13:57:58 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 13:57:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-xproc-irc 13:58:01 Zakim has joined #xproc 13:58:05 zakim, this will be xproc 13:58:05 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes 13:58:12 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 13:58:12 Date: 13 October 2011 13:58:12 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/10/06-agenda 13:58:12 Meeting: 199 13:58:12 Chair: Norm 13:58:13 Scribe: Norm 13:58:15 ScribeNick: Norm 13:58:24 alexmilowski has joined #xproc 13:59:29 XML_PMWG()10:00AM has now started 13:59:50 +Alex_Milows 13:59:57 +JimFuller 14:00:26 zakim, passcode? 14:00:28 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm 14:00:38 +Norm 14:00:50 +[ArborText] 14:01:10 ht has joined #xproc 14:01:44 Vojtech has joined #xproc 14:01:48 zakim, who's here? 14:01:48 On the phone I see Alex_Milows, JimFuller, Norm, PGrosso 14:01:49 On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, alexmilowski, Zakim, RRSAgent, PGrosso, Norm, jimfuller, Liam, caribou 14:01:55 Regrets: Mohamed 14:02:06 Present: Alex, Jim, Norm, Paul, Henry, Vojtech 14:02:37 +Vojtech 14:02:50 +??P48 14:03:13 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/docs/xml-proc-profiles.html 14:03:54 zakim, who's here? 14:03:56 On the phone I see Alex_Milows, JimFuller, Norm, PGrosso, Vojtech, ht 14:03:57 On IRC I see Vojtech, ht, alexmilowski, Zakim, RRSAgent, PGrosso, Norm, jimfuller, Liam, caribou 14:04:17 Topic: Accept this agenda? 14:04:17 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/10/13-agenda 14:04:24 Accepted. 14:04:28 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 14:04:28 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2011/10/06-minutes 14:04:34 Accepted. 14:04:49 Topic: Next meeting: telcon, 20 October 2011? 14:04:59 No regrets heard. 14:05:36 Topic: XML processor profiles issues 14:05:43 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2010/11/lc-comments/ 14:06:30 Norm: We've got a bunch of open issues. Henry, want to give us an update? 14:07:33 Henry: The only changes I've got planned are the one's minuted last week. Renaming of the profiles, renaming B' to S, and changing of a bit of wording in 4.2.3. 14:07:38 Norm: Thank you, Henry. 14:08:38 Norm: Let's skim over the open issues and see how many we feel comfortable marking as closed. 14:09:25 Norm: I think issue 1 is resolved. 14:09:28 Vojtech: I think so. 14:12:50 ACTION: Henry to review isssue 3 (2) and 3 (3) as editorial making changes as the editor sees fit 14:14:29 Henry: WRT comment 4, add a sentence to the beginning of section 3 clarifying how the classes are derived from the table below. 14:14:39 ...Comment (5) is resolved by section 7 in the latest draft. 14:15:48 Norm: That leaves (1); Liam objects to calling the Infoset a data model. 14:16:44 Henry: If I changed it to "the infoset or data models that capture similar information"...is that OK? 14:16:49 Paul: Sure. 14:18:02 Norm: Issue 4 was a thread we did about browsers. I think we can close that. 14:18:20 Alex: It's possible the browser could do more, but I don't think we're going get a better story. 14:18:45 ...I'd like XInclude, but we don't have a profile for that the browsers could do. 14:19:14 Henry: I think it's fine; in so far as the point of the full profile is that you basically have the document that the author committed to, I think having XInclude but not external entities is odd in that respect. 14:19:25 Alex: Unless you're in a DTD-less world, then it's not odd. 14:20:11 Norm: Issue 5 is about test cases, but we're going to try not to do CR, so we can close it, yes? 14:20:35 No objections 14:21:21 Norm: Issue 6 from the Core WG. 14:22:06 Norm: I think we've removed "recommended" which helps, and I think we'll need something in the introduction to spell out why we chose the profiles we did. 14:22:21 ACTION: Norm to attempt to draft that prose, cf. cmsmcq's comment 1 14:23:04 Norm: Issue 7; I don't think we're going to get the browsers to move on that. 14:23:15 Alex: The point there was the second bit, having standalone have an interpretation. 14:23:28 Henry: The browsers aren't going to pay attention to the standalone declaration. 14:24:04 ...Unless we change the XML spec to change the default. The problem is that the default is standalone=no. So if we ask the browsers to change to make standalone=no an error, we'll break all XHTML. It's a lose-lose situation. 14:26:00 Henry: The one thing we could imagine doing is to say that there's a media-type dependent default which is standalone=yes. What we'd be asking the browsers to do is two things: (1) give an error in the presence of an explicit standalone=no, and (2) give an error for non-HTML XML unless there's an explicit standalone=yes 14:26:59 Norm: In 1997, maybe. But today it's just not worth it. We'd be asking every user serving non-XHTML XML to change. 14:28:17 Henry: So how would Core feel about saying that the XML XHTML5 spec can default standalone=no 14:30:23 ...If we don't do this, then we should have raised an issue on XHTML5 saying that they're not raising an error when XML says they should. 14:32:02 Further discussion, leading to the observation that standalone is a validity constraint 14:33:29 Paul: I'm happy to have the Core WG say something if it helps make things work better. 14:33:39 ...as long as it doesn't rewrite the XML spec. 14:34:03 Alex: I think the question is, if you look at the combination of our new document with the smallest profile and the XHTML5 spec, what's the interpretation of the standalone attribute. 14:35:50 ACTION: Paul to put standalone on the Core agenda. 14:38:36 Norm: Let's skip 8 for the moment, I think we've resolved 9 by removing the word "recommended" 14:39:09 Norm: I think 10 is resolved. 14:41:18 Norm: I think 11 and 12 are just observations, not comments on the spec 14:42:01 Norm: I think 13 is resolved by adding section 7 14:43:26 ACTION: Henry to add a note to the effect that we are talking about static parsing, not dynamic environments 14:44:16 Henry: issues 14 and 15 are informational, not comments on the spec 14:44:26 Norm: Issue 16 is clearly a bug. 14:46:11 Topic: Any other business? 14:46:19 Norm encourages everyone to read xproc-dev 14:46:20 -JimFuller 14:46:20 Adjourned 14:46:21 -ht 14:46:21 -PGrosso 14:46:23 -Vojtech 14:46:25 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 14:46:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:46:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-xproc-minutes.html Norm 14:46:33 -Alex_Milows 14:46:36 -Norm 14:46:36 XML_PMWG()10:00AM has ended 14:46:37 Attendees were Alex_Milows, JimFuller, Norm, PGrosso, Vojtech, ht 14:47:02 PGrosso has left #xproc 15:18:43 alexmilowski has left #xproc 16:31:00 Zakim has left #xproc