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14:01:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld 14:01:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-gld-irc 14:01:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:01:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld 14:01:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD 14:01:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started 14:01:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 14:01:13 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012 14:01:18 <luisBermudez> luisBermudez has joined #gld 14:01:19 <Zakim> + +33.4.93.00.aadd 14:01:44 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #gld 14:01:53 <Mike_Pendleton> Mike_Pendleton has joined #gld 14:02:01 <PhilA2> zakim, code? 14:02:03 <Zakim> + +1.540.898.aaee 14:02:07 <Zakim> +??P34 14:02:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, me is ??p34 14:02:25 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:firstname.lastname@example.org), PhilA2 14:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, BartvanLeeuwen, I do not recognize a party named 'me' 14:02:44 <Zakim> + +3539149aaff 14:02:53 <Zakim> + +1.267.481.aagg 14:02:55 <mhausenblas> Zakim, aaff is me 14:03:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p34 is me 14:03:17 <Zakim> +mhausenblas; got it 14:03:24 <George> trackbot, start telecon 14:03:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world 14:03:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD 14:03:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference 14:03:29 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 14:03:29 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2012 14:03:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM already started 14:03:57 <Zakim> +??P44 14:04:12 <olyerickson> Zakim, ??P44 is me. 14:04:18 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, who's here? 14:04:31 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it 14:04:38 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call? 14:04:39 <Zakim> +??P52 14:04:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.202.691.aaaa, George_Thomas, +49.721.aabb, +1.202.566.aacc, +33.4.93.00.aadd, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, 14:04:46 <Zakim> ... ??P52 14:04:47 <PhilA2> zakim, ??p52 is me 14:05:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.202.691.aaaa, George_Thomas, +49.721.aabb, +1.202.566.aacc, +33.4.93.00.aadd, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, 14:05:11 <BenediktKaempgen> zakim, aabb is BenediktKaempgen 14:05:19 <Zakim> ... ??P52 14:05:21 <DanG> 691-aaaa is DanG 14:05:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen, bhyland, 14:05:26 <Zakim> ... trackbot, sandro 14:05:29 <luisBermudez> aagg is me 14:05:32 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it 14:05:48 <PhilA2> zakim, aaaa is DanG 14:05:50 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is danG 14:05:52 <Zakim> +BenediktKaempgen; got it 14:06:28 <Zakim> +DanG; got it 14:06:32 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa' 14:06:40 <Mike_Pendleton> zakim, aacc is Mike_Pendleton 14:07:08 <George> zakim, who is here? 14:07:10 <gatemezi> Zakim, +33.4.93.00.aadd is me 14:07:14 <Zakim> +Mike_Pendleton; got it 14:07:30 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld 14:07:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, +33.4.93.00.aadd, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2 14:07:49 <Zakim> +gatemezi; got it 14:08:03 <gatemezi> Zakim, +33.4.93.00.aadd is gatemezi 14:08:07 <olyerickson> Scribe: olyerickson 14:08:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see tinagheen, Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen, 14:08:23 <Zakim> ... bhyland, trackbot, sandro 14:08:39 <PhilA2> zakim, who is here? 14:08:42 <Zakim> sorry, gatemezi, I do not recognize a party named '+33.4.93.00.aadd' 14:08:47 <Zakim> +[LC] 14:08:53 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me 14:08:57 <olyerickson> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20120405 14:09:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2, [LC] 