Chatlog 2012-08-16

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13:55:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:55:48 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-gld-irc
13:55:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:55:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
13:55:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
13:55:52 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
13:55:55 <trackbot> Date: 16 August 2012
13:56:09 <bhyland> Agenda for today's call:  http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120816
13:57:58 <BenediktKaempgen> BenediktKaempgen has joined #gld
13:58:15 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:16 <Zakim> + +91.80.49.07.aaaa
13:58:57 <Zakim> + +49.721.aabb
13:58:57 <Zakim> - +49.721.aabb
13:58:57 <Zakim> + +49.721.aabb
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13:59:07 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
13:59:32 <Zakim> +David
13:59:45 <bhyland> zakim, david is me
13:59:45 <Zakim> +bhyland; got it
13:59:52 <SimpsonTP> SimpsonTP has joined #gld
14:00:09 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here?
14:00:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, +49.721.aabb, George_Thomas, bhyland
14:00:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see BartvanLeeuwen, olyerickson, BenediktKaempgen, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, bhyland, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
14:00:24 <Zakim> +hhalpin
14:00:30 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, aabb is BenediktKaempgen
14:00:30 <Zakim> +BenediktKaempgen; got it
14:00:34 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here?
14:00:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin
14:00:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see BartvanLeeuwen, olyerickson, BenediktKaempgen, Zakim, RRSAgent, George, bhyland, MacTed, trackbot, sandro
14:00:53 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone? 
14:00:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see +91.80.49.07.aaaa, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin
14:00:57 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is Biplav
14:00:58 <Zakim> +Biplav; got it
14:01:20 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin
14:01:22 <Zakim> +??P17
14:01:34 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim ??p17 is me
14:01:35 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #GLD
14:01:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> it is
14:02:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> but zakim doesn't react ?
14:02:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p17 is me
14:02:17 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
14:02:51 <bhyland> anyone else looked at Fadi et al's pres, see http://www.slideshare.net/fadimaali/selfservice-linked-government-data
14:03:06 <olyerickson> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, hhalpin, BartvanLeeuwen
14:03:08 <Zakim> +sandro
14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P22
14:03:19 <BenediktKaempgen> George, do you want me to scribe?
14:03:23 <DaveReynolds> zakim, ??P22 is me
14:03:23 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
14:03:37 <danbri> danbri has joined #gld
14:03:49 <olyerickson> zakim, who is speaking?
14:03:55 <BenediktKaempgen> Meeting: Telecon20120816
14:04:00 <Zakim> olyerickson, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bhyland (5%), hhalpin (80%), sandro (8%)
14:04:17 <BenediktKaempgen> Chair: George
14:04:29 <BenediktKaempgen> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120816
14:04:37 <olyerickson> zakim, hhalpin.
14:04:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'hhalpin', olyerickson
14:04:38 <BenediktKaempgen> Scribe: Benedikt
14:04:47 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
14:04:50 <BenediktKaempgen> ScribeNick: BenediktKaempgen
14:05:02 <olyerickson> zakim, mute hhalpin.
14:05:02 <Zakim> hhalpin should now be muted
14:05:02 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld
14:05:12 <olyerickson> i'm talking
14:05:19 <bhyland> zakim, unmute hhalpin
14:05:19 <Zakim> hhalpin should no longer be muted
14:05:24 <olyerickson> how do we switch then?
14:05:31 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:05:31 <bhyland> zakim, hhalpin olyerickson
14:05:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'hhalpin olyerickson', bhyland
14:05:42 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me
14:05:42 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it
14:05:49 <bhyland> zakim, hhalpin is olyerickson
14:05:49 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it
14:06:03 <George> zakim, who is on the call?
14:06:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen
14:06:10 <olyerickson> zakim, mute olyerickson.
14:06:10 <Zakim> olyerickson should now be muted
14:07:01 <sandro> zakim, hhalpin is olyerickson 
14:07:01 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'hhalpin'
14:07:10 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: TPAC & F2F?
14:07:19 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
14:07:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Biplav, BenediktKaempgen, George_Thomas, bhyland, olyerickson (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen
14:07:34 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Whether to have F2F at TPAC was not discussed. Will it happen? Unresolved.
