IRC log of eval on 2011-10-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:51:21 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #eval

13:51:21 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-eval-irc

13:51:22 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:51:23 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #eval

13:51:24 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 3825

13:51:24 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes

13:51:25 [trackbot]

Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference

13:51:25 [trackbot]

Date: 13 October 2011

13:51:37 [shadi]

chair: Eric

13:51:44 [shadi]

scribe: Samuel

13:51:53 [shadi]

scribenick: ssirois

13:53:22 [vivienne]

vivienne has joined #eval

13:53:42 [shadi]

regrets: Detlev, Alistair, Richard, Kostas

13:55:16 [Kathy]

Kathy has joined #eval

13:55:17 [Zakim]

WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started

13:55:24 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

13:55:55 [Zakim]

+Kathy

13:56:02 [shadi]

zakim, call shadi-617

13:56:02 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; the call is being made

13:56:04 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:56:16 [Zakim]

+ssirois

13:56:20 [Liz]

Liz has joined #eval

13:56:48 [ssirois]

zakim, who is on phone

13:56:48 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is on phone', ssirois

13:57:04 [Zakim]

+Liz

13:57:20 [vivienne]

zakim, ?? IPcaller is me

13:57:20 [Zakim]

I don't understand '?? IPcaller is me', vivienne

13:57:37 [vivienne]

zakim, ??IPcaller is me

13:57:37 [Zakim]

sorry, vivienne, I do not recognize a party named '??IPcaller'

13:57:54 [vivienne]

zakim, IPcaller is me

13:57:55 [Zakim]

+vivienne; got it

13:58:15 [vivienne]

zakim, mute me

13:58:16 [Zakim]

vivienne should now be muted

13:58:39 [ssirois]

zakim, mute me

13:58:39 [Zakim]

ssirois should now be muted

13:59:10 [Zakim]

+ +1.510.522.aaaa

14:00:11 [Zakim]

+Katie_Haritos-Shea

14:00:15 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is Amy

14:00:15 [Zakim]

+Amy; got it

14:00:26 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Kathy, Shadi, ssirois (muted), Liz, Amy, Katie_Haritos-Shea

14:00:32 [Zakim]

+ +1.517.432.aabb

14:00:45 [EricVelleman]

EricVelleman has joined #eval

14:00:53 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:53 [Zakim]

On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Kathy, Shadi, ssirois (muted), Liz, Amy (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.517.432.aabb

14:01:05 [SarahSwierenga]

SarahSwierenga has joined #eval

14:01:17 [Kathy]

zakim, mute me

14:01:20 [Zakim]

Kathy should now be muted

14:01:40 [Zakim]

+ +31.30.239.aacc

14:01:40 [shadi]

zakim, aabb is me

14:01:41 [Zakim]

+shadi; got it

14:01:50 [SarahSwierenga]

zakim, aabb

14:01:52 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'aabb', SarahSwierenga

14:01:55 [EricVelleman]

zakim, aacc is EricVelleman

14:01:58 [Zakim]

+EricVelleman; got it

14:02:07 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:02:09 [Ryladog_]

Ryladog_ has joined #eval

14:02:14 [Zakim]

On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Kathy (muted), Shadi, ssirois (muted), Liz, Amy (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, shadi, EricVelleman

14:02:21 [mike_elledge]

mike_elledge has joined #eval

14:02:40 [shadi]

zakim, shadi is really Sarah

14:02:41 [Zakim]

sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'shadi'

14:02:51 [Zakim]

+Mike

14:03:08 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:03:19 [AmyChen]

AmyChen has joined #eval

14:03:26 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:03:26 [Zakim]

On the phone I see vivienne (muted), Kathy (muted), Shadi, ssirois (muted), Liz, Amy (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, shadi, EricVelleman, Mike, [IPcaller]

14:04:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Welcome

14:04:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Title of the Methodology

14:04:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Other open issues about the requirements

14:04:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Next step, the Methodology

14:04:15 [shadi]

agenda+ Any other business

14:04:42 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

14:04:43 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Welcome" taken up [from shadi]

14:05:18 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is Leonie

14:05:18 [Zakim]

+Leonie; got it

14:05:34 [shadi]

zakim, shadi.a is really Sarah

14:05:34 [Zakim]

sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'shadi.a'

14:05:49 [LeonieWatson]

LeonieWatson has joined #Eval

14:06:28 [ssirois]

akt

14:06:34 [ssirois]

zakim, unmute me

14:06:34 [Zakim]

ssirois should no longer be muted

14:07:36 [shadi]

latest version of the requirements available here: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology-reqs/

14:07:51 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:07:51 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Title of the Methodology" taken up [from shadi]

14:08:02 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: great discussion on the name of the methodology. Great ideas and thanks to all for contributing.

