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14:51:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov 14:51:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-irc 14:51:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:51:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov 14:51:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 14:51:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 14:52:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:52:00 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2012 14:52:01 <pgroth> Zakim, this will be PROV 14:52:01 <Zakim> ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes 14:52:25 <pgroth> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.19 14:52:33 <pgroth> Chair: Paul Groth 14:52:44 <pgroth> Scribe: Curt Tilmes 14:52:51 <pgroth> rrsagent, make logs public 14:53:03 <pgroth> Regrets: Jun Zhao 14:55:57 <Curt> Curt has joined #prov 14:56:25 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started 14:56:32 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes 14:56:45 <pgroth> hi curt 14:56:48 <pgroth> it's all set-up 14:56:55 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov 14:57:02 <Curt> got it 14:57:33 <Zakim> +??P1 14:58:14 <Zakim> +??P6 15:00:35 <Zakim> +Sandro 15:00:49 <satya> satya has joined #prov 15:00:58 <Curt> regrets: Graham, Jun 15:00:58 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 15:01:08 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov 15:01:09 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:01:09 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 15:01:12 <Zakim> +??P3 15:01:24 <Zakim> +??P12 15:01:36 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov 15:01:42 <Zakim> + +1.315.723.aaaa 15:01:48 <tlebo> zakim, I am aaaa 15:01:48 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it 15:01:59 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo 15:02:00 <khalidbelhajjame> khalidbelhajjame has joined #prov 15:02:01 <Luc> Luc has joined #prov 15:02:17 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov 15:02:51 <Zakim> +??P2 15:02:56 <YolandaGil> YolandaGil has joined #prov 15:02:58 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P2 is me 15:03:00 <Zakim> +[ISI] 15:03:13 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it 15:03:14 <Zakim> +Luc 15:03:22 <Zakim> + +329331aabb 15:03:25 <Zakim> -??P3 15:03:28 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov 15:03:32 <Zakim> +??P3 15:03:47 <TomDN> Zakim, +329331aabb is me 15:03:47 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it 15:03:53 <Zakim> +??P15 15:03:59 <jcheney> Zakim, ??P15 is me 15:03:59 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it 15:04:06 <stephenc> stephenc has joined #prov 15:04:40 <pgroth> Topic: Admin <pgroth> Summary: Minutes were approved. Action items were cleared-up 15:04:49 <pgroth> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.19 15:04:57 <Curt> +1 15:04:58 <TomDN> +1 15:04:59 <satya> +1 15:05:04 <Paolo> +1 15:05:11 <jcheney> +1 15:05:25 <smiles> Isn't that link just the agenda? 15:05:31 <tlebo> +1 15:05:36 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12 15:05:52 <pgroth> Approved- Minutes of the April 12 2012 Telecon 15:06:09 <TomDN> Note Sam is held up in an overlapping meeting atm. He will join us shortly 15:06:34 <Curt> pgroth: action 70, review of 84,262,263,268 15:06:37 <Curt> luc: completed 15:06:50 <Curt> pgroth: action 73 15:06:57 <Curt> stephen: can be closed 15:07:26 <Curt> pgroth: action 74,76,77 use cases for collections have been provided 15:07:36 <Curt> pgroth: scribes, need them 15:07:43 <pgroth> Topic: PAQ Reviews <pgroth> Summary: All reviewers were making progress on their reviews of the paq. 15:08:13 <Curt> pgroth: how is review coming? 