Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
Reviews of the PAQ document are all in, and generally positive. The group felt that the editors should make minor changes and proceed with release of the document.
Daniel will produce a timetable and share it with the group next week (ACTION-79).
It was checked that progress was being made on all documents approved for release. Prov-dm, -n, -primer are staged and ready to go. Prov-constraints should be ready by Friday and prov-o by Monday, and passed on to the Webmaster. The group is invited to think about external readers who could review some/all documents. Three blogs will be prepared to announce the release of documents (ACTION-80, 81, 82). Any other volunteer welcome!
Definition of Alternate and Specialization
During the last two weeks, Jim, Tom, and James have been busy refining the definitions of Alternate and Specialization. They have reached a compromise that they feel is good, preserving the spirit of the data model (in particular, a simple definition of entity) and compatible with the semantics as currently understood. The group is invited to review these definitions. A vote will take place next week, to incorporate these definitions into the documents, or to drop these concepts from documents on recommendation track.
It was explained that following last week's call, the term 'dictionary' is used for the kind of collection defined in prov-dm/prov-o, while the term 'collection' is used for the abstract notion of collection, without specific reference to its structure. We discussed whether other forms of collections were desirable. It was felt that defining other types of collections (e.g. sets or multi-sets) would be feature creep. The group supported a resolution not to specify any other form of collection in PROV.
14:52:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-irc ←
14:52:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:52:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:52:29 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:52:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:52:30 <trackbot> Date: 26 April 2012
14:52:33 <Luc_> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:52:33 <Zakim> ok, Luc_; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc_; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes ←
14:52:47 <Luc_> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.04.26
14:53:03 <Luc_> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:53:12 <Luc_> Regrets: Paul Groth, James Cheney, Paolo Missier, Satya Sahoo, Olaf Hartig, Simon Miles
14:53:26 <Luc_> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:53:35 <Luc_> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
14:53:35 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc_
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has not yet started, Luc_ ←
14:53:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc_, MacTed, Luc, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Luc_, MacTed, Luc, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
14:58:49 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:58:52 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:58:56 <Zakim> +TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> -??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P21 ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> +TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
14:59:10 <Luc_> zakim, ??P21 is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, ??P21 is me ←
14:59:10 <Zakim> +Luc_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc_; got it ←
14:59:28 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
14:59:36 <stain> hi
Stian Soiland-Reyes: hi ←
15:00:09 <stain> I can scribe, but only for 15 minutes - would need backup scribe
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I can scribe, but only for 15 minutes - would need backup scribe ←
15:00:11 <Luc_> we don't have a scribe. Could someone volunteer?
Luc Moreau: we don't have a scribe. Could someone volunteer? ←
15:00:47 <TomDN> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Tom De Nies: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, ??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, ??P8 ←
15:00:57 <stain> Zakim: ??P8 is me
15:01:11 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
15:01:12 <stain> Zakim, ??P8 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P8 is me ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
15:01:19 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
15:01:19 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:01:23 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:01:33 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN
Tom De Nies: Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
15:01:54 <TomDN> I can do it (I hope)
Tom De Nies: I can do it (I hope) ←
15:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.720.708.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.720.708.aaaa ←
15:02:12 <stain> just type what people say, prefix with say Luc:
Stian Soiland-Reyes: just type what people say, prefix with say Luc: ←
15:02:14 <Luc_> scribe: TomDN
(Scribe set to Tom De Nies)
15:02:20 <stain> and don't be afraid to ask when something is unclear :)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: and don't be afraid to ask when something is unclear :) ←
15:02:32 <TomDN> ok, got it :)
ok, got it :) ←
15:02:34 <Zakim> +tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo ←
15:02:34 <stain> Luc_: just do like Stian says, type on the IRC
Luc Moreau: just do like Stian says, type on the IRC [ Scribe Assist by Stian Soiland-Reyes ] ←
15:02:41 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:02:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, stain, MacTed (muted), +1.720.708.aaaa, tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, stain, MacTed (muted), +1.720.708.aaaa, tlebo ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, TomDN, Curt, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc_, MacTed, Luc, stain, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zednik, tlebo, SamCoppens, TomDN, Curt, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc_, MacTed, Luc, stain, trackbot, sandro ←
15:02:47 <Luc_> topic: admin
Summary: Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
<Luc_>Summary: Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
15:03:27 <Zakim> +??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40 ←
15:03:28 <TomDN> Luc: any other business?
