19:59:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
19:59:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-irc
19:59:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:59:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
19:59:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
19:59:50 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:59:51 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
19:59:51 <trackbot> Date: 15 December 2011
20:00:05 <ericm> ericm has joined #svg
20:01:19 <shepazu> agenda+ F2F with CSS WG
20:01:33 <shepazu> agenda+ demo night in Sydney
20:01:40 <shepazu> agenda+ charter
20:03:13 <heycam> Zakim, this is SVG
20:03:13 <Zakim> sorry, heycam, I do not see a conference named 'SVG' in progress or scheduled at this time
20:03:55 <heycam> Zakim, code?
20:03:55 <Zakim> sorry, heycam, I don't know what conference this is
20:06:12 <ed> trackbot, end telcon
20:06:12 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:06:12 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
20:06:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:06:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html trackbot
20:06:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:06:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
20:07:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:07:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-irc
20:07:53 <vhardy> vhardy has joined #svg
20:07:54 <ChrisL> zakim, code?
20:07:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ChrisL
20:08:00 <Tav> On one page it does say 20:00 GMT.
20:08:02 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:07Z has now started
20:08:11 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:08:24 <ChrisL> still no booking for the call?
20:08:32 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aaaa
20:08:33 <ChrisL> zakim, this will be svg
20:08:34 <Zakim> ok, ChrisL, I see Team_(svg)20:07Z already started
20:08:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:08:42 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
20:08:42 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:08:48 <vhardy> Zakim, +1.415.832.aaaa is me
20:08:48 <Zakim> +vhardy; got it
20:08:52 <Zakim> +Tav
20:09:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:09:10 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:09:10 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:09:14 <Zakim> +ericm
20:09:15 <cyril|away> cyril|away has joined #svg
20:09:15 <ChrisL> flights booked for australia
20:09:48 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
20:10:18 <ed> 20:00-21:30Z
20:10:18 <ed> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)
20:11:02 <cabanier> cabanier has joined #svg
20:11:11 <cyril|away> Zakim, what is the code?
20:11:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cyril|away
20:11:17 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:11:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisL, vhardy, heycam, Tav, ed, ericm, Doug_Schepers
20:11:40 <Zakim> +cyril
20:11:45 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0107.html
20:12:09 <ed> Zakim, who's here?
20:12:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisL, vhardy, heycam, Tav, ed, ericm, Doug_Schepers, cyril
20:12:20 <cabanier> what is the passcode?
20:12:28 <ed> cabanier: 26631
20:12:50 <cabanier> i says that the conference is full
20:13:14 <Zakim> -ChrisL
20:13:16 <Zakim> -heycam
20:13:18 <Zakim> -ericm
20:13:19 <Zakim> -Tav
20:13:19 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
20:13:21 <Zakim> -vhardy
20:13:25 <Zakim> -ed
20:13:26 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:07Z has ended
20:13:28 <Zakim> Attendees were ChrisL, [IPcaller], heycam, vhardy, Tav, ed, ericm, Doug_Schepers, cyril
20:13:33 <ed> Zakim, room for 12?
20:13:34 <Zakim> ok, ed; conference Team_(svg)20:13Z scheduled with code 26633 (CONF3) for 60 minutes until 2113Z
20:14:06 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:13Z has now started
20:14:13 <Zakim> +cyril
20:14:14 <Zakim> +Tav
20:14:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:14:30 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
20:14:30 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:14:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:14:44 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:14:44 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:14:58 <Zakim> +vhardy
20:15:07 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0107.html
20:15:47 <vhardy> Please note the bridge has changed to 26633 (_not_ 26631 anymore)
20:15:52 <thorton> thorton has joined #svg
20:16:23 <Zakim> +ericm
20:16:27 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
20:16:28 <heycam> Scribe: Cameron
20:16:31 <heycam> ScribeNick: heycam
20:16:42 <heycam> Topic: F2F with CSS
20:16:48 <heycam> VH: there's a UEFA championship happening in that week
20:16:52 <heycam> … so it's difficult to book travel/hotels
20:16:58 <heycam> … we've updated the page with hotel information and pricing
20:17:15 <heycam> … it's not too bad, there are hotels 60-170
20:17:21 <heycam> … one of the worries is about travel
20:17:27 <heycam> … we sent a questionnaire to the CSS WG
20:17:47 <heycam> … wasn't sure if CSS/SVG should use the same questionnaire
20:17:53 <Zakim> + +1.206.675.aaaa
20:18:20 <ChrisL> zakim, code?