15:08:20 <Curt> curt: in progress 15:08:31 <Curt> pgroth: olaf in progress 15:08:47 <tlebo> \me looking forward to reviewing it when he finds time. 15:08:49 <Curt> TomDN: Sam will submit PAQ review tomorrow 15:09:04 <Curt> tlebo: will review soon 15:09:13 <Curt> luc: will review soon, finishing off other documents first 15:09:41 <Curt> pgroth: after week-end for PAQ reviews should be ok 15:10:04 <jcheney> NB - the minutes say: "Curt, Olaf, Sam, Tim and Luc agreed to review it, mostly by around April 20" 15:10:15 <pgroth> Topic: Release of Documents <pgroth> Summary: Editors gave a summary of their updates based on the reviews provided by the group. The group unanimously voted to release prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n, prov-o and the prov-primer as working drafts. Editors agreed to have their documents ready for publication by April 30 for publication May 3. 15:10:38 <tlebo> [ a prov:Entity; prov:value "mostly by around April 20. "; prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12> ] . 15:10:41 <Curt> pgroth: several changes need to be done/have been discussed 15:11:01 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/diff.html 15:11:06 <Curt> ... invalidation/collection vs. dictionary 15:11:18 <Curt> luc: worked on DM, changes circulated 15:11:40 <Curt> ... paolo/james may talk about other documents 15:11:52 <Curt> ... all changes recommended by reviewers have been addressed 15:12:03 <Curt> ... accounts/annotations not covered in this release 15:12:13 <Curt> ... a draft for invalidation has been proposed 15:12:38 <Curt> ... assuming PROV-O team can include invalidation, should all be ready 15:12:48 <Curt> ... there was a suggestion to rename collection to dictionary 15:12:58 <Curt> ... may want to incorporate that change now 15:14:03 <Curt> jcheney: prov-constraints changes 15:14:06 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints-revised.html 15:14:30 <Curt> ... starting from last reviewed version 15:14:30 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints.html 15:14:56 <Curt> ... two major criticisms from tim/graham/james -- organization and lack of clarity of purpose 15:14:56 <Luc> ^^^ not the right url 15:14:59 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm-constraints.html 15:15:23 <Curt> ... first part easier to address. reorganized what was there to group similar things together 15:15:35 <Curt> ... sections on inferences, and different types of constraints 15:15:51 <Curt> ... haven't invented a complete story fitting this document into the overall context 15:16:04 <Curt> ... added notes about some things that still need explanation 15:16:31 <Curt> ... graham/james asked the overall purpose for this document 15:16:54 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me 15:16:54 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted 15:17:12 <Curt> ... taken the view that this document adds additional information to a provenance description 15:17:23 <Curt> ... wants guidance from group 15:17:40 <Curt> ... if we release, should emphasize that this is a working draft 15:17:54 <pgroth> q? 15:17:57 <Curt> ... still internalizing some aspects of the document 15:18:03 <pgroth> q? 15:18:12 <Paolo> PROV-N - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html 15:18:50 <Curt> paolo: prov-n changes incorporated - sections rearranged for clarification of scope, organization 15:19:17 <Curt> ... new section 1, 2 explain scope/context 15:20:03 <Curt> ... simon suggested discuss arguments of each expression clearly, new version clarifies that for each example 15:20:20 <Curt> ... includes different meanings for optional arguments 15:20:42 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov 15:21:02 <Zakim> +??P38 15:21:13 <Curt> ... tim suggested hyperlink nodes to yacc description, still need to add some yacc/html stuff 15:21:15 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P38 is me 15:21:16 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it 15:21:28 <pgroth> +q 15:21:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth 15:21:33 <pgroth> q? 15:21:43 <tlebo> latest draft to release: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e35dff3bbd37/ontology/spwd/2012-04-18-vote-for-public-release/prov-o.html#Start 15:21:44 <Curt> tlebo: prov-o 15:22:03 <tlebo> reworked expanded terms section reworked collections section added infrastructure and stubs for examples in cross reference sections. 