14:09:12 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: 3 candidates for a name.

14:09:13 [Vincent]

Vincent has joined #eval

14:09:36 [LeonieWatson]

q+

14:10:06 [Zakim]

+ +1.514.448.aadd

14:10:22 [shadi]

zakim, aadd is Vincent

14:10:22 [Zakim]

+Vincent; got it

14:10:36 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:10:42 [AmyChen]

+1

14:10:53 [Vincent]

Zakim, aadd is Vincent

14:10:53 [Zakim]

sorry, Vincent, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'

14:11:19 [Vincent]

Thank you shadi

14:11:34 [Vincent]

zakim, mute me

14:11:34 [Zakim]

Vincent should now be muted

14:11:39 [ssirois]

shadi: suggests to keep an easy short name to remember

14:12:30 [LeonieWatson]

ack me

14:12:51 [EricVelleman]

Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology for WCAG 2.0 ?

14:13:37 [EricVelleman]

Accessibility Evaluation Methodology for WCAG 2.0

14:13:40 [AmyChen]

q+

14:13:51 [EricVelleman]

Methodology for Evaluating Website Accessibility Conformance

14:13:57 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:14:09 [shadi]

ack a

14:14:12 [shadi]

ack a

14:15:20 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:15:28 [ssirois]

AmyChen: it is a good idea to seperate the title from the short name that will be used on a "daily" basis which is more convenient in order that we won't have to explain an accronym everytime we speak of the methodology.

14:16:23 [LeonieWatson]

q+

14:16:40 [Zakim]

-Vincent

14:16:41 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: so we could keep the actual name that we have (Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology for WCAG 2.0) and keep a short name like "WAICAG Check"

14:17:36 [shadi]

"Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology"

14:17:46 [Vincent]

I ran short of battery. As soon as he other device is ready, I'm back on line :-(

14:17:56 [shadi]

"Accessibility Evaluation Methodology"

14:18:00 [Tim]

Tim has joined #eval

14:18:18 [shadi]

"Evaluation Methodology for Accessibility"

14:18:32 [ssirois]

LeonieWatson: why don't we keep a short title like "Accessibility Evaluation Methodology" and keep that name in conversations? no accronym or shorter name.

14:18:49 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland

14:18:53 [vivienne]

I rather like just something simple like" website accessibility evaluation methodology

14:19:04 [LeonieWatson]

+1 to Vivienne

14:19:38 [vivienne]

why do we even need an acronym?

14:19:49 [AmyChen]

Q+

14:19:53 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: it could be interesting to add "website" to LeonieWatson's name, which makes us coming back to our original title. website is important, but we could drop WCAG 2.

14:19:56 [LeonieWatson]

ack me

14:20:06 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:20:22 [vivienne]

q+

14:20:36 [shadi]

ack a

14:20:37 [ssirois]

shadi: what about the word "conformance" in the title? do we want to clarify that it is a conformance evaluation?

14:20:38 [shadi]

ack a

14:20:42 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:21:18 [vivienne]

ack me

14:21:46 [ssirois]

AmyChen: for me, sounds clear it is a methodology of conformance. But about the "WCAG 2.0", we could drop the "2.0" in order to be inclusive on futur WCAG work.

14:22:14 [vivienne]

mute me

14:22:24 [vivienne]

zakim, mute me

14:22:24 [Zakim]

vivienne should now be muted

14:22:27 [ssirois]

vivienne: when talking about accessibility and parameters of W3C, the conformance is assumed. so we do not need the "conformance" noise in the title.

14:22:32 [Tim]

q+

14:22:33 [Kathy]

+1 I agree

14:22:36 [shadi]

Candidate: "Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology"

14:22:37 [vivienne]

+1

14:22:37 [EricVelleman]

Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology

14:22:42 [LeonieWatson]

+1

14:22:44 [mike_elledge]

+1

14:22:46 [vivienne]

+1

14:22:47 [Kathy]

+1

14:22:47 [EricVelleman]

+1

14:22:50 [Tim]

+1

14:22:57 [SarahSwierenga]

+1

14:23:07 [Liz]

+1

14:23:19 [shadi]

ack t

14:23:34 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: proposes "Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology".

