IRC log of eval on 2011-10-27
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:49:01 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #eval
- 13:49:01 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-eval-irc
- 13:49:03 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs world
- 13:49:03 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #eval
- 13:49:05 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be 3825
- 13:49:05 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
- 13:49:06 [trackbot]
- Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
- 13:49:06 [trackbot]
- Date: 27 October 2011
- 13:53:39 [sinarmaya]
- sinarmaya has joined #eval
- 13:54:48 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
- 13:54:50 [Zakim]
- + +25430021aaaa
- 13:54:55 [Zakim]
- - +25430021aaaa
- 13:54:56 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
- 13:54:58 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +25430021aaaa
- 13:56:14 [Kathy]
- Kathy has joined #eval
- 13:56:33 [shadi]
- zaki, code?
- 13:56:38 [shadi]
- zakim, code?
- 13:56:38 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 3825 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi
- 13:56:45 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
- 13:56:45 [Zakim]
- +Kathy
- 13:57:23 [Zakim]
- + +90700021aaaa
- 13:57:23 [Zakim]
- - +90700021aaaa
- 13:57:23 [Zakim]
- + +90700021aaaa
- 13:57:25 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 13:57:43 [shadi]
- zakim, ??p7 is shadi
- 13:57:43 [Zakim]
- +shadi; got it
- 13:58:36 [shadi]
- zakim, aaaa is sinarmaya
- 13:58:36 [Zakim]
- +sinarmaya; got it
- 13:59:20 [SarahSwierenga]
- SarahSwierenga has joined #eval
- 13:59:57 [Zakim]
- +shadi.a
- 14:00:26 [AmyChen]
- AmyChen has joined #eval
- 14:00:26 [dboudreau]
- dboudreau has joined #eval
- 14:00:50 [shadi]
- zakim, shadi.a is really Sarah
- 14:00:50 [Zakim]
- +Sarah; got it
- 14:01:00 [shadi]
- zakim, who is on the call?
- 14:01:00 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Kathy, sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah
- 14:01:19 [Zakim]
- +AmyChen
- 14:01:22 [Zakim]
- +dboudreau
- 14:01:34 [Kathy]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:01:34 [Zakim]
- Kathy should now be muted
- 14:01:43 [ericvelleman]
- ericvelleman has joined #eval
- 14:02:26 [AmyChen]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:02:26 [Zakim]
- AmyChen should now be muted
- 14:02:42 [dboudreau]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:02:42 [Zakim]
- dboudreau should now be muted
- 14:02:55 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:03:29 [shadi]
- zakim, ipcaller is Kerstin
- 14:03:29 [Zakim]
- +Kerstin; got it
- 14:03:32 [Zakim]
- +Eric
- 14:03:42 [kerstin]
- kerstin has joined #eval
- 14:04:39 [Liz]
- Liz has joined #eval
- 14:05:03 [Vincent]
- Vincent has joined #eval
- 14:05:17 [shadi]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:05:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric
- 14:05:22 [Zakim]
- +Liz
- 14:05:34 [ericvelleman]
- Zakim, who is on the call
- 14:05:34 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the call', ericvelleman
- 14:05:35 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:05:42 [Zakim]
- + +1.514.487.aabb
- 14:05:49 [ericvelleman]
- Zakim, who is on the phone
- 14:05:49 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ericvelleman
- 14:06:01 [Zakim]
- + +1.502.632.aacc
- 14:06:01 [Vincent]
- Zakim, aabb is Vincent
- 14:06:03 [Zakim]
- +Vincent; got it
- 14:06:14 [dboudreau]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:06:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], Vincent, +1.502.632.aacc
- 14:06:16 [Vincent]
- Hi everyone
- 14:06:19 [agarrison]
- agarrison has joined #eval
- 14:06:19 [ericvelleman]
- Zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:06:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Kathy (muted), sinarmaya (muted), shadi, Sarah, AmyChen (muted), dboudreau (muted), Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], Vincent, +1.502.632.aacc
- 14:06:26 [dboudreau]
- :)
- 14:06:41 [Vincent]
- Strange noises on the phone
- 14:07:03 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 14:07:15 [Vincent]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:07:15 [Zakim]
- Vincent should now be muted
- 14:07:28 [kerstin]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:07:28 [Zakim]
- Kerstin should now be muted
- 14:07:33 [agarrison]
- Call disconnected - I'll call back
- 14:08:15 [Zakim]
- +??P29
- 14:08:15 [ericvelleman]
- Who wants to scribe?