15:22:05 <Curt> ... 3 biggest changes: rework terms section, collections section 15:22:16 <Curt> ... thanks stain/khalid 15:22:31 <Curt> ... crossreference, added stubs for examples 15:22:35 <tlebo> last round of comments being managed at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Prov-o_draft_review_2_April_2012 15:23:06 <Curt> ... issues being addressed/closed there ^^ 15:23:13 <pgroth> q? 15:23:27 <dgarijo> thanks Tim for including everything so fast. 15:23:30 <Curt> smiles: primer 15:23:41 <smiles> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html 15:23:42 <Curt> ... addressed all reviews 15:23:53 <Curt> ... added images to illustrate examples 15:23:56 <Curt> ... many other minor things 15:24:05 <tlebo> += "thanks to daniel for help on reworked expaned terms section" 15:24:08 <Curt> ... up to date with regard to prov-dm prov-n 15:24:25 <pgroth> q? 15:24:27 <Curt> ... explaining things in a more intuitive way 15:24:39 <Luc> q+ 15:24:42 <Curt> pgroth: proposals to vote on 15:24:48 <pgroth> ack luc 15:25:04 <Curt> luc: simon brought up how we use prov and prov-dm 15:25:10 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov 15:25:14 <Curt> ... should use prov instead of prov-dm in some places 15:25:30 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN 15:25:30 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it 15:25:32 <Curt> ... looked at constraints, that apply to prov model 15:25:58 <Curt> ... should call prov-constraints instead of prov-dm-constraints 15:26:12 <pgroth> Proposal 1: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations. 15:26:36 <MacTed> +1 15:26:39 <Curt> +1 15:26:40 <tlebo> +1 15:26:40 <TomDN> +1 15:26:40 <smiles> +1 15:26:41 <Paolo> +1 15:26:42 <dgarijo> +1 15:26:44 <SamCoppens> +1 15:26:45 <stephenc> +1 15:26:45 <jcheney> +1 15:26:46 <sandro> +1 15:26:47 <YolandaGil> +1 15:26:50 <satya> +1 15:27:08 <pgroth> accepted: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations. 15:27:25 <pgroth> Proposal 2: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft 15:27:32 <tlebo> +1 15:27:33 <Paolo> +1 15:27:33 <smiles> +1 15:27:33 <satya> +1 15:27:34 <Curt> +1 15:27:34 <sandro> +1 15:27:34 <dgarijo> +1 15:27:35 <SamCoppens> +1 15:27:35 <MacTed> +1 15:27:35 <jcheney> +1 15:27:36 <TomDN> +1 15:27:37 <YolandaGil> +1 15:27:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft 15:27:54 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:28:12 <pgroth> Proposal 3: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft 15:28:15 <MacTed> +1 15:28:17 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:28:19 <Curt> +1 15:28:19 <sandro> +1 15:28:20 <TomDN> +1 15:28:20 <SamCoppens> +1 15:28:21 <tlebo> +1 15:28:21 <dgarijo> +1 15:28:24 <YolandaGil> +1 15:28:28 <Paolo> +1 15:28:34 <jcheney> +1 15:28:43 <satya> +1 15:28:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft 15:29:03 <pgroth> Proposal 4: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft 15:29:07 <smiles> +1 15:29:08 <MacTed> +1 15:29:08 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:29:08 <tlebo> +1 15:29:09 <Curt> +1 15:29:09 <TomDN> +1 15:29:10 <dgarijo> +1 15:29:10 <Paolo> +1 15:29:10 <SamCoppens> +1 15:29:10 <sandro> +1 15:29:13 <satya> +1 15:29:15 <YolandaGil> +1 15:29:19 <jcheney> +1 15:29:22 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov 15:29:29 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft 15:29:44 <pgroth> Proposal 5: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft 15:29:45 <satya> +1 15:29:46 <dgarijo> +1 15:29:46 <SamCoppens> +1 15:29:46 <Curt> +1 15:29:47 <smiles> +1 15:29:48 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:29:48 <TomDN> +1 15:29:49 <sandro> +1 15:29:49 <tlebo> +1 15:29:51 <MacTed> +1 15:29:51 <Paolo> +1 15:29:53 <jcheney> +1 15:29:56 <YolandaGil> +1 15:30:10 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft 15:30:24 <pgroth> Proposal 6: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft 15:30:26 <dgarijo> +1 15:30:26 <satya> +1 15:30:27 <SamCoppens> +1 15:30:27 <jcheney> +1 15:30:28 <smiles> +1 15:30:28 <Zakim> +??P14 15:30:28 <Curt> +1 15:30:28 <TomDN> +1 15:30:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:30:29 <Paolo> +1 15:30:30 <sandro> +1 15:30:32 <MacTed> +1 15:30:34 <YolandaGil> +1 15:30:47 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft 15:31:04 <pgroth> q? 15:31:07 <Luc> q+ 15:31:09 <smiles> q+ 15:31:14 <pgroth> ack Luc 15:31:47 <Luc> q- 15:31:52 <Curt> luc: collection/dictionary question? 