Chatlog 2012-03-15

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13:56:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #gld
13:56:57 <RRSAgent> logging to
13:56:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #gld
13:57:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GLD
13:57:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Government Linked Data Working Group Teleconference
13:57:02 <trackbot> Date: 15 March 2012
13:57:12 <deirdrelee> deirdrelee has joined #gld
13:57:26 <Zakim> T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM has now started
13:57:34 <Zakim> +bhyland
13:57:35 <Zakim> + +1.202.566.aaaa
13:57:59 <Zakim> +sandro
13:58:06 <bhyland> zakim, aaaa is Mike_P
13:58:06 <Zakim> +Mike_P; got it
13:59:15 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Government Linked Data (GLD) WG --
13:59:32 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has joined #gld
14:00:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:11 <bhyland> Linked Data Glossary, see
14:00:19 <DaveReynolds> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:00:19 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
14:00:27 <Zakim> +[LC]
14:00:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:13 <boris> boris has joined #gld
14:01:18 <bhyland> zakim, IPcaller deirdrelee
14:01:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'IPcaller deirdrelee', bhyland
14:01:26 <boris> zakim, code?
14:01:26 <Zakim> the conference code is 45394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, boris
14:01:28 <Mike_Pendleton> Mike_Pendleton has joined #gld
14:01:30 <bhyland> zakim, IPcaller is deirdrelee
14:01:30 <Zakim> +deirdrelee; got it
14:01:35 <Zakim> +fadmaa
14:01:38 <fadmaa> fadmaa has joined #gld
14:01:38 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:01:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa
14:02:04 <Zakim> +??P21
14:02:10 <luis_bermudez> luis_bermudez has joined #gld
14:02:21 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:27 <martin> zakim, ??P24 is me
14:02:32 <fadmaa> zakim, mute me
14:02:36 <Zakim> +martin; got it
14:02:37 <Zakim> + +1.202.691.aabb
14:02:39 <Zakim> +??P26
14:02:42 <martin> zakim, mute me
14:02:44 <Zakim> fadmaa should now be muted
14:02:47 <olyerickson> zakim, ?p21 is me.
14:02:49 <boris> zakim, ??P6 is boris
14:02:57 <Zakim> martin should now be muted
14:03:01 <Zakim> sorry, olyerickson, I do not recognize a party named '?p21'
14:03:02 <olyerickson> zakim, ??p21 is me.
14:03:06 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:03:11 <bhyland> scribe: DaveReynolds
14:03:18 <Zakim> +olyerickson; got it
14:03:22 <DaveReynolds> scribenick: DaveReynolds
14:03:29 <bhyland> Agenda:
14:03:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:03:47 <PhilA2> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:03:50 <bhyland> zakim, who is on the call?
14:03:52 <Zakim> +PhilA2; got it
14:03:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), +1.202.691.aabb, ??P26, PhilA2
14:04:10 <bhyland> zakim, aabb is DanG
14:04:10 <Zakim> +DanG; got it
14:04:30 <bhyland> zakim, P26 is boris
14:04:30 <Zakim> sorry, bhyland, I do not recognize a party named 'P26'
14:04:32 <boris> zakim, ??P6 IS BORIS
14:04:32 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:04:38 <boris> zakim, ??P6 is boris
14:04:38 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as Plh, boris
14:04:48 <Zakim> +George_Thomas
14:05:01 <PhilA2> zakim, ??P26 is Boris
14:05:01 <Zakim> +Boris; got it
14:05:02 <George> George has joined #gld
14:05:43 <gatemezi> gatemezi has joined #gld
14:05:52 <Zakim> + +
14:06:04 <bhyland> Proposed: to accept minutes:
14:06:16 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld
14:06:37 <boris> +1
14:06:39 <Zakim> +gatemezi
14:06:39 <olyerickson> +1 accept minutes 
14:06:46 <Zakim> -gatemezi
14:06:53 <gatemezi> +1 accept minutes
14:06:56 <fadmaa> +1
14:07:03 <DanG> +1
<bhyland> Resolved: to accept minutes:
14:07:07 <Biplav> Biplav has joined #gld
14:07:58 <Zakim> +gatemezi
14:08:08 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: requested people, dcat, org, data cube to first pass WD
14:08:18 <PhilA2> Terrific news! Well done to the folk who've worked hard on those
14:08:27 <Zakim> -gatemezi
14:08:44 <gatemezi> Zakim, who is here?
