IRC log of html-a11y on 2011-09-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:58 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y

14:55:58 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-irc

14:56:00 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

14:56:00 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #html-a11y

14:56:02 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be 2119

14:56:02 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

14:56:03 [trackbot]

Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

14:56:03 [trackbot]

Date: 29 September 2011

14:56:21 [JF]

zakim, this is 2119

14:56:21 [Zakim]

JF, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be 2119".

14:56:34 [JF]

zakim, this will be 2119

14:56:34 [Zakim]

ok, JF; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

14:56:54 [JF]

Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

14:56:55 [JF]

agenda+follow-up from last week on canvas status (Rich)

14:56:57 [JF]

agenda+meta@name=generator alt-text CP (Steve)

14:56:58 [JF]

agenda+review bugzilla a11y-tf "needs info" bugs

14:57:00 [JF]

agenda+review other bugzilla a11y-tf bugs

14:57:01 [JF]

agenda+Subteam Reports: Media; Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Bug Triage

14:57:03 [JF]

agenda+Other Business

14:57:04 [JF]

agenda+Identify Scribe for 06 October

14:57:25 [JF]

scribenick: JF

14:58:37 [paulc]

What is the phone number for the TF meeting?

14:58:46 [Zakim]

WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started

14:59:06 [Zakim]

+John_Foliot

15:00:05 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, call Mike

15:00:05 [Zakim]

ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made

15:00:06 [Zakim]

+Mike

15:00:38 [janina]

janina has joined #html-a11y

15:01:03 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

15:01:13 [Zakim]

+??P42

15:01:20 [janina]

zakim, ??P42 is Janina

15:01:20 [Zakim]

+Janina; got it

15:01:34 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

15:01:42 [Zakim]

+Judy

15:01:53 [Judy]

Judy has joined #html-a11y

15:02:19 [janina]

zakim, who's here?

15:02:19 [Zakim]

On the phone I see John_Foliot, Mike, [Microsoft], Janina, Michael_Cooper, Judy

15:02:19 [davidb]

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15:02:21 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Judy, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, JF, AndChat, dboudreau, MichaelC, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]

15:03:10 [Zakim]

-[Microsoft]

15:03:19 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

15:03:39 [Zakim]

+[Microsoft]

15:04:08 [paulc]

zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc

15:04:08 [Zakim]

+paulc; got it

15:04:15 [JF]

MS: waiting on Rich, as we need to follow up on some Canvas items

15:04:19 [paulc]

I am having audio/mute problems.

15:04:19 [AndChat]

Zakim, AndChat is Joshue

15:04:19 [Zakim]

sorry, AndChat, I do not recognize a party named 'AndChat'

15:04:37 [JF]

also want to look at CP for meta-generator issue

15:04:52 [JF]

finally want to review bugs in bugzilla tagged needs into

15:04:59 [JF]

and if time allows others as well

15:05:41 [JF]

zakim, take up agendum 5

15:05:50 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Subteam Reports: Media; Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Bug Triage" taken up [from JF]

15:06:09 [JF]

JB: we met this week. John is about to release a response to Jonas this week

15:06:21 [JF]

discussed what if anything to do about matt's CP

15:06:47 [JF]

Janina will be working on that, witing on John's response to be released

15:07:03 [JF]

as some of her response would be pointers to comments in John's response

15:07:19 [JF]

re: summary, Josh has updated his response a few times based on feedback

15:07:43 [JF]

Laura and others still had some concerns re: use-case gaps

15:08:03 [JF]

but laura responded today and so awaiting follow through there

15:08:32 [JF]

text sub-group supports Steve's work on Metagenerator

15:09:02 [JF]

there is a new concerns around the generated content issues that emerged from the review process

15:09:20 [JF]

but is a new issue that requires new exploration before something further can be done

15:09:44 [JF]

MS: we *do* have the metagenerator issue on today's agenda

15:10:05 [JF]

JB if questions do come up having Steve available is good

15:10:16 [JF]

MS: next, media sub team?

15:10:32 [JF]

JB: they have not been meeting of late, but are planning on reconvening

15:10:47 [JF]

MS: yes, seems everything is under control there

15:11:02 [JF]

MS: Cyns, any addition s around ARIA mapping of late?

15:11:05 [JF]

Cyns: No

15:11:35 [JF]

JB: looking to possibly move the text meeting time from Monday to Tuesday. Judy will be checking and will advise via the list

15:11:49 [JF]

MS: is this to accomodate schedules?