15:31:58 <Curt> pgroth: after invalidation 15:31:59 <pgroth> ack smiles 15:32:04 <Luc> i will coordinate 15:32:23 <pgroth> Topic: Collection and Dictionary <pgroth> Summary: Discussion on the mailing list suggested that there was consensus to rename the current prov:Collections to prov:Dictionary. The group agreed that this was a good idea and approved a proposal to make this change in the upcoming release. The group agreed to continue and discuss collections as a whole on the list. 15:33:00 <Curt> pgroth: consensus on mailing list that collections as modeled are really dictionaries. Should we rename to that? 15:33:07 <pgroth> q? 15:33:11 <Curt> ... should that be done for this release? 15:33:33 <Curt> pgroth: a simple renaming 15:33:38 <Paolo> q+ 15:33:39 <Curt> ... editors have issues with that? 15:33:53 <pgroth> ack Paolo 15:34:02 <Curt> paolo: discussed on the list, 15:34:30 <Curt> ... may be some follow on discussion about different types of collections, but no issues with renaming as an editor 15:34:42 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary 15:34:51 <tlebo> :D 15:34:52 <pgroth> rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release 15:35:04 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release 15:35:13 <smiles> +1 15:35:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:35:13 <Paolo> +1 15:35:14 <Curt> +1 15:35:14 <tlebo> +1 15:35:15 <dgarijo> +0 15:35:18 <sandro> +1 15:35:20 <jcheney> +1 15:35:21 <zednik> +1 15:35:21 <MacTed> +0 15:35:26 <TomDN> +0 15:35:28 <satya> 0 15:35:31 <SamCoppens> +0 15:35:52 <Curt> pgroth: for people who voted 0, why? objections? 15:36:08 <satya> q+ 15:36:10 <dgarijo> Because I haven't been able to follow all the discussions around collections. I don't have objections 15:36:38 <Luc> no, we would not 15:36:39 <TomDN> for me: I'm not up to date on the discussion, but have no objections 15:36:46 <Curt> satya: do we have a collection construct? 15:36:47 <SamCoppens> No objections, but not up to date with latest discussion, hence 0 15:36:59 <Curt> pgroth: perhaps add back in after release 15:37:22 <Curt> satya: still discussion needs to happen, won't hold up release 15:37:36 <Curt> pgroth: yes, discussion will continue, question is simply to rename for this release 15:37:43 <MacTed> I think too much discussion remains to make action worthwhile... but I'm not going to block either way 15:37:54 <pgroth> accepted: rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release 15:38:05 <pgroth> q? 15:38:08 <pgroth> ack satya 15:38:18 <pgroth> Topic: Invalidation/Destruction <pgroth> Summary: Luc put together a revised proposal for invalidation and destruction which seemed to have support on the mailing list. The group approved the integration of this proposal into the upcoming release of the documents. 15:38:39 <Curt> pgroth: some discussion around invalidation/destruction, would be nice to have for symmetry 15:38:42 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-invalidation.html 15:38:50 <Curt> ... not too much disagreement around it 15:39:08 <Curt> pgroth: incorporate into DM? 15:39:40 <Curt> luc: we took into account the feedback from macted, graham, and other discussion, folded into the document^^ 15:39:49 <Curt> ... a few people commented they like it 15:39:52 <pgroth> q? 15:40:04 <pgroth> Proposal 7: Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release 15:40:11 <smiles> +1 15:40:12 <Curt> +1 15:40:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:40:13 <tlebo> +1 15:40:14 <TomDN> +1 15:40:15 <MacTed> +1 15:40:17 <dgarijo> +1 15:40:18 <SamCoppens> +1 15:40:20 <jcheney> +1 15:40:22 <stephenc> +1 15:40:22 <sandro> +1 15:40:28 <satya> +1 15:40:29 <Paolo> +1 15:40:29 <zednik> +1 15:40:42 <pgroth> accepted: Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release 15:41:09 <smiles> q+ 15:41:12 <Curt> pgroth: that covers this synchronous release. any other issues about that release? 