Luc Moreau: any other business? ←
15:03:35 <Luc_> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-19
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-19 ←
15:03:39 <GK> Oops, I'm late. Still emailing. Setting up now.
Graham Klyne: Oops, I'm late. Still emailing. Setting up now. ←
15:03:43 <Luc_> Proposed: to accept minutes of 2012-04-19 teleconference
PROPOSED: to accept minutes of 2012-04-19 teleconference ←
15:03:49 <TomDN> +1
+1 ←
15:03:50 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:03:57 <MacTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
15:04:02 <stain> 0 (not there)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: 0 (not there) ←
15:04:08 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
15:04:15 <jun> 0(not there too)
15:04:23 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:04:32 <Luc_> Resolved: to accept minutes of 2012-04-19 teleconference
RESOLVED: to accept minutes of 2012-04-19 teleconference ←
15:04:33 <GK> (not there)
Graham Klyne: (not there) ←
15:04:52 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:05:14 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
15:05:16 <Zakim> +??P43
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P43 ←
15:05:41 <TomDN> Luc: are actions 73 and 74 complete?
Luc Moreau: are actions 73 and 74 complete? ←
15:05:43 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P43 is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P43 is me ←
15:05:48 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:05:57 <dgarijo> Sorry to be late, +1 to the minutes of last week.
Daniel Garijo: Sorry to be late, +1 to the minutes of last week. ←
15:06:03 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P14 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P14 is me ←
15:06:03 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:06:07 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/73
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/73 ←
15:06:07 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/73
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/73 ←
15:06:10 <stain> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/74
Stian Soiland-Reyes: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/74 ←
15:06:13 <Zakim> - +1.720.708.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.720.708.aaaa ←
15:06:34 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:06:53 <dgarijo> yeah this are the actions I set a while ago I think.
Daniel Garijo: yeah this are the actions I set a while ago I think. ←
15:06:58 <Luc_> Topic: PAQ
Summary: Reviews of the PAQ document are all in, and generally positive. The group felt that the editors should make minor changes and proceed with release of the document.
<Luc_>Summary: Reviews of the PAQ document are all in, and generally positive. The group felt that the editors should make minor changes and proceed with release of the document.
15:06:59 <dgarijo> *these
Daniel Garijo: *these ←
15:07:17 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
15:07:18 <TomDN> Luc: paul told me all reviews for PAQ were received
Luc Moreau: paul told me all reviews for PAQ were received ←
15:07:20 <stain> Jun - yours is about http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/305
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Jun - yours is about http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/305 ←
15:07:30 <TomDN> Luc: there are 2 options
Luc Moreau: there are 2 options ←
15:07:32 <tlebo> @jun, I think that is closed.
Timothy Lebo: @jun, I think that is closed. ←
15:07:35 <GK> q+ to comment that most outstanding comments have been addressed
Graham Klyne: q+ to comment that most outstanding comments have been addressed ←
15:07:54 <TomDN> ... release now, or make changes first and postpone release
... release now, or make changes first and postpone release ←
15:07:55 <Luc_> ack GK
Luc Moreau: ack GK ←
15:07:55 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to comment that most outstanding comments have been addressed
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to comment that most outstanding comments have been addressed ←
15:08:09 <TomDN> GK: been busy today going through comments
Graham Klyne: been busy today going through comments ←
15:08:16 <tlebo> @jun, I closed your action.
Timothy Lebo: @jun, I closed your action. ←
15:08:21 <TomDN> ... most issues are resolved
... most issues are resolved ←
15:08:32 <TomDN> ... 2 remaining
... 2 remaining ←
15:08:51 <TomDN> Luc: other reviewers on the call?
Luc Moreau: other reviewers on the call? ←
15:09:05 <TomDN> SamCoppens: early release is ok for me
Sam Coppens: early release is ok for me ←
15:09:38 <TomDN> Curt: satisfied with responses to his review
Curt Tilmes: satisfied with responses to his review ←
15:09:57 <Luc_> guidance to editors: address minor issues and aim at early release
Luc Moreau: guidance to editors: address minor issues and aim at early release ←
15:10:09 <TomDN> Luc: Now we aim for early release, and address minor issues
Luc Moreau: Now we aim for early release, and address minor issues ←
15:10:10 <Luc_> topic: Dublin Core Best Practice
Summary: Daniel will produce a timetable and share it with the group next week (ACTION-79).