20:18:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 26633 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ChrisL
20:18:25 <heycam> … otherwise we could just decide that we want to go one particular way in the group
20:18:25 <cabanier> Zakim, +1.206.675.aaa is me
20:18:25 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
20:18:38 <heycam> … the CSS WG is leaning towards changing the date of the meeting, at the same location
20:19:03 <ChrisL> the poll shows just as many people wanting to change the location and keep the date
20:19:10 <heycam> … we (hosts) would also prefer to keep the same location
20:19:19 <heycam> … but we could also host in Hamburg on the same dates
20:19:39 <Zakim> +ChrisL
20:20:51 <heycam> CL: can't seem to edit the CSS WG's questionnaire to allow SVG people to respond to it
20:21:19 <heycam> CM: are there specific dates if we keep the same location?
20:21:27 <heycam> VH: probably before. after I can't.
20:21:31 <ChrisL> change the location and keep the same dates? has 8 yes and 5 yes-and-prefer
20:21:36 <heycam> CM: same for me
20:21:50 <heycam> VH: probably the better option is to do it just one week before, in the same place, or we move it
20:21:57 <heycam> CL: I can't do it one week before, I'm attending a conference
20:22:09 <ChrisL> libre graphics s the week before
20:22:16 <heycam> VH: some other CSS people can't do it the week before
20:22:19 <ChrisL> ac meeting is the week after
20:23:08 <heycam> CL: looking at the results so far from CSS, the third option of "change the location keep the date" seems to be the strongest option
20:23:24 <vhardy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32061/css-2012-05/results
20:25:21 <heycam> CM: I can't do week after
20:25:23 <heycam> RC: I have no constraints
20:25:50 <heycam> VH: we need Chris, and some of the other CSS people who can't make it the week before
20:26:42 <heycam> … I will give an update early January about the F2F
20:27:12 <cabanier> * Adobe office in Hamburg is very nice
20:27:26 <heycam> ACTION: Vincent to email CSS WG to say that the SVG WG prefers to move the location and keep the same date
20:27:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3185 - Email CSS WG to say that the SVG WG prefers to move the location and keep the same date [on Vincent Hardy - due 2011-12-22].
20:27:40 <Zakim> -vhardy
20:27:49 <heycam> Topic: telcon schedule with holidays
20:28:09 <heycam> ED: the four next telcons scheduled
20:28:10 <ed> 22 Dec, 29 Dec, 5 Jan, 12 Jan
20:29:08 <ChrisL> do we have a f2f agenda for preparation over the holidays?
20:29:31 <heycam> CC: I cannot make 29 Dec
20:29:48 <heycam> ED: I can make 22 Dec and 5 Jan
20:30:06 <heycam> DS: I might be able to make 5 Jan, not sure
20:30:51 <heycam> ED: so let's cancel 29 Dec, and 12 Jan
20:31:12 <heycam> … let's keep 22 Dec and 5 Jan on
20:31:55 <ChrisL> my regrets for 22 Dec and 5 Jan
20:32:51 <ed> ACTION: ed to send a reminder to the list about the telcon schedule (cancelling 29 dec, 12 jan)
20:32:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3186 - Send a reminder to the list about the telcon schedule (cancelling 29 dec, 12 jan) [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-12-22].
20:33:30 <heycam> Topic: mini-TPAC
20:33:34 <shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-scriptlib/2011Nov/0000.html
20:33:55 <heycam> DS: there was a suggestion from some of the chairs that several groups get together and colocate a meeting in Silicon Valley
20:34:19 <heycam> … at least one chair pushed back on that, saying their group needed more lead time to organise that
20:34:30 <heycam> … Mike Smith said there was still interest in coordinating script library people
20:34:35 <heycam> … so there's an idea of doing it in either March or May
20:34:47 <heycam> … if a WG doesn't want to show up, it doesn't have to, but we might want to coordinate informally
20:34:57 <heycam> … there's value in us getting together with the script library folks
20:35:21 <heycam> TB: what do you mean by script libraries?
