14:55:58 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:55:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-html-a11y-irc
14:56:00 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:56:00 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:56:02 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:56:02 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:03 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:56:03 Date: 29 September 2011
14:56:21 zakim, this is 2119
14:56:21 JF, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be 2119".
14:56:34 zakim, this will be 2119
14:56:34 ok, JF; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:54 Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon
14:56:55 agenda+ follow-up from last week on canvas status (Rich)
14:56:57 agenda+ meta@name=generator alt-text CP (Steve)
14:56:58 agenda+ review bugzilla a11y-tf "needs info" bugs
14:57:00 agenda+ review other bugzilla a11y-tf bugs
14:57:01 agenda+ Subteam Reports: Media; Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Bug Triage
14:57:03 agenda+ Other Business
14:57:04 agenda+ Identify Scribe for 06 October
14:57:25 scribenick: JF
14:58:37 What is the phone number for the TF meeting?
14:58:46 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)11:00AM has now started
14:59:06 +John_Foliot
15:00:05 Zakim, call Mike
15:00:05 ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
15:00:06 +Mike
15:00:38 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:01:03 +[Microsoft]
15:01:13 +??P42
15:01:20 zakim, ??P42 is Janina
15:01:20 +Janina; got it
15:01:34 +Michael_Cooper
15:01:42 +Judy
15:01:53 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:02:19 zakim, who's here?
15:02:19 On the phone I see John_Foliot, Mike, [Microsoft], Janina, Michael_Cooper, Judy
15:02:19 davidb has joined #html-a11y
15:02:21 On IRC I see Judy, janina, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, JF, AndChat, dboudreau, MichaelC, MikeSmith, trackbot, [tm]
15:03:10 -[Microsoft]
15:03:19 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:03:39 +[Microsoft]
15:04:08 zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:08 +paulc; got it
15:04:15 MS: waiting on Rich, as we need to follow up on some Canvas items
15:04:19 I am having audio/mute problems.
15:04:19 Zakim, AndChat is Joshue
15:04:19 sorry, AndChat, I do not recognize a party named 'AndChat'
15:04:37 also want to look at CP for meta-generator issue
15:04:52 finally want to review bugs in bugzilla tagged needs into
15:04:59 and if time allows others as well
15:05:41 zakim, take up agendum 5
15:05:50 agendum 5. "Subteam Reports: Media; Text; Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Bug Triage" taken up [from JF]
15:06:09 JB: we met this week. John is about to release a response to Jonas this week
15:06:21 discussed what if anything to do about matt's CP
15:06:47 Janina will be working on that, witing on John's response to be released
15:07:03 as some of her response would be pointers to comments in John's response
15:07:19 re: summary, Josh has updated his response a few times based on feedback
15:07:43 Laura and others still had some concerns re: use-case gaps
15:08:03 but laura responded today and so awaiting follow through there
15:08:32 text sub-group supports Steve's work on Metagenerator
15:09:02 there is a new concerns around the generated content issues that emerged from the review process
15:09:20 but is a new issue that requires new exploration before something further can be done
15:09:44 MS: we *do* have the metagenerator issue on today's agenda
15:10:05 JB if questions do come up having Steve available is good
15:10:16 MS: next, media sub team?
15:10:32 JB: they have not been meeting of late, but are planning on reconvening
15:10:47 MS: yes, seems everything is under control there
15:11:02 MS: Cyns, any addition s around ARIA mapping of late?
15:11:05 Cyns: No
15:11:35 JB: looking to possibly move the text meeting time from Monday to Tuesday. Judy will be checking and will advise via the list
15:11:49 MS: is this to accomodate schedules?
15:11:52 JB: yes
15:12:11 MS: we also have the bug triage team. we will be looking at this in depth later on the call
15:12:22 MC: main thing is we have finished going through the whole list
15:12:44 we found some that were on the line, and have pointed them to the sub-teams
15:12:51 q+
15:12:58 others appeared fixed, but we are still watching them
15:13:10 ack janina
15:13:15 nest task is to look at the prioritization of the bugs in bugzilla
15:13:39 JS: was re-reading the current decision policy. Noted some points around escaaltion issues
15:13:45 q+ to mention chairs' response about requests from re-prioritizing of bugs
15:13:46 are we aware of that
15:14:12 MC: we are aware, and Mike Smith has discussed with chairs - will approach on a case-by-case basis
15:14:35 JS: I am reading that if the editor puts in a WONTFIX then the clock starts ticking
15:14:53 MC: that does not seem to be what the Chairs timeline states
15:15:03 MS: yes, we should look at that now
15:15:30 I believe the last escalation date is in Jan 2012
15:15:32 don't beleive there is any deadline set if moved to WONTFIX, unless there has been some change to the Decision policy
15:15:34 http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy.html
15:15:47 I agree with Michael Cooper.
