16:34:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
16:34:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/23-dnt-irc
16:35:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dnt
16:35:12 <aleecia> Zakim, this will be dnt
16:35:12 <Zakim> ok, aleecia; I see T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
16:35:18 <aleecia> chair is aleecia
16:35:35 <npdoty> s/chair is/chair:/
16:35:59 <aleecia> good morning, Nick. Thank you!
16:37:06 <npdoty> rrsagent, make logs public
16:37:30 <aleecia> Changing the call sheet will help, I'll try to remember to do that
16:38:47 <aleecia> regrets+ Heather West, Jeffery Chester, Karl Dubost, Haakon Bratsberg
16:39:21 <aleecia> agenda+ Select scribe
16:39:54 <aleecia> agenda+ comments on minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-dnt-minutes
16:40:17 <aleecia> agenda+ action items: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/
16:40:31 <aleecia> agenda+ Next f2f meeting, further details & planning status
16:40:41 <aleecia> agenda+ Tracking Selection Lists, update on status
16:40:51 <aleecia> agenda+ Coming soon: writing assignments for open issues
16:41:09 <aleecia> agenda+ Issue-19: Data collection / Data use (3rd party)
16:41:20 <aleecia> agenda+ Announce next meeting & adjourn
16:42:44 <aleecia> I think I have scribe syntax wrong here too. Should be scribenick: <name>?
16:44:04 <johnsimpson> johnsimpson has joined #dnt
16:50:37 <Zakim> T&S_Track(dnt)12:00PM has now started
16:50:44 <Zakim> +aleecia
16:50:55 <aleecia> zakim, please mute me
16:50:55 <Zakim> sorry, aleecia, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
16:52:34 <efelten> efelten has joined #dnt
16:56:36 <aleecia> zakim, who is on the call?
16:56:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see aleecia
16:57:54 <joanne> joanne has joined #DNT
16:58:22 <Zakim> +efelten
16:58:47 <Zakim> + +1.408.349.aaaa
16:58:54 <WileyS> WileyS has joined #DNT
16:59:00 <Zakim> + +49.431.98.aabb
16:59:09 <carmenb> carmenb has joined #dnt
16:59:13 <NinjaMarnau> NinjaMarnau has joined #dnt
16:59:21 <dsriedel> dsriedel has joined #dnt
16:59:26 <aleecia> zakim, aaaa is WileyS
16:59:26 <Zakim> +WileyS; got it
16:59:40 <Zakim> +johnsimpson
16:59:53 <aleecia> zakim, aabb is NinjaMarnau
16:59:53 <Zakim> +NinjaMarnau; got it
17:00:07 <aleecia> zakim, who is on the call?
17:00:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see aleecia, efelten, WileyS, NinjaMarnau, johnsimpson
17:00:22 <alex> alex has joined #dnt
17:00:26 <johnsimpson> zakim, mute me
17:00:26 <Zakim> johnsimpson should now be muted
17:00:27 <justin> justin has joined #dnt
17:00:33 <Zakim> + +1.206.369.aacc
17:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.207.619.aadd
17:00:38 <Zakim> + +1.609.981.aaee
17:00:43 <Zakim> + +1.202.629.aaff
17:00:44 <Zakim> +npdoty
17:00:46 <aleecia> scribenick is WileyS
17:00:47 <Zakim> +dsriedel
17:00:58 <npdoty> scribenick: WileyS
17:00:58 <tedleung> tedleung has joined #dnt
17:01:00 <dsriedel> zakim, mute me
17:01:00 <Zakim> dsriedel should now be muted
17:01:01 <sidstamm> sidstamm has joined #dnt
17:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.212.631.aagg
17:01:04 <tl> zakim aaee is tl
17:01:14 <Zakim> + +1.916.641.aahh
17:01:14 <jkaran> jkaran has joined #dnt
17:01:24 <WileyS> Allecia:  Good morning.  Small number of participants - expect a shorter call today.  Please identify your phone number with your IRC handle.
17:01:26 <npdoty> Zakim, aaee is tl
17:01:26 <Zakim> +tl; got it
17:01:26 <carmenb> i'm 202.629
17:01:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:01:27 <Zakim> +Justin
17:01:32 <npdoty> Zakim, aadd is dwainberg
17:01:32 <Zakim> +dwainberg; got it
17:01:32 <aleecia> zakim aadd is davidW
17:01:34 <WileyS> DavidW:  Unable to join IRC
17:01:51 <npdoty> Zakim, who's making noise?