15:11:52 [JF]

JB: yes

15:12:11 [JF]

MS: we also have the bug triage team. we will be looking at this in depth later on the call

15:12:22 [JF]

MC: main thing is we have finished going through the whole list

15:12:44 [JF]

we found some that were on the line, and have pointed them to the sub-teams

15:12:51 [janina]

q+

15:12:58 [JF]

others appeared fixed, but we are still watching them

15:13:10 [MikeSmith]

ack janina

15:13:15 [JF]

nest task is to look at the prioritization of the bugs in bugzilla

15:13:39 [JF]

JS: was re-reading the current decision policy. Noted some points around escaaltion issues

15:13:45 [MikeSmith]

q+ to mention chairs' response about requests from re-prioritizing of bugs

15:13:46 [JF]

are we aware of that

15:14:12 [JF]

MC: we are aware, and Mike Smith has discussed with chairs - will approach on a case-by-case basis

15:14:35 [JF]

JS: I am reading that if the editor puts in a WONTFIX then the clock starts ticking

15:14:53 [JF]

MC: that does not seem to be what the Chairs timeline states

15:15:03 [JF]

MS: yes, we should look at that now

15:15:30 [paulc]

I believe the last escalation date is in Jan 2012

15:15:32 [JF]

don't beleive there is any deadline set if moved to WONTFIX, unless there has been some change to the Decision policy

15:15:34 [MikeSmith]

http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html

15:15:47 [paulc]

I agree with Michael Cooper.

15:15:52 [Zakim]

-Mike

15:15:53 [paulc]

Jan 14 is the key date.

15:15:54 [JF]

MC: my reading is next deadline is Jan. 14th for cutoof

15:16:01 [JF]

JS: refer to Section 5

15:16:02 [MikeSmith_]

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15:16:27 [JF]

[folks reviewing]

15:16:31 [MikeSmith_]

Zakim, call Mike

15:16:45 [paulc]

What document is Janina reviewing?

15:16:55 [MikeSmith_]

Zakim, call Mike

15:17:01 [JF]

JB: Paul is noting that he agrees with MC

15:17:34 [JF]

JS: perhaps I should be putting this into an email

15:17:42 [paulc]

Just give us the URL of the document - the decision-policy.html has no "section 5"

15:17:51 [JF]

JB: Just want to be sure that we are not looking at an oldre version of the Decision polidy

15:18:26 [paulc]

See http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy-v2.html

15:18:28 [Zakim]

+??P29

15:18:28 [JF]

MC: I am looking at both versions (V1 & V2) and not seeing any dates in either

15:18:39 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, ??P29 is me

15:18:39 [Zakim]

+MikeSmith; got it

15:18:52 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, mute me

15:18:53 [Zakim]

MikeSmith should now be muted

15:18:55 [janina]

http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy-v2.html

15:19:48 [JF]

JS: I will come back with this, as it did jump out at me

15:19:57 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, drop me

15:19:57 [Zakim]

MikeSmith is being disconnected

15:19:58 [Zakim]

-MikeSmith

15:20:00 [JF]

will review and readdress with a more targeted question

15:20:01 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, call Mike

15:20:14 [richardschwerdtfe]

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15:20:16 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, call Mike-goog

15:20:19 [paulc]

Schedule is documented in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0315.html

15:20:39 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

15:20:42 [paulc]

- Jan 14, 2012 - cutoff for escalating bugs for Last Call consideration - all Tracker Issues in Tracker, calls for proposal issued by this date

15:20:46 [Judy]

agenda?

15:21:00 [Zakim]

+Cynthia_Shelly

15:21:03 [Zakim]

+Rich_Schwerdtfeger

15:21:23 [JF]

zakim, take up agendum 1

15:21:23 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "follow-up from last week on canvas status (Rich)" taken up [from JF]

15:21:38 [paulc]

Yes, mjs is back

15:21:48 [JF]

RS: will likely need some advice here. Is Maciej back from vacation

15:22:05 [Zakim]

+??P33

15:22:10 [JF]

I need Macieij to review the focus-ring /clikcable regions

15:22:17 [MikeSmith]

Zakim, ??P3 is me

15:22:17 [Zakim]

+MikeSmith; got it

15:22:25 [JF]

proposal. the question is

15:22:36 [JF]

Sam asked if Rich wants to escalate this

15:22:48 [JF]

but with vacation schedules there has been slow progresss

15:22:59 [JF]

there is another bug around clickable regions

15:23:10 [JF]

Ian dismissed it but likely just needs more infor

15:23:22 [JF]

do we need to escalate that?

15:23:30 [JF]

MS: not really sure

15:23:51 [JF]

RS: I am getting conflicting questions

15:24:02 [JF]

there is a defect - essentially hit-testing on canvas

15:24:18 [janina]

s/I am/Rich is/

15:24:27 [JF]

Ian closed it, but it's not sufficient

15:24:52 [JF]

it's not, explained to Ian and it was reopened, then same responded with the Q- do you want to escalate this?