15:15:52 -Mike
15:15:53 Jan 14 is the key date.
15:15:54 MC: my reading is next deadline is Jan. 14th for cutoof
15:16:01 JS: refer to Section 5
15:16:02 MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
15:16:27 [folks reviewing]
15:16:31 Zakim, call Mike
15:16:45 What document is Janina reviewing?
15:16:55 Zakim, call Mike
15:17:01 JB: Paul is noting that he agrees with MC
15:17:34 JS: perhaps I should be putting this into an email
15:17:42 Just give us the URL of the document - the decision-policy.html has no "section 5"
15:17:51 JB: Just want to be sure that we are not looking at an oldre version of the Decision polidy
15:18:26 See http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy-v2.html
15:18:28 +??P29
15:18:28 MC: I am looking at both versions (V1 & V2) and not seeing any dates in either
15:18:39 Zakim, ??P29 is me
15:18:39 +MikeSmith; got it
15:18:52 Zakim, mute me
15:18:53 MikeSmith should now be muted
15:18:55 http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/decision-policy-v2.html
15:19:48 JS: I will come back with this, as it did jump out at me
15:19:57 Zakim, drop me
15:19:57 MikeSmith is being disconnected
15:19:58 -MikeSmith
15:20:00 will review and readdress with a more targeted question
15:20:01 Zakim, call Mike
15:20:14 richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:20:16 Zakim, call Mike-goog
15:20:19 Schedule is documented in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Jun/0315.html
15:20:39 -Cynthia_Shelly
15:20:42 - Jan 14, 2012 - cutoff for escalating bugs for Last Call consideration - all Tracker Issues in Tracker, calls for proposal issued by this date
15:20:46 agenda?
15:21:00 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:21:03 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:21:23 zakim, take up agendum 1
15:21:23 agendum 1. "follow-up from last week on canvas status (Rich)" taken up [from JF]
15:21:38 Yes, mjs is back
15:21:48 RS: will likely need some advice here. Is Maciej back from vacation
15:22:05 +??P33
15:22:10 I need Macieij to review the focus-ring /clikcable regions
15:22:17 Zakim, ??P3 is me
15:22:17 +MikeSmith; got it
15:22:25 proposal. the question is
15:22:36 Sam asked if Rich wants to escalate this
15:22:48 but with vacation schedules there has been slow progresss
15:22:59 there is another bug around clickable regions
15:23:10 Ian dismissed it but likely just needs more infor
15:23:22 do we need to escalate that?
15:23:30 MS: not really sure
15:23:51 RS: I am getting conflicting questions
15:24:02 there is a defect - essentially hit-testing on canvas
15:24:18 s/I am/Rich is/
15:24:27 Ian closed it, but it's not sufficient
15:24:52 it's not, explained to Ian and it was reopened, then same responded with the Q- do you want to escalate this?
15:25:13 JB: this seems like a similar issue we had on the text team call as well
15:25:57 JB: if we risk a repeated open/close go 'round then perhaps we should escalate
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15:26:31 MS: hixie already clsed this, but then Rich responded with further clarrification, but hixie has not yet responded
15:26:41 so not sure if we need to act yet
15:27:20 MS: My understanding of the process is that we have the right to take the WONTFIX response and then escalate it
15:27:32 RS: I reopened it, should I escalate it?
15:27:41 MS: you are the one to make the call there
15:27:56 the criteria is whether you have a chance of changing hixie's mind or not
15:28:03 in this case, unsure
15:28:24 MS: but you do not have to wait to hear from him to escalate it however
15:29:01 If that is the case, revert it back to the editor's WONTFIX status and then tag with Issue Tracker
15:29:16 RS: that seems odd to do
15:29:31 MS: it is just you reverting it back to the original state of the response from the Editor
15:29:55 the other thing is that we can raise the priority of thie bug in hixies queue
15:30:04 that might be a better way to move this forward
15:30:11 ask the chairs to raise the priority
15:30:29 RS: there is that one, and there is another one around binding mouse-events
15:30:50 I have responded to hixie's request for more info, but have not heard from hixie
15:31:10 Sam asked if Rich wanted to escalate that one too, but there has been no responsce
15:31:41 MS: seems the best thing to do at this time is advise the chairs about this and ask for a quicker response
15:31:56 RS: Moz has indicated that they want to implement this
15:32:19 MS: this is important and significant info that needs to be brought forward
15:32:50 The two defects are:
15:33:00 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13176
15:33:05 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13181
15:33:34 MS: do think next step is to get on HTML WG call today
15:33:59 http://www.w3.org/2011/09/22-html-a11y-minutes.html
15:34:09 MS: Please do include the new info re: Moz's desire to implement
15:34:31 rrsagent, make logs public
15:34:33 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13391
15:34:41 ScrollElementIntoView
15:35:14 RS: discussed this with Jonas. If we implement this it gets applied to layout manager. So this can be closed
15:35:23 MS, this is what we need/want?