17:01:51 <aleecia> next agendum
17:01:58 <aleecia> next agendum
17:01:59 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Please mute if you are not speaking (someone is obviously unable to hear this direction)
17:02:03 <Zakim> npdoty, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: aleecia (47%), NinjaMarnau (22%), [IPcaller] (49%)
17:02:03 <efelten> Zakim, aaff is carmenb
17:02:03 <Zakim> +carmenb; got it
17:02:04 <tedleung> Zakim 206.369.5622 is tedleung
17:02:06 <aleecia> close agendum 1
17:02:08 <WileyS> The quotes are from Shane :-)
17:02:17 <Zakim> + +1.206.619.aaii
17:02:24 <Zakim> + +1.917.349.aajj
17:02:27 <aleecia> agenda?
17:02:44 <tl> zakim, mute ipcaller
17:02:45 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Any comments on the notes from the last meeting?
17:02:49 <Zakim> +alex
17:02:50 <joanne> I'm 916.641
17:02:51 <Zakim> + +1.949.573.aakk
17:02:51 <Zakim> +[Mozilla]
17:02:52 <Zakim> [IPcaller] should now be muted
17:02:55 <WileyS> ... No comments - consider approved
17:02:57 <aleecia> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/actions/open
17:03:03 <WileyS> ... A couple of action items
17:03:04 <sidstamm> Zakim, Mozilla has sidstamm
17:03:04 <Zakim> +sidstamm; got it
17:03:10 <Zakim> +Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:03:12 <WileyS> ... Carl could not make the call.
17:03:23 <efelten> Zakim, aahh is joanne
17:03:23 <Zakim> +joanne; got it
17:03:32 <Zakim> + +1.805.418.aall
17:03:40 <tl> s/Carl/Karl
17:03:43 <Frank> Frank has joined #dnt
17:03:49 <vincent> vincent has joined #dnt
17:04:10 <Lia> Lia has joined #dnt
17:04:16 <alex> Zakim, mute me
17:04:16 <Zakim> alex should now be muted
17:04:31 <Zakim> + +1.647.274.aamm
17:04:49 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Set for 2 weeks out (Action-31)
17:05:17 <WileyS> Action 34:  Jonathan and Tom have been working on this.  Could either of you comment on how much longer needed?
17:05:17 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 34
17:05:46 <WileyS> Tom:  Action-34 - Could have something ready by the end of this week
17:05:58 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Moving due date to Friday
17:06:00 <WileyS> Tom:  Okay
17:06:23 <jmayer> jmayer has joined #dnt
17:06:25 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Next Action-36 (Issue-95 related)
17:06:26 <BrianTs> BrianTs has joined #DNT
17:06:37 <Zakim> + +1.773.929.aann
17:06:50 <jmayer> Zakim, aann is jmayer
17:06:50 <Zakim> +jmayer; got it
17:06:53 <andyzei> andyzei has joined #dnt
17:07:18 <WileyS> Shane:  In draft to Tom
17:07:20 <npdoty> WileyS: action 31 will need to be delayed as I'm out all next week and there are a few of us working on the technical portion (postponed 2 weeks)
17:07:24 <WileyS> Tom:  Will have this out soon
17:07:46 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Providing 2 more days for Action-36 (Issue-95)
17:07:51 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:07:53 <aleecia> agenda?
17:08:04 <npdoty> Zakim, close agendum 2
17:08:09 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Action items completed
17:08:10 <npdoty> Zakim, close agendum 3
17:08:13 <BrianTs> Zakim, [Microsoft] has BrianTs
17:08:17 <Zakim> agendum 2, comments on minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/16-dnt-minutes, closed
17:08:18 <WileyS> ...Discussing next face-t0-face meeting
17:08:21 <Zakim> +BrianTs; got it
17:08:23 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 4
17:08:26 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:08:30 <Zakim> 3. action items: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/ [from aleecia]
17:08:35 <WileyS> ...Half-day on Tuesday, continuing on Wednesday and Thursday
17:08:36 <Zakim> agendum 3, action items: http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/, closed
17:08:40 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:08:42 <Zakim> 4. Next f2f meeting, further details & planning status [from aleecia]
17:08:42 <justin> Yes, that!