14:08:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, [LC], deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), DanG, Boris, PhilA2, George_Thomas, +
14:08:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Biplav, tinagheen, gatemezi, luis_bermudez, fadmaa, Mike_Pendleton, boris, PhilA2, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanG, martin, DaveReynolds, MacTed, bhyland,
14:08:47 <Zakim> ... olyerickson, trackbot, sandro
14:09:10 <Zakim> +gatemezi
14:09:37 <olyerickson>  zakim, who is on the phone.
14:09:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', olyerickson
14:09:56 <PhilA2> Let me start with
14:10:03 <bhyland> Topic: Update on the ADMS spec and ISA eGov core vocabs
14:10:11 <tinagheen> Zakim, [LC] is me
14:10:11 <Zakim> +tinagheen; got it
14:10:48 <bhyland> chair: GeorgeThomas
14:11:22 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ISA producing three core vocabs.
14:11:27 <Zakim> +lbermudez
14:11:37 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: People - soley a natural person (not businesses-as-people etc)
14:11:53 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: business - to describe legal entities, subsets of organizations
14:12:10 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: location - address information, intended to be INSPIRE compliant
14:13:03 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ISA person can be used as a subset of W3C people vocab
14:13:26 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ISA business not directly connected to org (though compatible?)
14:13:59 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Fourth vocab. ADMS. Asset Descriptions Metadata Schema.
14:15:10 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: It is relevant for GLD.  Government institutions are publishing assets like code lists, standards, vocabs. ADMS is for describing those (c.f. DCAT for describing datasets themselves).
14:15:13 <George> George has joined #gld
14:15:27 <George> zakim, who is here?
14:15:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see bhyland, Mike_P, sandro, DaveReynolds, tinagheen, deirdrelee, fadmaa (muted), olyerickson, martin (muted), DanG, Boris, PhilA2, George_Thomas, +,
14:15:30 <Zakim> ... gatemezi, lbermudez
14:15:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see George, Biplav, tinagheen, gatemezi, luis_bermudez, fadmaa, Mike_Pendleton, boris, PhilA2, deirdrelee, Zakim, RRSAgent, DanG, martin, DaveReynolds, MacTed, bhyland,
14:15:31 <Zakim> ... olyerickson, trackbot, sandro
14:15:33 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ADMS being implemented by joinup platform 
14:15:27 <PhilA2>
14:15:49 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ADMS also being used by Danish portal
14:15:47 <PhilA2>
14:15:52 <George> q?
14:16:20 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: W3C will also use AMDS for TR descriptions
14:18:03 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Now suggesting that GLD take on all four of the vocabularies.
14:18:45 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: All of them match existing GLD charter.
14:20:22 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Are being asked to take result of EU review process as FPWD-ready material. But are, of course, free to then extend and improve before final publication.
14:20:54 <George> q?
14:21:05 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: All four are intended to ready end of March for targetted FPWD publication in May.
14:21:10 <bhyland> q+
14:22:13 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: There is a 5th vocab, for description of open source software. Not being brought to GLD at this time (outside of charter)
14:23:04 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: It is called RADion - Repository Assets Description
14:23:15 <George> ack bhyland 
14:23:18 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2 - very high level, DCAT could be seen as specialization of it (?)
14:24:39 <PhilA2> -> RADion details
14:25:16 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: a lot of the heavy lifting has been done on these vocabs, it is a funded effort, they are well documented. Encourages GLD folks to look them and voice opinions on them.
14:25:37 <olyerickson> I haven't see region-specific in things I've looked at
14:25:52 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: especially - they should be checked for any region-specific aspects
14:26:14 <olyerickson> We've found core business vocab interesting, and will be looking at location at people as well
14:26:20 <George> q?