<Luc_> Summary: Daniel will produce a timetable and share it with the group next week (ACTION-79).
15:10:39 <TomDN> Luc: wanted to have an update on progress
Luc Moreau: wanted to have an update on progress ←
15:11:28 <jun> @tlebo, thanks! I agree
Jun Zhao: @tlebo, thanks! I agree ←
15:11:36 <TomDN> dgarijo: discussed it with Kai. Some delay due to other priorities. Can continue now
Daniel Garijo: discussed it with Kai. Some delay due to other priorities. Can continue now ←
15:11:52 <TomDN> Luc: Can timetable be suggested?
Luc Moreau: Can timetable be suggested? ←
15:12:03 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:12:12 <TomDN> dgarijo: Should be possible to make next week
Daniel Garijo: Should be possible to make next week ←
15:12:15 <Luc_> topic: Release of Documents
Summary: It was checked that progress was being made on all documents approved for release. Prov-dm, -n, -primer are staged and ready to go. Prov-constraints should be ready by Friday and prov-o by Monday, and passed on to the Webmaster. The group is invited to think about external readers who could review some/all documents. Three blogs will be prepared to announce the release of documents (ACTION-80, 81, 82). Any other volunteer welcome!
<Luc_> Summary: It was checked that progress was being made on all documents approved for release. Prov-dm, -n, -primer are staged and ready to go. Prov-constraints should be ready by Friday and prov-o by Monday, and passed on to the Webmaster. The group is invited to think about external readers who could review some/all documents. Three blogs will be prepared to announce the release of documents (ACTION-80, 81, 82). Any other volunteer welcome!
15:13:00 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:13:10 <TomDN> Luc: Prov-DM Prov-N and Primer are in mercurial and ready to be handed over
Luc Moreau: Prov-DM Prov-N and Primer are in mercurial and ready to be handed over ←
15:13:14 <sandro> (sorry I'm late; previous meeting ran late, debugging mercurial.)
Sandro Hawke: (sorry I'm late; previous meeting ran late, debugging mercurial.) ←
15:13:33 <TomDN> ... Some final changes are made to CONSTRAINTS document, should be done by friday
... Some final changes are made to CONSTRAINTS document, should be done by friday ←
15:13:54 <TomDN> ... All documents should be ready for webmaster by the end of the week.
... All documents should be ready for webmaster by the end of the week. ←
15:14:08 <TomDN> ... some issues with PROV-O.
... some issues with PROV-O. ←
15:14:19 <stain> I did not fix the validation things that seemed to be fixed by Tim's automated-thingie-my-bob
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I did not fix the validation things that seemed to be caused by Tim's automated-thingie-my-bob ←
15:14:24 <stain> s/fixed/caused/
15:14:40 <TomDN> tlebo: Should be possible to get document ready by deadline on Monday
Timothy Lebo: Should be possible to get document ready by deadline on Monday ←
15:15:17 <TomDN> Luc: reviewers were happy with release as such. No blocking issues
Luc Moreau: reviewers were happy with release as such. No blocking issues ←
15:15:44 <TomDN> tlebo: We are making the document ready validation-wise
Timothy Lebo: We are making the document ready validation-wise ←
15:15:55 <TomDN> Luc: if necessary, the webmaster can help with this as well
Luc Moreau: if necessary, the webmaster can help with this as well ←
15:16:13 <TomDN> tlebo: will look into it this afternoon.
Timothy Lebo: will look into it this afternoon. ←
15:16:27 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
15:16:52 <TomDN> Luc: reason for synchronized release was to get external feedback. Would be good to identify the people we want to approach for this.
Luc Moreau: reason for synchronized release was to get external feedback. Would be good to identify the people we want to approach for this. ←
15:18:38 <Curt> Hook Hua, NASA/JPL will be a good reviewer for the whole package
Curt Tilmes: Hook Hua, NASA/JPL will be a good reviewer for the whole package ←
15:19:13 <TomDN> Luc: invites everyone to think about potential reviewers.