15:41:19 <pgroth> ack smiles 15:41:29 <Curt> smiles: the documents refer to each other with correct references? 15:41:53 <Luc> yes, it's part of the release process 15:41:55 <tlebo> prov-o's references need to be updated too. That's just part of publication, right? 15:41:59 <Curt> pgroth: luc to coordinate release, can you check that? 15:42:02 <Curt> luc: yes 15:42:13 <Luc> q+ 15:42:13 <pgroth> q? 15:42:22 <pgroth> ack Luc 15:42:33 <Curt> luc: we need to agree on the actual release date. 15:42:55 <Curt> ... two approvals to pass, get short names for new documents, then publication requests for all new documents 15:43:08 <Curt> ... need 4 working days of notice, what is a reasonable date? 15:43:29 <Curt> ... can only publish on tuesday or thursday 15:43:36 <Curt> ... perhaps tuesday May 1? 15:43:52 <pgroth> is that a holiday sandro? 15:43:57 <smiles> yes, possible, I think 15:43:57 <Curt> luc: all editors would need to be ready by next Tuesday or Wednesday 15:43:58 <tlebo> That is very tight for me. 15:44:27 <jcheney> q+ 15:44:39 <pgroth> ack jcheney 15:44:52 <Curt> jcheney: how much work to get from where we are with constraints to fit required style? 15:45:12 <Curt> luc: the version was html 5 compliant mostly, not sure if you have preserved that 15:45:30 <Curt> luc: most things get taken care of to create the compliant files 15:45:52 <Curt> ... look at models subdir in mercurial to see it 15:45:58 <pgroth> q? 15:46:15 <Curt> jcheney: will luc/paolo do that publication work or james? 15:46:30 <Paolo> I can help but I have not done it before 15:46:36 <Curt> luc: if there aren't many HTML problems, luc could do it in a couple hours, would be nice to get some help with that 15:46:50 <Curt> sandro: all editors should try to make compliant html and check links 15:47:28 <Curt> pgroth: try end of next week, then go for May 3? 15:47:57 <Curt> pgroth: would make the request for the names 15:48:08 <Curt> luc: yes, transition request today, will copy all editors 15:48:34 <Curt> luc: time to make the document compliant with rules after making publication request 15:48:42 <smiles> yes 15:48:45 <Luc> +1 15:48:49 <Paolo> ok 15:48:53 <tlebo> q+ 15:48:55 <Curt> pgroth: Editors -- May 3 release ok? 15:49:08 <Curt> tlebo: what needs to be done by May 3 15:49:26 <Curt> pgroth: make the compliant document available 15:49:31 <pgroth> ack tlebo 15:49:44 <Curt> luc: that should be done by April 30 to start process and checks 15:50:00 <Curt> tlebo: 4/30 sounds reasonable 15:50:01 <tlebo> q- 15:50:19 <pgroth> q? 15:50:32 <tlebo> and the WG! :D 15:50:34 <Curt> pgroth: 4/30 for editors to be ready, 5/3 for actual release 15:50:38 <pgroth> Topic: Discussion on OWL RL <pgroth> Summary: There is a requirement that the ontology be "lightweight". This has been operationalized by ensuring that the ontology is compatible with OWL-RL. However, this was causing difficulty in appropriately mapping to the DM. Through discussion on the mailing list, a new approach was suggested where OWL-RL was treated as a baseline but certain deviations were allowed but needed to be documented. The group agreed that this was guidance the editors of prov-o should follow. 15:51:12 <Curt> pgroth: current ontology compliant with RL, but has difficulties modeling all constructs of the DM 15:51:32 <Curt> ... RL is operationalize 'lightweight ontology' requirement 15:51:53 <Curt> ... editors and PROV-O people have a hard time with the RL constraint 15:52:08 <Curt> ... would be nice to relax that requirement and allow certain other non-RL constructs to be used 15:52:29 <Curt> ... Is that ok? How do we make sure we remain 'lightweight'? 15:52:59 <Curt> <silence> 15:53:00 <pgroth> q? 15:53:01 <tlebo> q+ 15:53:10 <dgarijo> I think that the RL++ proposed by Tim made sense. 