14:26:58 <olyerickson> ADMS is harder to figure out application scope. I get DCAT (obviously), I don't quite get use cases for ADMS
14:27:41 <olyerickson> Could PhilA elaborate on ADMS use case (or two)
14:27:53 <DaveReynolds> sandro: asks about timeline guidance for reviewing the vocabs 
14:28:06 <bhyland> Note - ADMC Working Group list, see
14:28:12 <bhyland> s/ADMC/ADMS
14:28:32 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: targeting completion 1 week on Friday
14:29:16 <PhilA2> -> ADMS
14:29:24 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Aiming that ADMS 1.0 becomes FPWD as is because it is already being implemented. So early identification of major issues would be important.
14:30:31 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Feels that FPWD should separate core model from implementation guidance, which are merged in ADMS 0.9/1.0
14:30:46 <Zakim> -deirdrelee
14:30:51 <Zakim> + +1.443.569.aadd
14:30:51 <bhyland> @PhilA, should we be looking at section 5.2 ADMS Core Elements in
14:30:55 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: Some issues around text v. strings and flagging of machine translation
14:31:07 <DanG> This problem was solved in ISO/IEC 19773
14:31:12 <ZacharyWhitley> ZacharyWhitley has joined #gld
14:31:52 <fadmaa> I am happy to write a comment to the ADMS 
14:31:53 <DanG> Sorry 19773 is called Metadata Modules
14:31:55 <bhyland> q+
14:32:11 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: In particular some of the implementation guide is Europe specific
14:32:13 <George> ack bhyland 
14:32:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:33:14 <PhilA2>
14:33:38 <PhilA2> ADMS Namespace doc
14:35:27 <PhilA2> Joinup
14:36:25 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: [Clarifying ADMS use cases ...] Joinup is an example use. It provides "semantic assets" - includes vocabularies, code lists, standards. Provides discovery portal for public sector employees to find such assets.
14:37:16 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: ADMS a vocab for describing these assets. Such an asset is different from a dataset.
14:37:47 <PhilA2> RADion UML
14:38:03 <George> q?
14:38:55 <olyerickson> PhilA this actually is helpful...thanks...
14:39:17 <olyerickson> Yes
14:39:23 <George> ack
14:39:28 <George> ack DaveReynolds 
14:39:28 <Zakim> DaveReynolds, you wanted to ask about registry v. repository
14:39:59 <olyerickson> PhilA described some  very futurey concepts IMHO...
14:40:04 <DanG> why is geography separated from SKOS concept scheme and concepts?
14:40:54 <Zakim> -sandro
14:41:15 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: is intended to have a registry aspect, has some notion of status.
14:41:25 <DanG> DanG has left #gld
14:42:36 <DanG> DanG has joined #gld
14:42:37 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: but doesn't have a notion of endorsement by a particular community
14:43:15 <George> q?
14:44:01 <DaveReynolds> DanG: asks why geographic coverage is separated from SKOS concept schemes. Typically geo areas are concept schemes and should be handled uniformly.
14:45:06 <olyerickson> I need DanG to give an example
14:45:12 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: previously had a notion of "domain". Could generalize to allow SKOS concepts to be used there.
14:45:18 <gatemezi> In Geonames, codes are skos:Concept
14:46:46 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: question to group, is it OK to publish as FPWD before sorting issues such as uniform use of concept schemes.
14:47:13 <gatemezi> link Geonames:
14:47:25 <DaveReynolds> DanG: preference, if group agrees then make changes first before FPWD publication.
14:47:57 <George> q?
14:48:13 <olyerickson> request that DanG elaborate on these issues in "ISSUES"
14:49:38 <DaveReynolds> DanG: points out ISO 19773 has a approach to data types for multi-text, multi-string, multi-data. Type includes both datum and additional information (e.g. language, cultural identifiers). 
14:49:49 <DaveReynolds> s/has a/has an/
14:50:53 <olyerickson> Thanks!
14:51:05 <DaveReynolds> george: suggests capturing these on issues list
14:52:48 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: [Clarifying relationship of OSS vocab to DOAP] Interest is from UK and Spanish gov. If GLD feels it is relevant it *could* could to encompass that as well. In RADion there is a link to project which is doap:Project.