14:09:16 <olyerickson> Materials published; congrats and thanks to everyone esp Sandrp 14:09:21 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it 14:09:24 <olyerickson> s/Sandrp/Sandro/ 14:09:31 <gatemezi> s/Sandrp/Sandro 14:09:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see tinagheen, Mike_Pendleton, PhilA2, luisBermudez, Zakim, RRSAgent, gatemezi, DanG, olyerickson, BartvanLeeuwen, MacTed, George, mhausenblas, danbri, BenediktKaempgen, 14:09:45 <Zakim> ... bhyland, trackbot, sandro 14:09:47 <PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-dcat/ works 14:09:48 <olyerickson> Comments from mhausenblas 14:09:55 <Zakim> + +188.8.131.52.aahh 14:10:11 <olyerickson> Now that FPWD is out, move toward ISA (?) "alignment" 14:10:45 <olyerickson> ... PhilA: core vocabs integrated next couple weeks 14:11:16 <olyerickson> ... ISA specs NOT currently in published versions of FPWDs 14:11:17 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld 14:11:31 <olyerickson> mhausenblas: Planning call req'd 14:11:38 <olyerickson> PhilA2: makes sense 14:11:48 <olyerickson> ... needs to send mhausenblas something before WWW 14:12:07 <PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-people/ works 14:12:15 <George> q? 14:12:27 <bhyland> agenda+ coordination between Prov group (Luc and Paul Groth) + Mhausenblas & ?? re: agent meets people vocab 14:12:28 <PhilA2> Guess what http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-data-cube/ 14:12:51 <PhilA2> And http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-org/ 14:13:24 <olyerickson> bhyland: Skip to "Org" agenda item 14:13:29 <PhilA2> http://www.w3.org/TR/gld-bp/ :-( 14:13:37 <olyerickson> +1 bhyland to explain... 14:14:19 <olyerickson> ... Weds during sweb coord meeting, paul groth mentioned multiple W3C groups with RPOV concerns 14:14:58 <PhilA2> s/RPOV/PROV/ 14:15:03 <olyerickson> Topic: PROV tie-ins 14:15:41 <olyerickson> mhausenblas: What is the status of PROV? 14:15:52 <PhilA2> q+ 14:16:08 <olyerickson> bhyland: need to keep up with our liaison with PROV 14:16:25 <olyerickson> ... current status of PROV, not that far ahead 14:16:37 <George> ack PhilA 14:16:41 <olyerickson> PhilA2: would like to be involved in that discussion 14:17:10 <bhyland> Paul Groth mentioned these references for our consideration: 14:17:11 <bhyland>  people: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/people/index.html 14:17:11 <bhyland>  org: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/org/index.html 14:17:11 <bhyland>  prov-dm: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm.html#component2 14:17:13 <olyerickson> ... SPARQL 1.1 is about to bring up "prov" considerations 14:17:33 <George> q? 14:17:44 <olyerickson> q? 14:17:48 <olyerickson> q+ 14:18:23 <olyerickson> George: Org "speaks to" OPMV... 14:18:55 <olyerickson> Topic: Last week's minutes 14:18:58 <mhausenblas> +1 14:19:07 <gatemezi> +1 14:19:10 <Mike_Pendleton> +1 14:19:13 <BenediktKaempgen> +1 14:19:13 <luisBermudez> +1 14:19:40 <PhilA2> q? 14:19:46 <olyerickson> George: Sorry to miss "geo work" discussion last week 14:19:58 <olyerickson> ... any further discussion/comments 14:20:10 <bhyland> closing loop on coordinating mhausenblas, phila2, luc and paul groth, see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/CG/track/actions/8 14:20:12 <George> q? 14:20:16 <George> ack olyerickson 14:20:59 <PhilA2> olyerickson: Regarding the provenance discussion... I'm trying to understand what the issue is? Was Paul concerned that there are lots of parallel efforts on provenance, or people, or what? 14:21:04 <bhyland> TOPIC: Wrap up from last week's GeoLinkData Initiative ... 