14:23:41 [ssirois]

Adopted by every presents.

14:26:02 [ssirois]

shadi: there is critics about accessibility view only on the conformance. that angle may forget some aspects of accessibility for some populations. so let's keep in mind that we do will have a conformance methodology.

14:26:16 [AmyChen]

Maybe add the word "conformance" and WCAG in the abstract?

14:26:42 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:27:11 [ssirois]

shadi: even though we will surely suggest user tests in the methodology, it may not be directly include in the methodology. so it is a conformance methodology.

14:27:32 [shadi]

- SiteAccess

14:27:32 [shadi]

- WCAG-Check

14:27:32 [shadi]

- AccessSite

14:27:32 [shadi]

- WCAG-Site

14:27:32 [shadi]

- AccessCheck

14:27:33 [shadi]

- SiteCheck

14:27:35 [shadi]

- CheckSite

14:27:37 [shadi]

- WAMBAM

14:27:39 [shadi]

- title

14:27:50 [ssirois]

shadi: now that we have a title, what is the "short name"?

14:27:54 [shadi]

- WAEM

14:27:59 [shadi]

- WAM

14:28:02 [shadi]

- WEM

14:28:09 [vivienne]

q+

14:28:13 [vivienne]

ack me

14:28:30 [Ryladog_]

WCAG-Check +1

14:28:42 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: i do hear that we don't want another accronym that we'll have to explain everytime.

14:28:46 [Vincent]

WCAG-Check +1

14:29:10 [EricVelleman]

wcag-check?

14:29:19 [ssirois]

vivienne: i'm not crazy about the accronym thing. i do prefer WCAG-Check, since that's what we are doing.

14:29:20 [vivienne]

zakim, mute me

14:29:20 [Zakim]

vivienne should now be muted

14:29:34 [mike_elledge]

q+

14:29:36 [Ryladog_]

+1

14:29:46 [LeonieWatson]

Q+

14:29:57 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:30:32 [Vincent]

<abbr title="WCAG-Check (Website Accessibility Evaluation Methodology)">WCAG-Check</abbr> ;-)

14:30:50 [Tim]

q+

14:30:57 [ssirois]

mike_elledge: wondering that we could end up with too much terms for the same thing.

14:31:41 [Ryladog_]

q+

14:31:42 [vivienne]

I'd prefer no acronym at all, but if we have to have a short name, go with something that doesn't require learning a new acronym

14:31:42 [ssirois]

LeonieWatson: we could juste get a title and let it be. people will name it as they want anyways for there daily use.

14:31:49 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:31:49 [LeonieWatson]

ack me

14:32:45 [shadi]

ack m

14:32:51 [shadi]

ack t

14:32:58 [ssirois]

shadi: even though people will use "custom names", it may still be interesting to address this issue with a catchy short name. it will pay off on the futur.

14:34:42 [shadi]

ack Ryladog_

14:35:14 [mike_elledge]

Web Accessibility Methodology for Evaluation (WAME)?

14:35:47 [ssirois]

shadi: responding to Tim (couldn't get the question right) the shorter the name, the easier it will be promoted.

14:35:55 [ssirois]

Ryladog_: wcag-check says it all.

14:35:56 [Zakim]

+Vincent

14:36:12 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:36:21 [ssirois]

Zakim, mute me

14:36:21 [Zakim]

ssirois should now be muted

14:36:24 [Vincent]

zakim, mute me

14:36:24 [Zakim]

Vincent should now be muted

14:36:24 [shadi]

ack amy

14:36:44 [Vincent]

I'm back on phone.

14:37:06 [shadi]

WCAG-Eval

14:37:16 [ssirois]

AmyChen: what about WCAG-Eval? since it's about evaluation.

14:37:18 [LeonieWatson]

Q+

14:37:42 [vivienne]

WCAG sounds like we evaluating WCAG?

14:37:44 [shadi]

ack le

14:38:26 [ssirois]

LeonieWatson: suggestion: WCAG-Methodology, because "eval" sounds like "evil"

14:38:37 [vivienne]

WCAG Site-Check?