14:53:37 <Zakim> - +
14:54:01 <bhyland> q+
14:54:01 <George> q?
14:54:07 <George> ack bhyland 
14:54:10 <olyerickson> ;)
14:54:11 <George> ack bhyland 
14:54:58 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: reluctant to to cover OSS area as well, seems beyond GLD charter. 
14:55:02 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: agreed
14:55:56 <olyerickson> "GLD recommends stakeholder consider any and all vocabularies of potential interest, now and in the future..."
14:56:43 <olyerickson> Thanks PhilA!
14:56:44 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: appreciates GLD taking on the vocabs that it is adopting
14:57:03 <tinagheen> tinagheen has joined #gld
14:57:54 <DaveReynolds> topic: DCAT
14:58:06 <fadmaa> Zakim, unmute me 
14:58:06 <Zakim> fadmaa should no longer be muted
14:59:02 <bhyland> Action-37
14:59:22 <bhyland> We're all looking at:
14:59:27 <bhyland> (or should be ..)
14:59:47 <DaveReynolds> fadmaa: issues 2,3 are easy and should be able to get consensus. Issue 9 is much the same as 7 and 8.
15:00:32 <DaveReynolds> olyerickson: issue 2,3 trivial things left to close off.
15:02:44 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: some issues are raised but not necessarily accept as issues to be addressed (i.e. OPEN)
15:02:46 <George> q?
15:02:53 <DaveReynolds> s/accept/accepted/
15:03:38 <DaveReynolds> olyerickson: issue 2 resulted in dct:language being added (so solved?)
15:04:15 <bhyland> @George, perhaps you should move some of these to OPEN status and some to CLOSED if they've been addressed, with comment …
15:04:55 <DaveReynolds> george: trying to get clarify on what the actual issue is so can be clear on what are solved, what are unclear, what area ctionable.
15:05:02 <DaveReynolds> s/area /are a/
15:05:47 <DaveReynolds> olyerickson: issue 2 - added dct:language at both levels
15:06:24 <DaveReynolds> olyerickson: issue 3 - about time/date format, list agreed to prefer xsd:dateTime, but stakeholders wanted other forms, discussion still open
15:07:06 <DaveReynolds> action: olyerickson to annotate and update issues 2, 3 on tracker
15:07:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Annotate and update issues 2, 3 on tracker [on John Erickson - due 2012-03-22].
15:07:37 <PhilA2> I'll make a proposal by mail to put ISSUE-3 to bed - I don't think it's a big issue and we know how to handle it
15:08:31 <DaveReynolds> fadmaa: question is whether dct:Distribution needed (ans: yes), are subsclasses needed (may not be fully representative)
15:09:09 <DaveReynolds> fadmaa: want to differentiate between direct download links and web pages which eventually lead to download
15:09:51 <fadmaa>
15:10:12 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
15:10:15 <PhilA2> George: Is that clearer, John?
15:10:21 <PhilA2> olyerickson: Yes, that helps
15:10:57 <PhilA2> George: So it looks like we can open actions 7, 8 and 9 and then come to a resolution?
15:11:29 <PhilA2> olyerickson: I think we need to create actions on those of us owning DCAT and come up with a specific alternative if that can be done
15:11:40 <PhilA2> ... it's a raesonable issue that Martin is raising
15:11:52 <PhilA2> ... we need to put something concrete before the GLD WG
15:12:04 <gatemezi> + 1 to Fadi point
15:12:08 <PhilA2> fadmaa: So we should put specific proposals on the ML?
15:12:13 <martin> +1
15:12:19 <PhilA2> George: That sounds good - it can go on next weeks agenda
15:12:24 <bhyland> +1
15:12:26 <PhilA2> scribe: PhilA2
15:12:36 <boris> +1 to mark issues as open
15:12:59 <PhilA2> action: Fadi Maali to address issues 7 - 9 on the mailing list
15:12:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Maali to address issues 7 - 9 on the mailing list [on Fadi Maali - due 2012-03-22].