14:07:48 <BenediktKaempgen> George: No GLD f2f planned at TPAC
14:07:55 <bhyland> Question from Bart: Did we make a definitive decision re: having our next F2F at TPAC?
14:08:23 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: who is going to TPAC?
14:09:08 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: I am planning to go. 
14:09:11 <sandro> I expect to be at TPAC, the whole week
14:09:17 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Going there, but not entire time.
14:09:31 <bhyland> Attending TPAC - Sandro, Bart, Bernadette … 
14:10:03 <Yigal> Yigal has joined #gld
14:10:36 <BenediktKaempgen> George, how about last minutes?
14:10:51 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Proposal to accept the 2012-07-26 minutes. 
14:10:54 <olyerickson> +1 to minutes
14:11:00 <BenediktKaempgen> minutes are at http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/meeting/2012-07-26
14:11:04 <Zakim> +??P21
14:11:13 <Yigal> zakim, ??p21 is me
14:11:13 <Zakim> +Yigal; got it
14:11:20 <BenediktKaempgen> minutes accepted
14:11:35 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Linked Data Glossary update - Bernadette
14:11:27 <bhyland> See https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html
14:12:08 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: if googling for "linked data glossary" nothing very useful is coming
14:13:31 <BenediktKaempgen> ... currently, there is no good result coming.
14:14:05 <BenediktKaempgen> ... asked Tom Heath whether to look at current status of our glossary. 
14:14:26 <BenediktKaempgen> ... asked him to put up link to linkeddata.org, he agreed
14:14:53 <BenediktKaempgen> ... I assumes that it is possible to clean our current LD glossary in a week
14:15:16 <BenediktKaempgen> s/assumes/assume/ 
14:15:53 <George> q?
14:15:53 <BenediktKaempgen> george: great idea to have a new version of glossary which is "approved" by Tom.
14:16:00 <olyerickson> unmute me.
14:16:04 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: tell me whether worth the effort?
14:16:11 <DaveReynolds> Seems like a good thing to do.
14:16:15 <olyerickson> zakim, unmute me.
14:16:15 <Zakim> olyerickson should no longer be muted
14:16:17 <tinagheen> yes, worth the effort
14:17:15 <bhyland> I invite anyone on this call, in the group or our larger community to send Ghislain & me improved wording of definitions so we can publish a decent, useful, canonical glossary.
14:17:38 <BenediktKaempgen> olyerickson: canonical glossary is important, if someone would be willing to work on it, that would be awesome.
14:18:18 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: I want under w3c domain a decent LD glossary
14:19:00 <Yigal> A google search brings up In the second position http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/glossary/index.html
14:19:06 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 for having it under the w3c domain
14:19:10 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: wants to know whether someone wants to add feedback to the current glossary.
14:19:13 <olyerickson> Now I get it...thanks...apologies for missing the poit
14:19:20 <olyerickson> s/poit/point/
14:19:39 <bhyland> no worries John, I'm sorry I wasn't clear in the beginning.
14:20:02 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: WG note would be more efficient but would be difficult to update
14:20:44 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: a wiki would be possible, too, but depending on what wiki is chosen, more or less people are possible to change it.
14:21:12 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q
14:21:26 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: question is whether only working group participant should change the glossary or all people that have an W3C account.
14:21:29 <bhyland> Agreed to speak to Ivan Herman, Semantic Web activity lead
14:21:54 <DaveReynolds> I'd also advocate using the Wiki so its a community resource which can be maintained.
14:21:55 <bhyland> The semantic web wiki is here http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/Main_Page
14:22:04 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Prefers solution where every W3C member can edit it
14:22:14 <BenediktKaempgen> ... otherwise it gets outdated, quickly.
14:22:52 <Biplav> Biplav: prefers W3C member editing
14:23:17 <BenediktKaempgen> ACTION: bhyland to ask Ivan and group about possible options for decent glossary location
14:23:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-74 - Ask Ivan and group about possible options for decent glossary location [on Bernadette Hyland - due 2012-08-23].