Luc Moreau: invites everyone to think about potential reviewers. ←
15:19:20 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:19:39 <TomDN> ... not necessary for them to review all documents, some of them is also ok
... not necessary for them to review all documents, some of them is also ok ←
15:19:44 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:19:47 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:20:08 <Luc_> ack kh
Luc Moreau: ack kh ←
15:20:25 <TomDN> Luc: Anyone here who would like to write a blog about changes since last release?
Luc Moreau: Anyone here who would like to write a blog about changes since last release? ←
15:20:32 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:20:43 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P8 (53%), khalidbelhajjame (95%)
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P8 (53%), khalidbelhajjame (95%) ←
15:21:08 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ??p8
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute ??p8 ←
15:21:08 <Zakim> ??P8 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: ??P8 should now be muted ←
15:21:11 <TomDN> sorry, I didnt get that answer due to noise
sorry, I didnt get that answer due to noise ←
15:21:23 <MacTed> sorry, ??p8 ... the echo was just too much
Ted Thibodeau: sorry, ??p8 ... the echo was just too much ←
15:21:35 <TomDN> kh: workshop is end of may, 28th of may
Khalid Belhajjame: workshop is end of may, 28th of may ←
15:21:59 <stain2> Zakim, who is on the call?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:21:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, MacTed (muted), tlebo, ??P40, dgarijo, ??P29, khalidbelhajjame, ??P3, ??P24, Sandro, ??P10, ??P8 (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, TomDN, MacTed (muted), tlebo, ??P40, dgarijo, ??P29, khalidbelhajjame, ??P3, ??P24, Sandro, ??P10, ??P8 (muted) ←
15:22:01 <Zakim> TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN has TomDN, SamCoppens ←
15:22:09 <stain2> I can do a blog post
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I can do a blog post ←
15:23:11 <TomDN> Jun: If necessary, I can write something about Prov-O
Jun Zhao: If necessary, I can write something about Prov-O ←
15:24:00 <jun> @stain2, that will be good to work together on the ontology post
Jun Zhao: @stain2, that will be good to work together on the ontology post ←
15:24:08 <TomDN> stain2: can work together with Jun on this
Stian Soiland-Reyes: can work together with Jun on this ←
15:24:26 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:24:41 <TomDN> Luc: specifications will be out next thursday, so time for the blog should be shortly after that
Luc Moreau: specifications will be out next thursday, so time for the blog should be shortly after that ←
15:24:45 <Luc_> topic: Definition of Alternate and Specialization
Summary: During the last two weeks, Jim, Tom, and James have been busy refining the definitions of Alternate and Specialization. They have reached a compromise that they feel is good, preserving the spirit of the data model (in particular, a simple definition of entity) and compatible with the semantics as currently understood. The group is invited to review these definitions. A vote will take place next week, to incorporate these definitions into the documents, or to drop these concepts from documents on recommendation track.
<Luc_> Summary: During the last two weeks, Jim, Tom, and James have been busy refining the definitions of Alternate and Specialization. They have reached a compromise that they feel is good, preserving the spirit of the data model (in particular, a simple definition of entity) and compatible with the semantics as currently understood. The group is invited to review these definitions. A vote will take place next week, to incorporate these definitions into the documents, or to drop these concepts from documents on recommendation track.
15:25:12 <TomDN> Luc: there were many discussions about alt/spec.
Luc Moreau: there were many discussions about alt/spec. ←
15:25:31 <TomDN> ... Solution should have support of the whole WG.
... Solution should have support of the whole WG. ←
15:26:12 <TomDN> ... If no consensus can be had, we follow the agreed procedure, and drop them from specification, and add them as notes
... If no consensus can be had, we follow the agreed procedure, and drop them from specification, and add them as notes ←
15:26:33 <Luc_> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/SpecializationAlternateDefinitions#Definitions_13_.28refinement_of_12.29
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/SpecializationAlternateDefinitions#Definitions_13_.28refinement_of_12.29 ←
15:26:37 <Zakim> -??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P10 ←
15:26:47 <TomDN> ... TomDN, Jim, james and chairs discussed this via email/wiki
... TomDN, Jim, james and chairs discussed this via email/wiki ←
15:27:36 <TomDN> ... Definition 13 is something they are happy with, and ask for support from the group. Vote will be next week
... Definition 13 is something they are happy with, and ask for support from the group. Vote will be next week ←
15:28:12 <TomDN> ... hopefully this will close the issue. If not, we will discuss more, but they will be dropped from the documents and added as notes.
