IRC log of htmlspeech on 2011-11-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:51:47 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-irc
16:51:57 [Zakim]
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16:52:15 [burn]
trackbot, start telcon
16:52:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:52:19 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
16:52:19 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
16:52:20 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Speech Incubator Group Teleconference
16:52:20 [trackbot]
Date: 17 November 2011
16:52:24 [burn]
zakim, this will be htmlspeech
16:52:25 [Zakim]
ok, burn; I see INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM scheduled to start 22 minutes ago
16:52:33 [burn]
Chair: Dan_Burnett
16:53:09 [burn]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0072.html
16:56:12 [Zakim]
INC_(HTMLSPEECH)11:30AM has now started
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+[IPcaller]
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+Milan_Young
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-[IPcaller]
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+[IPcaller]
16:57:36 [Milan]
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+Michael_Bodell
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16:59:56 [burn]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:59:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller], Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell
17:00:03 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
17:00:09 [smaug]
that is me
17:00:33 [burn]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Dan_Burnett
17:00:34 [Zakim]
+Dan_Burnett; got it
17:00:47 [burn]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Olli_Pettay
17:00:47 [Zakim]
+Olli_Pettay; got it
17:01:22 [ddahl1]
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17:01:48 [Charles]
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17:02:06 [Zakim]
+Debbie_Dahl
17:02:11 [bringert]
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+Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:03:16 [glen]
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17:03:46 [burn]
zakim, Joseph_Scheuhammer is Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:04:09 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath; got it
17:04:17 [Zakim]
+Charles_Hemphill
17:04:38 [smaug]
Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
17:04:58 [Zakim]
ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
17:05:06 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.253.aaaa
17:05:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.381.aabb
17:05:31 [Milan]
Scribe: Milan
17:05:35 [burn]
zakim, aaaa is Glen_Shires
17:05:35 [Zakim]
+Glen_Shires; got it
17:06:03 [burn]
zakim, aabb is Dan_Druta
17:06:03 [Zakim]
+Dan_Druta; got it
17:06:20 [burn]
ScribeNick: Milan
17:06:44 [burn]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0072.html
17:07:01 [Milan]
Topic: Review final report
17:07:17 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:07:21 [Milan]
Dan: Content complete
17:07:41 [Milan]
... but a few editorial nits remain
17:07:48 [Zakim]
+Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
17:09:03 [Milan]
... contentfull changes have been available for public review
17:09:25 [Milan]
Debbie: I'd like to review changes
17:10:12 [Milan]
Bjorn: Add discussion about future working group to agenda today
17:11:37 [burn]
first set of changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0067.html
17:17:04 [burn]
second list of changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0071.html
17:21:33 [Milan]
Burn: Any questions?
17:21:49 [Milan]
... OK, no questions
17:22:33 [Milan]
Debbie: Need more explanation behind DanD's diagram.
17:22:46 [Milan]
... but maybe not necessary because it'
17:22:56 [Milan]
... it is just explanitory
17:23:30 [Milan]
Burn: Probably a major effort to add detailed wording
17:24:07 [Milan]
Debbie: Perhaps I can take a look to find low-hanging fruit that brings clairity
17:24:46 [Milan]
Burn: Need to stop edits in about one week
17:25:35 [Milan]
Glen: One sample has allot of psudeo code
17:25:48 [Milan]
... and TODOs
17:26:08 [Milan]
Burn: Agree
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17:27:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.212.341.aacc
17:28:01 [Milan]
Michael: I will look at that example
17:28:16 [burn]
zakim, aacc is Michael_Johnston
17:28:16 [Zakim]
+Michael_Johnston; got it
17:28:35 [glen]
sample is "Speech Enabled Email Client"
17:28:55 [glen]
particularly onMicClicked method
17:29:12 [Milan]
Topic: Satish's proposal to move methods into collections
17:29:16 [burn]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-htmlspeech/2011Nov/0064.html
17:30:36 [Milan]
Burn: I'm comfortable either way
17:30:42 [Milan]
... other comments?
17:31:34 [Milan]
Milan: Nice to be able to add collection as a whole
17:32:37 [Milan]
Satish: Yes, this was part of the design
17:32:51 [Milan]
Dan: I also like this
17:33:17 [smaug]
looks ok to me
17:34:01 [Milan]
Dan: Objections to making this change?