14:21:34 <annew> annew has joined #gld 14:21:52 <olyerickson> bhyland: explanation of PROV question 14:22:08 <PhilA2> bhyland: AIUI, Paul in particular, they invented "agent" and it has a lot of people attributes. We're up to 4 different ways to capture people-related info just from W3C 14:22:12 <olyerickson> ... up to 4 ways to describe people 14:22:21 <olyerickson> ... need to coordinate 14:22:38 <olyerickson> ... bhyland tasked with bringing together the various parties 14:22:53 <olyerickson> ... is there common ground, or should there be separate paths 14:22:57 <Zakim> +Sandro 14:23:01 <sandro> (Sorry I'm late) 14:23:08 <olyerickson> ... can/should "people" be simpler 14:23:15 <PhilA2> Someone said schema.org ? http://philarcher.org/diary/2012/danbri/ 14:23:50 <olyerickson> ... example schema.org w.r.t simplicity 9and role in packaging/marketing) 14:24:30 <olyerickson> Topic: What to do w.r.t. geo vocabulary 14:24:49 <olyerickson> George: many esp govt would like to put a "stake in the ground" 14:24:54 <bhyland> To remind people who were present last week (and weren't), Boris gave a great talk on work on map4rdf, see http://oegdev.dia.fi.upm.es/projects/map4rdf/ 14:24:56 <olyerickson> ... poll the group? 14:25:30 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Trying to notice what is going on, while being concerned about strengthing this group 14:25:41 <olyerickson> ... BUT we do have optional item 14:25:42 <gatemezi> @bhyland --Thanks for the link 14:25:54 <olyerickson> ... there is much well-done current work in this area 14:25:59 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+ 14:26:16 <olyerickson> ... thinks, OGC's (??) job 14:26:24 <olyerickson> ... yet people bring it to use 14:26:24 <bhyland> Per PhilA2's reference, see http://geovocab.org/doc/neogeo/ 14:26:42 <gatemezi> +1 to PhilA 14:26:44 <PhilA2> ack BartvanLeeuwen 14:26:49 <olyerickson> ... GLD is in a position to consider, yet we have it as an opt. on our charter 14:27:06 <olyerickson> BartvanLeeuwen: concern over amt of work reqd to get it done 14:27:18 <olyerickson> ... should at least reference the relevant vocabs 14:27:30 <bhyland> q+ 14:27:34 <olyerickson> ... shouldn't write our own recommendation 14:27:42 <olyerickson> ... there are "smarter" people to do that 14:27:53 <olyerickson> ... best practices should be able to point to other references 14:28:02 <PhilA2> ref: Open Geospatial Consortium http://www.opengeospatial.org/ 14:28:03 <olyerickson> ... but maybe not... 14:28:08 <luisBermudez> q+ 14:28:26 <olyerickson> George: If there *is* energy, there is interest in the community 14:28:40 <olyerickson> ... there's lots of innovation going on in this area 14:28:42 <olyerickson> bhyland: 14:28:57 <olyerickson> bhyland: BP doc focusing on what SHOULD be done 14:29:02 <olyerickson> ... BP not about "how" 14:29:16 <olyerickson> ... rec'd of vocabs is new ground for W3C 14:29:53 <PhilA2> I'm the last person to object to FOAF! 14:29:55 <olyerickson> ... GLD approach to rec'd vocabs is new 14:30:21 <PhilA2> q+ 14:30:22 <olyerickson> ... need to be careful to not go beyond out core expertise 14:30:26 <PhilA2> ack bhyland 14:30:34 <PhilA2> ack luisBermudez 14:31:09 <olyerickson> luisBermudez: Geo vocab standard will be published soon 14:31:34 <olyerickson> ... important to find way to integrate e.g. geoSPARQL, etc 14:32:12 <PhilA2> luisBermudez: geoSPARQL will be publicly available in June (from OGC) 14:32:21 <PhilA2> ack me 14:32:34 <olyerickson> ... luisBermudez the problem: geoSPARQL not a publicly available standard (will be) 14:32:52 <BenediktKaempgen> +q 14:33:00 <olyerickson> PhilA2: GLD should look at it "a little later" in the year 14:33:14 <olyerickson> ... FOAF is now under the wing of DC 14:33:17 <sandro> q? 14:33:40 <sandro> q+ to ask Phil in what sense one vocab can use another 14:33:41 <bhyland> @PhilA2 thanks for clarifying/reminding me re: ISA People & FOAF embrace 14:33:50 <olyerickson> ... thought question: Will FOAF be around next year? 14:34:12 <sandro> DanG, the reference was to Dan Brickley, co-parent of FOAF. 14:35:43 <danbri> while we're on topic, can I draw attention to some other People vocab things from this week? 14:35:44 <bhyland> @george, what URL would you like me to add to agenda from HR14 proposal discussion? 14:35:46 <danbri> see https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/opensocial-and-gadgets-spec 14:35:48 <olyerickson> BenediktKaempgen: Talked to supervisor, tells us that that community has tried to consolidate, question of what GLD process will be for integrating in ???geo (neogeo?) 