15:25:13 [JF]

JB: this seems like a similar issue we had on the text team call as well

15:25:57 [JF]

JB: if we risk a repeated open/close go 'round then perhaps we should escalate

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15:26:31 [JF]

MS: hixie already clsed this, but then Rich responded with further clarrification, but hixie has not yet responded

15:26:41 [JF]

so not sure if we need to act yet

15:27:20 [JF]

MS: My understanding of the process is that we have the right to take the WONTFIX response and then escalate it

15:27:32 [JF]

RS: I reopened it, should I escalate it?

15:27:41 [JF]

MS: you are the one to make the call there

15:27:56 [JF]

the criteria is whether you have a chance of changing hixie's mind or not

15:28:03 [JF]

in this case, unsure

15:28:24 [JF]

MS: but you do not have to wait to hear from him to escalate it however

15:29:01 [JF]

If that is the case, revert it back to the editor's WONTFIX status and then tag with Issue Tracker

15:29:16 [JF]

RS: that seems odd to do

15:29:31 [JF]

MS: it is just you reverting it back to the original state of the response from the Editor

15:29:55 [JF]

the other thing is that we can raise the priority of thie bug in hixies queue

15:30:04 [JF]

that might be a better way to move this forward

15:30:11 [JF]

ask the chairs to raise the priority

15:30:29 [JF]

RS: there is that one, and there is another one around binding mouse-events

15:30:50 [JF]

I have responded to hixie's request for more info, but have not heard from hixie

15:31:10 [JF]

Sam asked if Rich wanted to escalate that one too, but there has been no responsce

15:31:41 [JF]

MS: seems the best thing to do at this time is advise the chairs about this and ask for a quicker response

15:31:56 [JF]

RS: Moz has indicated that they want to implement this

15:32:19 [JF]

MS: this is important and significant info that needs to be brought forward

15:32:50 [richardschwerdtfe]

The two defects are:

15:33:00 [richardschwerdtfe]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13176

15:33:05 [richardschwerdtfe]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13181

15:33:34 [JF]

MS: do think next step is to get on HTML WG call today

15:33:59 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-html-a11y-minutes.html

15:34:09 [JF]

MS: Please do include the new info re: Moz's desire to implement

15:34:31 [JF]

rrsagent, make logs public

15:34:33 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13391

15:34:41 [MikeSmith]

ScrollElementIntoView

15:35:14 [JF]

RS: discussed this with Jonas. If we implement this it gets applied to layout manager. So this can be closed

15:35:23 [JF]

MS, this is what we need/want?

15:35:26 [JF]

RS: yes

15:35:42 [JF]

MS will follow with chairs on the other 2 bugs today

15:36:12 [JF]

RS: really need Maciej to look at the CP Rich has authored

15:36:29 [JF]

MS: will bring up those 3 things on today's call

15:36:35 [MikeSmith]

q?

15:36:38 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

15:36:43 [JF]

zakim, take up agendum2

15:36:43 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "meta@name=generator alt-text CP (Steve)" taken up [from JF]

15:37:08 [richardschwerdtfe]

scribe: Rich

15:37:45 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper

15:37:55 [richardschwerdtfe]

janina: the situation with the meta generator is not really the case. I am agreeing it is OK to have images without ALT

15:38:12 [MichaelC]

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15:38:23 [richardschwerdtfe]

janina: Reading Steve's Proposal ...

15:38:40 [richardschwerdtfe]

JF: I don' t think that is explicitly what Steve is saying

15:38:48 [janina]

http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming

15:39:03 [richardschwerdtfe]

JF: This is a serious issue as every CMS is generating a name value into their templates

15:39:25 [richardschwerdtfe]

JF: ... breaking images with alt images is being conformant

15:39:36 [richardschwerdtfe]

JF: role="presentation" is acceptable

15:40:00 [richardschwerdtfe]

JF: If you break this it is a free for all as the validators and meta generators would not be testing for alt text

15:40:21 [richardschwerdtfe]

Mike: The decision on the call should be whether we want to proceed with this change proposal

15:41:10 [richardschwerdtfe]

Judy: I am not sure if you are responding .... Are there still questions. If you and John are looking at this differently then we have a problem. We can't ask for task level support until this is respolved.