17:34:10 [ddahl1]
i think this is a good idea
17:34:16 [Milan]
... OK, I'll make the change
17:34:34 [Milan]
Topic: Next steps
17:34:51 [Milan]
Dan: Editorial cleanup and short summary
17:35:25 [Milan]
... questions?
17:35:52 [Milan]
Bjourn: Good work so far
17:36:09 [Milan]
... Need input from all browser vendors
17:36:45 [Milan]
... Google will not join working group unless all browser vendors also join
17:37:11 [Milan]
... And bring our work to the attention to the HTML working groups
17:38:02 [Milan]
... Need Apple and Opera as well as Mozilla, Chrome, and IE
17:38:27 [Milan]
MBodell: Will not get participation if going to WhatWG
17:38:36 [Milan]
... IE participation
17:39:01 [Milan]
Bjorn: Need more browser discussion, not more speech discussion
17:39:16 [Milan]
Dan: And also web developer participation
17:40:03 [Milan]
... best feedback will probably result from a more focused group
17:40:18 [Milan]
Bjorn: Yes, as long as all vendors are present
17:40:43 [Milan]
Satish: Haven't heard from Opera and Apple
17:40:59 [Milan]
Dan: Yes, I've tried
17:41:29 [Milan]
... Charter proposal will be circulated, and we can add strong wording
17:42:04 [Milan]
MichaelJ: I made a request to Apple
17:42:15 [Milan]
... perhaps we could be happy with 4/5
17:42:38 [Milan]
Bjorn: Then need to take discussion to where they are
17:43:04 [Milan]
Dan: This is a significant change in position from Google
17:43:45 [Milan]
Bjorn: Continued work is almost pointless without browser vendords
17:44:33 [Milan]
Statish: For example, if we proceed in a silo, we will not know if what we produce will be palitable
17:45:07 [Milan]
Bjorn: Yes, will be a waste to flesh out details if fundamentals are not strong
17:46:16 [Milan]
MichaelJ: Most significant point is the reco element wrt the HTML WG
17:46:35 [Milan]
... But JS may not produce as much feedback
17:47:21 [Milan]
Bjorn: To be clear, I'm not referring to protocol. And JS API is included with declarative.
17:48:00 [Milan]
... we'll get good feedback when we post XG results
17:48:27 [Milan]
Dan: Purpose of group is to give a home to feedback requests
17:48:44 [Milan]
... and will be best in a dedicated group
17:50:04 [Milan]
Michael: Nobody is against posting this
17:50:16 [Milan]
... to a location of choosing
17:50:27 [Milan]
Dan: The question is where to handle that feedback
17:50:48 [Milan]
... HTML WG is a good major source of comments
17:51:01 [Milan]
Bjorn: But where does the discussion happen?
17:52:18 [Milan]
Ollie: Do you expect that HTML WG will produce a separate specification or incorporate into existing spec?
17:52:26 [Milan]
Bjorn: Don't care
17:52:48 [Milan]
Satish: Should be left to the editor
17:53:15 [Milan]
Ollie: HTML spec is too large, and this will be lost
17:53:26 [Milan]
... so prefer a dedicated spec
17:53:40 [Milan]
Dan: I'm involved in WebRTC
17:53:56 [Milan]
... similar dicussions
17:54:13 [Milan]
... and there is a large amount of independent feedback
17:54:37 [Milan]
... so it's a framework that is functional
17:56:44 [Milan]
Debbie: What about an interest group that forms in the interim?
17:57:24 [Milan]
Bjorn: Yes, good idea to take a pause for feedback, but maybe don't need formal structure
17:57:47 [Milan]
Michael: Want to see this on a standards track
17:58:07 [Milan]
... so don't want it in an informal group
17:58:35 [Milan]
Debbie: Interest group is a formal W3C structure, but agree not a standards track
17:59:26 [Milan]
Dan: OK with Bjorn's idea as long as we don't creat a spec
17:59:49 [Milan]
MIchael: Feedback is different that standarizing
18:00:47 [Milan]
Bjorn: Let's keep XG, and its main purpose should be to collect feedback
18:01:22 [Milan]
Michael: Do not want to move discussion outside W3C
18:01:35 [Milan]
Bjorn: Would like to include WhatWG
18:02:07 [Milan]
Michael: Want to start a new WG for that
18:04:23 [Milan]
Dan: WhatWG doesn't include all browser vendors
18:06:02 [Milan]
Bjorn: We can separate topics of feedback of spec building
18:06:22 [Milan]
Michael: Fine as long as discussion doesn't build specs
18:07:44 [Milan]
Dan: WebRTC and its own WG. List is monitored by WhatWG
18:08:21 [Milan]
... interesting WhatWG discussion is brought to the attention of the WG
18:08:43 [Milan]
... and the Google chair of the group has support of Hixie
18:09:14 [Milan]
... this is a working process
18:09:30 [Milan]
... so how is our group different?
