Chatlog 2013-03-08

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00:02:32 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
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09:52:33 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #gld
09:52:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
09:58:15 <fadmaa> fadmaa has joined #gld
09:58:34 <PhilA2> Hi fadmaa
09:58:43 <fadmaa> hello PhilA2
09:58:48 <PhilA2> Are you at the EuroGI event in Dublin?
09:59:00 <fadmaa> no... couldn't ake it
09:59:06 <fadmaa> are you?
09:59:06 <PhilA> I was there yesterday
09:59:10 <PhilA> Not today
09:59:23 <PhilA> I was trying to work out how you could be on this call from there!
09:59:34 <PhilA> I'm about to ask zakim for a number
09:59:44 <PhilA> How many people are you expecting?
09:59:50 <PhilA> (it matters, sorry)
09:59:53 <fadmaa> 5 I believe
09:59:57 <PhilA> OK
10:00:03 <PhilA> zakim, room for 7?
10:00:04 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; conference Team_(gld)10:00Z scheduled with code 26632 (CONF2) for 60 minutes until 1100Z
10:00:30 <PhilA> PhilA has changed the topic to: DCAT call, zakim code is CONF2 26632
10:01:07 <martin_> martin_ has joined #gld
10:01:21 <Zakim> Team_(gld)10:00Z has now started
10:01:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
10:01:30 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller is me
10:01:30 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
10:01:31 <Zakim> +??P0
10:01:40 <atemezin> atemezin has joined #gld
10:01:47 <martin_> zakim, ??p0 is me
10:01:47 <Zakim> +martin_; got it
10:01:54 <Zakim> + +35386100aaaa
10:01:56 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
10:02:30 <fadmaa> can you hear me?
10:02:36 <PhilA> no
10:02:43 <fadmaa> I'll call in again
10:02:46 <Zakim> - +35386100aaaa
10:02:58 <PhilA> zakim, code?
10:02:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
10:03:32 <Zakim> + +35386100aabb
10:03:41 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is fadmaa
10:03:41 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it
10:03:47 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
10:03:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see PhilA, martin_, fadmaa
10:03:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see Makx, atemezin, martin_, fadmaa, Zakim, PhilA, cygri, danbri, RRSAgent, sandro, trackbot
10:03:57 <Zakim> +atemezin
10:04:24 <Zakim> + +2134422aacc
10:04:31 <Makx> zakim, aacc is me
10:04:31 <Zakim> +Makx; got it
10:05:24 <Zakim> +??P5
10:05:29 <cygri> zakim, ??P5 is me
10:05:29 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
10:05:38 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
10:05:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see PhilA, martin_, fadmaa, atemezin, Makx, cygri
10:05:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see Makx, atemezin, martin_, fadmaa, Zakim, PhilA, cygri, danbri, RRSAgent, sandro, trackbot
10:06:26 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
10:06:42 <PhilA> fadmaa: want to go through the issues, most have proposals
10:06:53 <Makx> I can barely hear fadi
10:06:59 <fadmaa> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/AccessURLRedesign
10:07:03 <PhilA> very hard to hear you fadmaa
10:07:59 <fadmaa> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Dcat_examples
10:08:21 <Makx> +q
10:08:37 <Makx> -q
10:08:59 <cygri> q+
10:09:33 <martin_> q+
10:10:23 <PhilA> Makx: We're working with the European Publications Office to create an application profile for DCAT so that data sets can be fund by a central service
10:10:44 <PhilA> ... my priority is to get DCAT finalised
10:10:55 <PhilA> Makx: I'm happy with the current proposal
10:11:04 <PhilA> ... based on ADMS approach to the issue
10:11:12 <PhilA> cygri: I have a question
10:11:35 <PhilA> cygri: Do we have a proposed spec text? Or do we have to go by the skets of the design in withe wiki page
10:12:01 <PhilA> fadmaa: I wasn't sure if I could edit the text before the meeting
10:13:52 <PhilA> cygri: Main simplification is that it does away with the sub classes
10:14:15 <Zakim> -fadmaa
10:14:40 <Makx> +q
10:14:58 <martin_> ack cygri
10:15:17 <PhilA> ... but we need to make a distinction between different access methods
10:15:21 <PhilA> ack cygri
10:15:26 <PhilA> ack Mart
10:16:02 <PhilA> martin_: This matches our experience - all in line with this proposal. We haven't had landing page and downloadURL but would be compatible
10:16:05 <PhilA> ack Makx
10:16:25 <PhilA> Makx: A question - isee that downloadURL is a sub prop of accessURL - why?