... hopefully this will close the issue. If not, we will discuss more, but they will be dropped from the documents and added as notes. ←
15:28:33 <TomDN> JimMcCusker: We went through a number of iterations
James McCusker: We went through a number of iterations ←
15:28:47 <TomDN> ... trying to define clearly what an entity is
... trying to define clearly what an entity is ←
15:29:12 <TomDN> ... we agreed that an entity is something we use to talk about things in a particular way.
... we agreed that an entity is something we use to talk about things in a particular way. ←
15:29:13 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
15:29:28 <TomDN> ... explains definitions.
... explains definitions. ←
15:29:39 <stain> Zakim, ??P2 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P2 is me ←
15:29:39 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
15:29:51 <stain> Zakim, ??P2 is stain
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P2 is stain ←
15:29:51 <Zakim> I already had ??P2 as stain, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P2 as stain, stain ←
15:30:02 <TomDN> ... We leave things open for alternates to be very distinct ways of looking at the same thing.
... We leave things open for alternates to be very distinct ways of looking at the same thing. ←
15:31:13 <TomDN> ... Special attention paid to lifetime of entities.
... Special attention paid to lifetime of entities. ←
15:31:41 <GK> exists general => exists specialization? Other way round?
Graham Klyne: exists general => exists specialization? Other way round? ←
15:32:16 <GK> AHh.. I get it...
Graham Klyne: AHh.. I get it... ←
15:33:56 <JimMcCusker> An entity is a physical, digital, conceptual, or other kind of thing with some fixed aspects. Entities may be real or imaginary. (same as above)
James McCusker: An entity is a physical, digital, conceptual, or other kind of thing with some fixed aspects. Entities may be real or imaginary. (same as above) ←
15:34:04 <JimMcCusker> Two alternate entities present aspects of the same thing. These aspects may be the same or different, and the alternate entities may or may not overlap in time. (changed has to presents; rearranged & added time)
James McCusker: Two alternate entities present aspects of the same thing. These aspects may be the same or different, and the alternate entities may or may not overlap in time. (changed has to presents; rearranged & added time) ←
15:34:12 <JimMcCusker> An entity that is a specialization of another entity shares all aspects of the latter, and additionally presents more specific aspects of the same thing as the latter. In particular, the lifetime of the specialized entity contains that of any specialization. (changed has to presents; rearranged & added time)
James McCusker: An entity that is a specialization of another entity shares all aspects of the latter, and additionally presents more specific aspects of the same thing as the latter. In particular, the lifetime of the specialized entity contains that of any specialization. (changed has to presents; rearranged & added time) ←
15:34:44 <TomDN> TomDN: Pros of the definitions are: they avoid discussion about reflexivity/transitivity like we had before. Also they require minimal changes to existing documents
Tom De Nies: Pros of the definitions are: they avoid discussion about reflexivity/transitivity like we had before. Also they require minimal changes to existing documents ←
15:34:56 <TomDN> Luc: They are a good compromise.
Luc Moreau: They are a good compromise. ←
15:34:59 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:35:07 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:35:22 <stain> I wA
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I wA ←
15:35:54 <TomDN> kh: main difference is in definition is in alternateOf. More specifically, the overlapping/non-overlapping intervals.
Khalid Belhajjame: main difference is in definition is in alternateOf. More specifically, the overlapping/non-overlapping intervals. ←
15:36:02 <Curt> I like emphasis on "aspects". Key to understanding will be good examples...
Curt Tilmes: I like emphasis on "aspects". Key to understanding will be good examples... ←
15:36:14 <TomDN> ... Concerns that "aspects" will be confusing.
... Concerns that "aspects" will be confusing. ←
15:36:25 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:28 <Luc_> ack kh
Luc Moreau: ack kh ←
15:36:44 <TomDN> JimMcCusker: We settled on aspects because it's the most efficient way to talk about everything an entity can be
James McCusker: We settled on aspects because it's the most efficient way to talk about everything an entity can be ←
15:36:55 <stain> Wander slightly what is the meaning of alternate , first line says entity is a thing, second that entity a aspect
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Wander slightly what is the meaning of alternate , first line says entity is a thing, second that entity a aspect ←
15:37:04 <TomDN> ... It's not an exclusive view, but also not a fixed set of attributes
... It's not an exclusive view, but also not a fixed set of attributes ←
15:38:01 <TomDN> ... the meaning is that of the natural language meaning of aspects. No special definition required.
