Chatlog 2012-12-20

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14:59:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
14:59:57 <RRSAgent> logging to
14:59:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:59:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
15:00:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
15:00:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
15:00:02 <trackbot> Date: 20 December 2012
15:00:02 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started
15:00:10 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:00:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, [OpenLink]
15:00:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:00:30 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
15:00:30 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:00:56 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:00:56 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:01:02 <Zakim> + +
15:01:26 <Zakim> + +3539149aabb
15:01:29 <GofranShu> GofranShu has joined #GLD
15:01:29 <PhilA> zakim, code?
15:01:29 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, PhilA
15:01:34 <agipap> agipap has joined #gld
15:01:37 <Zakim> + +90507301aacc
15:01:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:00 <PhilA> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:02:00 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
15:02:25 <DeirdreLee> DeirdreLee has joined #gld
15:02:40 <Zakim> +??P15
15:02:40 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
15:02:54 <Zakim> +cygri
15:02:55 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
15:02:58 <agipap> zakim, +??P15 is me
15:02:58 <Zakim> sorry, agipap, I do not recognize a party named '+??P15'
15:03:02 <Makx> I am voip but don't know how to tell zakim that
15:03:03 <PhilA> agenda:
15:03:12 <agipap> zakim, ??P15 is me
15:03:12 <Zakim> +agipap; got it
15:03:58 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:03:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, MacTed (muted), +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:03:59 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
15:04:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Biplav, cygri, DeirdreLee, agipap, GofranShu, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:04:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, MacTed (muted), +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:04:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see Biplav, cygri, DeirdreLee, agipap, GofranShu, Zakim, RRSAgent, PhilA, danbri, Makx, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
15:04:14 <PhilA> zakim, aaaa is Biplav
15:04:14 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it
15:04:38 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld
15:05:01 <PhilA> meeting: GLD Weekly Telecon
15:05:01 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:05:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:05:10 <PhilA> chair: Bernadette
15:06:13 <PhilA> scribe: Biplav
15:06:17 <PhilA> scribeNick: Biplav
15:07:14 <Biplav> Bernadette: Gives opening remarks
15:07:34 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:07:35 <bhyland> Review & accept minutes from last meeting,
15:07:47 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:07:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:08:01 <bhyland> zakim, aabb is DeirdreLee
15:08:01 <Zakim> +DeirdreLee; got it
15:08:14 <GofranShu> +1
15:08:24 <bhyland> zakim, aacc is Makx
15:08:24 <Zakim> +Makx; got it
15:08:31 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
15:08:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see davidwood, MacTed (muted), Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, PhilA, agipap, cygri
15:08:36 <PhilA> +1
15:08:44 <bhyland> Minutes accepted
15:08:46 <agipap> +1
15:08:51 <Makx> +1
15:09:31 <PhilA> Collected LC comments on ORG
15:09:42 <Biplav> Bernadette: last meeting; issues raised but not sure of resolutions.
15:10:49 <bhyland> s/not sure of resolutions/nothing resolved
15:11:25 <Makx> +q
15:12:11 <Biplav> Bernadette: Every WG member should review the status of different streams put together by Sandro.
15:12:13 <PhilA> ack Makx
15:13:03 <Biplav> Makx: There was a discussion on vocab reuse by email. Should we take it off-line or in this call?
15:13:33 <Biplav> Comment: Given we have open slot due to last minute change, vocab reuse could be discussed in the call.
15:15:48 <Biplav> Agenda change: Serafín Olcoz will note be presenting on  Open Assets today.
15:17:13 <Biplav> Makx: Making request to have 10-15 mins discussion on vocab reuse.
15:17:18 <bhyland> Topic: RegORG
15:17:20 <PhilA> ->Reg Org ed draft
15:18:23 <Biplav> PhilA: Outstanding issues highlighted in the latest version.
15:20:00 <Biplav> PhilA: Make this FPWD candidate.
15:20:10 <Biplav> Bernadette: Is there a reference implementation?
15:20:54 <Biplav> PhilA: Business Registers can be seen as existing implementations (England, Australia, ..)
15:20:55 <bhyland> Would it make sense to have history / genesis of a vocabulary in the introduction?  Or might that be considered inappropriate/unnecessary ...
15:21:52 <bhyland> PhilA: ChrisT w/ Open Corporates has used an earlier version of this.  But the real implementation of this has been done by Agis for public spending...
15:22:02 <Biplav> PhilA: The closest implementation is by Agisilaos Papantoniou
15:22:34 <bhyland> … for Greek Government payments & receivables
15:23:25 <Biplav> Agis: Thousands of companies registered in their implementation (Greece)
15:24:06 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #gld
15:24:48 <Biplav> PhilA: Interest from Sweden, interest from more regions, pent up demand.