17:08:43 <WileyS> q+
17:08:44 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Next f2f meeting, further details & planning status" taken up [from aleecia]
17:08:47 <WileyS> +q
17:09:01 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
17:09:11 <WileyS> ...Looking at moving to half-day on Monday and full days Tuesday and Wednesday
17:09:29 <JC> JC has joined #DNT
17:09:35 <WileyS> ...Excellent host lined up.  Hotels - looking for a place near public transit in Belgium
17:09:55 <Zakim> + +1.650.862.aaoo
17:10:08 <WileyS> ...Expect to have meeting dates soon
17:10:21 <Zakim> +??P44
17:10:28 <WileyS> ...So everyone can setup airfare.  For hotels, any hotel near the railline should be fine
17:10:49 <WileyS> ...will try to provide several hotel options for different budget ranges
17:10:53 <eberkower> eberkower has joined #dnt
17:11:07 <aleecia> q?
17:11:11 <aleecia> ack WileyS
17:11:22 <Zakim> + +1.425.281.aapp
17:11:47 <Zakim> + +1.646.654.aaqq
17:11:51 <WileyS> Shane:  If Monday is half-day we'll need to travel on Sunday
17:12:13 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Understood, we're look at that in trying to balance all of the groups needs - priority is to editor participation
17:12:16 <npdoty> -> http://www.cpdpconferences.org/, the concurrent privacy conference in Brussels
17:12:37 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Competing local Privacy Conference the same week
17:13:12 <WileyS> Aleecia:  That's where we stand for now on the next f2f meeting
17:13:30 <WileyS> ...Next Agenda Item: Traffic Protection Lists
17:13:40 <WileyS> ...some of you may be suprised this back on the agenda
17:13:44 <ileana> ileana has joined #dnt
17:14:06 <tlr> tlr has joined #dnt
17:14:14 <npdoty> I wouldn't say "most" but it's definitely prominently present in the charter
17:14:15 <WileyS> ...history: initiated some of this discussion. No concensus here as of yet.  Remains in limbo
17:14:28 <WileyS> ...starting to work through issues on whether we're going to move forward on this or not.
17:15:18 <WileyS> ...have 2 proposed editors who will be starting a strawman proposal outside of the W3C space (GetHub?)
17:15:28 <npdoty> s/GetHub?/github/
17:15:29 <efelten> s/GetHub/github/
17:16:08 <WileyS> ...Github is a revision tracking tool - this is where they will start
17:16:17 <npdoty> https://github.com/ hosting of a distributed version control system
17:16:32 <WileyS> ...Two browser companies are going to move forward on this with or without the W3C
17:17:38 <aleecia> q?
17:17:39 <npdoty> "with or without the W3C" might be a little strong, just that editors from those companies have started drafting
17:18:07 <WileyS> direct quote
17:19:02 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Spending quality time over Thanksgiving reviewing the mailing list to make sure strings are appropriately attributed to the correct Issue number
17:19:32 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 6
17:19:32 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Coming soon: writing assignments for open issues" taken up [from aleecia]
17:19:49 <WileyS> ...Will be asking people to take writting assignments for Open and non-assigned Issues
17:20:32 <WileyS> ...Rough-cut, not expected to be perfect, complete in 2 weeks -- will then ask editors to take 2nd pass
17:20:59 <WileyS> ...A couple issues that I believe need to be taken on by the group (such as site-specific exemption)
17:21:33 <WileyS> ...start moving more quickly on items where we have sensible starting points immediately
17:21:44 <aleecia> q?
17:22:08 <WileyS> Aleecia:  We will also have a template as a starting point
17:22:29 <WileyS> ...overview, specifications language, examples
17:22:49 <WileyS> ...With nothing futher on that, moving right along to Issue-19
17:22:51 <npdoty> Zakim, take up agendum 7
17:22:51 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Issue-19: Data collection / Data use (3rd party)" taken up [from aleecia]
17:22:59 <WileyS> ...Around data collection and use by 3rd parties
17:23:11 <npdoty> issue-19?
17:23:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 -- Data collection / Data use (3rd party) -- raised
17:23:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/19
17:23:17 <WileyS> ...Spoken a great deal about 3rd parties
17:23:24 <Zakim> - +1.206.619.aaii
17:23:29 <jmayer> +q
17:23:38 <WileyS> ...How should a 3rd party respond to a DNT signal?