... the meaning is that of the natural language meaning of aspects. No special definition required. ←
15:38:21 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:38:46 <TomDN> kh: Why was it necessary to relax the definition of alternate to non-overlapping intervals.
Khalid Belhajjame: Why was it necessary to relax the definition of alternate to non-overlapping intervals. ←
15:39:15 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:39:19 <TomDN> Luc: this is to accomodate examples like the "customer in chair at 6pm or 7pm" one
Luc Moreau: this is to accomodate examples like the "customer in chair at 6pm or 7pm" one ←
15:39:45 <TomDN> Luc: Vote will be next week
Luc Moreau: Vote will be next week ←
15:39:52 <Luc_> topic: Collections
Summary: It was explained that following last week's call, the term 'dictionary' is used for the kind of collection defined in prov-dm/prov-o, while the term 'collection' is used for the abstract notion of collection, without specific reference to its structure. We discussed whether other forms of collections were desirable. It was felt that defining other types of collections (e.g. sets or multi-sets) would be feature creep. The group supported a resolution not to specify any other form of collection in PROV.
<Luc_> Summary: It was explained that following last week's call, the term 'dictionary' is used for the kind of collection defined in prov-dm/prov-o, while the term 'collection' is used for the abstract notion of collection, without specific reference to its structure. We discussed whether other forms of collections were desirable. It was felt that defining other types of collections (e.g. sets or multi-sets) would be feature creep. The group supported a resolution not to specify any other form of collection in PROV.
15:40:37 <TomDN> Luc: Update on current status: Collections are now called Dictionaries in the DM
Luc Moreau: Update on current status: Collections are now called Dictionaries in the DM ←
15:40:51 <khalidbelhajjame> @Luc, yes
Khalid Belhajjame: @Luc, yes ←
15:41:06 <TomDN> ... Changes are made to prov-o document as well.
... Changes are made to prov-o document as well. ←
15:41:22 <stain> There might be a few Collections hanging about still :)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: There might be a few Collections hanging about still :) ←
15:41:28 <JimMcCusker> I need to drop off, thanks all!
James McCusker: I need to drop off, thanks all! ←
15:41:29 <TomDN> Jim: Acknowledges that these changes are being made today
Timothy Lebo: Acknowledges that these changes are being made today ←
15:41:46 <tlebo> ( http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#description-collections still needs to be updated to reflect the name change)
Timothy Lebo: ( http://aquarius.tw.rpi.edu/prov-wg/prov-o#description-collections still needs to be updated to reflect the name change) ←
15:41:53 <TomDN> Luc: Do we want another, concrete kind of collection in the model?
Luc Moreau: Do we want another, concrete kind of collection in the model? ←
15:41:55 <JimMcCusker> s/Jim/Tim
15:42:08 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:42:12 <khalidbelhajjame> +q
Khalid Belhajjame: +q ←
15:42:18 <Zakim> -??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P3 ←
15:42:38 <TomDN> kh: One way to try to answer this is to look what kind of provenance is required.
Khalid Belhajjame: One way to try to answer this is to look what kind of provenance is required. ←
15:42:48 <TomDN> ... do we need order, duplicates, ... ?
... do we need order, duplicates, ... ? ←
15:43:24 <TomDN> kh: Dictionary as it is now is very general. Can be mapped to most possible collections when required
Khalid Belhajjame: Dictionary as it is now is very general. Can be mapped to most possible collections when required ←
15:43:41 <TomDN> ... So most cases will be covered already.
... So most cases will be covered already. ←
15:43:53 <tlebo> q+ to say that "Collections" have always been defined as "Dictionaries", so adding anything other than a Dictionary is feature creep. Leave Collections as the hallow superclass.
Timothy Lebo: q+ to say that "Collections" have always been defined as "Dictionaries", so adding anything other than a Dictionary is feature creep. Leave Collections as the hallow superclass. ←
15:44:00 <Luc_> ack kha
Luc Moreau: ack kha ←
15:44:07 <TomDN> ... As they are now, dictionaries are very expressive, which is great.