10:16:33 <PhilA> cygri: Because download is a form of access
10:16:51 <PhilA> Makx: But how would it be used (by someone that doesn't know the difference?
10:17:17 <PhilA> cygri: accessURL could be anything - you don't know for sure what it points to. Web page, form, whatever
10:17:20 <fadmaa> fadmaa has joined #gld
10:17:31 <PhilA> ... if you know it goes straight to a download then you can use downloadURL
10:17:43 <PhilA> ... the distinction is not made in some catalogues
10:17:55 <fadmaa> sorry what was the code?
10:18:01 <PhilA> zakim, code?
10:18:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 26632 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA
10:18:11 <Zakim> + +3539149aadd
10:18:15 <PhilA> Makx: Yes, but why is download a sub prop of access
10:18:20 <PhilA> zakim, aadd is fadmaa
10:18:20 <Zakim> +fadmaa; got it
10:18:40 <PhilA> Makx: So if I doon't know the difference then I should treat downloadURL as accessURL?
10:18:46 <atemezin> q+
10:18:47 <Zakim> -atemezin
10:18:51 <PhilA> Makx: OKm got it
10:19:03 <PhilA> ack atemezin
10:19:35 <Makx> +1 distribution proposal
10:19:43 <PhilA> PROPOSAL: ACCEPT http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/AccessURLRedesign
10:19:46 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aaee
10:19:52 <martin_> +1
10:19:55 <fadmaa> +1
10:20:09 <PhilA> zakim, aaee is atemezin
10:20:09 <Zakim> +atemezin; got it
10:20:32 <PhilA> atemezin: To be consistent, should accessURL be webpageURL?
10:20:36 <Zakim> -cygri
10:20:48 <PhilA> cygri: downloadURL and accessURL might not be a web page
10:21:13 <Makx> shouldn't landingPage be a URI rather than URL?
10:21:40 <cygri> +1
10:21:44 <PhilA> fadmaa: We were thinking of using foaf:page but we're more specific - a page where you can get access to the pag
10:22:04 <Zakim> +??P5
10:22:10 <cygri> zakim, ??P5 is me
10:22:10 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
10:22:58 <atemezin> @cygri: my previous question was about landingPage actually
10:23:23 <atemezin> changing landingPage to webPageURL
10:23:29 <PhilA> hasChannel
10:23:31 <cygri> q+
10:23:51 <PhilA> cygri: landingPage is consistent with foaf
10:24:05 <PhilA> cygri: we can't call accessURL and downloadURL pages
10:24:16 <PhilA> cygri: So for consistency I think we should stick to what we have
10:24:23 <PhilA> re proposal +1
10:24:30 <atemezin> +1
10:24:32 <Makx> +1
10:24:37 <martin_> +1
10:24:40 <PhilA> RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Data_Catalog_Vocabulary/AccessURLRedesign is accepted
10:25:13 <PhilA> atemezin: Should we define landingPage as a sub prop of foaf:page
10:25:39 <cygri> "The page property relates a thing to a document about that thing."
10:26:05 <fadmaa> list of issues http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/products/2
10:26:35 <PhilA> fadmaa: 8 and 9 are now covered
10:26:55 <PhilA> ... ISSUE-43 was around renaming (from Rufus)
10:27:04 <Makx> -1
10:27:06 <cygri> PROPOSAL: stick to dcat:Distribution
10:27:10 <Makx> +1
10:27:12 <fadmaa> +1
10:27:13 <PhilA> ... my suggestion is to ask people whether they prefer Distribution or resource?
10:27:19 <martin_> +1 (Distribution)
10:27:25 <Makx> Distribution
10:27:32 <atemezin> +1 (Distribution)
10:27:36 <PhilA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Stick to dcat:Distribution?
10:27:39 <PhilA> +1
10:27:40 <Makx> +1
10:27:43 <PhilA> RESOLUTION: Stick to dcat:Distribution?
10:27:51 <PhilA> close ISSUE-43
10:27:51 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-43 rename dcat:Distribution to Resource.
10:28:04 <cygri> ISSUE-10?
