25:55 <TomDN> s/stephen/Sam 15:26:25 <Paolo> Luc: propose PROV-N review deadline by Thu June 21st 15:26:55 <Paolo> Luc: PROV-O? 15:27:01 <dgarijo> @Luc: Khalid is not on the phone. He has told me to say that he will possibly review PROV-N as well 15:27:16 <TomDN> same here for Sam. (not available right now, but will still review the document, probable after f2f3) 15:27:37 <Paolo> tlebo: propose PROV-O ready for review July 13th 15:28:16 <Paolo> Luc: what are the outstanding issues? 15:28:57 <pgroth> +q 15:29:01 <Paolo> tlebo: contextualization, collections, working through examples, additional narrative for a variety of terms, existing narrative needs editing, harmonizing 15:29:13 <Luc> ack pgro 15:30:00 <Paolo> pgroth: key issue for last call is tech features are frozen. List of issues here are only contextualization and collections. the latter have not changed very much 15:30:16 <Paolo> pgroth: so what are the remaining /tech/ issues? 15:30:23 <Paolo> tlebo: contextualization and final review of collections 15:30:37 <Paolo> q+ 15:30:50 <pgroth> q+ 15:31:00 <pgroth> he's on vacation 15:31:59 <Luc> ack paolo 15:32:51 <Paolo> pgroth: main issue with Last Call is tech issues, editing can happen afterwards 15:32:55 <Luc> q? 15:33:01 <Luc> ack pgr 15:33:14 <Paolo> pgroth: can review ontology to help separate out tech vs editorial 15:34:24 <Paolo> tlebo: technically, close to being done -- provo html needs more work. so if all that matters is technical completeness, it can be done faster 15:35:10 <pgroth> +q 15:35:21 <Paolo> Luc: sandro and Ivan confirm that it is about technical content, i.e. frozen ontology is enough. then we get a chance to clarify and explain things better 15:36:08 <Paolo> tlebo: ontology can be finalized by mid next week, and whatever falls out of it into html (examples of terms etc.) 15:36:34 <Paolo> tlebo: to be released on June 14th 15:36:43 <Luc> ack pg 15:37:16 <Paolo> pgroth: process calls for >= 3 wks of last call feedback. 15:38:02 <Paolo> Luc: Sam, pgroth, Luc to review prov-o 15:38:17 <Paolo> pgroth: confirms 15:38:30 <CraigTrim> sure 15:38:54 <Paolo> Craig added to list of reviewers 15:39:21 <Paolo> Luc: constraints doc: not sure when it will be ready. Will report back to group at F2F with an estimate 15:39:22 <Luc> q? 15:39:24 <pgroth> +q 15:40:08 <Paolo> pgroth: the constraints doc "falls out" of the DM -- is it on rec track? 15:40:16 <Paolo> Luc: it is on Rec track 15:40:43 <Paolo> Luc: we can pull it out and possibly make it a note 15:41:12 <Paolo> pgroth: concerned about timing -- lagging considerably behind and it's a complicated doc 15:41:50 <Paolo> Luc: yes, but it has been simplified. Also, no need to release all docs at the same time 15:42:04 <Luc> q? 15:42:06 <Luc> ack pg 15:42:29 <Paolo> Luc: primer doc 15:42:45 <Paolo> smiles: ready for review 15:42:53 <Paolo> Luc: reviewers? 15:43:06 <TomDN> I'll review it 15:43:07 <pgroth> volunteer 15:43:22 <pgroth> +q to ask craig 15:43:32 <stephenc> OK, I volunteer 15:43:39 <CraigTrim> I've already been reviewing it, so go ahead and me in too 15:43:57 <Luc> ack pg 15:43:57 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask craig 15:44:16 <Paolo> smiles: familiarity with prov-n desirable... (Paolo) 15:44:16 <CraigTrim> agreed - it's been a good doc so far back to IBM 15:44:33 <Luc> prov-primer reviewers: paolo, paul, stephenc, craig, luc 15:45:00 <Luc> q? 15:45:22 <Paolo> Luc: update to prov-aq to be addressed later 15:45:51 <Paolo> Luc: questions for reviewers: can the doc be released as a /regular/ WD? if not, what are the blocking issues 15:46:21 <Paolo> Luc: can the doc be pub as last call WD? see link to LC def by W3C 15:47:01 <Paolo> Luc: in particular, reviewers who have raised issues, can they be closed? 15:47:48 <Paolo> Luc: proposal wasREvisionOf -> wasRevisedFrom: no consensus, so can reviewers look at that 15:48:37 <Paolo> Luc: also in DM: "primitive data types" that are in RDF. However RDF is changing, so which version are we referring to? RDF 1.1 WD data types are different 15:49:15 <Luc> q? 15:49:18 <Paolo> Luc: worked with Ivan to make us robust wrt changes in RDF 1.1 -- should we list all data types as 1.1? reviewers should look into this 15:49:35 <Paolo> q+ 15:49:58 <tlebo> paolo: what if someone says "no"? 15:50:10 <pgroth> +q 15:50:28 <Luc> ack paol 15:50:48 <tlebo> pgroth: we look at the issues and get to a resolution. 15:51:08 <tlebo> ... if no resolution, then we can vote. 15:51:12 <Paolo> pgroth: many options available -- if it is clear there is no resolution, we can vote. 15:51:44 <Luc> q? 15:51:47 <Luc> ack pg 15:52:12 <pgroth> +q 15:52:37 <Paolo> pgroth: is there a LC for notes (primer)? 15:52:52 <Paolo> Luc: LC question does not apply to primer 15:53:43 <Paolo> Luc: decision can be deferred, to allow for further changes to the primer 15:53:44 <Luc> q? 15:53:51 <Luc> ack pg 15:54:10 <Paolo> pgroth: state of PAQ: next WD ready by next Tue 15:54:55 <Paolo> pgroth: after F2F we'll look at PAQ in detail again 15:55:13 <Luc> q? 15:55:14 <TomDN> +q 15:56:00 <TomDN> ack tomdn 15:56:11 <Paolo> Luc: call arrangements for next week? 15:56:15 <Zakim> -??P1 15:56:23 <Paolo> pgroth: call should be cancelled next week 15:56:51 <Luc> q? 15:56:55 <Paolo> Luc: call cancelled 15:57:07 <Zakim> -??P2 15:57:09 <Zakim> - +1.661.382.aabb 15:57:10 <Zakim> -tlebo 15:57:10 <Zakim> -??P9 15:57:10 <dgarijo> byee 15:57:16 <Zakim> -pgroth 15:57:18 <TomDN> (I'll also be driving from San Francisco to SB on monday, by the way) 15:57:20 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes 15:57:23 <Zakim> -Luc 15:57:24 <Zakim> -dgarijo 15:57:26 <pgroth> trackbot, end telecon 15:57:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees 15:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:57:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/06/14-prov-minutes.html trackbot 15:57:34 <Zakim> -??P4 15:57:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye 15:57:35 <RRSAgent> I see no action items 15:57:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +329331aaaa, TomDN, pgroth, +1.661.382.aabb, +1.518.276.aacc, tlebo, +44.238.059.aadd, Luc, Curt_Tilmes, MacTed, satya, dgarijo # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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