... As they are now, dictionaries are very expressive, which is great. ←
15:44:37 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
15:44:57 <TomDN> tlebo: Collections actually always were Dictionaries, except for the name.
Timothy Lebo: Collections actually always were Dictionaries, except for the name. ←
15:45:38 <TomDN> ... adding more features would be feature-kreeped
... adding more features would be feature-creep ←
15:45:48 <TomDN> (spelling of that last one? )
(spelling of that last one? ) ←
15:45:56 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:46:05 <GK> (I'm staying silent for now, as my earlier email seems to have struck a nerve and I'm considering my response.)
Graham Klyne: (I'm staying silent for now, as my earlier email seems to have struck a nerve and I'm considering my response.) ←
15:46:06 <stain> Creep
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Creep ←
15:46:17 <TomDN> Jun: agrees, adding more would make the model look more like a datastructure
Jun Zhao: agrees, adding more would make the model look more like a datastructure ←
15:46:41 <TomDN> s/kreeped/creep
15:47:04 <TomDN> GK: Still not completely convinced that we need Collections. Simpler is better.
Graham Klyne: Still not completely convinced that we need Collections. Simpler is better. ←
15:47:05 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:47:05 <tlebo> @gk, you mean Dictionaries?
Timothy Lebo: @gk, you mean Dictionaries? ←
15:47:33 <tlebo> @gk @luc thx
Timothy Lebo: @gk @luc thx ←
15:47:44 <GK> (I mean any kind of collection)
Graham Klyne: (I mean any kind of collection) ←
15:47:50 <Luc_> Proposed: not to specify any other form of collection in PROV
PROPOSED: not to specify any other form of collection in PROV ←
15:47:58 <TomDN> GK: Any kind of collection/dictionary
Graham Klyne: Any kind of collection/dictionary ←
15:48:13 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:48:16 <jun> yes
15:48:20 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
15:48:22 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:48:24 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
15:48:26 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 (except if we find a case that justifies coming up with another kind of collections)
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 (except if we find a case that justifies coming up with another kind of collections) ←
15:48:29 <TomDN> +1
+1 ←
15:48:35 <MacTed> +0
Ted Thibodeau: +0 ←
15:48:38 <sandro> +0
Sandro Hawke: +0 ←
15:48:53 <GK> (abstain)
Graham Klyne: (abstain) ←
15:49:10 <Luc_> ACCEPTED: not to specify any other form of collection in PROV
RESOLVED: not to specify any other form of collection in PROV ←
15:49:24 <Curt> (I'm fine with just dictionary, but I do think there is some merit for 'set'..)
Curt Tilmes: (I'm fine with just dictionary, but I do think there is some merit for 'set'..) ←
15:49:36 <Luc_> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:49:48 <tlebo> bye!
Timothy Lebo: bye! ←
15:49:51 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
15:49:52 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
15:49:53 <Zakim> -??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P40 ←
15:49:54 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
15:49:55 <TomDN> Luc: If evidence should present itself to add more kind of collections, issue could be reopened. But for now, closed
Luc Moreau: If evidence should present itself to add more kind of collections, issue could be reopened. But for now, closed ←
15:49:56 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
15:50:00 <zednik> bye
Stephan Zednik: bye ←
15:50:01 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
15:50:03 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:50:04 <stain> Set is done easily with URI as keys
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Set is done easily with URI as keys ←
15:50:07 <Zakim> -??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P24 ←
15:50:09 <Zakim> -??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←
15:50:10 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
15:50:13 <TomDN> bye
bye ←
15:50:18 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
15:50:35 <Luc_> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
15:50:46 <Luc_> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:50:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-minutes.html Luc_
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-minutes.html Luc_ ←
15:50:55 <Luc_> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
15:50:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
15:50:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TomDN, Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, stain, MacTed, SamCoppens, +1.720.708.aaaa, tlebo, khalidbelhajjame, dgarijo, Sandro, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been TomDN, Curt_Tilmes, Luc_, stain, MacTed, SamCoppens, +1.720.708.aaaa, tlebo, khalidbelhajjame, dgarijo, Sandro, stain ←
15:51:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
15:51:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/26-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
15:51:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
15:51:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
15:51:05 <Zakim> -Luc_
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc_ ←
Formatted by CommonScribe
This revision (#4) generated 2012-04-26 19:55:12 UTC by 'lmoreau', comments: 'wrote summaries'