15:26:00 <Biplav> PhilA: UML diagram has been added, simplified.
15:27:56 <Biplav> PhilA: RegOrg is designed for companies that come into being due to some registration process. <Further describes the intent>
15:28:33 <bhyland> … Phil walked through diagram for RegOrg.
15:28:51 <bhyland> q?
15:28:59 <bhyland> q+
15:29:52 <Biplav> PhilA: Since companies are registered, adms:identifier is used to describe the registration identification.
15:30:38 <Biplav> PhilA: Open address on how to have address for organization.
15:30:49 <Biplav> s/address/issue
15:33:13 <Biplav> PhilA: Describes INSPIRE mandate by EU on how to publish geo-spatial data, .... and how it impacts address description in EU.
15:33:14 <bhyland> PhilA: Mentioned EU Commission initiative INSPIRE, see
15:33:47 <bhyland> EU requirements for conforment addresses …
15:34:50 <bhyland> PhilA: We should be agnostic about specifying addresses. We know there are compliance issues regarding expressing addresses in EU.
15:35:09 <Biplav> PhilA: Discussion on issue 47.
15:35:55 <cygri> q+
15:36:00 <bhyland> ack bhyland
15:36:06 <cygri> ORG profile:
15:36:16 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
15:36:28 <Biplav> Issue 47:
15:38:11 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:39:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:40:06 <Yigal> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:40:06 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
15:40:25 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:42:10 <agipap>
15:42:12 <bhyland> cygri: I suggest that RegOrg conformance section conform to ORG profile:
15:42:13 <bhyland> An ORG profile is a specification for data interchange that adds additional constraints to ORG. Additional constraints in a profile may include (but are not limited to):
15:42:13 <bhyland> 	•	a minimum set of required terms;
15:42:13 <bhyland> 	•	classes and properties for additional terms not covered in ORG;
15:42:13 <bhyland> 	•	controlled vocabularies or controlled sets of URIs to use as acceptable values for properties;
15:42:13 <bhyland> 	•	guidance on use of pairs of inverse properties (such as selecting only one member of the pair to be included, or requiring that both members be explicitly included);
15:42:13 <bhyland> 	•	guidance on choice of modelling approach for roles (see ).
15:42:31 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:42:41 <Makx> Makx has left #gld
15:42:58 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:43:50 <cygri> q+
15:45:40 <PhilA> ack cygri
15:45:46 <bhyland> s/conformance section conform to/conformance section include reference to ORG profile
15:45:54 <bhyland> great!
15:46:10 <bhyland> q?
15:46:20 <Biplav> PhilA: For FPWD, we can keep it and resolve it with more discussion.
15:46:36 <PhilA> s/PhilA/Cygri/
15:47:27 <PhilA> proposed resolution: that RegOrg as currently at  be moved to First Public Working Draft
15:47:34 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:47:46 <cygri> +1
15:48:00 <Biplav> +1
15:48:06 <bhyland> +1
15:48:22 <Makx> Makx has joined #gld
15:48:26 <MacTed> +1
15:48:33 <Makx> +1
15:48:35 <agipap> +1
15:48:39 <bhyland> approved
15:49:14 <PhilA> Resolution: that RegOrg as currently at  be moved to First Public Working Draft
15:49:37 <cygri> applause!
15:49:49 <Biplav> Topic: Reuse of vocabs
15:50:29 <bhyland> Should W3C vocabs include vocabs that are outside W3C process?
15:51:21 <Biplav> Makx: would like to know the feedback of the WG beyond what has already been exchanged over email.
15:52:09 <bhyland> Reference: From: Makx Dekkers []
15:52:09 <bhyland> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:03 AM
15:52:09 <bhyland> To: Public GLD WG
15:52:09 <bhyland> Cc: Sandro Hawke; Phil Archer
15:52:09 <bhyland> Subject: Referencing FOAF
15:52:54 <bhyland> Makx: Would hate to see W3C reinvent the wheel for deployed vocabularies.
15:53:33 <bhyland> … Some discussion for a community of vocabulary owners/maintainers to guarantee longterm availability of vocabularies.
15:53:55 <bhyland> … It is a wide issue that affects any initiative using vocabs.
15:53:58 <bhyland> q+
15:54:21 <Biplav> PhilA: Option [2] is the answer. Explains his reasons ...
15:55:42 <bhyland> PhilA: Recalled discussions in prior W3C standards activities (i.e., POWER), any vocab that depends upon any one person versus an organization with a published (stewardship) plan.
15:56:08 <cygri> q+
15:56:15 <PhilA> ack bhyland
15:56:20 <Biplav> q+
15:57:23 <Biplav> Bhyland: Makx question is at the core of LD.