14:36:13 <olyerickson> Thanks to sandro for the big push last night 14:36:13 <bhyland> +1 thanks to Sandro 14:36:18 <danbri> opensocial is a tech for making social networks, and is linked to PortableContacts, a vcard-based addressbook format. opensocial people are wondering how to address new requirements for modelling organizations, scientific info etc. 14:36:24 <gatemezi> s/???geo/neogeo 14:36:37 <olyerickson> um 14:36:38 <danbri> e.g .https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/opensocial-and-gadgets-spec/g3NyGn-8Avs 14:36:49 <olyerickson> is there an announcement that some of us are missing? 14:37:07 <olyerickson> sandro: What does it mean for one vocab to "use" another 14:37:13 <danbri> neogeo ~ http://nuts.geovocab.org/id/nuts0.html http://nuts.geovocab.org/ ? 14:38:15 <olyerickson> PhilA2: Issue of alignment of e.g. foaf:Person with schema.org equivalent, etc 14:38:45 <olyerickson> ... See PhilA2 blog post (today) 14:39:09 <olyerickson> ... motivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired... 14:39:20 <gatemezi> @LuisBermudez: could you know any triple store that have implemented part of geoSPARQL requirements? 14:39:44 <olyerickson> sandro: can't recommend The Government to use vocab that can't be used in perpetuity 14:39:50 <PhilA2> smotivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired.../motivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../ 14:39:54 <PhilA2> s/motivated PhilA2 to think foaf should be retired.../motivated PhilA2 to think a day may come when foaf could be retired.../ 14:40:12 <PhilA2> My blog post http://philarcher.org/diary/2012/danbri/ 14:40:27 <sandro> q? 14:40:33 <sandro> queue= 14:40:57 <bhyland> PhilA2: There may a day in our community that some sacred cows should be retired … 14:41:26 <George> q? 14:42:03 <bhyland> q+ 14:42:09 <bhyland> q+ 14:42:21 <sandro> q+ to disagree with olyerickson 14:42:51 <olyerickson> bhyland: It's a concept called "social responsibility" 14:43:14 <olyerickson> ... when you publish "content" you are making a commitment or 'social contract' 14:43:35 <olyerickson> ... for the foreseeable future 14:43:48 <olyerickson> ... BP must educate/"warn" adopters 14:44:15 <olyerickson> ... vocabs should be from authoritative sources that make commitment 14:44:24 <bhyland> zakim, who is speaking? 14:44:33 <olyerickson> sandro: doesn't agree 14:44:35 <Zakim> bhyland, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: George_Thomas (5%), olyerickson (9%), Sandro (57%) 14:44:41 <Zakim> - +184.108.40.206.aahh 14:44:56 <olyerickson> ... W3C makes a commitment to e.g. DCAT 14:45:21 <George> q? 14:45:25 <George> ack bhyland 14:45:25 <olyerickson> ... details will change, there is a process and W3C stands behind it 14:45:28 <George> ack sandro 14:45:28 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to disagree with olyerickson 14:45:29 <bhyland> ack bhyland 14:46:23 <PhilA2> olyerickson: You, Sandro, were right to disagree with my words 14:46:33 <PhilA2> olyerickson: An organisation needs to know what it is adopting 14:46:35 <bhyland> Sandro: Gov'ts should be able to count on key vocabs, such as DCAT, in perpetuity. 14:46:53 <PhilA2> ... e.g. the current version of DCAT, recognising that it may evolve 14:47:12 <PhilA2> olyerickson: They need to recognise that by using a vocan they become part of that community 14:47:27 <sandro> +1 olyerickson Yes, people adopting a tech become part of the stewardship community, when things work well. That's sustainable. 14:47:32 <bhyland> johnerickson: Gov't need to recognize their role as stewards of vocabs [and data sets] that they publish. 