14:39:00 [ssirois]

shadi: do we have to think more about that short name? we should push it to the mailing list again.

14:39:22 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: yes. let's push it back to the list and discuss there.

14:39:41 [ssirois]

shadi: we may check also with other groups if we could have outside ideas.

14:39:52 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:39:52 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: let's decide on our next meeting.

14:40:22 [shadi]

ack amy

14:40:33 [shadi]

WCAG-Method

14:40:46 [SarahSwierenga]

okay with me

14:40:48 [vivienne]

fine with me

14:40:56 [ssirois]

AmyChen: let's add WCAG-Method to the discussion on the list.

14:41:10 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:41:10 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Other open issues about the requirements" taken up [from shadi]

14:42:05 [vivienne]

I'm okay with the document as it stands - looks great

14:42:08 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: let's just wrap up the requirements for now, we could get back to those in the futur, but we can now start with the methodology. Anyone disagree?

14:42:11 [Kathy]

I think we are good to move onto the methodology

14:42:18 [ssirois]

Zakim, unmute me

14:42:18 [Zakim]

ssirois should no longer be muted

14:42:46 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:43:05 [ssirois]

AmyChen: have trouble with R9: Consideration for occassional oversight errors

14:43:09 [vivienne]

pre-requisites is spelled incorrectly, isn't it?

14:43:47 [ssirois]

shadi: it was an attempt to describe in other words the "tollerence" aspect of the methodology.

14:44:35 [ssirois]

AmyChen: ok. let's keep the wording (Consideration for occassional oversight errors) and go on with the methodology. we can go back later.

14:44:35 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:45:17 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: i will send around a table of content (TOC) and everyone could describe what they espect of each sections (and add missing sections if any).

14:45:38 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:45:43 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:45:43 [Zakim]

I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, shadi

14:45:50 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: keep it short. use keywords and then we'll be able to discuss later on each point.

14:45:51 [shadi]

ack a

14:45:55 [shadi]

zakim, take up next

14:45:55 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Next step, the Methodology" taken up [from shadi]

14:47:04 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: i will not be present next week. i will send the TOC around somewhere tomorrow. we could use 2 weeks of list discussions (skip next meeting).

14:47:21 [ssirois]

shadi: let's keep next week call. we'll see how things evolve on the list.

14:47:42 [ssirois]

Zakim, mute me

14:47:42 [Zakim]

ssirois should now be muted

14:47:59 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:50:04 [ssirois]

shadi: we have collected public methodologies that exists. now might be a good time to look at this again and see what fit's our requirements, what doesn't.

14:50:40 [vivienne]

sounds good - I've been collecting quite a set of literature that I'm happy to contribute

14:51:50 [ssirois]

zakim, take up next

14:51:50 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Any other business" taken up [from shadi]

14:51:51 [EricVelleman]

q?

14:52:10 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: any other business?

14:52:23 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2011/metrics/

14:52:55 [ssirois]

shadi: just a little reminder about "Website Accessibility Metrics" that hopefully will have output that we could use as input.

14:53:21 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: anyone of us going to that symposium on the 5th december 2011?

14:53:51 [ssirois]

shadi: anyone is invited to submit a paper and present existing work.

14:54:15 [ssirois]

EricVelleman: calls it a wrap 5 minutes before end! ;)

14:54:32 [Zakim]

-Leonie

14:54:33 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

14:54:34 [ssirois]

zakim, unmute me

14:54:34 [Kathy]

bye

14:54:34 [Zakim]

ssirois should no longer be muted

14:54:38 [Vincent]

Thank you and bye

14:54:42 [Zakim]

-Katie_Haritos-Shea

14:54:42 [shadi]

trackbot, end meeting

14:54:42 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

14:54:43 [Zakim]

-Mike

14:54:43 [Zakim]

-Kathy

14:54:43 [Zakim]

-EricVelleman

14:54:43 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

14:54:43 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/10/13-eval-minutes.html trackbot

14:54:44 [Liz]

bye

14:54:44 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, Shadi, ssirois, Liz, vivienne, +1.510.522.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Amy, +1.517.432.aabb, +31.30.239.aacc, EricVelleman, Mike,

14:54:44 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

14:54:44 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items

14:54:46 [Zakim]

... Leonie, +1.514.448.aadd, Vincent, Tim_Boland

14:54:46 [Zakim]

-Amy

14:54:48 [Zakim]

-shadi