17:23:40 <tl> q+
17:23:47 <aleecia> ack jmayer
17:24:15 <aleecia> s/3rd parties/1st parties
17:24:35 <aleecia> ack tl
17:24:40 <WileyS> JMayer:  I think the sensible approach and has some buy-in around the table and start at 3rd parties can not collect or use anything and then back-into exceptions where collection/use is allowable
17:24:43 <WileyS> +q
17:25:03 <johnsimpson> +q
17:25:10 <WileyS> Tom:  Agrees with Jonathan.  Starting with a "do nothing" and then starting adding back in.
17:25:15 <johnsimpson> zakim, unmute me
17:25:15 <Zakim> johnsimpson should no longer be muted
17:25:40 <aleecia> ack WileyS
17:26:11 <tl> q+
17:26:19 <justin> How is that different from what jmayer said?
17:26:45 <npdoty> also sounded like agreement to me
17:26:56 <NinjaMarnau> q+
17:27:20 <npdoty> WileyS: rather than taking everything off from the start, the definition should be don't do anything except for certain categories
17:27:38 <npdoty> ... and then later describe specific exemptions for those categories in more detail
17:27:56 <rvaneijk> rvaneijk has joined #dnt
17:28:05 <npdoty> ... agree with jmayer and tl in some ways, just don't want it to start with "Don't collect full stop"
17:28:19 <WileyS> Thank you Nick
17:28:26 <tl> WileyS, i think we agree
17:28:34 <npdoty> ... something like 'don't collect except for operational and security purposes' and then later detail those
17:28:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
17:28:46 <jmayer> +q
17:29:04 <rvaneijk> Zakim, +[IPcaller.a] is rvaneijk
17:29:04 <Zakim> sorry, rvaneijk, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.a]'
17:29:13 <NinjaMarnau> I would suggest "must not" rather than "should not"
17:29:20 <Frank> Concerned about a broad don't do anything, except
17:29:24 <npdoty> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is rvaneijk
17:29:24 <Zakim> +rvaneijk; got it
17:29:31 <Frank> Think there are broad categories of things that will be allowed
17:29:32 <tl> we just quibble about how much work the initial drafter is meant to do
17:29:59 <Zakim> - +1.805.418.aall
17:30:49 <aleecia> q?
17:31:01 <aleecia> ack johnsimpson
17:31:01 <WileyS> Issue: We're not sure where the exceptions should be and ensure they are categorically captured in the base 3rd party prohibition statement.
17:31:06 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-103 - We're not sure where the exceptions should be and ensure they are categorically captured in the base 3rd party prohibition statement. ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/track/issues/103/edit .
17:31:27 <WileyS> JohnSimpson: There should be no 3rd party exceptions
17:31:49 <WileyS> Aleecia:  We can discuss this with each exceptions
17:32:10 <WileyS> ...Suspect you will find some of these to be reasonable.  If you don't support them be there to convey why you don't.
17:32:13 <NinjaMarnau> q-
17:32:19 <WileyS> JohnSimpson: He will do that.
17:32:33 <johnsimpson> zakim, mute me
17:32:35 <Zakim> johnsimpson should now be muted
17:32:53 <WileyS> DavidW: Likes the approach that Shane and Aleecia have landed upon.  What we're starting to do at this point we're defining "Tracking".
17:33:03 <aleecia> q?
17:33:12 <WileyS> ...Anxious to get to the specifics
17:33:25 <aleecia> ack tl
17:33:27 <Jules> Jules has joined #dnt
17:33:38 <WileyS> Aleecia:  We may agree to disagree in a few philosophical areas but looking forward to figuring this out
17:33:59 <Zakim> + +1.650.308.aarr
17:34:06 <WileyS> Tom: Largely agree with Shane and feels its more of an editorial task.  Generally feels we're in agreement
17:34:06 <Zakim> - +1.650.862.aaoo
17:34:09 <aleecia> ack jmayer
17:34:26 <Zakim> + +1.202.263.aass
17:34:56 <ksmith> ksmith has joined #DNT
17:35:55 <WileyS> jmayer: If what we're talking about is pulling exception list items then he's okay with it.