20:35:40 <heycam> DS: things like jQuery, dojo, d3, raphael. not sure who exactly who would show up
20:35:45 <heycam> … but definitely the jQuery folks would
20:36:06 <heycam> … there's a lot of interest from the script librarians about the Component Model, and I think it would be beneficial to be in the same room to talk about these things
20:36:10 <heycam> … at TPAC we ran out of time
20:36:36 <heycam> … I think it would be good for the SVG WG to be in there
20:37:20 <heycam> CM: what's the proposed duration of the mini TPAC?
20:37:33 <heycam> DS: let's follow up on the mailing list
20:39:29 <heycam> Topic: Sydney F2F
20:39:37 <shepazu> http://svgsocial.eventbrite.com/
20:40:17 <heycam> DS: Chris you may be surprised to see you're on the agenda here
20:40:24 <heycam> CL: ok, that's fine
20:40:58 <heycam> DS: I thought it would be a good idea to meet up with web developers
20:41:32 <heycam> … we may have 50-60 people signed up to attend
20:41:35 <heycam> … it is a free event
20:41:44 <heycam> … I figure each of us who is interested can do a demo
20:41:49 <heycam> … we might have a short panel session
20:42:20 <heycam> … Dmitri Baranovsky might be interested in presenting too
20:42:48 <heycam> CM: that's the Thursday night
20:42:50 <heycam> DS: yes
20:42:53 <heycam> … location TBA
20:43:43 <heycam> … we should think about what we should present to them
20:43:51 <heycam> … I was thinking of doing something brief on integrating SVG and HTML
20:44:01 <heycam> … maybe Erik you can do some SVG Wow stuff
20:45:20 <shepazu> agenda?
20:45:25 <heycam> Topic: charter
20:45:30 <heycam> CL: the charter is expected to go out to the AC this week
20:45:35 <heycam> s/out/back out/
20:46:02 <ChrisL> includes requessted edits on SVG DOM refactoring from RIM and Opera
20:48:40 <heycam> Topic: FOSDEM
20:48:46 <thorton> thorton has joined #svg
20:48:55 <ChrisL> http://fosdem.org/2012/
20:48:57 <heycam> CL: I've put in a talk to FOSDEM at the beginning of February at the Colour Management session
20:49:07 <heycam> … I'll be talking about the SVG2 Colour chapter, and getting feedback from people there
20:49:14 <heycam> s/Colour chapter/Color chapter/
20:49:19 <ChrisL> talk is about color management in svg2. i have provisional acceptance
20:49:40 <heycam> Topic: SVG2 spec editing status
20:49:41 <ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2011OctDec/0082.html
20:50:05 <heycam> CL: I read through the document you (Tav) wrote
20:50:12 <heycam> … I don't like cid on portions of something
20:50:31 <heycam> … it should link to an outermost container for a property definition (or whatever)
20:50:46 <heycam> … if you're using a <dl> as a block container I'd rather see the id on the <dl> itself
20:50:55 <heycam> … I like the way you've laid it out, the markup is much better
20:51:03 <heycam> … I agree we should do properties and attributes in a similar way if possible
20:51:15 <heycam> … but it would be good to have it styled the same way as in CSS specs, for properties
20:53:33 <heycam> CC: there are two versions of attribute definitions
20:53:42 <heycam> … I agree with the change proposed by Tav (the linear gradient one)
20:53:54 <cyril> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
20:53:55 <ChrisL> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/pservers.html#LinearGradients
20:55:45 <heycam> ACTION: Tav to ask Vincent for feedback on the spec styling
20:55:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3187 - Ask Vincent for feedback on the spec styling [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-12-22].
20:56:30 <heycam> Topic: SVG2 requirements, continued
20:57:04 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Input#Advanced_pattern_methods
20:57:12 <Zakim> -Tav
20:57:41 <heycam> CC: next is Advanced Pattern Methods
20:57:48 <Zakim> +Tav
20:59:55 <heycam> CM: Olaf's dot point here is brief
21:00:18 <ChrisL> There was a call for halftone screening as well, could be done as a pattern
21:00:21 <heycam> … but I remember he mentioned somewhere else about different mathetmatical tiling methods
21:00:28 <heycam> … there are 12 of them? I can't remember the name.
21:00:40 <heycam> TB: 13 I think. symmetries. Inkscape supports those.