- 14:08:27 [Tim]
- Tim has joined #eval
- 14:08:37 [agarrison]
- Zakim, ??P29 is me
- 14:08:37 [Zakim]
- +agarrison; got it
- 14:08:44 [Vincent]
- ack me
- 14:09:24 [Zakim]
- +Tim_Boland
- 14:09:28 [dboudreau]
- ack me
- 14:09:46 [Vincent]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:09:46 [Zakim]
- Vincent should now be muted
- 14:10:04 [shadi]
- scribe: agarrison
- 14:10:10 [Nethermind]
- Nethermind has joined #eval
- 14:10:11 [dboudreau]
- \o/ to alistair !!!
- 14:10:30 [Nethermind]
- hi, all :) I'm here to learn what scribing means and looks like
- 14:10:46 [shadi]
- Topic: Methodology naming
- 14:10:49 [kerstin]
- thx alistair!
- 14:11:59 [agarrison]
- Eric - Recap on short title
- 14:12:20 [shadi]
- q+ to talk about "website"
- 14:12:33 [dboudreau]
- q+ about using a nice sounding acronym
- 14:12:57 [agarrison]
- large agreement for waem
- 14:12:58 [dboudreau]
- q+ to talk about "nice sounding acronyms"
- 14:13:17 [AmyChen]
- =1
- 14:13:17 [ericvelleman]
- Q?
- 14:13:20 [AmyChen]
- +1
- 14:13:23 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:14:22 [agarrison]
- shadi - people are not so convinced that naming is important. Outreach aspects are important to consider.
- 14:14:51 [agarrison]
- shadi - using website might not be the most up to date term
- 14:15:17 [agarrison]
- shadi - web information systems was not opposed by EOWG
- 14:15:22 [AmyChen]
- +1
- 14:15:23 [kerstin]
- I asked some people to speak out WAEM in german, with strange results like wäm, waaaaaem, waaaaim :-)
- 14:15:40 [Nethermind]
- q+ to talk about reception of acronyms by business stakeholders in big business
- 14:15:47 [AmyChen]
- +1
- 14:15:49 [agarrison]
- shadi - what do people think of web information systems
- 14:16:07 [AmyChen]
- q+
- 14:16:07 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:16:10 [Zakim]
- +Mike
- 14:16:28 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:16:28 [Zakim]
- shadi, you wanted to talk about "website"
- 14:16:35 [agarrison]
- shadi - should web information systems be used in place of websites
- 14:16:35 [shadi]
- ack db
- 14:16:35 [Zakim]
- dboudreau, you wanted to talk about "nice sounding acronyms"
- 14:17:21 [Mike_Elledge]
- Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
- 14:18:06 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - WISE as an ackronym might be better than WAEM - for outreach the term needs to be captivating
- 14:19:04 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - we should try for an ackronym which would sum up what we are trying to achieve
- 14:19:27 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:19:42 [agarrison]
- eric - to get WISE we would need the term Web Information System
- 14:20:34 [shadi]
- ack ne
- 14:20:34 [Zakim]
- Nethermind, you wanted to talk about reception of acronyms by business stakeholders in big business
- 14:22:01 [AmyChen]
- ack me
- 14:22:09 [agarrison]
- elle - from big business perspective - ackronym needs to sum up what we are trying to achieve exactly. Website as a term is dated, however, Web Information Systems might not be procise either
- 14:23:00 [AmyChen]
- I liked the short name WCAG-EM, gets away from needing acronym
- 14:23:01 [agarrison]
- speaker? Possibly WCAG should come up with the ackroynm
- 14:23:04 [kerstin]
- +1 for WCAG-EM
- 14:23:35 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:23:36 [dboudreau]
- +1 for WCAG-EM unless we can come up with something more creative with either WISE, AWARE or EQUAL
- 14:23:38 [AmyChen]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:23:38 [Zakim]
- AmyChen should now be muted
- 14:23:52 [Nethermind]
- agree with AmyChen and dboudreau
- 14:24:03 [shadi]
- q?