14:24:14 <BenediktKaempgen> george: any chance that Tom updates its page according to our changes to LD glossary.
14:24:59 <George> q?
14:25:07 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: yes, if group is motivated enough to put some effort in it. Also, there is nothing against having several glossaries, e.g., another glossary by Tom.
14:25:12 <George> ack BartvanLeeuwen 
14:25:36 <BenediktKaempgen> Topic: FPWD vocab progress
14:25:55 <olyerickson> Rec track reference: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance 
14:26:09 <BenediktKaempgen> george: most progress on dcat (related to void)
14:26:43 <BenediktKaempgen> ... Dave maybe put a possible date for another QB session
14:27:45 <BenediktKaempgen> ... open up for general discussion about the current status
14:28:17 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: getting the vocabularies to last call means that group has resolved all issues.
14:28:36 <BenediktKaempgen> ... then it can be reviewed by the more general public
14:28:58 <bhyland> Here is the detail on Last Call Announcement, see http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr#last-call
14:29:15 <BenediktKaempgen> ... if big changes are introduced, several last calls are possible.
14:29:38 <bhyland> Note, "Duration of the review: The announcement begins a review period that SHOULD last at least three weeks but MAY last longer if the technical report is complex or has significant external dependencies."
14:29:40 <BenediktKaempgen> ... we run the risk to be too narrow in the WG
14:30:43 <BenediktKaempgen> george: dcat - how much community involvement do we need to get to consensus?
14:31:11 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: pretty good status. People had their chances to contribute. 
14:31:40 <BenediktKaempgen> george: dcat to put in last call this fall should be possible
14:31:43 <BenediktKaempgen> sandro: yes
14:32:27 <olyerickson> Note, In addition to "People" isn't there "Location?" Or did we set that aside
14:32:45 <BenediktKaempgen> george: data-cube - what is the state here? 
14:33:09 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: Cube needs at least one more working draft. 
14:34:14 <BenediktKaempgen> ... regarding current issues, I think they are either out of scope or easy to resolve
14:34:51 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are lively discussions on new features, e.g., units of measures. I think there is no reason to change cube.
14:35:24 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are efforts to have some cube+, with more OLAP features. But risk of scope-creep.
14:36:04 <Biplav_> Biplav_ has joined #gld
14:36:40 <BenediktKaempgen> ... aim would be to have over the next 1-2 months a cube session and create a new working draft, that is then put to last call for wider reviewing.
14:37:20 <olyerickson> For clarification, one of our grad students on PROV is asking questions/making suggestions wrt DataCube/PROV usage
14:37:58 <olyerickson> That's why DaveReynolds mentioned me ;) 
14:38:45 <BenediktKaempgen> george: regarding proposals for cube. Shall we settle dates for proposals done, reviewing, qb session etc.?
14:39:15 <bhyland> q+
14:39:35 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: prefers to have proposals out on mailing lists first, and then see the reactions. Then we would be more flexible.
14:40:12 <BenediktKaempgen> ... What is the time frame for vocabs?
14:40:45 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: last call was scheduled for October 2012. We are some time behind.
14:45:42 <BenediktKaempgen> george: taking the action to speak to Dave and Richard to settle dates for proposals and cube session, as soon as possible.
14:45:57 <bhyland> My concern is that we published FPWD in early April.  We got quite a bit of useful feedback in the following months.  I have a bias to action to at least *try* to getting DCAT to by September.
14:46:19 <bhyland> Recognizing that we may have 1-2 last calls.
14:46:37 <George> q?
14:46:42 <BenediktKaempgen> george: speaking about this topic in next chair telco.
14:47:09 <bhyland> Dave: Suggests getting DCAT out to LC in next month.
14:47:11 <bhyland> +1
14:47:12 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: get dcat last call out should be focus now
14:47:33 <bhyland> TOPIC: ORG vocab
14:47:54 <George> ack bhyland 
14:47:56 <bhyland> See http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Organizational_Structures
14:47:58 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: Bart had use case to define organization independent of people.
14:48:06 <bhyland> ED = http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html
14:48:46 <bhyland> I'd like to propose that DCAT and Cube get to FC in September.