15:13:48 <PhilA2> topic: People
15:13:54 <fadmaa> Zakim, mute me
15:13:54 <Zakim> fadmaa should now be muted
15:15:10 <George> PhilA2: patronymic name
15:15:31 <George> ... include Titles, Prefixes, etc.?
15:15:55 <George> ... no rules - but pushed for patronymic names
15:16:09 <George> ... and 'alternative' name (which isn't foaf:nick)
15:16:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:16:32 <DaveReynolds> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
15:16:32 <Zakim> +DaveReynolds; got it
15:16:44 <olyerickson> +1 to formal alternativeName... alternative right now is skos:prefLabel, skos:altLabel 
15:17:05 <PhilA2> George: Let's look at Best Prac for vocabulary selection
15:17:16 <PhilA2> ... I noticed some mention of accidental subsumption
15:17:34 <PhilA2> ... does anyone else think this is a useful addition to the doc?
15:18:14 <PhilA2> George: If my hospital subject were to use a vCard address, it would be subsumed as a type vCard object
15:18:30 <PhilA2> ... this presents itself as a problem to possible users
15:18:42 <PhilA2> George: LD COmmunity is not very oriented towards this effect
15:18:54 <boris> q+
15:19:15 <DaveReynolds> scribe: DaveReynolds
15:19:40 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: frequently find want to reuse a property but domain/range constraints on it cause unintended consequences
15:20:33 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: some LD users work round that by separating inferences from direct assertions, pragmatics
15:20:34 <George> ack boris 
15:20:55 <olyerickson> Linked Data is not about creating a perfect organization of knowledge
15:21:05 <DaveReynolds> boris: worth mentioning in Best Practice vocab section
15:22:16 <bhyland> Sounds like we need a good glossary :-)
15:22:20 <DaveReynolds> george: also some need for more clarity of description on "products" in the procurement section, e.g. Linked Data Server
15:22:21 <boris> yes
15:22:24 <bhyland> nice segway
15:22:32 <Mike_Pendleton> agreed George
15:22:50 <bhyland> Topic: LD Glossary see
15:23:39 <PhilA2> q+ to talk about a linked data server
15:23:43 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: would like Best Practices etc to link to glossary. New entries, improved descriptions welcome.
15:24:10 <George> ack PhilA2 
15:24:16 <George> ack PhilA2 
15:24:50 <olyerickson> PhilA mentions LD Patterns WG
15:24:52 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: asks if group is aware of Linked Data platform, now "patterns", working group
15:25:08 <George> q?
15:25:13 <George> ack PhilA
15:25:13 <Zakim> PhilA, you wanted to talk about a linked data server
15:25:29 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: relevant to glossary definition of e.g. Linked Data Server
15:26:25 <boris>
15:26:30 <PhilA2> -> Using Open data
15:27:23 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: workshop in June in Brussels - about *using* open data
15:27:54 <DaveReynolds> PhilA2: special focus on policy modelling
15:27:57 <bhyland> q+
15:28:21 <George> ack bhyland 
15:29:34 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: asks US members to check travel possibilities (for TPAC?)
15:30:20 <DaveReynolds> bhyland: to check of a GLD f2f is possible during TPAC
15:30:41 <gatemezi> thanks!
15:30:56 <Zakim> -Mike_P
15:31:01 <PhilA2> regrets for next week
15:31:09 <Zakim> -olyerickson
15:31:13 <DaveReynolds> RRSAgent, set logs world-visible
15:31:14 <Zakim> -tinagheen
15:31:14 <Zakim> -bhyland
15:31:15 <Zakim> -fadmaa
15:31:15 <Zakim> -PhilA2
15:31:16 <Zakim> -DanG
15:31:19 <Zakim> - +1.443.569.aadd
15:31:21 <Zakim> -martin
15:31:21 <DaveReynolds> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:31:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate DaveReynolds
15:31:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:31:27 <Zakim> -Boris
15:31:30 <Zakim> -lbermudez
15:31:31 <Zakim> -gatemezi
15:31:32 <PhilA2> PhilA2 has left #gld
15:31:39 <Zakim> -George_Thomas