- 14:24:15 [kerstin]
- +1 for dboudreau :-)
- 14:24:16 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:24:20 [dboudreau]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:24:20 [Zakim]
- dboudreau should now be muted
- 14:24:45 [agarrison]
- eric - the ackronym issue will continue to be discussed
- 14:24:52 [kerstin]
- waaaaaem :-) geman
- 14:25:06 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:25:12 [dboudreau]
- at least with WCAG-EM, nobody needs to wonder about pronunciation… we've all learned to pronounce WCAG differently already ;p
- 14:25:13 [agarrison]
- eric - will try and finalise ackronym issue - place it on the agenda for next week
- 14:25:14 [Mike_Elledge]
- +1
- 14:25:35 [SarahSwierenga]
- +1 on voting on the narrowed list of names
- 14:25:45 [agarrison]
- shadi - probably not something which will reach a solution for next week
- 14:26:06 [agarrison]
- shadi - WCAG EM had alot of support
- 14:26:51 [agarrison]
- shadi - it is something which will require a lot of thought as for easier promotion a good ackronym is important
- 14:27:10 [AmyChen]
- including website/web information system in the subtitle would be good
- 14:27:24 [agarrison]
- shadi - more ideas - playing with other terms like Web Information System
- 14:28:09 [agarrison]
- eric - place it on agenda for next week
- 14:28:18 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:28:32 [agarrison]
- eric - next point table of contents
- 14:28:45 [shadi]
- Topic: Table of contents
- 14:29:09 [agarrison]
- eric - there was low feedback on the table of contents, so lets discuss
- 14:29:20 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:29:44 [agarrison]
- eric - no responses from "is this table of contents unusable"
- 14:30:59 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:31:01 [agarrison]
- eric - overview of table of contents - trying to frame the table of contents in terms of typical standards document
- 14:31:22 [agarrison]
- eric - no responses "is there anything missing"
- 14:31:48 [agarrison]
- eric - requirements document covers sections 1 - 5
- 14:32:03 [Nethermind]
- q+ regarding iterative process
- 14:32:06 [agarrison]
- eric - section 6 - expertise for evaluating
- 14:32:11 [Nethermind]
- q+
- 14:32:21 [AmyChen]
- q+
- 14:32:24 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:33:19 [agarrison]
- Nethermind - question could be under 7.4 - is there anything which covers iterative checks.
- 14:33:49 [Tim]
- q+
- 14:34:22 [dboudreau]
- ack me
- 14:34:39 [agarrison]
- Nethermind - recommendation - how to cover iterative testing (automated testing, user acceptance testing).
- 14:35:31 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:35:35 [AmyChen]
- ack me
- 14:35:39 [Nethermind]
- q-
- 14:35:40 [dboudreau]
- q+ to talk about "production processes vs maintenance processes"
- 14:36:21 [agarrison]
- Amychen - iterative processes - weren't they covered in the scope. Possibly you might want to expand it in 7.4.
- 14:36:44 [agarrison]
- Amychen - What was the discussion about splitting the methodology
- 14:37:27 [agarrison]
- Eric - we need to mention that people with disabilities our involved
- 14:38:11 [agarrison]
- Amychen - order of document is not as important as content. What were the two things which people suggested splitting
- 14:38:35 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:38:36 [agarrison]
- Eric - it was between technical part and overview - but this is something for later
- 14:38:46 [AmyChen]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:38:46 [Zakim]
- AmyChen should now be muted
- 14:39:12 [agarrison]
- Tim - important to encourage in document evaluation during development of web systems
- 14:39:38 [shadi]
- q?
- 14:39:42 [shadi]
- ack t
- 14:39:45 [vivienne]
- vivienne has joined #eval
- 14:40:05 [agarrison]
- Tim - are we looking at different roles of evaluators - possibly it could be difficult to fit all roles into the same document.