10:28:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 -- Refine dcat:granularity to dcat:spatialGranularity and dcat:temporalGranularity -- pending review
10:28:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/10
10:28:09 <PhilA> fadmaa: ISSUE-10
10:28:14 <PhilA> ISSUE-10?
10:28:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 -- Refine dcat:granularity to dcat:spatialGranularity and dcat:temporalGranularity -- pending review
10:28:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/10
10:28:35 <PhilA> fadmaa: proposal is to drop granularity - possibly come back to it later -DCAT2
10:29:38 <cygri> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-10 by dropping dcat:granularity, as it is underspecified
10:29:50 <fadmaa> q?
10:29:53 <Makx> +1 to move to future
10:29:56 <cygri> q-
10:30:03 <PhilA> PhilA: +1 to dropping it - but it may well come back as a separate vocab
10:30:29 <PhilA> fadmaa: The feeling is that granularity is useful, but we don't have enough data to put it in DCAT today
10:30:48 <PhilA> fadmaa: It's useful buyt we can't reocmmend a proper use of it today
10:31:12 <PhilA> RESOLVED: Drop dcat:granularity
10:31:16 <PhilA> ISSUE-10 close
10:31:21 <PhilA> close ISSUE-10
10:31:21 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-10 Refine dcat:granularity to dcat:spatialGranularity and dcat:temporalGranularity.
10:31:23 <fadmaa> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/12
10:31:46 <cygri> ISSUE-12?
10:31:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- What values to use to describe formats of dcat:Distribution? -- pending review
10:31:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/12
10:31:47 <PhilA> ISSUE-12?
10:31:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- What values to use to describe formats of dcat:Distribution? -- pending review
10:31:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/12
10:32:42 <PhilA> proposal is to have a new prop of media type - value is a one defined by IANA
10:33:02 <PhilA> if it doesn't exist... (shape files etc.) then use dcformat with any value
10:33:15 <martin_> Resolved in http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-10-25#resolution_3 ??
10:34:29 <PhilA> ISSUE-12 was already closed, sorry, shouldn't have come up today
10:34:35 <PhilA> close ISSUE-12
10:34:36 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-12 What values to use to describe formats of dcat:Distribution?.
10:34:52 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
10:34:59 <fadmaa> issue-13 ?
10:34:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- attach specific properties to dcat:Distribution and not to dcat:Dataset -- pending review
10:34:59 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/13
10:35:01 <PhilA> ISSUE-13?
10:35:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- attach specific properties to dcat:Distribution and not to dcat:Dataset -- pending review
10:35:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/13
10:35:29 <PhilA> fadmaa: We got the feedback we needed. So I think we're OK on that...
10:35:51 <PhilA> fadmaa: Had feedback from Makx, it's in line with ADMS, title, description, modified and issued
10:36:03 <atemezin> +1
10:36:03 <Makx> still +1
10:36:16 <cygri> PROPOSAL: Recommend that title, description, modified, issued can also be used on distributions, not just datasets
10:36:19 <cygri> +1
10:36:20 <fadmaa> +1
10:36:22 <Makx> +1
10:36:44 <Makx> jsut adding
10:36:51 <martin_> +1
10:36:53 <PhilA> martin_: Do we add those to distribution and keep them from dataset?
10:36:59 <PhilA> fadmaa: Both - i.e. keep all of them on both
10:37:04 <atemezin> s/jsut/just
10:37:06 <fadmaa> issue-53 ?
10:37:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-53 -- Move the license property from dataset to distribution -- pending review
10:37:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/53
10:37:07 <PhilA> RESOLVED: Recommend that title, description, modified, issued can also be used on distributions, not just datasets
10:37:14 <PhilA> CLOSE issue-13
10:37:14 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-13 attach specific properties to dcat:Distribution and not to dcat:Dataset.
10:37:29 <Zakim> -cygri
10:37:41 <Zakim> +??P5
10:37:45 <PhilA> fadmaa: We currently have licence on datasets but feedback said it could be different per distribution
10:37:47 <cygri> zakim, ??P5 is me
10:37:47 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
10:37:49 <Makx> ADMS has licence for Distribution not for Asset/DataSet
10:37:56 <PhilA> fadmaa: I got +1 from Makx
10:38:12 <PhilA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Move dcterms:license from Dataset to Distribution
10:38:16 <Makx> +1
10:38:17 <cygri> +1
10:38:17 <PhilA> +1
10:38:22 <fadmaa> +1
10:38:23 <martin_> +1
10:38:32 <PhilA> RESOLUTION: Move dcterms:license from Dataset to Distribution and Close ISSUE-13
10:38:35 <fadmaa> issue-52 ?