15:53:14 <pgroth> ack tlebo 15:53:29 <Curt> tlebo: we generally agreed to relax RL slightly, and enumerate the violations 15:53:44 <Curt> ... clearly point out the constructs that aren't recognized by RL 15:53:58 <Curt> ... RL reasoners can still omit those constructs 15:54:12 <Curt> ... RL is the baseline for lightweight characteristics, but allow a few violations 15:54:34 <Curt> pgroth: which constructs will you need? unions on domain/range? 15:55:03 <Curt> tlebo: yes, there are now two unions on domain/range, and that addresses design issues, a nice option to include those 15:55:25 <Curt> ... if there are other things we want to use, each kind of construct will be considered individually 15:55:36 <pgroth> q? 15:55:40 <Curt> ... unions alone are helpful 15:55:49 <dgarijo> hadRole and hadActivity are the ones with unions 15:55:59 <Curt> pgroth: not very controversial. 15:56:24 <Curt> luc; isn't this already in the release we've approved? 15:56:44 <Curt> pgroth: yes, but this is a real change in the direction of PROV-O. Want support from the group on that. 15:57:33 <pgroth> proposal: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation 15:57:45 <tlebo> +1 15:57:49 <dgarijo> +1 15:57:49 <satya> +1 15:57:49 <jcheney> +1 15:57:49 <Curt> +1 15:57:51 <Paolo> +1 15:57:51 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 15:57:52 <TomDN> +1 15:57:53 <smiles> +1 (to the limited extent of my knowledge) 15:57:54 <stephenc> +1 15:57:56 <sandro> +1 15:57:56 <SamCoppens> +1 15:57:59 <zednik> q+ 15:58:17 <tlebo> q+ 15:58:17 <Curt> zednik: do we have guidelines on which deviations will be permitted? 15:58:23 <pgroth> ack zednik 15:58:36 <Luc> q+ 15:58:38 <Curt> tlebo: unions in domains/ranges ok for now, other changes need to be considered 15:58:52 <pgroth> ack tlebo 15:59:00 <tlebo> q- 15:59:03 <pgroth> ack Luc 15:59:03 <zednik> q- 15:59:06 <Curt> zednik: what about existential dependents (?)? 15:59:28 <Curt> luc: RL will work ok even with non-RL compliant constructs 15:59:34 <Curt> tlebo: yes, it will skip over them 15:59:56 <tlebo> the simplicity of RL is that it's based on a set of rules application. 16:00:03 <Curt> pgroth: try to stick with RL as a baseline 16:00:35 <tlebo> @zednik, go a head and raise the ISSUE so we can consider it. 16:00:41 <Curt> pgroth: make an argument for each other non-RL thing to use 16:00:55 <pgroth> q? 16:01:05 <pgroth> accepted: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation 16:01:11 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo 16:01:11 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me 16:01:12 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted 16:01:12 <Zakim> -??P12 16:01:13 <Zakim> -tlebo 16:01:13 <Zakim> -??P6 16:01:14 <SamCoppens> Thanks, Bye 16:01:14 <zednik> @tlebo, raise the issue on guidelines or on existential dependence? 16:01:15 <Zakim> -Luc 16:01:17 <Zakim> -dgarijo 16:01:19 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame 16:01:22 <Zakim> -Sandro 16:01:23 <Zakim> -jcheney 16:01:25 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has left #prov 16:01:29 <Zakim> -TomDN 16:01:31 <Zakim> -MacTed 16:01:35 <pgroth> rrsagent, set logs public 16:01:39 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes 16:01:40 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes 16:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html pgroth 16:01:45 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon 16:01:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees 16:01:47 <Zakim> -??P14 16:01:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Sandro, MacTed, +1.315.723.aaaa, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, [ISI], khalidbelhajjame, Luc, TomDN, jcheney, dgarijo, SamCoppens 16:01:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot 16:01:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye 16:01:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items 16:01:56 <Zakim> -??P1 # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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