21:01:05 <heycam> … another request was for half toning
21:01:33 <heycam> RC: half toning is not really a pattern
21:01:40 <heycam> TB: might make more sense in filters
21:02:16 <heycam> RC: what is the use case for half toning? print or on screen?
21:02:20 <heycam> TB: on screen
21:02:21 <Tav> http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Trace.html
21:03:04 <heycam> TB: the star is the pattern
21:03:16 <heycam> … you can change the size, colour, based on the colour underneath
21:03:35 <heycam> … this actually uses <use>
21:04:00 <heycam> RC: programmatically in inkscape itself? not in the language?
21:04:01 <heycam> TB: yes
21:04:38 <heycam> RC: for half toning, maybe you could have a filter that takes a spot function
21:04:53 <heycam> … you would feed in the value of the colour, typically you have four spot functions (CMYK)
21:05:05 <heycam> … you fill in the value of the colour and out comes the region of the cell you will paint
21:05:14 <heycam> … half toning is like cells with pixels in them
21:05:25 <heycam> … you tile that, and feed in the colour values into the spot function
21:05:37 <ChrisL> http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/06/custom-halftone-dots.html
21:07:23 <heycam> http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles.html
21:07:40 <ChrisL> the dot screens are at different angles because they are opaque 9for ink) but that gives rosette pattersn where the dots form clusters
21:07:50 <ChrisL> s/9f/(f
21:07:58 <heycam> TB: for the tiling, you take a single object or group and inkscape knows the size of it
21:08:11 <ed> http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.html
21:08:13 <heycam> … looking at http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Tiles-Symmetries.html
21:08:22 <heycam> … it just computes the position of where to put the tiles
21:08:34 <ChrisL> rosettes, see http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lNzlqVMcIj8/Si6ZsNCWLaI/AAAAAAAAAuw/4TnbKSrvtWM/s1600/Birthday+Bitmapped.jpg
21:08:52 <heycam> … in the first example, the bounding box extends outside the tiling area, so you get overlap
21:09:06 <heycam> … in inkscape you can adjust the overlap, the "pattern size"
21:09:11 <heycam> CM: that sets a clip?
21:09:15 <heycam> TB: the pattern can extend outside
21:09:29 <heycam> … if you want to pattern something on a rectangular grid, you can choose to do it on a grid smaller than the size of the bounding box
21:09:32 <heycam> … and then you get overlaps
21:09:50 <cyril> rosettes: http://qualityinprint.blogspot.com/2009/04/rosettes-everything-you-didnt-realize.html
21:09:56 <heycam> … in some cases, when you're doing hexagonal tiling, if you are not careful you will get content outside the tiling area and you'll get overlaps
21:10:08 <heycam> … it would be fairly straightforward to specify, not sure how useful it is
21:10:26 <heycam> … inkscape not only can do those tiling symmetries, see the following pages
21:10:37 <heycam> … you can add random shifts, shrink or expand the tiles
21:10:53 <heycam> CC: is there anything in common with the Tiling & Layering work in the Mapping TF?
21:11:20 <heycam> CL: not really, that's more for multi resolution images
21:11:32 <heycam> … where you're automatically tiling where they butt together, producing an image by slicing it into multiple pieces
21:11:35 <heycam> … it's not a repeating pattern
21:11:42 <heycam> TB: one place where this might be useful is in Mapping
21:11:46 <ChrisL> see http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/
21:11:49 <heycam> … if you want a pattern to show a swamp, the density say
21:12:04 <heycam> … if you could turn a gradient into a density map, add a bit of randomness
21:12:08 <ChrisL> in particular http://www.w3.org/Submission/2011/SUBM-SVGTL-20110607/#Tiling
21:12:20 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2310
21:12:21 <heycam> CC: the next requirement on the page is also about advanced patterns
21:12:40 <cyril> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2010Feb/0082.html
21:13:12 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/2010/03/01-svg-minutes.html#item06
21:13:32 <heycam> ED: my email is not something as advanced as these tiling symmetries
21:13:42 <heycam> … more about tightening up existing patterns
21:14:24 <heycam> CC: does it make sense to merge these two entries?