- 14:40:10 [Nethermind]
- agree RE: different roles and the expansion of this document, dboudreau has a good document for role based accessibility requirements
- 14:40:26 [Zakim]
- +??P39
- 14:40:26 [dboudreau]
- yep, i do ;p
- 14:40:40 [agarrison]
- Tim - normative and formative recommendations should be split out
- 14:40:44 [AmyChen]
- q+
- 14:40:49 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:41:14 [Tim]
- http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/qaframe-primer
- 14:41:20 [dboudreau]
- http://alpha.gcwwwtemplates.tbs-sct.ircan.gc.ca/theme-clf2-nsi2/accessRespBreakdown-eng.html Accessibility responsibility breakdown (WCAG 2.0)
- 14:41:30 [shadi]
- zakim, ??p39 is vivienne
- 14:41:30 [Zakim]
- +vivienne; got it
- 14:41:40 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - this is what elle was referring to.
- 14:41:41 [Tim]
- QA Framework Primer - #3 Role-Based View
- 14:42:08 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - this could be a way to split the methodology into roles.
- 14:42:26 [Nethermind]
- dboudreau, totally agree
- 14:42:55 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - often asked why there is not a seperate evaluation method for development and maintainenace of web systems.
- 14:43:41 [agarrison]
- eric - could be a problem to solve later in the evaluation methodology
- 14:44:00 [agarrison]
- eric - should also keep in mind roles
- 14:44:05 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:44:11 [shadi]
- ack db
- 14:44:12 [Zakim]
- dboudreau, you wanted to talk about "production processes vs maintenance processes"
- 14:44:33 [agarrison]
- dboudreau - also we discussed preliminary and deeper evaluations
- 14:44:42 [dboudreau]
- q-
- 14:44:50 [AmyChen]
- ack me
- 14:44:56 [agarrison]
- eric - this was not the same thing as iterative
- 14:45:32 [dboudreau]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:45:32 [Zakim]
- dboudreau should now be muted
- 14:45:41 [agarrison]
- amychen - conformance claim should be made when the website is built. Is there a wiki or some way to all look at the documents we are creating
- 14:46:15 [agarrison]
- eric - we are planning to put all this information in a webpage - however, shadi mentioned a wiki
- 14:46:25 [agarrison]
- amychen - wiki would be great
- 14:46:30 [Kathy]
- that would be great
- 14:46:34 [Nethermind]
- agreed
- 14:46:43 [Nethermind]
- it's hard for me to follow email threads
- 14:47:03 [agarrison]
- shadi - wiki could be made for the group, it can over complicate things however
- 14:47:37 [Kathy]
- q+
- 14:47:51 [agarrison]
- shadi - sometimes it does not allow public to tell the difference between raw content and agreed content
- 14:48:27 [agarrison]
- eric - it would be good to allow everyone to add things directly, with content edited
- 14:49:08 [agarrison]
- shadi - editing / acknowledgements takes a lot of resource
- 14:49:18 [Mike_Elledge]
- Could be very useful for collaboration...identifying our edits with our initials wld also permit discussion...
- 14:49:26 [agarrison]
- eric - like mailing list as its easier
- 14:50:02 [agarrison]
- amychen - commenting on document would be more active if wiki was used
- 14:50:32 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:50:33 [Kathy]
- ack me
- 14:50:37 [agarrison]
- eric - I will think about wiki to see how much work is envolved - on agenda for next time
- 14:51:16 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:51:22 [agarrison]
- kathy - email could be made easier with clearer threads
- 14:51:36 [AmyChen]
- +1
- 14:51:43 [Nethermind]
- +1
- 14:51:43 [dboudreau]
- +1 to kathy though it's always been a problem in every W3C WG
- 14:51:46 [agarrison]
- eric - agree, it is difficult to follow threads currently
- 14:51:54 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:52:00 [agarrison]
- shadi - agree also
- 14:52:18 [agarrison]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 14:52:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-eval-minutes.html agarrison
- 14:52:40 [Kathy]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:52:40 [Zakim]
- Kathy should now be muted
- 14:53:00 [agarrison]
- shadi - better to send more emails if it allows subjects to remain clear - with clear threads
- 14:53:41 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:53:48 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:54:04 [agarrison]
- shadi - Eric and shadi to think about how best to manage changes to documents etc...