15:35:26 RS: yes
15:35:42 MS will follow with chairs on the other 2 bugs today
15:36:12 RS: really need Maciej to look at the CP Rich has authored
15:36:29 MS: will bring up those 3 things on today's call
15:36:35 q?
15:36:38 -Michael_Cooper
15:36:43 zakim, take up agendum2
15:36:43 agendum 2. "meta@name=generator alt-text CP (Steve)" taken up [from JF]
15:37:08 scribe: Rich
15:37:45 +Michael_Cooper
15:37:55 janina: the situation with the meta generator is not really the case. I am agreeing it is OK to have images without ALT
15:38:12 MichaelC has joined #html-a11y
15:38:23 janina: Reading Steve's Proposal ...
15:38:40 JF: I don' t think that is explicitly what Steve is saying
15:38:48 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposal/meta_name%3Dgenerator_does_not_make_missing_alt_conforming
15:39:03 JF: This is a serious issue as every CMS is generating a name value into their templates
15:39:25 JF: ... breaking images with alt images is being conformant
15:39:36 JF: role="presentation" is acceptable
15:40:00 JF: If you break this it is a free for all as the validators and meta generators would not be testing for alt text
15:40:21 Mike: The decision on the call should be whether we want to proceed with this change proposal
15:41:10 Judy: I am not sure if you are responding .... Are there still questions. If you and John are looking at this differently then we have a problem. We can't ask for task level support until this is respolved.
15:41:19 janina: I did re-read it
15:41:30 judy: I am proposing that we take it back into the sub team
15:41:46 janina: OK
15:41:56 scribe: JF
15:42:04 ye
15:42:15 zakim, take up agendum 3
15:42:15 agendum 3. "review bugzilla a11y-tf "needs info" bugs" taken up [from JF]
15:42:27 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=HTML+WG&keywords=a11ytf&bug_status=RESOLVED&resolution=NEEDSINFO
15:42:55 MS: these are important because nothing will change until we (or an individual) takes some action
15:43:26 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=7721
15:44:06 MC: propose that the most important ones are those not assigned to hixie
15:44:18 MS: there has been no discussion on this in over a year
15:44:33 last year hixie made significant changes to the D n D section
15:44:39 actually, the ones that *are* assigned to Ian are most important for us to look at because nobody is currently doing so
15:45:20 MS: asked Gez to re-review to see if the issues were addressed. Propose to close this with a comment
15:45:43 MC: assigned another D n D bug to Gez as well. agree this is stale but we need to be careful
15:46:35 MS: looking at the ones that MC suggested we prioritize
15:46:35 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8645
15:46:55 s/those not assigned to hixie/those assigned to hixie
15:48:52 MS: there are some specific questions there, so an action is to ensure specific responses are provided
15:49:00 MS: any volunteers?
15:49:34 MS: 2 specific questions asked
15:51:25 [MS reviewing the bug]
15:51:37 MS: this seems that this should be taken up by text team
15:51:47 JB: will bring it up on next call
15:51:57 MS: action on text team
15:52:04 MC: need a deligate
15:52:38 RS: label or aria-labeledby can also do the same thing
15:53:38 JB: will review and bring back to this group next week
15:53:53 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8885
15:54:21 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8644
15:54:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/66
15:55:00 action-66?
15:55:02 MS: given that Gez raised this, it would be good if he responded
15:55:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/90
15:55:14 action-90?
15:55:33 MS: note that 2 actions arose from this
15:56:11 MS: with trackbot down, cannot follow up on these actions at this time
15:56:31 MS: with only 5 minutes left, perhaps a quick review to highlight bigger issues
15:57:51 MS: we have 3 open bugs around ARIA integration, but we need to go though
15:58:11 unlikely that MS can provide the required info
15:58:23 although first one seems to be mostly editorial in nature
15:58:30 MC: can assign to me
15:58:36 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11891
15:58:38 MS: OK, sound good
15:58:42 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11892
15:58:47 Q+
15:58:49 http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11893
15:58:56 ack MikeSmith
15:58:56 MikeSmith, you wanted to mention chairs' response about requests from re-prioritizing of bugs
15:59:11 MS: these seem mostly editorial on nature. Hixie was something to point to
16:00:10 MS: we really need to focus on this list next week
16:00:17