21:14:28 <heycam> CL: I think so
21:14:43 <heycam> TB: I think they're different
21:14:50 <heycam> … Erik's is clarification/corrections to the spec
21:14:56 <heycam> … this current requirement is a new feature
21:14:59 <heycam> CC: I won't merge then
21:15:25 <heycam> CM: do you have a sense Tav in how useful these tiling symmetries might be?
21:15:34 <heycam> TB: not sure it's that useful to include the symmetries
21:15:41 <heycam> … including screening might be nice, though
21:15:59 <heycam> … something that can simulate half toning or screening
21:16:53 <heycam> CM: I'd like to see some brief writeup before accepting it
21:17:22 <heycam> ACTION: Tav to write up a brief summary of what a half toning feature would look like
21:17:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3188 - Write up a brief summary of what a half toning feature would look like [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-12-22].
21:18:01 <heycam> ACTION: Tav to get clarification from Olaf on what his advanced pattern request is
21:18:01 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3189 - Get clarification from Olaf on what his advanced pattern request is [on Tavmjong Bah - due 2011-12-22].
21:18:37 <Zakim> -ChrisL
21:22:33 <cyril> RRSAgent, pointer please
21:22:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-irc#T21-22-33
21:23:11 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Requirements_Mailing_List_Feedback#Video.2Faudio_on_demand
21:23:17 <heycam> ED: next one is "Video/Audio on Demand"
21:23:35 <heycam> ED: we did resolve at TPAC to have video and audio elements simliar to HTML5, or with the same functionality
21:24:21 <ChrisL> same dom or same markup?
21:24:36 <heycam> CC: we concluded that we wanted to have the HTML5 video/audio elements, unmodified
21:24:38 <ChrisL> because the svg tiny 1.2 ones have better markup but sucky dom
21:24:45 <ChrisL> sigh
21:24:57 <ChrisL> so, no time containers on audio and video then
21:25:09 <heycam> CM: did you discuss issues of namespaces, or overlap between HTML/SVG elements?
21:25:19 <heycam> CC: I think it was going to be in the SVG namespace
21:25:23 <cyril> http://www.w3.org/2011/11/04-svg-minutes.html#item12
21:26:04 <cyril> "RESOLUTION: SVG 2 will have a video element in SVG namespace with the same characteristics as the HTML 5 video element"
21:26:35 <heycam> ED: "same characteristics" doesn't necessarily mean there are no differences
21:26:47 <heycam> RC: this is for SVG that's not running in a browser?
21:26:52 <heycam> … because you don't have foreignObject?
21:27:28 <shepazu> q+
21:27:29 <heycam> CM: in the minutes the question was raised about foreignObject, how it would be different
21:27:38 <heycam> … and Jen said that IE doesn't do foreignObject
21:28:25 <heycam> DS: just because we're having at least the same features as HTML's video element doesn't mean we can't go beyond that, right?
21:28:37 <heycam> CC: I agree with you but I don't think that's what the people from the Media TF wanted
21:28:41 <heycam> … they wanted a single version of the element
21:28:52 <heycam> … they wanted us to modify the HTML5 video element if we wanted additional features
21:28:58 <heycam> … but I shouldn't speak in their stead
21:29:15 <heycam> DS: ultimately the video element is going to have to change at some point, so we might handle it then
21:30:59 <shepazu> s/so we might handle it then/so we should keep current on any changes… we want it full-featured, but only a single underlying codebase/
21:31:11 <heycam> ED: I think what Olaf is asking for is basically the audio/video controls, not everything else
21:32:02 <ed> s/for is basically/for is basically the controls attribute on/
21:32:34 <heycam> CM: olaf's request then doesn't contradict with our plans for audio/video
21:33:55 <Zakim> -ericm
21:33:58 <Zakim> -ed
21:34:00 <Zakim> -cabanier
21:34:01 <Zakim> -heycam
21:34:02 <Zakim> -Tav
21:34:16 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
21:34:26 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:34:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:35:10 <heycam> Chair: Erik
21:35:15 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:35:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/12/15-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:39:16 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, cyril, in Team_(svg)20:13Z
21:39:20 <Zakim> Team_(svg)20:13Z has ended
21:39:21 <Zakim> Attendees were cyril, Tav, [IPcaller], heycam, ed, vhardy, ericm, Doug_Schepers, +1.206.675.aaaa, cabanier, ChrisL
22:11:22 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #svg