14:48:46 <BenediktKaempgen> ... there are other efforts (e.g., ADMS) that overlap with efforts which may lead with some confusion.
14:49:24 <bhyland> In fairness, we should consider ORG in context with ADMS organizational vocab (ISA Programme)
14:49:54 <BenediktKaempgen> ... it is important that vocabularies are compatible, e.g., org, people, ADMS.
14:50:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> +q
14:50:35 <bhyland> q+
14:50:55 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: Proposes to change org regarding to feedback and get a new version out.
14:51:28 <bhyland> +1 to Bart
14:51:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> ack me
14:51:43 <BenediktKaempgen> Bart: If changes are relatively easy, they should be done as soon as possible.
14:52:09 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ack me
14:52:09 <Zakim> I see bhyland on the speaker queue
14:52:54 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: risk of having only emotional discussions, but not bringing improvements to the people
14:54:01 <George> q?
14:54:03 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: ADMS seems to big to be thouroughly reviewed by WG
14:54:06 <George> ack bhyland 
14:54:20 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:54:29 <DaveReynolds> ack me
14:55:21 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: bigger issue is relation between ADMS and dcat. I do not think we need to review ADMS to make progress with org.
14:55:25 <Biplav_> q+
14:56:17 <BenediktKaempgen> ... business part of ADMS seems a more independent part
14:56:34 <bhyland> DaveReynolds: ADMS underpins everything and thus have an impact on DCAT.  The business vocabulary ISA Programme is not well understood by people on the call vis a vis connections with our vocabs in FPWD.
14:56:43 <Biplav_> uncertainty
14:56:49 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav_: Have we decided how to handle uncertainty?
14:57:11 <DaveReynolds> q+
14:57:25 <DaveReynolds> ack me
14:57:28 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav: Example is accident with injured with people. There is inherent uncertainty here.
14:58:11 <bhyland> ORG has no concept of uncertainty.  You can represent history over time, but at any given time, it is deterministic at a given interval.
14:58:13 <BenediktKaempgen> DaveReynolds: regarding org  uncertainty is not considered, since we deal with deterministic snapshots.
14:58:51 <Biplav_> Agreed - uncertainty in organization is hard to imagine.
14:58:58 <BenediktKaempgen> ... in data-cube uncertainty is a relevant issue and can be handled by qualitative attributes.
14:59:47 <bhyland> Dave: Historic info captured by "historical information" component of ORG, see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html#historical-information
14:59:50 <George> q?
14:59:55 <George> ack Biplav_ 
15:00:03 <BenediktKaempgen> Biplav_: Was expecting some concepts regarding uncertainty in general.
15:00:13 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/urw3/XGR-urw3-20080331/ Uncertainty Reasoning for the World Wide Web
15:00:23 <BenediktKaempgen> ... but sees Daves points.
15:00:39 <BenediktKaempgen> TOPIC: Upcoming Meeting Agenda Planning
15:01:09 <BenediktKaempgen> bhyland: topics will be best practices and community directory. Next steps.
15:01:52 <bhyland> See Scribes page for schedule and please volunteer to scribe :-) http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Scribes
15:01:53 <olyerickson> Thanks Leaders!
15:01:56 <DaveReynolds> bye all
15:01:58 <Zakim> -tinagheen
15:02:00 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye
15:02:00 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:02:01 <Zakim> -sandro
15:02:01 <Zakim> -George_Thomas
15:02:03 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
15:02:04 <Zakim> -olyerickson
15:02:11 <Zakim> -Biplav
15:02:11 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
15:02:11 <BenediktKaempgen> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 
15:02:11 <bhyland> Thanks all.
15:02:14 <olyerickson> olyerickson has left #gld
15:02:19 <Zakim> -Yigal
15:02:20 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has left #gld
15:02:21 <BenediktKaempgen> RRSAgent, generate minutes 
15:02:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-gld-minutes.html BenediktKaempgen
15:02:36 <George> thanks BenediktKaempgen !!
15:03:01 <BenediktKaempgen> no problem, thanks George
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