IRC log of wai-wcag on 2011-09-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:57:20 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:20 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-wai-wcag-irc
19:57:22 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:57:22 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:24 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:57:24 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
19:57:25 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19:57:25 [trackbot]
Date: 15 September 2011
19:57:55 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2011JulSep/0159.html
19:57:59 [MichaelC]
regrets: Tim_Boland
19:58:06 [MichaelC]
chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:59:11 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
19:59:18 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
19:59:56 [Mary]
Mary has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:32 [Zakim]
+Mary_Utt
20:01:22 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
20:01:33 [Zakim]
+??P5
20:01:58 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P5 is Jon_Gunderson
20:01:58 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson; got it
20:02:03 [Zakim]
+Kathy_Wahlbin
20:02:33 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
20:02:42 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:02:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.502.580.aaaa
20:03:00 [kathy]
kathy has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:22 [MichaelC]
zakim, aaaa is Elle_Waters
20:03:22 [Zakim]
+Elle_Waters; got it
20:04:08 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:13 [jongund]
jongund has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:46 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
20:06:05 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:06:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, Mary_Utt, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jon_Gunderson, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Elle_Waters
20:06:08 [Zakim]
+??P10
20:06:21 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P10 is Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:06:21 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
20:06:23 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
20:06:34 [kathy]
zakim, mute me
20:06:34 [Zakim]
Kathy_Wahlbin should now be muted
20:07:03 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:12 [Zakim]
+Marc_Johlic
20:08:16 [marcjohlic]
scribe: marcjohlic
20:08:50 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2490: Excessive use of clicking to navigate a website
20:09:17 [kathy]
zakim, unmute me
20:09:17 [Zakim]
Kathy_Wahlbin should no longer be muted
20:10:29 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
20:10:46 [Zakim]
+Andrew_Kirkpatrick
20:11:11 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2493: T3: Using standard text formatting conventions for headings
20:11:21 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
20:11:43 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2551: H91, Example 6: 'selected' attribute
20:11:53 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
20:12:15 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2555: H91, Example 3: value attribute
20:12:28 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed
20:12:53 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2492: F60 may either apply also to SC 3.2.2 (On Input) or need further specification (context change announced/expected, window type)
20:13:06 [greggvanderheiden]
http://tinyurl.com/5rel6s6
20:13:11 [awk]
awk has joined #wai-wcag
20:13:18 [greggvanderheiden]
http://tinyurl.com/5rel6s6
20:18:03 [MichaelC]
action: detlev to create failure technique for SC 3.2.2 to address coment LC-2492
20:18:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-150 - Create failure technique for SC 3.2.2 to address coment LC-2492 [on Detlev Fischer - due 2011-09-22].
20:18:17 [MichaelC]
action-150?
20:18:18 [trackbot]
ACTION-150 -- Detlev Fischer to create failure technique for SC 3.2.2 to address coment LC-2492 -- due 2011-09-22 -- OPEN
20:18:18 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/150
20:21:48 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as amended
20:22:26 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2496: "should" vs "must"
20:25:47 [awk]
maybe in the non-normative documents we could link to the definition of these terms and tell people that they MUST read them...
20:26:20 [Loretta]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2011/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20110621/G141.html
20:27:39 [kathy]
zakim, mute me
20:27:39 [Zakim]
Kathy_Wahlbin should now be muted
20:28:00 [David]
100 musts in Techniques doc
20:43:19 [David]
1. Used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions: "he should have been careful".
20:43:21 [David]
2. Indicating a desirable or expected state: "by now students should be able to read".
20:56:06 [Loretta]
We have added a discussion of the uses of "must" and "should" in techniques to the introduction to the Techniques document. We hope that this will clarify interpretations of the techniques. "Must" and "should" are not used in a normative way in WCAG itself, and since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, the RFC 2119 definitions cannot be used in that context anyway. Please let us know whether this still leaves misinterpretations in our uses of these terms.
20:58:43 [Loretta]
Since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, "must" and "should" cannot be used as in the RFC 2119 definitions.
21:00:50 [David]
Since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, although "must" and "should" cannot are used as in the RFC 2119 definitions, it is not an exact mapping.
21:01:10 [David]
Since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, although "must" and "should" are used as in the RFC 2119 definitions, it is not an exact mapping.
21:02:16 [Loretta]
We use "must" and "should" in ways that are similar to RFC 2119, although since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, we cannot reference those definitions directly.
21:03:40 [Loretta]
We have added a discussion of the uses of "must" and "should" in techniques to the introduction to the Techniques document. We hope that this will clarify interpretations of the techniques. We use "must" and "should" in ways that are similar to RFC 2119, although since WCAG has 3 levels of conformance, we cannot reference those definitions directly. Please let us know whether this still leaves misinterpretations in our uses of these terms.
21:07:54 [greggvanderheiden]
We are not using RFC 2119 in our standard because it cannot be applied in a standard like our with 3 levels of conformance.
21:08:19 [David]
s/our/ours
21:09:14 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as modified
21:09:39 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2537: Reflow and Order panel can not guarantee the reading order
21:22:35 [awk]
Note: Reordering content with the reading order is most appropriate for simple text content within a PDF since modifications made with the order panel can affect not only the reading order but the underlying structure of content contained within the PDF. This may impact the z-order for content on a page, including making some content become hidden behind other content. Authors should save their work before using the order panel and verify that the changes do
21:24:37 [awk]
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/acrobat/pro/using/WS58a04a822e3e50102bd615109794195ff-7ce6.w.html
21:26:18 [awk]
Authors are encouraged to refer to the PDF technology notes (http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=PDF_Technology_Notes) for links to other resources for authoring and editing PDF documents for accessibility.
21:29:28 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Leaving open - assigned to Mary
21:30:47 [marcjohlic]
TOPIC: Issue LC-2546: Embedded Flash content
21:32:11 [marcjohlic]
RESOLUTION: Accepted as modified (Michael's addition and Gregg's note)
21:32:20 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
21:32:31 [Zakim]
-Andrew_Kirkpatrick
21:32:33 [Zakim]
-Elle_Waters
21:32:34 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:32:36 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
21:32:37 [Zakim]
-Marc_Johlic
21:32:38 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:32:39 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
21:32:39 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
21:32:40 [Zakim]
-Kathy_Wahlbin
21:33:14 [MichaelC]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:33:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Mary_Utt
21:33:18 [MichaelC]
zakim, drop mary
21:33:18 [Zakim]
Mary_Utt is being disconnected
21:33:19 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
21:33:21 [Zakim]
Attendees were Michael_Cooper, Mary_Utt, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Jon_Gunderson, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, +1.502.580.aaaa, Elle_Waters, Gregg_Vanderheiden,
21:33:24 [Zakim]
... Marc_Johlic, Andrew_Kirkpatrick
21:33:26 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:33:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
21:35:05 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
21:35:05 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
21:35:05 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: detlev to create failure technique for SC 3.2.2 to address coment LC-2492 [1]
21:35:05 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2011/09/15-wai-wcag-irc#T20-18-03
21:35:10 [MichaelC]
zakim, bye
21:35:10 [Zakim]
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