14:47:34 <PhilA2> ... they can't wine about the fact that current browsers don't working with HTML1 any more 14:47:40 <sandro> q? 14:47:53 <olyerickson> we are in fervent agreement 14:47:59 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call? 14:47:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see DanG, George_Thomas, BenediktKaempgen, Mike_Pendleton, gatemezi, +1.540.898.aaee, BartvanLeeuwen, mhausenblas, +1.267.481.aagg, olyerickson, PhilA2, tinagheen, 14:48:02 <Zakim> ... Sandro 14:48:07 <olyerickson> (if not using the most articulate language) 14:48:22 <olyerickson> sandro: brings us back to foaf 14:48:59 <mhausenblas> Michael: I have to apologise, need to run now (need to do some fire-fighting, unforeseen incident that came up …) 14:49:02 <olyerickson> ... might have a situation where W3C doesn't control the namespace, dereferencing, etc 14:49:16 <olyerickson> ... need to ensure namespace is part of the community stewardship 14:49:27 <PhilA2> q+ 14:49:30 <olyerickson> ... community needs to have control 14:49:43 <olyerickson> PhilA2: agrees with sandro 14:50:24 <sandro> sandro: We should only use namespaces for which we have en enforcable commitment to respect some legitimate stewardship/community process 14:50:29 <olyerickson> ... "DanBri under a bus" problem has created adoption problems for foaf in the past, seems to be resolved now 14:51:15 <olyerickson> ... key issue is foaf:Person and schema.org allow imaginary people 14:51:29 <PhilA2> q- 14:51:37 <olyerickson> Topic: HR14 14:51:46 <olyerickson> ... httpRange-14 14:51:54 <danbri> (the dictionaries definition of 'person' allows imaginary people too) (imagine a dictionary where each term had 'except for pretend X's...'?) 14:51:55 <Zakim> -mhausenblas 14:52:13 <olyerickson> George: any views/thoughts? 14:52:18 <danbri> btw ... if GLD have expectations re what long-term preservation commitments you'd like from schema.org, do please write them down and pass them along 14:52:19 <olyerickson> sandro: (laughs) 14:52:26 <olyerickson> ... gave up in 2003 14:52:55 <olyerickson> ... proposed 303 but has given up 14:53:44 <gatemezi> I was reading also this post of Jenni http://www.jenitennison.com/blog/node/168 14:53:49 <PhilA2> olyerickson: I've been watching in the way you watch a NASCAR race expecting a crash. A real concern is implementation efficiency 14:54:22 <PhilA2> ... there are existential issues but the practical ones are perhaps more key - redirection, caching and so on 14:54:45 <PhilA2> ... there are some proposals around 3xx and 200/207 14:55:02 <PhilA2> ... I really haven't seen a convergence 14:55:15 <olyerickson> Current state: Open for proposals 14:55:16 <PhilA2> George: It's open for proposals on possible conversion 14:55:22 <bhyland> q+ 14:56:31 <sandro> q+ 14:56:32 <bhyland> olyerickson: "I'm not interested from a fascinated academic perspective, rather a grouchy implementer." 14:56:49 <olyerickson> ;) 14:57:47 <olyerickson> bhyland: jenit is soliciting proposals 14:58:01 <olyerickson> ... trying to do it sensibly 14:58:10 <olyerickson> ... reaching out to stakeholders 14:58:31 <olyerickson> ... jenit trying to get something done 14:58:47 <olyerickson> ... put something in writing, not "pissy emails" 14:59:11 <olyerickson> not(sandro) : interested in concern over performance 14:59:32 <olyerickson> ... are there designs that deliver performance which doesn't violate semantics of 303 14:59:54 <George> q? 14:59:55 <olyerickson> how to engage: write it up, submit 15:00:11 <bhyland> ack bhyland 15:00:13 <olyerickson> Topic: Wrap-up 15:00:59 <olyerickson> George: Interesting how when GLD people get interested and start to engage, their Inboxes get flooded 15:01:25 <olyerickson> Topic: Agenda items for next week 15:01:32 <olyerickson> (none offered) 15:01:42 <olyerickson> Adjorned 15:01:46 <gatemezi> Thanks George and olyerickson.. 15:01:48 <olyerickson> 'Have a great day' 15:01:52 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx and bye ! 15:01:52 <BenediktKaempgen> Thanks 15:01:55 <DanG> Bye 15:02:01 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has left #gld 15:02:07 <Zakim> -tinagheen 15:02:13 <Zakim> -DanG 15:02:17 <Zakim> -Mike_Pendleton 15:02:19 <Zakim> - +1.540.898.aaee 15:02:21 <Zakim> - +1.267.481.aagg 15:02:29 <Zakim> -PhilA2 15:02:33 <olyerickson> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible 15:02:37 <Zakim> -Sandro 15:02:41 <Zakim> -BenediktKaempgen 15:02:46 <olyerickson> RRSAgent, generate minutes 15:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/05-gld-minutes.html olyerickson # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. 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