10:38:35 <trackbot> ISSUE-52 -- Drop dc:reference from Dcat -- pending review
10:38:35 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/52
10:38:44 <PhilA> Close ISSUE-13
10:38:44 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-13 attach specific properties to dcat:Distribution and not to dcat:Dataset.
10:38:54 <Makx> in fact dc:refernce does not exist
10:39:19 <Makx> http://dublincore.org/documents/dcmi-terms/#terms-references
10:39:31 <PhilA> fadmaa: dcterms:reference is too generic to be useful. So we can just leave it out of the spec. They can still use it of course
10:39:46 <cygri> it's references, not reference :-)
10:39:48 <Makx> so it's dc:references with s at the end
10:40:04 <Makx> OK to drop
10:40:17 <PhilA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Drop dcterms:references from the spec 9which doesn't make it illegal to use) and close ISSUE-13
10:40:21 <Makx> +1
10:40:23 <PhilA> s/9/(/
10:40:23 <cygri> +1
10:40:26 <martin_> +1
10:40:26 <PhilA> +1
10:40:27 <atemezin> +1
10:40:31 <PhilA> RESOLUTION: Drop dcterms:references from the spec 9which doesn't make it illegal to use) and close ISSUE-13
10:40:39 <PhilA> close ISSUE-13
10:40:39 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-13 attach specific properties to dcat:Distribution and not to dcat:Dataset.
10:40:51 <PhilA> ISSUE-11?
10:40:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- Is dcat:CatalogRecord related to Named Graphs? -- open
10:40:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/11
10:40:57 <PhilA> ISSUE-14?
10:40:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 -- add dcat:permanentIdentifier property -- open
10:40:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/14
10:41:01 <fadmaa> issue-11 ?
10:41:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- Is dcat:CatalogRecord related to Named Graphs? -- open
10:41:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/11
10:41:01 <PhilA> ISSUE-54?
10:41:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-54 -- Relationship of DCAT and VoID -- raised
10:41:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/54
10:41:11 <PhilA> cygri: I've been looking at these this morning
10:41:14 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/mid/5E2B5125-A4F7-4D3D-871E-0FD05EA9B7BD@cyganiak.de
10:41:47 <PhilA> cygri: issue-11 there probably is some sort of relationship
10:42:25 <cygri> In web-based catalogs that provide an individual page for each dataset, the URL of that page can be used as the IRI of the catalog record if it is a permalink. This is specially appropriate if the page provides access to an RDF description of the dataset via content negotiation [[RFC2616]], embedded RDFa markup, or similar mechanisms.
10:42:26 <cygri> If a catalog is represented as an RDF Dataset [[RDF11-Concepts]] with named graphs, then it is appropriate to place the description of each dataset (consisting of all RDF triples that mention the dcat:Dataset, dcat:CatalogRecord, and any of its dcat:Distributions) into a separate named graph. The name of that graph should be the IRI of the catalog record.
10:43:38 <PhilA> cygri: That tries to explain how the differnet identifiers canplay together
10:43:46 <Makx> +q
10:43:49 <fadmaa> +1
10:43:53 <PhilA> ack Makx
10:44:14 <PhilA> Makx: This sounds a little like an OAI ?? has to be. Are people familiar with that?
10:44:25 <PhilA> cygri: Yes, it does sound like that
10:44:54 <PhilA> Makx: It makes it explicit that different things can be related. It doesn't use the URI of one of the elements - it creates a new URI for the collection
10:45:14 <PhilA> cygri: We're saying that if you already have a Web page that describes the dataset, then you can just use that
10:45:38 <Makx> http://www.openarchives.org/ore/
10:45:41 <cygri> current text:
10:45:42 <cygri> In web-based catalogs, the URL of the catalog page should be used as URI for the catalog record if it is a permalink.
10:45:43 <cygri> If named graphs are used, all RDF triples describing the catalog record, the dataset, and its distributions, should go into a graph named with the catalog record's URI.
10:46:10 <PhilA> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: resolve ISSUE-11 by replacing the current text with the text proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Mar/0073.html
10:46:27 <Makx> +q
10:46:37 <PhilA> ack Makx
10:46:54 <PhilA> Makx: I believe that named graphs is still not resolved?