- 14:54:36 [agarrison]
- eric - proposal to take table of contents, format it and put it into a document online
- 14:55:13 [agarrison]
- eric - which is best way to discuss, should be take it section by section
- 14:55:27 [dboudreau]
- +1 to breaking it down yes
- 14:55:44 [AmyChen]
- +1
- 14:55:44 [agarrison]
- eric - we need to flesh out the different sections using the discussion list
- 14:56:01 [shadi]
- Topic: Any other business
- 14:56:04 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:56:39 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:56:41 [agarrison]
- eric - any other business, 1) we have been gathering information about different evaluation methodologies, keep sending in well documented evaluation methods
- 14:57:05 [ericvelleman]
- <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Website_Accessibility_Evaluation_Methodologies>
- 14:57:22 [agarrison]
- shadi - wiki of research and development groups will include links to all the collected evaluation methods
- 14:57:27 [Mike_Elledge]
- q+
- 14:58:04 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:58:04 [agarrison]
- eric - 2) use cases and scenarios - it would be useful to make links to these also
- 14:58:22 [Nethermind]
- q+
- 14:59:00 [agarrison]
- shadi - different use cases for people conducting evaluations or reasons for having an evaluation conducted would be useful to collect
- 14:59:21 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 14:59:25 [shadi]
- q-
- 14:59:27 [agarrison]
- shadi - these could be useful when testing the applicability of the method we create
- 15:00:19 [agarrison]
- shadi - reminder about daylight saving in Europe - and the shift in US time for meeting, one week later the US will then shift also
- 15:00:36 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 15:00:50 [agarrison]
- Mike - confused between level of detail to provide
- 15:01:23 [agarrison]
- Mike - we have concentrated on public methods, but it would be useful to share methods that we use
- 15:01:39 [agarrison]
- eric - sharing methods would be good
- 15:02:04 [agarrison]
- mike - we have been focusing on the public domain, but would be willing to share internal methods
- 15:02:07 [dboudreau]
- Sorry, i need to run to another meeting that started 2 minutes ago… have a great day all, sorry to leave so abruptly
- 15:02:13 [ericvelleman]
- q?
- 15:02:15 [Zakim]
- -dboudreau
- 15:02:20 [shadi]
- q- mi
- 15:02:25 [shadi]
- ack ne
- 15:02:34 [agarrison]
- elle - more templated method the better
- 15:02:37 [agarrison]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:02:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-eval-minutes.html agarrison
- 15:02:51 [Mike_Elledge]
- Bye everyone!
- 15:02:54 [kerstin]
- bye
- 15:02:57 [sinarmaya]
- bye, thanks :)
- 15:02:57 [Zakim]
- -Sarah
- 15:02:58 [Zakim]
- -Tim_Boland
- 15:02:58 [Zakim]
- - +1.502.632.aacc
- 15:03:00 [Vincent]
- Bye
- 15:03:01 [agarrison]
- no problem
- 15:03:01 [AmyChen]
- thanks everyone, bye!
- 15:03:02 [Zakim]
- -Kathy
- 15:03:05 [Zakim]
- -Mike
- 15:03:07 [sinarmaya]
- sinarmaya has left #eval
- 15:03:09 [SarahSwierenga]
- bye!
- 15:03:15 [Zakim]
- -Eric
- 15:03:17 [Zakim]
- -sinarmaya
- 15:03:19 [Zakim]
- -shadi
- 15:03:21 [Zakim]
- -agarrison
- 15:03:22 [Zakim]
- -Vincent
- 15:03:33 [Zakim]
- -AmyChen
- 15:03:35 [Zakim]
- -Liz
- 15:03:42 [Zakim]
- -vivienne
- 15:03:45 [Zakim]
- -Kerstin
- 15:03:45 [ericvelleman]
- ericvelleman has left #eval
- 15:03:47 [Zakim]
- WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
- 15:03:49 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Kathy, +90700021aaaa, shadi, sinarmaya, Sarah, AmyChen, dboudreau, Kerstin, Eric, Liz, [IPcaller], +1.514.487.aabb, +1.502.632.aacc, Vincent, agarrison, Tim_Boland,
- 15:03:53 [Zakim]
- ... Mike, vivienne
- 15:04:45 [dboudreau]
- dboudreau has left #eval
- 15:05:09 [shadi]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 15:05:09 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 15:05:09 [Zakim]
- sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
- 15:05:10 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:05:10 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/27-eval-minutes.html trackbot
- 15:05:11 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:05:11 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items