15:41:19 [richardschwerdtfe]

janina: I did re-read it

15:41:30 [richardschwerdtfe]

judy: I am proposing that we take it back into the sub team

15:41:46 [richardschwerdtfe]

janina: OK

15:41:56 [richardschwerdtfe]

scribe: JF

15:42:04 [richardschwerdtfe]

ye

15:42:15 [JF]

zakim, take up agendum 3

15:42:15 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "review bugzilla a11y-tf "needs info" bugs" taken up [from JF]

15:42:27 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=a11ytf&bug_status=RESOLVED&resolution=NEEDSINFO

15:42:55 [JF]

MS: these are important because nothing will change until we (or an individual) takes some action

15:43:26 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721

15:44:06 [JF]

MC: propose that the most important ones are those not assigned to hixie

15:44:18 [JF]

MS: there has been no discussion on this in over a year

15:44:33 [JF]

last year hixie made significant changes to the D n D section

15:44:39 [MichaelC]

actually, the ones that *are* assigned to Ian are most important for us to look at because nobody is currently doing so

15:45:20 [JF]

MS: asked Gez to re-review to see if the issues were addressed. Propose to close this with a comment

15:45:43 [JF]

MC: assigned another D n D bug to Gez as well. agree this is stale but we need to be careful

15:46:35 [JF]

MS: looking at the ones that MC suggested we prioritize

15:46:35 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8645

15:46:55 [JF]

s/those not assigned to hixie/those assigned to hixie

15:48:52 [JF]

MS: there are some specific questions there, so an action is to ensure specific responses are provided

15:49:00 [JF]

MS: any volunteers?

15:49:34 [JF]

MS: 2 specific questions asked

15:51:25 [JF]

[MS reviewing the bug]

15:51:37 [JF]

MS: this seems that this should be taken up by text team

15:51:47 [JF]

JB: will bring it up on next call

15:51:57 [JF]

MS: action on text team

15:52:04 [JF]

MC: need a deligate

15:52:38 [JF]

RS: label or aria-labeledby can also do the same thing

15:53:38 [JF]

JB: will review and bring back to this group next week

15:53:53 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8885

15:54:21 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8644

15:54:55 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/66

15:55:00 [MikeSmith]

action-66?

15:55:02 [JF]

MS: given that Gez raised this, it would be good if he responded

15:55:10 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/90

15:55:14 [MikeSmith]

action-90?

15:55:33 [JF]

MS: note that 2 actions arose from this

15:56:11 [JF]

MS: with trackbot down, cannot follow up on these actions at this time

15:56:31 [JF]

MS: with only 5 minutes left, perhaps a quick review to highlight bigger issues

15:57:51 [JF]

MS: we have 3 open bugs around ARIA integration, but we need to go though

15:58:11 [JF]

unlikely that MS can provide the required info

15:58:23 [JF]

although first one seems to be mostly editorial in nature

15:58:30 [JF]

MC: can assign to me

15:58:36 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11891

15:58:38 [JF]

MS: OK, sound good

15:58:42 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11892

15:58:47 [JF]

Q+

15:58:49 [MikeSmith]

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11893

15:58:56 [MikeSmith]

ack MikeSmith

15:58:56 [Zakim]

MikeSmith, you wanted to mention chairs' response about requests from re-prioritizing of bugs

15:59:11 [JF]

MS: these seem mostly editorial on nature. Hixie was something to point to

16:00:10 [JF]

MS: we really need to focus on this list next week

16:00:17 [JF]

we only got through about half

16:00:58 [Zakim]

-[Microsoft]

16:01:52 [Zakim]

-Cynthia_Shelly

16:02:02 [JF]

rrsagent, make logs public

16:02:19 [JF]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:02:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html JF

16:02:32 [Zakim]

-Judy

16:02:36 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

16:02:40 [Zakim]

-MikeSmith

16:02:42 [Zakim]

-Rich_Schwerdtfeger

16:02:42 [janina]

janina has left #html-a11y

16:02:44 [Zakim]

-Janina

16:03:34 [JF]

rrsagent, make logs public

16:03:47 [JF]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:03:47 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html JF

16:04:19 [JF]

zakim, bye

16:04:19 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Mike, Janina, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Cynthia_Shelly, paulc, MikeSmith, Rich_Schwerdtfeger

16:04:19 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #html-a11y

16:04:28 [JF]

rrsagent, make logs public

16:04:36 [JF]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:04:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html JF

16:08:21 [JF]

rrsagent, please part

16:08:21 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items

16:32:49 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y

16:32:49 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-irc

16:32:58 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make log world

16:33:03 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:33:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC

16:33:49 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:33:49 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC

16:34:15 [MichaelC]

chair: Mike_Smith

16:34:37 [MichaelC]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Sep/0148.html

16:34:44 [MichaelC]

regrets: Laura_Carlson, Marco_Ranon

16:34:52 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:34:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC

16:35:13 [MichaelC]

rrsagent, bye

16:35:13 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items