10:47:23 <PhilA> cygri: It's been in SPARQL for about 5 years and will be in RDF 1.1 as part of the Core. It's going to be a Last Call pretty soon. The named graph part is stable
10:47:44 <PhilA> PhilA: Does this create a dependency on RDF 1.1?
10:48:26 <PhilA> cygri: It's in line with SPARQL
10:48:31 <PhilA> ... we could point to that
10:49:16 <PhilA> ... or make it informative
10:50:35 <PhilA> PhilA: You can refer to SPARQL and 'informatively' to RDF 1.1
10:50:37 <Makx> fine with me
10:50:46 <PhilA> cygri: We could refer to SPARQL now and maybe change the reference in future
10:51:08 <cygri> PROPOSAL: resolve ISSUE-11 by replacing the current text with the text proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Mar/0073.html but refer to SPARQL instead of RDF 1.1 for RDF Dataset and Named Graphs
10:51:14 <cygri> +1
10:51:18 <martin_> +1
10:51:20 <PhilA> +1
10:51:25 <atemezin> +1
10:51:26 <fadmaa> +1
10:51:37 <PhilA> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-11 by replacing the current text with the text proposed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-gld-wg/2013Mar/0073.html but refer to SPARQL instead of RDF 1.1 for RDF Dataset and Named Graphs
10:51:51 <cygri> ISSUE-14?
10:51:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 -- add dcat:permanentIdentifier property -- open
10:51:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/track/issues/14
10:52:51 <PhilA> cygri: This was raised when we discussed DCAT with people working on federated catalogues - national federation of local and so on
10:53:08 <Zakim> -cygri
10:53:11 <PhilA> ... you might get the same record from 2 different places. You need a way to say they're the same
10:53:26 <Makx> +q
10:53:50 <fadmaa> The dcat:permanentIdentifier property conveys a permanent, globally unique identifier for a dataset. When a DCAT description of a dataset is relocated, syndicated, or republished, the contents of the dcat:permanentIdentifier property MUST NOT change. In other words, the identifier pertains to any occurrence of this same dataset in any catalog, even where dataset descriptions may be exchanged between catalogs and the dataset IRI may change in the process.  The value
10:53:53 <PhilA> ack Makx
10:55:00 <Zakim> +??P5
10:55:06 <cygri> zakim, ??P5 is me
10:55:06 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
10:55:41 <PhilA> Makx: We had a situation in Europeana - you;re getting into the issue of whether 2 things re the same that have different URIs
10:55:48 <PhilA> ... this doesn't do what you were just saying
10:56:15 <PhilA> cygri: If you have a network of different catalogues, you end up with 2 copies of the same record
10:56:37 <PhilA> cygri: different catalogues might describe the same thing without any knowledge of the other
10:56:39 <PhilA> q+
10:57:21 <PhilA> Makx: So your proposal is about the first catalogue record
10:57:36 <PhilA> Makx: You get into the issue where you need to compare records
10:57:48 <PhilA> cygri: Yes, but it's helpful if you know it's the same record, or supposed to be
10:58:36 <PhilA> Makx: Who assigns that permanent ID?
10:58:57 <atemezin> Not sure I understand this issue..could it be resolved using the provenance info when agregating records in dataset?
10:59:01 <PhilA> cygri: The original owner of the record
10:59:45 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
10:59:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-gld-minutes.html PhilA
11:00:28 <fadmaa> permanentIdentifier is particularly helpful for aggregator... it is a propert that should not be changed by the aggregator if it exists in the original data
11:00:55 <martin_> (I have no particular opinion on this)
11:00:56 <PhilA> rrsagent, generate minutes
11:00:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-gld-minutes.html PhilA
11:00:59 <martin_> thanks
11:01:04 <Zakim> -PhilA
11:06:46 <martin_> martin_ has left #gld
11:07:02 <Zakim> -Makx
11:07:11 <cygri> zakim, who is on the phone?
11:07:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see martin_, fadmaa, atemezin, cygri
11:10:21 <Zakim> -cygri
11:10:41 <Zakim> -atemezin
11:10:43 <Zakim> -fadmaa
11:10:57 <cygri> sorry, connection dropped again
11:11:02 <cygri> and now i can't call in
11:11:12 <cygri> but we've said everything i guess :-)
11:11:15 <cygri> thanks all
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