18:09:42 [smaug]
Hmm, is it possible that Apple doesn't participate this work because of IP issues ? If that is the case, this work couldn't go to HTML WG
18:10:30 [Milan]
Satish: Perhaps because our group doesn't touch because of declaritive
18:15:40 [Milan]
Dan: Charter of working group forces this class of discussion by all major browser vendors
18:19:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.279.aadd
18:20:19 [glen]
zakim, aadd is Glen_Shires
18:20:19 [Zakim]
+Glen_Shires; got it
18:20:27 [Milan]
Bjorn: Most important thing is wide feedback
18:20:58 [Milan]
MichaelJ: Can run into problems with focusing too much on feedback, because bogs progress
18:21:37 [Milan]
... but W3C does require addressing feedback as approach last call
18:22:41 [Milan]
MichaelB: External discussion is fine, but spec work must take place in W3C
18:23:30 [Milan]
Dan: Dicussion is fine, but decisions need to be made in SDL
18:23:39 [Milan]
... SDO
18:24:10 [Milan]
... For example VoiceXML forum and VBWG
18:25:28 [Milan]
Bjorn: Need commitment to listen to external feedback
18:25:44 [Milan]
Michael: That's already part of W3C
18:25:55 [Milan]
Dan: Must address every public comment
18:26:16 [Milan]
... tracked and recorded
18:26:38 [Milan]
... disagreements are escalated
18:27:12 [Milan]
Michael: As long as comments are sent to the W3C
18:27:45 [Milan]
Bjorn: Google would like to think about this more internally
18:27:58 [Milan]
... can we discuss on mailing list?
18:28:18 [Milan]
Dan: We are almost out of time
18:28:54 [Milan]
... may need to schedule an emergency call
18:29:46 [Milan]
... recommend contacting Harold A from WebRTC
18:30:14 [Milan]
Michael: Please also proof the draft
18:30:47 [Milan]
Glen: Schedule call for December 1st.
18:31:08 [Milan]
... or at least reserve it
18:32:11 [Zakim]
-Glen_Shires.a
18:32:27 [Milan]
MichaelJ: Correction to minutes
18:33:10 [Milan]
... comment was that we shouldn't worry about not addressing feedback within W3C. Safety checks are in place.
18:33:31 [Zakim]
-Olli_Pettay
18:33:32 [Zakim]
-Glen_Shires
18:33:32 [Zakim]
-Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath
18:33:33 [Zakim]
-Michael_Johnston
18:33:34 [Zakim]
-Michael_Bodell
18:33:35 [Zakim]
-Debbie_Dahl
18:33:36 [Zakim]
-Milan_Young
18:33:44 [burn]
rrsagent, make logs public
18:33:45 [Zakim]
-Charles_Hemphill
18:33:55 [burn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:33:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
18:34:29 [Zakim]
-Dan_Burnett
18:34:43 [burn]
zakim, who's on the phone?
18:34:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Dan_Druta
18:36:58 [burn]
zakim, bye
18:36:58 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Debbie_Dahl, Bjorn_Bringert,Satish_Sampath, Charles_Hemphill, +1.650.253.aaaa,
18:36:58 [Zakim]
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18:37:01 [Zakim]
... +1.425.381.aabb, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta, +1.212.341.aacc, Michael_Johnston, +1.650.279.aadd
18:38:01 [burn]
Present: Milan_Young, Michael_Bodell, Dan_Burnett, Olli_Pettay, Debbie_Dahl, Bjorn_Bringert, Satish_Sampath, Charles_Hemphill, Glen_Shires, Dan_Druta, Michael_Johnston
18:38:07 [burn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:38:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/11/17-htmlspeech-minutes.html burn
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