17:36:19 <efelten> Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:36:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see aleecia, efelten, WileyS, NinjaMarnau, johnsimpson (muted), +1.206.369.aacc, dwainberg, tl, carmenb, npdoty, dsriedel (muted), +1.212.631.aagg, joanne,
17:36:22 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller] (muted), Justin, +1.917.349.aajj, alex (muted), +1.949.573.aakk, [Mozilla], Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath, +1.647.274.aamm, jmayer, [Microsoft], [Microsoft.a],
17:36:27 <Zakim> ... ??P44, +1.425.281.aapp, +1.646.654.aaqq, rvaneijk, +1.650.308.aarr, +1.202.263.aass
17:36:29 <Zakim> [Mozilla] has sidstamm
17:36:29 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has BrianTs
17:36:32 <WileyS> WIleyS:  Not looking to pull a fast one and would position langauge such that categories are only referred to and the specifics must stand on their own in the detailed text.
17:36:36 <aleecia> q?
17:36:49 <WileyS> Aleecia:  I think we have a good starting point on 3rd parties.
17:37:31 <WileyS> ...I think a good starting point is to add this points to the Issue (forcable assigned to Shane)
17:37:55 <WileyS> All yours Jonathan.  :-)
17:38:35 <WileyS> Aleecia:  Thank you all for making the call.  Happy to keep it short before Thanksgiving.  Coming back to 1st parties on the next call - and trying to get that hammered out.
17:38:38 <Zakim> - +1.202.263.aass
17:38:40 <Zakim> -dwainberg
17:38:41 <Zakim> - +1.917.349.aajj
17:38:42 <Zakim> - +1.212.631.aagg
17:38:44 <Zakim> -efelten
17:38:45 <Zakim> -[Mozilla]
17:38:45 <npdoty> Happy Thanksgiving!
17:38:46 <Zakim> - +1.650.308.aarr
17:38:46 <Zakim> -joanne
17:38:46 <Zakim> -johnsimpson
17:38:47 <Zakim> - +1.647.274.aamm
17:38:49 <Zakim> - +1.206.369.aacc
17:38:50 <WileyS> ...Will work on exemptions in the meantime via the mailing list
17:38:51 <Zakim> -NinjaMarnau
17:38:53 <Zakim> - +1.646.654.aaqq
17:38:53 <sidstamm> thanks aleecia!
17:38:55 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:38:57 <Zakim> -jmayer
17:38:57 <aleecia> Thank you all for making the call
17:38:59 <Zakim> - +1.425.281.aapp
17:39:01 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
17:39:02 <ksmith> ksmith has left #DNT
17:39:03 <Zakim> -Justin
17:39:05 <Zakim> -carmenb
17:39:05 <johnsimpson> thanks
17:39:07 <Zakim> -Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:39:09 <Zakim> -alex
17:39:11 <Zakim> -rvaneijk
17:39:11 <johnsimpson> johnsimpson has left #dnt
17:39:14 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:39:15 <Zakim> -npdoty
17:39:16 <jmayer> ACTION: jmayer to Draft high-level text on third-party responsibilities by next Monday
17:39:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-38 - Draft high-level text on third-party responsibilities by next Monday [on Jonathan Mayer - due 2011-11-30].
17:39:22 <Zakim> - +1.949.573.aakk
17:39:24 <Zakim> -??P44
17:39:29 <dsriedel> \quit
17:39:39 <npdoty> trackbot, end meeting
17:39:39 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:39:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been aleecia, efelten, +1.408.349.aaaa, +49.431.98.aabb, WileyS, johnsimpson, NinjaMarnau, +1.206.369.aacc, +1.207.619.aadd, +1.609.981.aaee,
17:39:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:39:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/23-dnt-minutes.html trackbot
17:39:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:39:41 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/23-dnt-actions.rdf :
17:39:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: 34 to Jonathan and Tom have been working on this.  Could either of you comment on how much longer needed? [1]
17:39:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/23-dnt-irc#T17-05-17
17:39:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jmayer to Draft high-level text on third-party responsibilities by next Monday [2]
17:39:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/11/23-dnt-irc#T17-39-16
17:39:42 <Zakim> ... +1.202.629.aaff, npdoty, dsriedel, +1.212.631.aagg, +1.916.641.aahh, tl, [IPcaller], Justin, dwainberg, carmenb, +1.206.619.aaii, +1.917.349.aajj, alex, +1.949.573.aakk,
17:39:46 <Zakim> ... sidstamm, Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath, joanne, +1.805.418.aall, +1.647.274.aamm, +1.773.929.aann, jmayer, BrianTs, [Microsoft], +1.650.862.aaoo, +1.425.281.aapp,
17:39:48 <Zakim> ... +1.646.654.aaqq, rvaneijk, +1.650.308.aarr, +1.202.263.aass
17:39:50 <aleecia> thanks, Nick!