15:58:28 <Biplav> Bhyland: publishing vocab puts an implicit social contract that one would be keeping the vocab alive for a while.
15:58:54 <bhyland> … W3C has no hesitation in recommending standards / vocabs defined by others.
16:00:21 <PhilA> I've done some work on this recently...
16:00:50 <cygri> q?
16:00:53 <Biplav> Bhyland: There should be a checklist when someone is putting a vocab in public domain, in best practice document.
16:01:26 <bhyland> q?
16:01:37 <PhilA> ack cygri
16:02:29 <bhyland> cygri: We've (DERI) done some work on conformance to a vocabulary and what it means.
16:02:33 <Biplav> Cygri: reuse can done in a few ways. (a) Conformance is one way.
16:04:03 <bhyland> … We shouldn't normatively depend on vocabs not defined by an open, consensus driven process...
16:04:05 <Biplav> Cygri: shouldn't normatively depend on others who have not gone through a formal process.
16:04:30 <PhilA> This is relevant to ISSUE-50
16:04:55 <PhilA> s/POWER/POWDER/
16:05:23 <Biplav> Cygri: We normally mean a weaker form. Who has authority to change and how much is the impact.
16:05:36 <Makx> q+
16:05:54 <bhyland> cygri: Not as worried about resources 404'ing rather, more concerned about changing underlying vocabs that are the building blocks of the LOD cloud...
16:07:04 <Biplav> Bhyland: let's revisit again. Important to get it right or we will have backlash. We need to be rigorous.
16:07:05 <PhilA> My understanding of cygri's words:  The notion of conformance that we define should not depend on factors that are not controlled as carefully as our own work - to which +1
16:07:27 <cygri> PhilA, exactly.
16:07:52 <PhilA> ack Biplav
16:07:52 <bhyland> q?
16:08:22 <PhilA> Biplav: This problem keeps being repeated, whether it's vocabularies, papers, wiki entries etc., There are patterns of how this is addressed and we should come back to it
16:08:28 <PhilA> ack Makx
16:08:58 <bhyland> Biplav: This issue is repeated & there are patterns that we should keep in mind to guide our deliverables/guidance/best practices
16:09:10 <Biplav> Makx: we should have criteria.
16:09:11 <PhilA> Makx: Everyone's pointing to a set of criteria. OK, but we eitehr have a local set or we may want to share those criteria - maybe in our BP document
16:09:43 <PhilA> bhyland: Thanks to everyone for showing up today and throughout the year. Expresses appreciation for everyone's volunteer effort
16:09:57 <Makx> NO I meant that we should asy in BP that you need to set your own criteria, and maybe later share a commoin set with others
16:10:18 <Zakim> -Yigal
16:10:22 <Yigal> Yigal has left #gld
16:10:23 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:10:26 <Zakim> -cygri
16:10:30 <Zakim> -agipap
16:10:30 <GofranShu> thanks bye
16:10:31 <Zakim> -PhilA
16:10:31 <bhyland> Meeting & GLD WG for 2012 is officially adjourned!  Happy Chanuka, Kwanza and Christmas to you all!
16:10:32 <Zakim> -DeirdreLee
16:10:37 <agipap> agipap has left #gld
16:10:44 <bhyland> Enjoy the Winter Solstice tommorw!
16:10:54 <bhyland> s/tommorw/tommorow
16:10:58 <Zakim> -Makx
16:12:14 <bhyland> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
16:12:21 <bhyland> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:12:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate bhyland
16:17:17 <Zakim> -bhyland
16:17:39 <bhyland> zakim, davidwood is me
16:17:39 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'davidwood'
16:17:43 <bhyland> ok
16:17:47 <Zakim> -Biplav
16:17:48 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has ended
16:17:48 <Zakim> Attendees were davidwood, MacTed, +, +3539149aabb, +90507301aacc, PhilA, cygri, agipap, Biplav, DeirdreLee, Makx, Yigal
16:18:23 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
16:18:40 <bhyland> PhilA - RRS is being cranky with me ...
16:18:44 <bhyland> I'm getting:
16:18:45 <bhyland> Not Found
16:18:45 <bhyland> The requested URL /2011/gld/wiki/index.php was not found on this server.
16:18:45 <bhyland> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
16:19:05 <bhyland> An unfamiliar error msg. Any ideas?
16:20:20 <cygri> cygri has joined #gld
16:23:11 <MacTed> RRSAgent, set logs public
16:23:14 <bhyland> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:23:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate bhyland
16:23:16 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
16:23:25 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:23:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate PhilA
16:23:51 <MacTed> logs have to be generated, before the "public" set will take effect
16:24:03 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
16:24:15 <bhyland> ok, thanks.
16:24:43 <PhilA> bhyland: You need to set the permission on the logs - easy to forget